The Rainmaking Podcast

In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Jen Gilman, legal recruiter and advocate for lawyer well-being, about the six pillars to becoming a happy rainmaker. Jen shares insights from her extensive experience working with attorneys and law firms, emphasizing that success in rainmaking doesn’t always equate to happiness. She explains that many high-achieving lawyers feel trapped in their careers, despite their financial success, because they lack control over their time, well-being, and long-term vision. By focusing on intentional planning, self-care, and business development, lawyers can create a fulfilling and sustainable career.

Key topics include the six pillars to becoming a happy rainmaker: 1) Care for yourself, treating oneself like an elite athlete to maintain mental and physical health; 2) Build business, emphasizing the importance of client relationships for autonomy; 3) Plan intentionally, structuring time for both business development and personal well-being; 4) Set boundaries, ensuring work-life balance to prevent burnout; 5) Learn continuously, fostering a growth mindset; and 6) Build a legacy, creating a long-term impact beyond billable hours. Jen also shares practical strategies for planning ahead, developing a business plan to ensure professional growth, and delegating tasks to free up time for more meaningful activities. This episode provides a structured approach for lawyers and professionals looking to enhance their careers, reduce stress, and achieve greater fulfillment in their work.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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Jennifer Gillman is President of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting company focused solely on law firm partner placement. Her goal is to help dissatisfied law firm partners and solo practitioners find the perfect fit at another firm, which can make a dramatic difference in their career and personal satisfaction. Her superpower is being able to tell in 15 minutes whether a law firm partner would be happier changing firms or if their current firm is the best fit.

A recovering lawyer herself, Jen knows how busy law firm partners are, and how Jen received her J.D. from New York University School of Law and her undergraduate degree from Brandeis University, magna cum laude. After practicing law for 12 years, she realized that legal recruiting combined her two passions of law and matchmaking. She worked with a full-service New Jersey legal recruiting firm for 10 years, before following her dream and launching Gillman Strategic Group in 2018.

Outside of work she enjoys spending time with her lawyer husband and two children.

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://happyrainmakers.com/

https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Steve Fretzin, business development coach and author, about how lawyers and professionals can overcome common pitfalls that prevent them from building a strong book of business. Steve explains that business development is often treated as a secondary responsibility, leading many professionals to neglect the habits and strategies necessary for long-term growth. He emphasizes that successful rainmakers don’t just "fit in" business development—they structure their schedules and priorities to make it a non-negotiable part of their routine.

Key topics include the biggest challenges professionals face in business development, such as poor time management, lack of accountability, and resistance to delegating non-essential tasks. Steve shares practical strategies for tracking time, identifying low-value activities that should be eliminated or outsourced, and structuring a written business development plan with clear goals and action steps. He also discusses how professionals can shift from reactive to proactive business development, using networking, referrals, and thought leadership to create consistent opportunities. Additionally, Steve highlights the importance of having a coach or mentor to hold professionals accountable and refine their strategies. This episode provides actionable steps for professionals looking to take control of their business development efforts and create a predictable, sustainable stream of new clients.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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Acting as a kind of “business development therapist,” Steve Fretzin coaches and trains lawyers the most modern-day business development skills, providing precise tips, fresh ideas and actionable tasks that drive tangible results.

The host of the BE THAT LAWYER podcast, Steve has been featured in the Chicago Tribune, Crain’s and Entrepreneur.com and has appeared on NBC News and WGN Radio. He has written three books on legal business development, is a regular contributor to the Chicago Daily Law Bulletin and has published articles in Attorney at Law magazine, the National Law Review, the American Bar Association and the Illinois State Bar Association.

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://www.fretzin.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevefretzin/

https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Clinton Gary, founder of Credo Consulting, about how professional services firms can accelerate collaborative growth to maximize firm-wide success. Clinton explains that most law firms and consulting firms struggle to leverage their collective capabilities effectively, often operating in silos rather than as cohesive teams. He emphasizes that true collaboration isn’t accidental—it must be intentionally orchestrated by firm leadership through strategy, culture, and structure. By fostering an environment where professionals actively seek out and leverage firm-wide resources, organizations can create multiplicative value for clients, professionals, and the firm itself.

