The Payments Experts Podcast

Dual Pricing Is Exploding—But Most Merchants Are Getting It Wrong

If you've noticed more businesses offering different prices for cash versus credit, you're not imagining things. Dual pricing is gaining serious traction among merchants looking to offset rising card processing costs. But behind the growing popularity lies a compliance maze that too many business owners are navigating blind.

In this episode, Joe Wilkins, Managing Partner at Great Credit Card Processing, (https://greatcreditcardprocessing.com/), joins Leo Arzumanyan and Jeremy Stock of Global Legal Law Firm to break down the real-world challenges of cash discounting and dual pricing—and why getting it wrong can carry serious consequences.

At first glance, it sounds simple: “Every product has two prices—one for cash, one for cards.” But as Wilkins and the legal team explain, proper implementation is anything but simple. From receipt formatting and signage to item-level pricing and customer disclosures, the fine print matters. And while dual pricing is legal in all 50 states, improper execution remains one of the most common compliance pitfalls in the industry.

Here’s where the conversation delivers real value for payment professionals and merchants alike:

• Why ‘following the crowd’ leads to bad implementations
• How pricing strategies can trigger regulatory attention and consumer backlash
• The compliance differences between surcharging and dual pricing—and why it matters

Joe also shares how his team helps merchants stay compliant through hands-on support, including in-person training, ongoing audits, and even covering the cost of menu and POS updates to reflect compliant dual pricing structures.

The conversation highlights a key regional insight: states like New York have significantly higher merchant awareness thanks to public education campaigns. But for multi-state operators, navigating inconsistent consumer expectations adds another layer of complexity.

Whether you're a merchant looking to adopt dual pricing, an ISO building out a compliant offering, or a payments consultant advising clients, this episode delivers clear, actionable insights into a space that’s becoming more crowded—and more regulated—by the day.

As Joe puts it: “Payment processing doesn’t have to be confusing. You just need the right partner and the right playbook.”

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Why Cybersecurity Is Now a Revenue Imperative for Payment Processors—and a Lifeline for Merchants

Cybersecurity is no longer just an IT issue—it's now a frontline concern for revenue protection, portfolio stability, and merchant survival. In this episode, industry veteran Jon Aronson, who’s been shaping payments since 1994, speaks with Christ Dryden and Jeremy Stock as he breaks down how AJ Global Cybersecurity is redefining merchant protection through a mix of Quick Reactionary Funds and a robust six-layer defense architecture.

We confront a critical stat that can’t be ignored: 43% of cyberattacks target small businesses. And yet, many merchants still rely on outdated antivirus tools that offer little protection against today’s coordinated, AI-driven attacks. John outlines how his team delivers immediate financial lifelines during ransomware incidents, giving merchants crucial time to act strategically rather than paying ransoms in desperation.

What sets this discussion apart for payments professionals is the revenue angle:
 Payment processors are now embedding cybersecurity into their service stack, creating recurring revenue streams while reducing downstream risk. It’s not just about protection—it’s about portfolio value, attrition reduction, and long-term trust.

We also explore:

• AI-driven threat detection modeled on real-time counterintelligence strategies
• Cyber due diligence in M&A—why breaches can tank valuations overnight
• How to position cybersecurity as a value-added service to boost merchant retention and acquisition

With decades of experience spanning both payments and cybersecurity, John offers a rare hybrid perspective that merges operational know-how with technical precision.

Whether you're an ISO hunting for new monetization paths, a merchant navigating increasing digital threats, or a processor aiming to de-risk your book, this conversation delivers actionable intelligence to help you stay ahead of evolving threats—and capitalize on the opportunity they present.

Subscribe for more insights that help you turn risk into revenue and complexity into competitive edge.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Big Changes Ahead: What Visa’s New VAMP Program Means for Merchants.

