“How do you take what you have and analogize, and tie some new radical thing that you don't have but you want to insert into the tradition? This entire passage is part of the instruction manual! This is some new twist of creativity, a twist of imagination.”  - Benay Lappe

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

Benay & Dan turn to another essential Talmud text, the origins of Pikuach Nefesh, the teaching that we can and should break (almost) any commandment in order to save a life. What we find is that while the Mishnah has no qualms about giving clear examples of life-saving actions we can take on Shabbat, the Gemara wants some textual support for violating what is so clearly written in Torah. In this discussion we get into all of the explanations except for the final one, the one that tradition ends up hanging this law on.  

What values can we recognize in the Rabbis? Which of them do we want to maintain in the next version of Judaism? When do we want to emulate the ways in which the sages sold the people on radical new ideas? When the Talmud quotes seven different sages giving seven different answers for a halakhic question, what’s going on there? One-upsmanship? Intentional absurdism? A meta teaching about how to develop new foundations for tradition? How do we see these arguments playing out in court cases in our own time? Speaking from 2020, Dan & Benay end up devastatingly prophetic in their discussion of the fragile foundations of Roe v. Wade and abortion laws… The discussion continues next week!

This week’s text: “Pikuach Nefesh” (Yoma 83a & 85a/b)

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes (references and further reading) on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“Ultimately the only way that you actually take these lessons into your soul is through trying to implement it in your actual life. And often that's gonna be failure!“ - Dan Libenson

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

Dan & Benay return to the daf after a series of interviews, picking up where we left off in Episode 19, exploring where the editors of the Talmud went next after the famous “Eilu v’Eilu” moment between the Schools of Shammai and Hillel. While they were both decreed to be “Words of the Living God” (or some arrangement of those words), the halakha was said to be decided according to Beit Hillel because they taught the teachings of Beit Shammai before their own. 

But the very next line in the Talmud - which is rarely ever read - seems to undercut the entire message of this practice! Were we making too big a deal about Beit Hillel? Did the editor of this part of the Talmud misunderstand something? Are they intentionally undermining the first narrative? What do we do when we encounter texts that appear to reverse the radical potential we had seen in them before? And what is going on when Talmud brings in aphorism and folk sayings? Are they really able to help us recognize when we’re messing up? How can we offer and receive the loving rebuke of tokhecha? 

This week’s text: “Hillel & Shammai: After Elu v’Elu” (Eruvin 13b)

Find an edited transcript and full show notes (references and further reading) on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“Part of what I love about Talmud is that even if you're just listening, there's so many gaps, so many rough edges, so many places that don't quite fit together. There're all these holes and you, the reader, burrow into those holes. You find your nook, your cranny, your space, your neek’rat ha’tzur. And it's the nature of the discourse that has you do that. I don't think it's possible to learn this text passively!”  - Ilana Kurshan

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

This week Dan & Benay learn with special guest Ilana Kurshan, author of the award-winning “If All the Seas Were Ink: A Memoir” (2017) through the lens of Daf Yomi, the practice of studying a whole page of Talmud each day. Ilana Kurshan has worked in literary publishing both in New York and in Jerusalem as a translator and foreign rights agent, and as the books editor of Lilith Magazine. Since our interview, she has published, “Children of the Book: A Memoir of Reading Together” (2025) about raising kids and a love of books.

Long-time listeners of The Oral Talmud will have picked up on split opinions between Dan & and Benay regarding the practice of Daf Yomi, and Ilana joins perfectly suited to plead the case for this fast-paced daily learning! What’s at stake in different methods of Talmud study? How can a reader avoid giving up when the Talmud gets boring? How can we find additional excitement when starting a new masechet (tractate/volume)? What are the unique benefits and spiritual opportunities of Daf Yomi? What happens when we bring our own literary and background interests as lenses to Talmud? And, in the end, how can we avoid a passive learning position in Daf Yomi (or in any method of study) and always ensure that our learning is empowering?

