The Ontic Connected Intelligence Podcast

Alana Forrest started her 29-year public service career in 1983 at the Palo Alto Police Department and rose through the ranks to Lieutenant. Forrest was promoted to the position of Captain by joining the Los Gatos/Monte Sereno Police Department in 2000 and retired in 2012. She has spent the last 11 years in corporate security and currently leads Global Safety and Security at Intuit. She is a proud co-founder of the California Women Leaders in Law Enforcement Symposium, which began as a local partnership in 2006 and is now endorsed by multiple law enforcement associations with a national following.

Forrest joins host Dr. Marisa Randazzo to discuss:

• The impact of mentoring on her career and the motivation behind starting the Women Leaders in Law Enforcement Foundation.
• The role of storytelling and connecting on a personal level to demonstrate security’s value to other areas of an organization.
• Advice for women/girls pursuing a career in protection.

Key takeaways:

[08:38] Marisa Randazzo: I just think it's so important — the value of mentorship. But it's often difficult to figure out how to get started, so the details that you're sharing here are very helpful. I want to ask a follow-up question about the California Women Leaders in Law Enforcement Symposium. Who is it open to? 

[09:14] Alana: It's open to anyone. It's not just women but anyone in active law enforcement and retirees can also attend. We're trying to just open up the floodgates and allow anybody who wants to come to join us in California every year. It's been one of the proudest accomplishments in my career — to establish this and have it still be so successful.

[15:53] Marisa Randazzo: It sounds like what your foundation now your symposium did was give people up a place for that colleagueship, especially from those smaller departments when they didn't have it in-house necessarily but they could still access. That same level of connection and advice and commiseration just from outside their department but still within the industry. That's phenomenal.

[16:16] Alana: Yeah, absolutely and even now unfortunately in the 2000s and here we are in 2023 — we still hear similar stories of challenges that we heard in the 1980s and 90s. So it really does provide an opportunity and a forum for people who are really struggling to get some much needed support. It's kind of sad that we are still having some of these conversations. But at least there's support there.

[17:53] Alana: One of the things that I've really tried to do when I first enter any organization is build those relationships and find the right people to talk to — who's in charge of what but also who are the team players that have leadership qualities that you can tell are the people that get things done or has the leadership's ear. Seek out those people to get by your side and have lunch or coffee and have a discussion — what are your pain points with global safety and security or at the security team? 

[20:51] Alana: I've been in where data really drives the conversation and so I think any sort of data points or storytelling [help in displaying value]. Tell the stories to let people know exactly what's going On. As people started to come back to work I would take people through our Global Security Operations Center and let them see what we do because people really don't have ah an understanding of how much work we do to keep them safe behind the scenes. So when they walk into that room and they see all the monitors and they see all the people and all the activity and I explain what we're doing and how we keep them safe, that is a huge win. 

[33:36] Alana: You know one of the things I'll emphasize is again — finding those mentors and those champions and building relationships is so important. I didn't get to any promotion or any position in my private sector career without the benefit of a relationship or a connection that I cultivated. And also just being willing to be helpful to anyone who reaches out for questions.

Greg joins host Fred Burton to discuss:

• Why the importance of human intelligence prevails all in a technology-dominant business culture.
• Trends in anti-semitic crimes that Battle Tested Solutions helps address and how Greg separates true threats from the noise of activity in the space.
• Being prepared for the unexpected events that happen when protecting principals abroad.
• His biggest lessons learned from his time in the Israel Defense Forces.

Dr. Wheat joins host Chuck Randolph to discuss:

• The game-changing role of red teaming in organizations and how, through alternate analysis and critical thinking, to think from the perspective of the attacker.
• How diverse thinking results in better decisions and aids in the elimination of biases.
• Where analysts can start when implementing a red teaming strategy.
• The role of red teaming in helping security teams partner with business leaders to help their organizations thrive.

Key takeaways from the episode:

[03:04] Treston Wheat: Critical thinking is fundamental to the ability to check assumptions the ability to be objective and separate the person from the analysis. The willingness to question dominant ideas (is a key element to red teaming). So everything that made me a really bad academic actually made me a really good red teamer.

[03:44] Treston Wheat: We do something we call poison circles where we basically just come up with ways to attack people. Which sounds a little dark but is very very useful. Because then we have to think through the threat actors and what's their motivation and if they're motivated by — what kind of TTP do they use? How would they behave in a violent situation? How would they behave if they're trying to steal intellectual property?