The payments world is bracing for a major shakeup—and many merchants might not be ready for what’s coming. In this eye-opening episode, Matthew Steinbrecher of Sound Commerce (https://sound-commerce.com/) joins us to unpack Visa’s new Visa Acquirer Monitoring Program (VAMP), set to roll out on October 1st, and why it could impact nearly every corner of the payments ecosystem.

With over a decade in global payments, Matthew breaks down how VAMP will unify Visa’s separate monitoring programs into a single, streamlined system. But the biggest—and potentially most disruptive—change? Merchants will no longer be able to exclude proactive refunds from their chargeback ratios. For many, this has been a key tactic to stay under compliance thresholds.

As Christopher Dryden puts it, “Theoretically, based on what’s been published, that’s not going to happen any longer.” This seemingly small adjustment could have big consequences, especially for high-risk verticals like supplements, electronics, and other direct-to-consumer categories.
The discussion gets into real examples, including one disturbing case where a processor froze both incoming transactions and refund capabilities. The result? A self-fulfilling chargeback spiral—the merchant couldn’t resolve issues, leading to even more disputes.

Beyond the policy itself, we dive into what this all means in practice:

•What should merchants be doing now to prepare?
•Why is accurate, cross-platform data reporting more important than ever?
•And how can specialized payments ops teams help businesses stay ahead?

We also look at how acquirers and processors might respond—and the potential unintended ripple effects across the industry.

Whether you’re a merchant, ISO, acquirer, or payments professional, this episode delivers need-to-know insights and actionable advice. Don’t miss Matthew’s perspective on what smart players should be doing now to weather the VAMP storm.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**  

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Caleb Avery's journey from selling payment terminals door-to-door as a college student to founding Tilled (https://www.tilled.com/), a revolutionary PayFac-as-a-Service platform, demonstrates the rapid evolution happening in the payments industry. In this fascinating conversation, Caleb shares James Huber of Global Legal Law Firm how his early experiences revealed small business owners' frustration with traditional payment processors, creating an opportunity for innovative solutions.

 • Noticed small business owners were frustrated with experiences from big banks and processors
 • Observed merchant needs evolving from simple terminals to integration with vertical software
 • Began consulting for software platforms and noticed they were using Stripe and missing revenue opportunities
 • Created Tilled to offer software companies a Stripe-like experience with better support and revenue generation
 • PayFac-as-a-Service provides API-first approach with developer-friendly documentation similar to Stripe
 • Helps agents and ISOs put their portfolios "on autopilot" by signing software platforms rather than individual merchants
 • Seeing expansion into increasingly niche vertical markets with specialized software solutions
 • Future direction includes moving beyond just payments to offer capital, banking, and disbursement solutions
 • Multiple partnership models available from simple referrals to white-labeling to enterprise solutions
 
 The real turning point came when Caleb noticed merchants increasingly asking about integration with vertical software platforms that offered features beyond just payment processing. After years consulting for software companies using Stripe, he recognized they were missing substantial revenue opportunities, which became the catalyst for creating Tilled.
 
 What makes Tilled unique is its API-first approach, creating a developer-friendly experience that transforms technology from an obstacle into an asset during the sales process. This allows payment professionals to escape the grind of door-to-door merchant acquisition and instead focus on signing software platforms that can automatically grow their portfolios as they acquire new users.
 
 Particularly intriguing is Caleb's perspective on the challenge facing traditional ISOs and agents. Rather than viewing the rise of vertical software as a threat, he positions it as an opportunity – albeit one requiring adaptation. Through multiple partnership models ranging from simple referrals to white-labeled solutions to enterprise integrations, Tilled provides pathways for payment professionals to transition into this new paradigm.
 
 Looking forward, Caleb envisions an expansion beyond just embedded payments into comprehensive financial services ecosystems. As successful vertical software companies increasingly offer lending, banking, and disbursement solutions alongside payments, Tilled is positioning itself to provide these capabilities to mid-market platforms, creating multiple revenue streams for its partners.
 
