The Art of Manliness

We live in a world of pervasive noise. Even when we're alone and our surroundings are quiet, our devices bombard us with an endless stream of inputs — messages, news, opinions, entertainment — and we feel constantly connected.

My guest argues that this lack of both silence and solitude isn't just generating stress and fragmenting our attention, but doing real damage to our souls. 

His name is John Mark Comer, and he’s a pastor and the author of Into the Quiet. Today on the show, we discuss what noise is doing to the deepest parts of us and how engaging in silence and solitude can help us cultivate inner stillness. We explore the monastic tradition behind these spiritual disciplines, why engaging in them can sometimes feel like a negative experience, and what happens when all our usual distractions disappear. We also get into simple ways to bring more quiet into everyday life.

After the show’s over, check out the show notes at aom.is/silence.

Resources Related to the Podcast

• Get the Book: Into the Quiet
• John Mark's previous appearance on the AoM podcast: Episode #1,013 — Practicing Spiritual Disciplines as an Act of Resistance
• John Mark's Previous Book: Practicing the Way
• AoM Article: The Spiritual Disciplines — Solitude and Silence
• Clear Creek Abbey in OK
• New Camaldoli Hermitage in Big Sur
• A Time to Keep Silence by Patrick Leigh Fermor

Connect With John Mark Comer

• John Mark's website

0:00 Introduction

1:33 What Prompted "Into the Quiet"

5:42 Soundless Noise in the Digital Age

7:39 What Noise Does to Our Souls

11:02 Loneliness vs. Solitude

13:57 Cultivating Inner Stillness

19:02 The Eremos: Jesus' Practice of Solitude

23:58 The Desert Fathers & Monastic Tradition

29:06 What Happens in the Silence

39:17 Confronting Inner Demons in Solitude

47:36 Practical Ways to Practice Silence & Solitude

51:47 Outro

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Modern life is filled with conveniences designed to make things easier. We can order dinner without leaving the couch, check ourselves out at the grocery store, communicate instantly with anyone, and stream nearly every movie and song ever made.

So why do we often feel busier, more stressed, and more, well, inconvenienced than ever?

My guest today argues that many supposed advancements don’t actually save us time, money, or energy — and that even when they do, they can eliminate forms of friction that made life richer, more enjoyable, and more human.

His name is Gabe Bullard, and he’s the author of Against Convenience. Today on the show, Gabe and I discuss how self-checkout, mobile ordering, digital communication, streaming services, food delivery, and even smartphone cameras can paradoxically make life more annoying and less satisfying. Gabe also shares questions to ask yourself to decide which conveniences are worth keeping, and why deliberately adding a little friction back into your life can sometimes make it better.

0:00 Introduction

1:45 Why Convenience Isn't Working

4:22 Self-Checkout & Starbucks App Failures

11:29 The Illusion of Technological Progress

17:28 Phones as a Single Point of Failure

18:20 How Digital Communication Hurts Relationships

23:49 Dating Apps & Making Friends

27:15 Smartphone Cameras & the Value of Photos

32:41 Streaming & Entertainment Disappointment

40:10 Food Delivery Problems

46:30 Wendell Berry's Questions for New Tech

50:12 Practical Tips for Embracing Friction

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We all have things we’ve always wanted to know how to do, but have never gotten around to learning. Speak a foreign language. Play an instrument. Write a book. Take up surfing. Maybe you’ve even started one of these pursuits a few times, only to drop it after a couple of weeks.

My guest calls this collection of abandoned or deferred desires your “invisible list” and is the author of a book of the same name.

Today on the show, Ravi Gupta presents a plan for tackling the things on your invisible list by picking one hobby-like activity each year and working your way to an intermediate level in it. He explains the different categories these pursuits can fall into, from the liftoff project to the mental marathon to the skillbatical, and how to pick the right one for your season of life. We also discuss how camps for grownups can make skill acquisition more enjoyable, why you should consider taking up an adult-appropriate sport like tennis, why Ravi decided to take the MCAT even though he doesn't plan to become a doctor, and how working on your invisible list can give your life chapters and, over the course of a decade, turn you into a Renaissance-man badass.