Key topics include the difference between collegiality and collaboration, why a firm’s culture must prioritize proactive teamwork over passive cooperation, and how leaders can structure incentives, processes, and technology to encourage collaboration. Clinton shares strategies for breaking down silos, improving internal knowledge-sharing, and creating a structured business development system that engages professionals at every level. He also discusses the role of leadership in orchestrating collaboration, how to implement practice group effectiveness initiatives, and why law firms that embrace collaboration are more successful in retaining talent and growing client relationships. This episode provides a practical roadmap for firm leaders looking to unlock the full potential of their teams through a structured, strategic approach to collaboration.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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Clinton Gary, Founder of CREDO Consulting, guides law firms and coaches' lawyers to achieve Collaborative Growth by growing strategically and collaborating effectively. With over 25 years of experience in strategy and business development at leading Am Law firms and global organizations, he is a recognized industry leader. Clinton’s expertise and award-winning approach drive sustainable success. Visit www.credocg.com

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/clintongary/

https://credocg.com/

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Lynn Tellefsen Stehle, a law firm marketing and business development expert, about how to improve lawyer engagement in business development. Lynn shares insights from her extensive experience in legal marketing, emphasizing that successful business development requires a shift in mindset, structured systems, and leveraging individual strengths. She explains that many attorneys struggle with business development because it’s not a skill taught in law school, and some feel uncomfortable with the idea of self-promotion. However, by focusing on relationship-building and providing value, lawyers can engage in business development in an authentic and effective way.

Key topics include how law firms can structure their teams for business development success, the importance of assigning roles based on individual strengths, and how firms can support lawyers through training, coaching, and technology. Lynn discusses how law firm leaders can create a culture of collaboration, ensuring that attorneys feel supported rather than pressured in their business development efforts. She also explores how firms can use modern CRM and data-driven marketing strategies to track and enhance business development outcomes. Additionally, she shares insights on how firms can use business development as a recruiting tool to attract lateral partners, emphasizing that rainmakers are drawn to firms with strong business development infrastructure. This episode provides practical strategies for law firms looking to increase engagement, improve business development results, and create a sustainable growth strategy.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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“My journey began in legal technology, where I spent 15 years developing and marketing IP software systems and services. Later, as the head of marketing and business development for three AmLaw 100 firms, I helped lead growth initiatives that resulted in profitable expansion, leveraging technology to enhance productivity, and strengthening of key client relationships.

“Throughout my career, I've excelled at developing highly responsive and effective marketing and business development operations and initiatives,  coaching lawyers in business development, tailoring strategies to their individual strengths and firm cultures. I've consistently implemented successful initiatives that have profitably expanded and strengthened the business. My "superpower" is the ability to effectively coach and engage lawyers by meeting them where they are at to help them chart their unique pathway to growth.

“Today, as the head of Client Collaboration at Nexl, I help law firms find better ways to grow. By leveraging Nexl’s platform, I help our clients to adapt modern tech to expand lawyer engagement, participation in business development, and marketing activities that lead to stronger client relationships and profitable new business.

“I'm passionate about bridging the gap between legal services and technology, helping firms overcome change management challenges and embrace modern tech for growth. If you're interested in discussing legal marketing trends, innovative business development strategies, interested in how modern technology can transform law firm operations, let's connect!”

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/lynntell/

[email protected]

https://go.nexl.cloud/rainmakerconfidential

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Chuck Curtis, former Senior Director of Attorney Recruiting at Pillsbury and now a management consultant, about how to recruit and retain top-tier rainmakers. Chuck shares insights from his decades-long experience in law firm recruiting, explaining that rainmakers are not just top billers—they are business advisors who deeply understand their clients' needs and build high-performing teams. He emphasizes that attracting and keeping these elite professionals requires strategic alignment, leadership involvement, and a firm culture that supports their growth.

Key topics include why successful rainmakers move firms, the factors that motivate them—such as better platform support, increased growth opportunities, and stronger team incentives—and how firms can position themselves as the ideal destination for these high-impact partners. Chuck discusses how law firm leaders can play a direct role in recruiting rainmakers, why compensation alone is not enough, and how to structure offers that appeal to both the individual and their team. He also shares best practices for integrating lateral partners successfully, ensuring they feel supported and aligned with firm leadership from day one. This episode provides valuable strategies for firms looking to attract and retain top-tier legal rainmakers while avoiding the common pitfalls that cause them to look elsewhere.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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Chuck Curtis offers consulting and coaching services to law firms:

* Developing and executing effective partner hiring strategies and initiatives

* Aligning firm leadership, practice section leaders, and partner recruiting leaders and teams in most effectively identifying winning partner hiring strategies, including firm branding, and implementing them in the marketplace

* Assessing and improving partner hiring teams

* Creating a positive firm culture around hiring and retaining lateral partners

* Developing a written framework for new partner integration, beginning during the interview process

* Providing one-on-one integration coaching to new partners to optimize their successful integration, including onboarding their existing clients and maximizing their exposure to current firm clients and attorneys

* Providing one-on-one coaching to law firm Chiefs, Directors and Managers regarding how to excel in their roles and provide maximum value to their firms while maintaining personal balance

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-curtis-7461a39/

[email protected]

https://clcurtis31consulting.com/

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with David Greer, entrepreneur, coach, and author of Wind in Your Sails, about how professionals can 10X their business development efforts by identifying and leveraging industry secrets. David explains that standing out in a competitive market requires more than just being slightly better than the competition—it requires a transformational approach that makes switching to your services a no-brainer for clients. He emphasizes that professionals must examine their entire business development process, from first client interaction to service delivery, to uncover hidden opportunities for differentiation and value creation.

