Emily Stedman is a commercial litigation partner at Husch Blackwell LLP in Milwaukee, where she handles complex business disputes from pre-suit negotiation through trial and appeal. With more than a decade of experience in practice, Emily brings both Big Law credibility and a practical understanding of what it takes to build a successful legal career without burning out. In addition to her litigation work, she is a nationally recognized advocate for lawyer well-being, known for her candid speaking, writing, and thought leadership on the mental health realities of modern legal practice. She has been recognized by Best Lawyers in America, Super Lawyers Rising Stars, and Corporate Counsel for her influence and leadership in the profession, including a Women, Influence, and Power in Law Award in the Mental Health and Well-Being Initiative category. She has also served on the Wisconsin Task Force on Lawyer Well-Being.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LAW FIRM LEADERSHIP AND LAWYER WELL-BEING

Lawyer well-being is often treated as something individual attorneys have to manage on their own. Lawyers are told to set boundaries, manage stress, ask for help, and keep going. That advice may be useful, but it only goes so far when lawyers are also making assumptions about availability, visibility, and what it really takes to succeed inside a demanding law firm.

Emily Stedman is not arguing that Big Law should stop being demanding or that lawyers can build ambitious careers without working hard. Her point is more practical. If law firms want talented lawyers to stay, leaders need to be more honest about how sustainable careers are actually built, including the different ways lawyers can meet expectations, exercise autonomy, and model a life inside the profession that others can realistically imagine for themselves.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Emily Stedman of Husch Blackwell LLP about lawyer well-being as a leadership issue, the assumptions lawyers make about availability and visibility, the generational tensions around boundaries, and why leaders need to tell the truth about how they actually work.

3:22 - Why Emily started speaking openly about lawyer well-being

6:12 - Lateraling to Husch Blackwell and practicing more authentically

7:45 - What Emily changed about how she worked after joining a new firm

9:33 - Building a sustainable Big Law career while still meeting firm expectations

12:08 - The mindset shifts lawyers need before setting better boundaries

16:39 - What law firm leaders get right and wrong about well-being

19:43 - Why lawyer well-being does not mean avoiding hard work

21:23 - Why well-being requires better management conversations inside law firms

24:22 - The connection between everyday well-being, burnout, and mental health crises

29:07 - The one concrete thing law firm leaders can do to make a difference

34:14 - How leaders model autonomy, control, and sustainable careers for others

MENTIONED IN WHAT LAW FIRM LEADERS NEED TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT LAWYER WELL-BEING

Husch Blackwell LLP | LinkedIn

Emily Stedman | LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

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SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Travis Armstrong is the Chief Operating Officer of English, Lucas, Priest & Owsley, also known as ELPO, the largest full-service law firm in South Central Kentucky. He has managed the operations of the firm for 21 years, after beginning his career in public accounting and later serving as a CFO in the insurance industry. Travis holds both a CPA and Certified Legal Manager designation and has overseen finance, operations, facilities, HR, and marketing as the firm has grown. He is also the immediate past president of the Association of Legal Administrators, the premier international professional association for legal management professionals, and has made mental health and well-being in the legal profession a personal priority. Outside of work, Travis is an avid outdoorsman who enjoys hiking, kayaking, and running, and has completed six marathons.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LAW FIRM LEADERSHIP AND OPERATIONS

There is someone inside your firm who sees things that may never make it into the managing partner's inbox. They see the operational strain, the succession gaps, and the cultural undercurrents that affect how the firm actually runs. Yet in many law firms, the people managing the business side are still treated as support instead of strategic leadership.

That gap creates real risk. Firms may have plans for transitioning client relationships, but far fewer have thought through what happens when the COO, firm administrator, or another long-tenured business professional leaves. There is also a cost to doing nothing, from attorney time spent figuring out administrative systems to culture problems that quietly affect productivity, retention, and mental health.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Travis Armstrong of English, Lucas, Priest & Owsley about what law firm COOs see that leaders often miss, why operational succession planning matters, how mental health affects the whole firm, and what it means to look at and listen to your culture.