After the show is over, check out the show notes at aom.is/invisiblelist

0:00 — Introduction

1:45 — What is the Invisible List?

4:38 — Examples & Bucket List Comparison

8:46 — Why a Year Creates Life Chapters

11:10 — Making Time: Family & Constraints

15:44 — Five Rules of the Invisible List

18:39 — Why Aim for Intermediate?

21:19 — The Five Archetypes

26:50 — Liftoff Year: Powerlifting & Journaling

37:30 — Skill-Batical: Surfing & Adult Camps

43:17 — Age-Appropriate Sports: Tennis

45:46 — Mental Marathon: Taking the MCAT

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When people are faced with problems and complexity, our instinct is to add instead of subtract. As a result, we have a tendency to make our work and our lives more and more complex, and less and less effective and fulfilling. Even when what we add is new technology that promises to make us more productive, it often only seems to bog us down and give us even more to do.

My guest says that to fight this drift toward complexity, especially in the modern age, you’ve got to be ruthless about cutting out the superfluous and focusing on what’s most important. His name is Jim VandeHei, and he’s the co-founder and CEO of Axios and the co-author of Simplify.

Today on the show, Jim explains how to simplify your work and personal life using a three-step process: confront, delete, and amplify. We discuss how to identify the “slop” we’re all inundated with (and he’s not just talking about what’s generated by AI), rules of thumb for what to say no to, why you should spend more time developing your strengths than fixing your weaknesses, and the importance of getting clear on what you want out of life, both personally and professionally.

Resources Related to the Podcast

• Jim's Book: Simplify: Do 50 Percent More with 50 Percent Less
• Jim's last appearance on the AoM podcast: Episode #987 — The No-BS Secrets of Success
• Smart Brevity: The Power of Saying More with Less
• AoM Article: The Spiritual Disciplines — Simplicity
• AoM Podcast #699: The No-Nonsense Guide to Simplifying Every Aspect of Your Life

Connect With Jim VandeHei

• Jim at Axios

0:00 Introduction & Website Redesign

0:48 The Problem with Complexity

1:56 Interview Begins: Why Another Book on Simplifying?

3:00 How AI Makes Life More Complex

5:42 The Confront, Delete, Amplify Framework

8:14 Why Complexity Creeps Into Everything

11:35 Identifying Slop in Work and Life

17:43 How to Confront Your Habits

24:59 Rules for Saying No

29:48 Amplify Strengths Over Weaknesses

37:35 Simplifying Communication at Work

42:29 Using AI to Simplify Your Life

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When Mark Hertling learned he was deploying for Operation Desert Storm, he decided to start a journal.

Back then, Mark was an Army major and cavalry officer with two young sons. His unit would be out in front of the main force, and during an intelligence briefing, he was told it could suffer casualties as high as 50 percent. Mark realized there was a real chance he might not come home. So he began writing down what he was experiencing, along with the lessons about life, leadership, and character that he wanted his boys to know if he wasn’t there to teach them himself.

Mark did come home, and went on to serve 38 years in the Army, including as an assistant division commander in Baghdad and later commander of the 1st Armored Division in Iraq during the 2007–2008 surge, before finishing his career as commander of U.S. Army Europe.

Decades later, that wartime journal became the basis for his new book, If I Don’t Return. Today on the show, retired three-star General Mark Hertling and I talk about the reflections it contains on making every day count, planning for friction, marriage and friendship, handwritten notes, casual profanity, the moral weight of war, and what it means to build a man.

Resources Related to the Podcast

• My Life
• On War by Carl von Clausewitz
• AoM Article: Clausewitz on Overcoming the Annoying Slog of Life
• General Douglas MacArthur’s Prayer for His Son

Connect With Mark Hertling

• Mark on LinkedIn
• Mark's faculty page

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Professor of psychology Angela Duckworth is famous for her work on grit — the combination of passion and perseverance that leads to high achievement. But she’s come to an increasing appreciation for the fact that success isn't just a matter of the qualities inside you; it's also driven by what's outside you — your peers, your mentors, and even your zip code.