 For anyone working in payments or vertical software, this conversation offers crucial insights into industry trends and strategic opportunities that will shape the future of financial technology and merchant services.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**  

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Riley Bangerter, founder of Aacadia Payments (https://aacadiapayments.net/), takes us on a fascinating journey through the evolving payment processing landscape, sharing his unique path from stockbroker to payment expert following the 2008 financial crisis.
 
 • Entered the payments industry seeking residual income after the 2008 financial crisis collapsed his mortgage business
 • Founded Aacadia Payments six years ago and partnered with Daryl Peppers to create a balanced leadership team
 • Specializes in challenging verticals including coaching services and social media platforms
 • Recently partnered with LegitScript to expedite certification for telehealth merchants from 8 months to 2 days
 • Identifies poor customer service as the biggest challenge facing ISOs and payment processors
 • Implemented AI across business operations for emails, marketing content, and customer communications
 • Predicts metaverse commerce and augmented reality as the next frontier for payment processing
 • Advocates for industry-wide efforts to eliminate fraudsters and bad actors who damage merchant relationships
 • Emphasizes that payments should fuel business growth rather than drain margins
 
 Drawing from his background in securities and mortgage industries, Riley offers a refreshing perspective on payment processing as a financial service, highlighting the surprising lack of licensing requirements despite merchants completing what are essentially credit applications. This regulatory gap creates opportunities for both innovation and abuse – a tension Riley navigates with transparency and long-term relationship building.
 
 Aacadia Payments has carved out success in challenging verticals like coaching services and social media platforms by implementing thoughtful risk controls. Riley shares a compelling case study of a social media app where users purchase digital currency to gift influencers, detailing how they transformed a fraud-prone model into a sustainable business through strategic value adjustments and monitoring.
 
 The conversation tackles significant industry challenges, from agent hopping to Visa's increasingly stringent surcharge enforcement. Riley reveals how Visa "secret shoppers" document non-compliant merchants with photographic evidence, sometimes resulting in thousand-dollar fines for minor infractions. His strategic partnership with LegitScript demonstrates Aacadia's commitment to legitimate merchants, reducing certification timelines from 8 months to just 2 days.
 
 Looking toward the horizon, Riley predicts metaverse commerce and augmented reality platforms will become the next frontier for payment processing, drawing parallels to gaming giants like Roblox. He details how Aacadia embraces AI across all business operations – from customer communications to marketing content – giving listeners practical examples of technology implementation that delivers real results.
 
 What makes this conversation truly valuable is Riley's passionate call for industry collaboration. "Payments should fuel growth, not drain margins," he emphasizes, advocating for transparency, education, and removing bad actors who damage merchant relationships. Connect with Riley and learn more about Aacadia Payments at AacadiaPayments.net.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Who really controls the flow of money in payment systems? The answer might surprise you. In this eye-opening conversation with payments industry veteran Eric Grover of Intrepid Ventures (https://intrepidventures.net/), we uncover the fundamental power dynamics that determine how interchange fees move through the ecosystem.

Eric and Christopher Dryden, Esq., discuss how payment system economics fundamentally flow toward those who can affect transaction volume, explaining why interchange typically benefits issuers rather than merchants. He explores the regulatory challenges facing the payments industry, from CFPB restructuring to state-level interchange restrictions that threaten to create an expensive, unworkable compliance patchwork.
 
 • Interchange fees flow to issuers because they can affect payment volume share, while merchants are typically price takers
 • Asymmetric pricing is at the core of merchant and acquirer discomfort with the current system
 • The CFPB is being dramatically scaled back under the new administration, potentially creating a regulatory vacuum
 • State-level interchange regulations like Illinois' ban on fees for tax and tips pose multi-billion dollar compliance challenges
 • Industry consolidation continues with Global's acquisition of WorldPay, though earlier mega-mergers are partially unwinding
 • ISOs must evolve beyond payment processing to remain relevant, with software integration becoming essential
 • Payment protectionism is increasing globally as countries develop national systems and resist foreign processors
 • Central banks in countries like Brazil both regulate payment systems and compete directly in the market
 
Grover explains that despite merchant complaints about interchange costs, the flow of fees to issuers isn't primarily about covering expenses—it's about economic leverage. Banks can shift transaction volume between networks, giving them bargaining power that merchants typically lack. This creates what Grover calls "asymmetric pricing," where acquirers and merchants become price takers in the system. But what would happen if consumers became completely indifferent about which payment method they used? The entire economic model might flip, with interchange potentially flowing to merchants instead.
 