[06:05] Treston Wheat: My job is doing the research on how a left-wing terrorist would behave differently than a right-wing terrorist because most people when they look at terrorism, they say terrorism is terrorism. They actually all have very different targeting patterns.

[08:32] Chuck: If you're you're working on an objective and you want to understand what is the potential threat actors' activity or actions … How do you start this process? Where does critical thinking start? Walk me through your protocol.

[09:01] Treston Wheat: So the way I start with a threat actor...You go to what they actually say about themselves, because too often in analysis we don't really believe what people tell us even though they're telling us the truth.

[12:56] Treston Wheat: And that's why you need people to come in. It's why diversity of thought is so important for a red team. You need people who actually see the world differently than you do rather than all of us coming from the military or all of us coming from Academia — breaking up groupthink. One of the most important parts of red teaming and acknowledging the bias and heuristics.

[15:14] Chuck: We could be talking about a business function. We could be talking about terrorism. We could be talking about an event — multiple things — to say look I just need someone to give me an alternative thought on this because, at the end of the day, we want to enable business decision makers with options or courses of action that have some facts around them so they can make a decision.

[15:38] Treston Wheat: Which is the entire point of Intel analysis and red teaming is to help our business leaders in particular because we do this for the private sector to make better decisions so that their business thrives.

[21:28] Chuck: You know people are listening right now and thinking this is fascinating I need to use this more in my organization I'm a leader — I'm a team leader, or I'm an analyst where do I start?

[21:48] Treston Wheat: So I think there are two key ways for people to start who don't do analysis regularly and for an analyst I would say something a little bit different. But if you're not used to doing this number one start applying it to your own life. So anytime you make a decision, walk through your process — the entire process. I recommend writing it down because I just think it's always helpful. What is my assumption in this decision? Why did I perceive what this person said or the information I took in that way?

Number two I believe in the use of fiction — reading novels and watching movies and then analyzing them because it gives you an entire plot wrapped up. It's a very useful technique to read novels and watch movies and then analyze them. You don't just passively consume them.

Want to hear more? Listen to the full episode here.

Dean Baratta has been an intelligence analyst for the majority of his 35 year career and joins the podcast to discuss practical steps for front-line intelligence analysts to communicate risk to their organizations, so that when things happen suddenly, they can maintain their security posture. His expertise spans the military, government, and private sectors. He currently works as the Director of Intelligence and Protective Services for a private company. Prior to his current role, he served as the Chief of the Analysis Bureau at the New Jersey Office of Homeland Security and Preparedness, and an adjunct professor at Rutgers University. He is a retired veteran of the United States Army. 

In his conversation with host Chuck Randolph they discuss:

• How intel analysts can be constructively disruptive and fulfill their responsibility of mitigating risk and ensuring the organization is set up for success.
• The importance of paying attention to the business of government and how it impacts their organization.
• How to react when the response from leadership is ‘it’s not a big deal’ and the most important asset to have when sharing mitigating risk recommendations.
• Helpful tips for leaders to support analysts dealing with risk fatigue.

Melissa Muir is the Director of Human Resources and Organizational Development for the City of Shoreline. She is committed to building strategic partnerships between security and HR to reduce threats and strengthen the health and safety of our organizations and has been a leader in the Association of Threat Assessment Professionals (ATAP) for more than a decade. 

Nici McLean is a Regional Director of Human Resources & Administration at GardaWorld Security Services where she oversees more than 20 managers and coordinators as well as  2200+ security guards. Her training extends to emergency management, crisis intervention, and de-escalation, and she works closely with the leadership team on strategic development and applying quality management principles. 

Melissa Muir and Nici McLean join host Dr. Marisa Randazzo to discuss:

• How “curiosity instead of judgment” can lead to silo-busting conversations.
• Common obstacles experienced by security and HR professionals when attempting to collaborate and how to fix them.
• How HR can be used as a resource to approach difficult conversations that can easily be misinterpreted or seen as overly confrontational.
• Why employee engagement is directly related to incidents of workplace violence.