Today on the show, Angela, whose latest book is Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best, shares how our environments play a much bigger role in shaping us than we realize. She explains the three-box model of behavior, why relying on willpower is a fallible strategy for altering your habits, and why the most effective way to change yourself is to change what’s around you. We discuss how different situations bring out different versions of ourselves and how to shape your surroundings to encourage good habits, mitigate bad ones, and become who you want to be — whether that means rearranging what’s on your desk or moving across the country.

Resources Related to the Podcast

• Angela's previous appearance on the AoM podcast: Episode #210 — Got Grit?
• AoM Podcast #887: The Golden Rules of Success With Bob Bowman 
• AoM Podcast #1,023: Is Self-Control Overrated? With Michael Inzlicht
• Dying Breed Article: The Power of "I Like," or Why Do People Hate the Idea of Motivation?
• AoM Article: Alexander Graham Bell’s Secret to Greater Productivity
• AoM Article: The Ceiling Word Art of Michel de Montaigne

Connect With Angela Duckworth

• Angela's website
• Angela's faculty page
• Angela on LinkedIn
• Angela on IG

0:00 Introduction

1:42 From Grit to Situated

4:18 Michael Phelps: Grit Meets Environment

8:43 The Three-Box Model Explained

12:28 Why Willpower Fails

19:18 Multiple Selves & Code Switching

26:30 Saving a Marriage Through Situational Change

31:51 Curating Your Physical Space

38:26 Shaping Your Digital Environment

43:14 Social Environment & Accountability

47:05 Culture, Microcultures & the Flywheel

53:15 Start With Situational Awareness

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The ancient Greeks believed the human soul had three parts: reason, appetite, and something called thumos. Thumos is difficult to translate into English. It encompasses anger, noble spiritedness, pride, ambition, a sense of honor, and the drive to act. The Greeks thought it was essential to living a life of manly virtue, and my guest thinks we could use a lot more of it.

His name is Mike LeBlanc, and he’s a decorated Marine, a Harvard Business School grad, a tech founder, and the author of What If Anger Is the Answer? Today on the show, Mike and I discuss how the angry energy of thumos can help you close the gap between who you are and who you should be. We discuss why physical training helps cultivate thumos, how it can be an aid in overcoming appetites, overthinking, passivity, and cynicism, and the role it can play in being an effective leader.

Resources Related to the Podcast

• AoM Article: Got Thumos?
• AoM Article: 10 Movies That Inspire Thumos
• AoM Article: Soundtrack for Your Thumos
• AoM Article: How to Make Anger Your Ally
• AoM Podcast #1,083: Good Anger — Harnessing a Misunderstood Emotion
• AoM Series: The Life of Jack London as a Case Study in the Power and Perils of Thumos

Connect With Mike LeBlanc

• Mike's website
• Mike on LinkedIn

0:00 Introduction

1:42 Meet Mike LeBlanc: Marines, Great Books & Robotics

5:45 A Letter to His Son: What It Means to Be a Man

8:07 Socrates' Metaphor: The Little Man, the Hydra & the Lion

15:26 The Attributes of Thumos: Dignity, Pride & Shame

17:36 Thumos and Action: The Soul's Three Parts at Work

20:19 Thumos in Defending Boundaries

25:31 Thumos and the Physical Body

31:36 Thumos vs. Overthinking: The 70% Solution

36:03 Thumos, Power & Authority in Leadership

44:42 Overcoming Cynicism with Thumos

49:46 Raising Boys with Thumos & Where to Find the Book

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Note: This is a rebroadcast.

Have you ever known one of those people who seemed to be able to connect with anyone? The kind of person who had the ability to make others feel understood and smoothly navigate even the trickiest of conversations?

Charles Duhigg calls these folks “supercommunicators,” and he’s the author of a new book by the same name. Today on the show, Charles explains that what underlies supercommunicators’ skill in connection is something called the matching principle, and he unpacks how it works and how you can put it to use in your own conversations. We discuss several techniques for how to figure out what kind of conversation you’re having, so you can align your language and energy with the other person. And because emotional conversations can be particularly difficult, we dig into tactics for successfully navigating them, even when they contain a high degree of conflict. We also get into how to carry the skills of connection into your digital conversations.

