Josh goes inside the investigation into Kelly Cochran, revealing new information, new links, and a possible timeline. And the investigation itself raises some important questions about what authorities do and don't know.
Next episode: 24 May 2023

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, The Inner Shore

If Laura Frizzo knows Kelly best, then Walt Ammerman probably knew Jason best. We get to know Jason through an interview with friend and eventual informant, Walt. Then we explore Kelly's Facebook and its odd parallels to her crimes, and an unsolved Indiana homicide and its odd parallels to Chris Regan's murder.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.

Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Kyle Preston, and LEVY.

She may be the only living person to truly know Kelly Cochran.
Laura Frizzo talks the Cochrans, David Thayer, the glass ceiling, and how this case has impacted her life.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Chris Zabriskie, LaBon

The investigation into Jason and Kelly Cochran's other crimes begins with a look into their time in Indiana; revealing some strange and shocking connections.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face, Kevin MacLeod, and Jenny Wilson.

Sources: NAMUS, The Charley Project, Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder, and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps, The Iron Mountain Daily News, and The Iron County Reporter.

The trial of Kelly Cochran reveals shocking information about Kelly and Jason, discerns Kelly's truth from lies, and begins painting a clear picture of the Cochrans' killing spree. Plus, we take a closer look at Jason's manuscript.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Chris Zabriskie, Stacxk, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face.
Sources: Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder, and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps, The Iron Mountain Daily News, The Iron County Reporter, and Dead North.

Kelly discusses a third murder. Josh takes a look at the two women at the center of this case, and how their lives were affected and intertwined by it.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Lee Rosevere, Radical Face.
Sources: The Iron Mountain Daily News, Michigan Live, U.P. Matters, The Iron County Reporter, Dead North.

Investigators and psychologists try to get to the bottom of which Cochran was abusing the other. Chief Frizzo works with the FBI and an unlikely informant to coerce Kelly into confessing. And Kelly hits the road, again.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Radical Face, and Anna Calvi
Sources: Dead North and The Iron County Reporter

Phone records, discrepancies in Kelly Cochran's statements, search warrants, and several interviews lead to some shocking revelations surrounding Chris Regan's disappearance. Plus, criminal psychologist, Joni Johnston, discusses female psychopaths.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Written, researched, edited, and produced by Josh Hallmark.
Music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Whithe, Sergey Cheremisinov, Radical Face, and The Bird & The Bee.

Sources: Dead North, Psychology Today, and Where Monsters Hide: Sex, Murder and Madness in the Midwest by M. William Phelps

On the night of Kelly Cochran's wedding, her husband Jason forced her to agree to a pact: That if she ever cheated on him, she'd have to kill the man she cheated with. That pact would result in the deaths of at least 9 people.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.pactpodcast.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience or to support the show: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Music:
Chris Zabriskie: Last Night I Dreamt I Saw True Love in Your Eyes
Sergey Cheremisinov: Sleepers
Sergey Cheremisinov: Comets and Sparks Whithe: Consequences DOOMSQUAD: Ice Storm
My Brightest Diamond: Lover Killer

Resources:
• FOIA files
• Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-equation/201805/what-we-know-and-dont-know-about-female-psychopaths
• The Iron Mountain Daily News: https://www.ironmountaindailynews.com/news/local-news/2017/02/missing-or-dead/
• Dead North, Investigation Discovery
• The Iron County Reporter

It started with the 2014 disappearance of an Upper Michigan man named Chris Regan. The two-year investigation into his disappearance would take authorities on a strange journey into a world of sex, drugs, pig farming, alleged cannibalism, and serial murder; all stemming from a wedding day pact between Kelly and Jason Cochran, that resulted in the murder of at least two men. Investigative reporter, Josh Hallmark, dives through thousands of case files and dozens of hours of interviews with Kelly to make sense of the breadth of her crimes and her often contradictory stories, in hopes of identifying her additional victims she's refused to name... if there even are any.

Launches: 3/15/23

The Pact originally aired as season 3 of True Crime Bullsh**.