The regulatory landscape is undergoing seismic shifts as the CFPB faces dramatic restructuring under the new administration. While the Supreme Court upheld the bureau's funding mechanism, its staffing and focus are being radically curtailed. This creates a regulatory vacuum that states are rushing to fill—with potentially disastrous consequences. Illinois and Colorado are already implementing state-level interchange regulations that would cost billions to implement and create a compliance nightmare for payment processors, networks, and merchants alike.
 
 Meanwhile, industry consolidation continues with Global's acquisition of WorldPay, though interestingly, we're seeing a reversal of the "mega-processor" trend from 2019-2020. Companies that once touted the benefits of operating across the entire payments value chain are now divesting units, suggesting that management complexity and cultural integration challenges can outweigh theoretical synergies.
 
Contact Eric Grover at [email protected] to learn more about navigating these complex industry dynamics and staying ahead of the regulatory curve.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Anthony Malatesta, Principal at Wellesley Hills Financial (https://www.wellesleyhillsfinancial.com/) joins Global Legal Law Firm’s Christopher Dryden and Jeremy Stock to share crucial insights about positioning payment businesses for optimal valuation and successful exits.

What's the real difference between a merely profitable payments business and one that commands premium multiples at exit? According to Anthony Malatesta of Wellesley Hills Financial Group, it comes down to intentional preparation, data analytics, and strategic positioning.
 
 The journey into payments is rarely planned. For Anthony, it began with an unpaid college internship that evolved into a career at the intersection of capital markets and payment processing. This unique perspective allows him to bridge operational realities with financial valuations – precisely what most business owners lack when focused on day-to-day operations.
 
 Most payment professionals are shocked to discover how unprepared their businesses are for potential exit opportunities. When asked for basic operational information like employee compensation structures or downline agent contracts, many admit it would take weeks to compile – a deficiency that can slash millions from transaction values during due diligence. The businesses commanding premium valuations have systematized their operations, reporting, and financial management long before exit opportunities emerge.
 
 While many industry voices have declared "the ISO model is dying" for over a decade, Anthony reveals a more nuanced reality. Traditional processing-only models face compression, but software-integrated payment businesses are securing extraordinary multiples – some reaching 80-90x compared to traditional 30x valuations. The market continues rewarding businesses that increase merchant stickiness through vertical-specific solutions and additional value-added services.
 
 For payment professionals contemplating strategic positioning, Anthony emphasizes "product over price" approaches rather than racing to the bottom with rebates or cash discount programs. The most valuable businesses have shifted from transactional relationships to becoming essential operational partners for their merchants. This approach not only reduces attrition but creates multiple revenue streams that significantly enhance valuation.
 
 Perhaps most critically, Anthony highlights the importance of understanding your business at a granular level – from attrition metrics to sales team performance analytics. These insights enable strategic adjustments that directly impact enterprise value, creating intentional pathways toward successful exits.
 
 Ready to transform how you approach your payments business? Connect with Anthony and his team at MerchantPortfolios.com or WellesleyHillsFinancial.com to discover what your business is truly worth and how to maximize its value for your eventual exit.

Take control of your business future by understanding the true value drivers in your portfolio and building an intentional strategy to maximize them. Your exit value depends on it.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: 

https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Two payments industry veteran experts talk about electronic payments in a way you have never heard before.  Join Christopher Dryden, Esq., and special guest Allen Kopelman, Nationwide Payment Systems, Inc., for this in-depth, fascinating discussion. 