For this episode, we’d like to remind listeners, that every episode exists as an unedited video recording from our first broadcast in 2020. Ilana is a very animated guest! (Find this episode on YouTube)

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“I want activist reads to also be responsible reads, which is why I’m so committed to people being anchored and being able to actually read these classical texts.” - Jane Kanarek

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

This week Dan & Benay learn with special guest Professor Jane Kanarek of Hebrew College Rabbinical School, author of “Biblical Narrative and the Formation of Rabbinic Law” (2014), “The Pedagogy of Slowing Down: Teaching Talmud in a Summer Kollel” (2010), and “Throwing the Talmud Across the Room: Emotions and the Cultivation of Subjectivity in Talmud Study” (2025, via Taylor & Francis). Jane Kanarek joins the Oral Talmud to discuss her understand of what the sages were doing in constructing the Talmud, and her pedagogic values in building a Rabbinic School classroom. 

What are the Rabbis doing with the Book of Genesis when they transform stories into law, especially when it comes to the most shocking narratives? What is the Rabbis’ relationship to Torah, especially in the moments that we’ve labeled them as misquoting torah in past episodes of The Oral Talmud? What evidence do we actually have for the Rabbis’ relationship to God and Talmud, beyond the winking? Why do we teach Talmud, and what are our goals for our students? How can a thoughtful teacher incorporate secondary texts as new commentaries for helping students develop lenses to read the Talmud through? What comes to the surface when we really slow down our learning?

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“Opinions that are contradictory to one another, the opposite of one another are both the words of God.” - Dan Libenson

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

This episode is dedicated to beloved Talmud translator Rabbi Adin Steinsaltz who passed in 2020, in the days before recording this episode. After honouring his life, Dan and Benay return to learning the deeply radical daf Eruvin 13. (For background, listen to Episodes 12, 13, and 15.) The legend of Rabbi Meir asks us to think about the qualities of the Talmud’s ideal person, how they think and lead in the world. Today we explore how this question comes alive in the relationship between the early rabbinic Schools of Shammai and Hillel, in the famous “Elu v’Elu” story!

What is the relationship between translation, access, and the joy of figuring it all out? How important is it to notice which Divine Names the Talmud authors are invoking in particular stories? How do we deal with the indeterminacy of truth? Can it be that God actually wants us to hold opinions that are contradictory to one another? Is this text a lesson on the best way to convince people of our opinions or the best way to build lasting relationships with people we disagree with? How do we preserve dissent for the future?

This week’s text: “Elu v’Elu, These and These are the Words of The Living God” (Eruvin 13b)

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“We have to imagine that everything that we love today, or don't love, might end up in the Tisha b’Av of the future.” - Dan Libenson

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

This episode was originally released for Tisha b’Av in 2020, the Jewish calendar’s most essential day of mourning and remembrance. In our new podcast re-release schedule, this episode is coming out much closer to Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. As Hashem would have it, Dan and Benay draw some fascinating connections between Tisha b’Av and Yom Kippur, deepening our appreciation and intentions for both. 

How do holidays slip away from their most potent purposes? What does it mean to mourn for something, somewhen, or someone without wanting it or them back? How do we deal with a guilt of not being in a constant state of mourning? How can we use Tisha b’Av to reflect on the great CRASHes of history, the shifting eras of authority and responsibility? What we can’t imagine losing?

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“I love the world of the Talmud. I love the fact that they need to justify, they wanna justify, they wanna talk and talk and talk; the way that people who are less socially confident sometimes find themselves doing, when we're in a situation where we're in a new community, and we just, you know, ramble! That's something I love about the Talmud.” - Shai Secunda

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

This week Dan & Benay learn with special guest scholar Shai Secunda! Shai Secunda is Jacob Neusner Professor in the History and Theology of Judaism at Bard College. He received a bachelor’s degree from Ner Israel Rabbinical College, a master’s from Johns Hopkins University, and an MA/PhD from Yeshiva University. He is the author of “The Iranian Talmud: Reading the Talmud in its Sasanian Context” (University of Pennsylvania Press, 2014) and “The Talmud’s Red Fence: Menstruation and Difference in Babylonian Judaism and its Sasanian Context” (Oxford University Press, 2020).