Resources Related to the Podcast

• Charles’ previous appearances on the AoM podcast:
• Episode #61: The Power of Habit
• Episode #196: The Science of Self-Motivation & Productivity
• AoM Podcast #559: How to Handle Difficult Conversations

Connect With Charles Duhigg

• Charles’ website

0:00 — Intro & Rebroadcast Notice

0:32 — Why Communication Matters

2:08 — The Matching Principle

5:07 — Deep Questions & FBI Negotiator Felix Sigala

9:50 — Identifying What Kind of Conversation You're Having

10:52 — Setting Goals & Preparing for Conversations

15:06 — Conversations as Quiet Negotiations

19:07 — Navigating Emotional Conversations

24:11 — Turning Shallow Questions Into Deep Questions

28:00 — Mood, Energy & NASA's Emotional Intelligence Test

32:34 — Looping for Understanding & High-Conflict Conversations

38:38 — Digital Communication & Closing

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Remember the old hotel ice machines? The kind where you'd slide your bucket under the chute and hear the avalanche of cubes crashing into it? There was something so fun and strangely gratifying about that thing.

Or think about breaking an icicle off the edge of a roof. Such a gratifying feeling from such a small act.

My guest has written an ode to the outsized pleasures that arise from these kinds of everyday interactions with the physical world. His name is Ian Bogost, and his new book is The Small Stuff. Today on the show, Ian argues that a fulfilling life isn't built solely by chasing the big components of happiness but also by embracing the small moments of gratification that are woven throughout ordinary life. We discuss how those moments can be found in tactile experiences like shifting a manual transmission, turning a well-made knob, or flipping through the pages of a real menu. We explore how these small opportunities for engagement — for contact, connection, and control— have been disappearing as the world becomes more digitized and automated and everything becomes a touchscreen. And Ian shares how opportunities for "sensory enchantment" can still be found in our increasingly dematerialized world.

Resources Related to the Podcast

• Ian's previous appearance on the AoM Podcast: Episode #247 — The Pleasure of Limits, the Uses of Boredom, and the Antidote to Excessive Irony
• Ian's Atlantic article "The End of Manual Transmission"
• Andy Rooney compilation

Connect With Ian Bogost

• The Small Stuff website
• Ian's website
• Ian's faculty page

0:00 Introduction

0:40 Ian Bogost and 'The Small Stuff'

2:25 What Kickstarted This Book

6:38 Happiness, Satisfaction, and Gratification

14:58 Gratification Is Everywhere — But Disappearing

18:28 Dematerialization: How the World Is Losing Sensory Richness

26:41 How Work Has Become Less Gratifying

33:09 How to Reclaim Your Sensory Life

38:35 Keep More Junk Around

44:38 Talk About Small Pleasures

48:17 Living Life Sideways (Orthogonality)

50:03 Wrap-Up

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People are told their whole lives how important it is to find their purpose. But many find the search frustrating. They feel there's one true calling or one grand goal they're supposed to be pursuing, but they can't seem to discern what it is.

My guest, Jordan Grumet, author of The Purpose Code, says that searching for what he calls your big P purpose can be fruitless and even harmful, and that a better path is to embrace a life of little p purposes. Today on the show, Jordan explains the difference between big P and little p purposes and argues that the former can lead to anxiety while embracing the latter can be the path to meaning, satisfaction, connection, and even the legacy you were looking for in the first place. We discuss how Jordan found his way to this philosophy after burning out as a doctor, practical ways to discover your own little p purposes, what he thinks we get wrong in making family our purpose, and what his work in hospice has taught him about living a life without regret.

Connect With Jordan Grumet

• Jordan's website
• Jordan's Substack: The Purpose Code

 00:00 Intro & Show Overview

0:41 Meet Jordan Grumet

1:46 From Doctor to Purpose Writer

5:00 Big P vs Little P Purpose

8:32 Why Purpose Talk Makes People Anxious

11:15 What the Research Says

13:42 Burnout and Big P Purpose

16:18 The Podcasting Example: Process vs Goals

19:42 Legacy Through Little P Purpose

28:24 Finding Your Purpose Anchors

38:01 The Climb: Building Your Purpose

43:14 Family, Regrets, and Final Thoughts

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