Check out Allen’s new NPS One platform coming soon, offering merchants a comprehensive business tool with rapid approval, virtual terminal capabilities, invoicing, links to accounting, embedded finance options, and more.

The payments landscape is transforming rapidly through consolidation, technology integration, and changing fee structures, leaving merchants and payment professionals scrambling to adapt. Major processor mergers like Global Payments acquiring WorldPay have reduced competition while software companies increasingly control payment relationships, disrupting traditional ISO business models.
 
 Software has become the central battleground in payments. When every business operation connects to software platforms, those platforms increasingly dictate payment processing choices. "ISO software is the new ISO," as one expert noted, with many businesses finding their payment options restricted by their essential software providers. Private equity-backed companies are purchasing previously "agnostic" platforms and redirecting merchant payment streams, creating significant challenges for payment professionals who built businesses on residual income.
 
 Dual pricing (formerly cash discounting) and surcharging have emerged as critical merchant strategies, with approximately 35% now passing processing fees to customers. This shift occurs amid complex regulatory challenges – Visa capping surcharges at 3% while MasterCard maintains 4%, alongside state-specific regulations in New York, New Jersey, California, and Colorado. Merchants face practical implementation hurdles, especially in retail environments where displaying dual pricing on physical merchandise creates logistical nightmares.
 
 Despite digital acceleration, cash maintains surprising resilience. Many workers receiving pay cards immediately withdraw cash, while certain business segments (contractors, repair services, salons) continue offering cash incentives. One payments expert reported dispensing over a million dollars monthly from a small ATM fleet, demonstrating cash's enduring role in specific economic sectors.
 
 The industry faces critical ethical challenges too. Some agents program terminals to display higher surcharges than merchants actually pay, creating hidden profit centers. Others establish questionable referral relationships that potentially violate card brand rules or trigger money transmitter regulations. Without industry-wide agent tracking or standardized licensing, these problematic practices continue unchecked.
 
 What does this mean for your business? Understanding these shifting dynamics helps you make informed decisions about payment processing, software integration, and fee structures. Whether you're considering implementing dual pricing, evaluating integrated software options, or simply trying to minimize processing costs, staying informed about industry trends provides crucial competitive advantage in an increasingly complex payments ecosystem.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Go say hello to our guest Allen Kopelman over at https://nationwidepaymentsystems.com/

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

From ATMs so novel they didn't even have a name to AI-powered payment systems that can take your order perfectly—the payments landscape has transformed dramatically since the 1970s. Joining Chris Dryden on the Payments Experts Podcast today is Patti Murphy, the "Payments Maven of the Fourth Estate," whose four-decade journey covering payment technology offers a unique perspective on how far we've come and where we're headed.

• Beginning her payments career in 1977 editing an EFT examination handbook when ATMs were so new they didn't even have that name
 • Discussing current CFPB changes under the new administration, including regulations affecting big tech payment apps handling $13 trillion annually
 • Explaining how real-time payments differ from services like Venmo and Zelle, which appear instant but process through traditional channels
 • Exploring Durbin 2.0 and its requirements that merchants have choice of networks, with only one owned by Visa or Mastercard
 • Examining Illinois' groundbreaking payment regulation and how 20 other states are developing similar legislation
 • Looking at the evolution of ISOs through partnerships with software vendors and adoption of AI technology
 • Highlighting innovative payment technologies including AI-powered ordering systems and SKU management for small retailers
 
 Patti shares fascinating insights about her early days editing an EFT examination handbook in 1977, witnessing the birth of electronic payments when the technology was so revolutionary that people joked about "a hand sticking out of a television handing you money." That science fiction has become our everyday reality.
 
