The Pact

In Retrospective 5, Josh discusses how a family loss created massive life changes during the creation of TCB season 2. And how the pandemic and Kelly Cochran led to some massive podcast changes, gambles, and fears.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Slovenia
https://trovatrip.com/trip/europe/slovenia/slovenia-with-josh-hallmark-jun-2027

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

PATREON
www.patreon.com/studiobothand

SPONSORS
• Coveron: Coveron.com/TCB with code TCB for 20% off (for the first 100 users).
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns.  
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

In Retrospective 4, Josh discusses how massive life changes coalesced with the creation of the first season of TCB. How he isolated himself entirely to both heal and get into the head-spaces of the people he'd spent so much time researching and writing about. Plus, what went into creating the season one finale.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.
• BetterHelp: BetterHelp.com/TCB for 10% off your first month.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

In Retrospective 3, Josh discusses how 24 harrowing hours changed his life and the course of True Crime Bullsh**. He discusses how an incident re-shaped his vision for the first episode of the podcast, and his view on true crime and its darkness. Plus, the impact of that first episode on listeners, and the impact of those listeners on Josh.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.

Retrospective 2 takes us to the origin of the investigation; where Josh's interest in storytelling evolved into his obsession of needing to know everything. And it started in a surprising place: a bound book of correspondence between two teenage girls and their landlord. What started as comedic found writing, became a mystery that people could not let go. And as Josh made his way through it, while working on TCB, he learned about investigations and their repercussions.

This is parts one and two of The Karen & Ellen Letters, Josh's first full-fledged investigation.

10th Anniversary Retreat
https://www.bothand.fyi/event-details-registration/ten-year-anniversary-celebration

TROVA TRIP to Galápagos Islands
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

TROVA TRIP to Costa Rica
https://trovatrip.com/trip/central-america/costa-rica/costa-rica-with-josh-hallmark-nov-2026

Cast:
Sara Stapleton as Karen
Sara Kitcher as Ellen
Jeff Powell as Mark
Matt Peelen as Rob

SPONSORS
• Boll & Branch: BollAndBranch.com/truecrimebs for 20% off.  
• Quince: Quince.com/TCBS for free shipping and 356-day returns with code TCBS.  
• Schedule35: Schedule35.co with promo code TCBS for 15% off your first order.

To celebrate 10 years in podcasting, we're spending the summer going back in time and both highlighting key episodes and telling the stories behind them; you’ll get new behind-the-scenes information about what was happening in life, in various investigations, and in the world that impacted these important episodes and their podcasts. You’ll learn how Josh started podcasting, how he started investigating Israel Keyes, some hilarious and terrifying stories from the road, and some really vulnerable and personal stories.

We start our first retrospective at, duh, the beginning. Josh shares how both his podcasting journey and Keyes obsession began. He discusses his time in Seattle and on the Olympic Peninsula, how he ended up on the East Coast, his first deep-dive investigation (not Keyes) and how that led to his second (Keyes).

And this kicks off an early episode of his very first show, Our Americana, entitled Van Life. 

TROVA TRIP to The Galapagos Islands:
https://trovatrip.com/trip/south-america/ecuador/ecuador-with-josh-hallmark-jan-2027

Season finale.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Featuring:
Eric Carter-Landin from True Consequences and Crimelines & Consequences
Albert Perkins

Resources:

• Religiosity and Attitudes Toward Lesbians and Gay Men: A Meta-Analysis by Bernard E. Whitley Jr.
• How Religiosity Shapes Rejection of Homosexuals Across the Globe by Dirk-Jan Janssen
• The New York Times
• The Harvard Political Review
• The National Institutes for Health
• The National Institues for Health
• The American Psychological Association
• The Harvard University Press
• The Hill
• The Trevor Project
• The Human Rights Campaign

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Adi Goldstein
Featured music by: Frank Ocean

To better understand Lorenzo and Schweickert, their possible other crimes, and their MOs and victimology, Josh chats with clinical psychologist Dr. Scott (LA Not So Confidential) about killers who work in pairs, BDSM, Antisocial Personality Disorder, psychopathy, narcissism, and how homophobia made their ongoing crimes possible.
Plus: The Warrior gene, behavioral drift, Kanye West, Anita Bryant, and more.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
Featuring: Dr. Scott from the LA Not So Confidential podcast

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Color Book, Yehezkel Raz, Adi Goldstein, Infinity Lab, and Yotam Agam
Featured music by: Perfume Genius

At trial and at sentencing, Lorenzo's many surviving victims testified against him, including the impactful statements made by Albert Perkins, who Lorenzo kidnapped and assaulted in February of 2000. The testimony and eventual plea deals made by both Schweickert and Lorenzo would provide great insight into their MOs and victimology. But at what cost?
Because by some accounts, investigators and the prosecution were as hard on the survivors as they were Lorenzo himself.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Resources:

• Fox 13 Tampa Bay: https://www.fox13news.com/news/nothing-behind-his-eyes-his-face-was-contorted-victim-of-steven-lorenzo-woke-up-panicked
• The Tampa Bay Times: https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2006/01/28/defiant-lorenzo-gets-200-years/
• The Netflix documentary Victim/Suspect: https://www.netflix.com/title/81288561

Featuring:
Albert Perkins

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Circles, Field, Yehezkel Raz, and Ahimsa
Featured music by: Rufus Wainwright

Scott Schweickert's house is searched, disturbing photos are found on Steven Lorenzo's computer, more Lorenzo assault victims come forward, someone confesses, and another gay man goes missing.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark 
With additional research by: Kaz

Featuring:
• Dr. Scott from LA Not So Confidential
• Drew Mackie from Gayest Episode Ever

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by: Evolving Scapes, Grisly Bill, Light in the Shadow, Hynogogia, Yehezkel Raz, and Yotam Agam
Featured music by: Chris Garneau

Steven Lorenzo's friend and accomplice is identified as Scott Schweickert. And the pair's history is revealed through AOL instant messages and a mutual friend. Tampa PD investigate multiple assaults within the Tampa gay community, leading to an arrest and a second search warrant. And the relationship between Steven and Scott gets complicated.

This episode was written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark
With additional research by: Kaz
Audio editing by Darron Wood (The Defense Diaries podcast)

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Resources include:
• The Charlie Project
• NAMUS
• The Tampa Bay Times: Which one is the real Scott?
• Newspapers.com
• CNN.com
• Equity Florida Action, Inc

Music by: Yehezkel Rez, Circles, The Bows, Spiriturn, and Colour Book
Featured music by: Owen Pallett