What are some aspects of the geopolitical context in which the Talmud was formed? What was it about the time, space, and culture where the Rabbis lived that led them to construct the Gemara, its winding justifications and responses to the rarely justified radical changes of the Mishnah? How granular can we get into eras of the Talmudic period? Was anyone else doing what the Rabbis were? How do we navigate difficult gaps in evidence?

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“I find it deeply moving and worthy of homilies that arguably the most influential voices in the history of Jewish thinking are anonymous.” - Daniel Boyarin

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

This week Dan & Benay learn with special guest scholar Daniel Boyarin! Boyarin is the Hermann P. and Sophia Taubman Emeritus Professor of Talmudic Culture in the Departments of Near Eastern Studies and Rhetoric at the University of California at Berkeley. He is the author of many articles and books on the Talmud, including “A Traveling Homeland: The Babylonian Talmud as Diaspora” (2015), “Border Lines: The Partition of Judaeo-Christianity” (2004), “Carnal Israel: Reading Sex in Talmudic Culture” (1993), “Socrates and the Fat Rabbis” (2009), “Unheroic Conduct: The Rise of Heterosexuality and the Invention of the Jewish Man” (1997), and, most recently “The No-State Solution: A Jewish Manifesto” (2023), themes of which Boyarin experiments with in this interview from the Summer of 2020. 

What does it mean to approach to Talmud as a portable homeland for a Diaspora nation? How does it feel to be charmed by Talmud? Is Talmud a project of intentional incoherence? What lessons do we learn from the voice of the anonymous editor(s) of Talmud. How do we find a usable past?

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“It's only when you know why, and the essence behind the whys, that you are able to create. You're able to then be free of the momentary form of a practice, which is trying to achieve a certain goal, and create other forms that achieve that same goal.” - Benay Lappe

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

This week we return to the legend of Rabbi Meir, who we began learning about in Episode 13. When we met him, he was a master of Rabbinic acrobatics, able to turn any law inside out, and offer his incredible logic as support. Now we’re going back a page to learn about his origins, who his teachers were - and how he learned to “Gemar his Gemara & Savar his Svara!”  

Why hone our gemirna and savirna? How do we learn to find the radical messages on every page of Talmud? What do we get from different teachers? When do we turn to Rashi’s commentary, and how do we put it in context? Why do we ask “why”?

This week’s text: Rabbi Meir’s Origins (Eruvin 13a and Sotah 20a)

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.

“Even if the good book was not written by God, the Talmudic page is often a good place to encounter the Divine.” - Ruth Calderon

Welcome to The Oral Talmud, our weekly deep dive chevruta study partnership, discovering how voices of the Talmud from 1500 years ago can help us rethink Judaism today. 

This week Dan & Benay learn with special guest scholar Ruth Calderon, author of “A Bride for One Night: Talmud Tales” (2014). In 1996, Calderon founded ALMA: A Home for Jewish Culture in Tel Aviv, where she built pathways for secular Jews to enter into Talmud study. Calderon also served on the Knesset from 2013-2015, and reflects on dynamics between secular and religious Israelis, as well as the impact of coronavirus in 2020 (when this episode was recorded). 

How do we find our paths to Talmud? What is Talmud doing that gives the sense of the Divine? What does it mean to “read against grain,” and how can it help us expand our perspective? What can the story Ruth brings teach us about how the Rabbis thought of approaching death? Who do we see in this relationship with Death now?

This week’s text: Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi and the Angel of Death (Ketubot 77b)

Find an edited transcript and full shownotes of references and further reading on The Oral Talmud webpage for this episode! Access the Sefaria Source Sheet to explore key Talmud texts and find the original video of our discussion. The Oral Talmud is a co-production of Judaism Unbound and SVARA: A Traditionally Radical Yeshiva. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help us keep both fabulous Jewish organizations going with a one-time or monthly tax-deductible donation at oraltalmud.com. You can find a donate button on the top right corner of the website.