 We dive deep into current regulatory challenges facing payment processors. The Consumer Financial Protection Bureau's changing role under different administrations has created a regulatory rollercoaster, particularly for big tech payment apps handling a staggering $13 trillion in annual transactions. Meanwhile, the Illinois legislation targeting card brands represents an unprecedented state-level challenge to payment networks—with 20 other states considering similar measures. Could this finally force federal action?
 
 The conversation explores real-time payments and how they differ from services like Venmo that merely create the appearance of instant transfers. We unpack Durbin 2.0's potential impact on network competition, and how the Capital One acquisition of Discover adds a fascinating new dimension to the payments ecosystem.
 
 For payment professionals, we examine how ISOs continue to evolve through partnerships with software vendors, combining sales expertise with technological innovation. The rise of AI-powered payment solutions—from automated ordering systems to comprehensive inventory management—represents both challenges and opportunities for industry veterans and newcomers alike.
 
 Whether you're a payment professional, merchant, or simply fascinated by how money moves in our digital economy, this episode offers valuable perspective on an industry that, as Patti puts it, "is the engine that keeps the economy going." Subscribe now and join the conversation about the past, present, and future of payments!

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit us today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm

Paul Hadfield shares his journey from college dropout to successful payment processor, emphasizing the importance of building sticky merchant relationships through technology and customer service rather than treating them as short-term revenue sources.  Enjoy this conversation with James Huber, managing partner of Global Legal Law Firm.
 
 • Started in payments in 2001 after answering a newspaper ad while contemplating dropping out of college
 • Built and sold his first ISO in 2013, then created another payment processing company focused on long-term business building
 • Transitioned from a pure sales approach to technology-focused solutions as the industry evolved
 • Created a cash discount application for Clover that now has approximately 7,000 active users
 • Observed how COVID changed merchant and consumer attitudes toward payment processing fees
 • Focused business strategy on restaurant industry where point-of-sale systems can function as a "central nervous system"
 • Recently sold his second payments company while maintaining an entrepreneurial role
 • Believes in fostering honest feedback from employees to drive continuous improvement
 • Values building businesses with long-term vision rather than short-term profit goals
 
 Contact Paul at paulhadfield.co or email him at [email protected].

Imagine starting your career in the basement of a dental office, slinging merchant accounts on 100% commission, and building that hustle into multiple successful payment processing companies. That's exactly what Paul Hadfield did after answering a newspaper ad that promised ongoing monthly residuals for each sale—a concept so appealing it prompted him to drop out of college.
 
 What separates Paul's approach from many in the payments industry is his fundamental philosophy: "Never lose a customer." While some processors view merchants as revenue sources to exploit with hidden fees and restrictive contracts, Paul built his businesses treating merchants as long-term partners. This perspective became increasingly critical as the industry evolved from simple terminal-based systems to sophisticated technology platforms.
 
 The conversation explores how the payments landscape has transformed dramatically over the past two decades. Around 2016-2017, Paul noticed a pivotal shift where technology began outweighing relationships and pricing as the deciding factor for merchants. This realization led him to develop specialized solutions like a cash discount application for Clover and focus intensely on the restaurant industry, where point-of-sale systems can function as a business's "central nervous system" when properly implemented.
 
 Perhaps most fascinating is Paul's observation about how the pandemic fundamentally changed merchant and consumer attitudes toward payment processing fees. Pre-COVID, implementing surcharges or cash discounts often met resistance; post-pandemic, these practices gained widespread acceptance as consumers became more understanding of businesses' need to offset costs.
 
 After building and selling multiple payment companies, Paul shares valuable insights about entrepreneurship, leadership challenges, and the delicate balance of providing honest feedback in organizations. Whether you're in the payments industry or running any business, his journey offers valuable lessons about building sticky customer relationships and adapting to technological change without losing your core values.

**Matters discussed are all opinions and do not constitute legal advice.  All events or likeness to real people and events is a coincidence.**

Visit Global Legal Law Firm today: https://www.globallegallawfirm.com/

A payments podcast of Global Legal Law Firm