Key topics include how to identify and expose industry secrets—the inefficiencies or weaknesses competitors don’t want clients to see—and how to build a strategy that makes your offering significantly better than alternatives. David shares real-world examples of companies that achieved a 10X competitive advantage, from improving responsiveness and service delivery to leveraging technology for instant results. He also discusses how professionals can break free from industry norms, develop unique client experiences, and implement small strategic changes that lead to exponential business growth. This episode provides practical strategies for professionals looking to rethink their approach, create standout client experiences, and maximize their impact in the market.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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While still in university getting his degree in computer science, David joined Robelle Solutions Technology as the first employee after the founders. After joining Robelle, he got permission from his 4th year professors to take a week off so he could fly to an international conference to give his first ever technical presentation.

During David’s tenure as co-owner and President of Robelle, he traveled the world giving a new presentation every year, building Robelle into the world’s leading provider of HP 3000 solutions. He is a co-author of The IMAGE/3000 Handbook, the reference work for the HP 3000 IMAGE database management system.

After leaving Robelle, David has been an angel investor, director, and senior executive to numerous companies always working 1-on-1 with entrepreneurs to grow their business. In 2015, he became an entrepreneurial coach and launched his book Wind In Your Sails: Vital Strategies to Accelerate Your Entrepreneurial Growth. Spend one hour reading Wind In Your Sails, attend a one hour talk with him, or get one hour of 1-to-1 coaching and you will have 3 concrete action items that will shift and accelerate your business within 90 days.

In his spare time, David enjoys the beauty, water, and mountains of the Vancouver area, while taking occasional adventure breaks with his wife, Karalee. David and Karalee are committed to their three children, spending time supporting them in the many and varied activities they are involved with, including skiing together as a family in Whistler.

When not writing books, coaching, or speaking, you might find David hiking, skiing, or sailing across oceans.

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://coachdjgreer.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidgreer/

Buy David’s book here:

Wind In Your Sails: Vital Strategies That Accelerate Your Entrepreneurial Growth

https://www.amazon.com/WIND-YOUR-SAILS-Strategies-Entrepreneurial-ebook/dp/B00TRPZW3O/

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Larry Levine, author of Selling in a Post-Trust World, about how professionals can build authentic relationships and establish trust in an increasingly skeptical marketplace. Larry explains that trust is the currency of sales and business development, yet many professionals struggle to earn it due to broken promises, inconsistent follow-through, and transactional approaches. He introduces a structured formula for building trust, emphasizing that successful rainmakers prioritize authenticity, meaningful value, and disciplined habits to create long-term client relationships.

Key topics include the four pillars of the trust formula: Authentic Relationships (AR), Meaningful Value (MV), Inspirational Experiences (IE), and Disciplined Habits (DH). Larry discusses how professionals can build deeper relationships by understanding client goals, adding unique business insights, and showing consistency over time. He also shares how creating inspirational client experiences—not just delivering services—helps differentiate professionals in competitive industries. Additionally, Larry provides powerful questions professionals can ask clients to uncover deeper needs and build long-term loyalty. This episode delivers practical, high-impact strategies for professionals looking to improve trust, deepen client engagement, and elevate their rainmaking approach.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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Larry Levine is an author, podcast host, and speaker for organizations who wish to grow their sales revenue. You can listen to his podcast https://www.sellingfromtheheartpodcast.com/ and connect with him on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/larrylevine1992/

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://sellinginaposttrustworld.com/

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Jacob Parks, business strategist and author of Never Say Sell, about the anatomy of a rainmaking organization and how firms can build a culture of business development excellence. Jacob explains that while many professional service firms rely on a few standout rainmakers, the most successful organizations embed business development into their structure, incentives, and culture. He emphasizes that firms should shift from focusing on individual sales stars to creating a scalable system where every partner and leader contributes to growth.