Mike has four decades of law enforcement experience. He began his career with the Little Rock Police Department and spent twenty-six years with the U.S. Secret Service. Fifteen years of his career were focused on conducting behavioral threat assessments of those threatening to engage in targeted violence. Mike was also assigned as the Intelligence Liaison to the FBI and CIA Headquarters and was assigned to the Joint Terrorism Task Force. He is the author of four novels, a nonfiction work on rapport building, and Mass Killers: How you can identify workplace, school, or public killers before they strike.

Tune in to this episode to hear about:

• His early career with the Little Rock Police Department and how it taught him the impact of forming strong alliances with both federal partners and local law enforcement.
• How his latest novel helps readers identify concerning behavior before an attack happens by using threat assessment methodologies.
• Why the ‘barking dog’ theory cannot be overlooked — threats that we don’t always see are oftentimes the most dangerous to us.
• The evolution of violence over the last decade and what he sees on the horizon.

In this episode, you’ll hear from Chief Security Officers, analysts, and legal experts to learn how they’ve navigated this challenge — earning internal buy-in and fostering a sense of trust with stakeholders. To hear more from the guests featured in this special round-up episode, check out their full recordings here:

Anticipating Risk on a Global Scale from Salesforce’s Strategic Intelligence Team (Lewis Sage-Passant, Global Strategic Intelligence Manager)

Identifying Operational Risk to Empower a Risk-Taking Culture (Adam Cambridge, Manager of Enterprise Risk Intelligence at MITRE)

The Intersection of Privacy, Compliance, and Security — Why a Unified Front Minimizes Risk (Karen Moore, Chief Compliance and Privacy Officer at Unisys)

How to Get in Front of Threats at a Global Scale from Verizon’s CSO (Dan Maloney, Chief Security Officer and Senior Vice President of Global Corporate Security with Verizon Communications)

What Does Your C-Suite Need to Know? The Role of Data-Informed Decisions in Corporate Security (Ken White, Expedia Group’s Senior Manager of Physical Risk, Intelligence, & Investigations)

The Value of Storytelling to Prove Security’s Company-Wide Impact (Jim Bernhardt, Corporate Security Leader at the Nikola Motor Company)

Why an Objective-Centric Security Strategy Matters (Bruce McIndoe, President of McIndoe Risk Advisory, Co-Founder of iJET International)

Running Towards Fire — How to Mitigate Threats for Journalists in High-Risk Areas (Matt Bohatch, Director of Global Corporate Security and Site Operations for The Washington Post)

Think Like an Intelligence Analyst – Deciding What Matters and How to Share It (Sandy Perez, Lead Intelligence Analyst for Alcon)

Thank you for listening to Ontic’s Protective Intelligence Podcast. Please subscribe to hear our future episodes. If you have any suggestions for guests, email us at [email protected].

Christine joins Women Who Protect to discuss: 

• A day in the life of managing incidents, investigations and case management.
• How she went about establishing a new case management process. 
• Why she’s passionate about leaning into metrics and reporting to communicate the value of her corporate investigations program to senior leaders.
• Her previous role as the Co-Case Agent for the U.S. Department of Justice's first conviction of a fatal cyberstalking investigation.

Jack is a former Navy SEAL who led special operations teams as a Team Leader, Platoon Commander, Troop Commander, and Task Unit Commander. Over his 20 years in Naval Special Warfare, he transitioned from an enlisted SEAL sniper all the way to commanding a Special Operations Task Unit in the most Iranian-influenced section of southern Iraq throughout the tumultuous drawdown of U.S. Forces. Jack retired from active duty in 2016 and lives with his wife and three children in Park City, Utah. He is the author of The Terminal List, True Believer, Savage Son, The Devil’s Hand, In the Blood, and Only the Dead, his most recent novel available now wherever books are sold.

Jack returns to the podcast to catch up with Fred Burton to discuss:

• Where his latest novel, Only the Dead, fits into the James Reece series and why it is hailed as his finest work yet
• Questions from the audience ranging from how he approaches writing to the future of his series 
• The best advice he’s received in his writing career

Peter Evans, CEO of Xtract One Technologies, leads his company around this model, and in his role he is devoted to advancing the physical security technology industry. Xtract is a leading technology-driven threat detection and security solution that uses unobtrusive threat detection systems to enable venues to deliver improved experiences while providing unprecedented safety.  

Peter joins host Chuck Randolph to discuss:

• How Xtract’s customer-based model drives insights and minimizes risk
• The evolution of event security and why it’s not a one size fits all model
• The value of technology in maximizing resources and improving the patron experience