Key topics include the biggest institutional barriers to rainmaking success, such as misaligned incentives, lack of cross-selling between partners, and underutilized technology tools like CRM systems. Jacob shares strategies for breaking down silos within firms, improving collaboration between practice areas, and leveraging AI and automation to streamline business development. He also discusses the importance of training new partners in sales and networking skills, how to use rainmaker panels to transfer knowledge, and why measuring and incentivizing business development contributions can drive firm-wide success. This episode provides practical insights for firm leaders looking to improve collaboration, increase revenue, and create a sustainable rainmaking culture.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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President of Strategy for PIE, Jacob Parks is the author of Never Say Sell, a guide to how professional firms expand their business with key clients. His expertise includes partner remuneration and incentive plans, account planning, trigger of engagement, and how to expand a brand to include new service offerings, new industries, or new geographies. He has led client teams for McKinsey, Accenture, and KPMG among others. He leads The PIE Professional Services CMO and CGO network and is a graduate of Gonzaga’s MBA program, having previously taught undergraduate business students.

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-parks/

https://www.profitableideas.com/about/meet-our-team/jacob-parks/

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Mo Bunnell, author of Give to Grow, about how investing in relationships is the key to long-term business success. Mo explains that successful rainmakers don’t just focus on closing deals—they prioritize helping others, building trust, and creating genuine connections. He shares insights from his research on high-performing business developers, emphasizing that the top rainmakers are not just a little better—they are often 10 times more successful than the average professional because they consistently take action and focus on adding value to others.

Key topics include the five biggest mental barriers that hold professionals back—such as fear of rejection, perfectionism, and feeling too busy—and how to overcome them by shifting mindset and taking consistent action. Mo introduces the “It’s always your move” principle, which encourages professionals to proactively add value and maintain client relationships rather than waiting for opportunities to come to them. He also shares the four gifts of relationship-building: attention, understanding, wisdom, and clarity, explaining how professionals can apply these principles in business development to strengthen trust and increase referrals. This episode provides a practical roadmap for professionals looking to enhance their networking, business development, and client engagement strategies.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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Mo Bunnell helps complex organizations grow by scaling business development skills across their organizations and creating a growth-oriented culture. He is the author of Give to Grow, The Snowball System, the host of the podcast Real Relationships Real Revenue, and the founder of Bunnell Idea Group (BIG), who has trained tens of thousands of professionals. BIG’s clients have used Mo and his team’s GrowBIG® training to give their experts a system for growth that creates deep relationships, gives a comprehensive business development framework, and dare we say, is fun to use. Mo started his career as an expert himself, passing all the actuarial exams to earn their highest designation: Fellow of the Society of Actuaries. Today, Mo enjoys working with hundreds of clients including some of the largest, most prestigious service-based organizations. Mo and his wife of over 30 years, Becky, enjoy spending time with their friends and two adult daughters. Outside of work he enjoys working out, backpacking, and playing ultimate frisbee at the national and world levels. Becky and Mo live in Atlanta Georgia with their four horses, two cats, dog, bird and miniature donkey, Louie Hamilton.

Mo Bunnell offered seats to his seminar to the first five who request them. You can email Scott Love about this and he will forward your request to Mo Bunnell's team.  [email protected]

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mobunnell/

https://bunnellideagroup.com

https://bunnellideagroup.com/givetogrow/

www.givetogrow.info

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In this episode of The Rainmaking Podcast, host Scott Love speaks with Kathy Richardson, legal recruiter and well-being advocate, about the importance of mental, emotional, and physical well-being for rainmakers. Kathy shares insights from her experience working with lawyers and professionals who face intense pressure to perform, explaining that success in business development is directly tied to personal well-being. She emphasizes that professionals often neglect their health—mentally, emotionally, physically, financially, and even spiritually—while chasing career success, leading to burnout, dissatisfaction, and decreased effectiveness.

Key topics include how well-being affects business performance, the dangers of "grind culture" and overwork, and the signs professionals should watch for that indicate their well-being is suffering—such as dreading Monday mornings or feeling constantly drained. Kathy shares practical self-care strategies, including daily meditation, mindful work environments, and maintaining strong social connections to create balance. She also discusses how professionals can align their career choices with their personal happiness and how firms can support inclusion, belonging, and well-being initiatives. Additionally, Kathy introduces her lawyer wellness retreats, which combine yoga, meditation, and career coaching to help professionals reset and refocus. This episode provides actionable steps for professionals looking to protect their well-being while excelling in business development.

Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/

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Kathryn Holt Richardson is an award-winning legal recruiter and Founder of HR Legal Search, a national search firm based in Austin recognized by Texas Lawyer as a Texas Best Legal Recruiting Firm since 2011. Kathy specializes in placing law firm partners and groups. She also supports office openings and mergers. She has successfully placed hundreds of lawyers across the country including NYC, DC, LA, Chicago and the Bay area. She is also successfully retained by companies to find in-house talent at every level including General Counsel.

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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link:

https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathryn-holt-richardson-6111a62/

https://www.hrlegalsearch.com/about/kathryn-richardson/

https://www.hrlegalsearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Fall2021-Featured-Article-Kathy-Richardson.pdf

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