2:33 - How Travis moved from accounting and insurance into legal management

4:34 - Why law firms tend to adopt change more slowly than other industries

5:25 - What the Association of Legal Administrators does for law firm business professionals

10:05 - How managing partners can get more value from their COO or firm administrator

13:14 - How Travis's role evolved from firm administrator to COO as the firm grew

14:17 - Why operational succession planning is a blind spot for law firms

19:00 - The cost of doing nothing when an operational leader retires

21:23 - Why difficult succession conversations are worth having early

23:11 - What the ALA survey revealed about mental health resources in the legal profession

25:16 - Why legal administrative professionals often lack access to the same mental health resources as lawyers

27:45 - How ALA's mental health first aid training helps legal professionals spot warning signs

31:00 - Why law firm leaders need to look honestly at their culture

34:19 - The business case for supporting mental health in law firms

35:25 - Why attorneys need to listen to administrative staff and trust their judgment

Mentioned In What Happens When Lawyers Actually Listen to Their COO

English, Lucas, Priest & Owsley, LLP | LinkedIn

Travis Armstrong on LinkedIn

Association of Legal Administrators

ALA Mental Health First Aid Training

Amanda Koplos | How Legal Administrators Help Unlock Your Law Firm's Potential

Retirement by Design - Ida Abbott Consulting LLC

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Steve Barham is the president and managing shareholder of Chambliss Bahner & Stophel, PC, a law firm based in Chattanooga, Tennessee. A graduate of the University of Virginia School of Law, Steve has practiced in Chattanooga since 1998 and joined Chambliss in 2004. His litigation practice focuses primarily on healthcare and commercial business matters, and he now splits his time between leading the firm and representing clients. Before becoming firm president in 2025, Steve served as the firm's general counsel, advising on ethics, risk management, and professional responsibility. He serves on the Board of Legal Aid of East Tennessee, was appointed by the Tennessee Supreme Court to serve as an interviewer for Tennessee Bar applicants, and helped build the Stophel Scholars Program, an endowment supporting exceptional students at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT LEADING WITH INTEGRITY AS THE LEGAL PROFESSION CHANGES

Law firm leadership is changing fast, and the pressure is not only coming from technology. New business models, client expectations, and generational shifts are forcing leaders to think carefully about what should change and what should be preserved. Steve Barham's answer is rooted in the values that made the profession worth entering in the first place, including integrity, service, and the lawyer's role as a trusted advisor.

Those values have to show up in the actual work of leading a firm. They shape how leaders work through conflict, how they protect relationships, how they talk to younger lawyers about the future of practice, and how they keep learning instead of assuming they already have the answers. For Steve, leading well means staying open to change without losing sight of the profession's larger obligations to clients, communities, and the rule of law.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Steve Barham of Chambliss Bahner & Stophel about what is worth preserving in the legal profession, how lawyers can remain trusted advisors as technology changes the work, why service matters to the rule of law, and what it means to lead with integrity when the pressure to compromise is real.

2:32 - Steve's path from firm general counsel to managing shareholder

4:31 - Why interpersonal relationships are the backbone of a law firm

7:46 - Consolidation, technology, and changing client expectations for midsize firms

8:11 - Looking for opportunity instead of reacting from fear

10:08 - Staying focused on client service and relationships

11:00 - Why AI will change the work but not the trusted advisor role

13:12 - Teaching younger lawyers that business development is relationship-based

16:21 - Servant leadership and helping lawyers build careers they are proud of

19:01 - The books shaping Steve's thinking on business development and meaning

21:43 - What it means to maintain law as an honorable profession

27:07 - Walking the talk as a law firm leader

29:33 - Finding meaning outside the law through service

MENTIONED IN LEADING WITH INTEGRITY AS THE LEGAL PROFESSION CHANGES

Chambliss Bahner & Stophel, PC. | LinkedIn Steve Barham on LinkedIn

The Activator Advantage

The Meaning of Your Life by Arthur Brooks

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

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SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Ryan Lockman is the managing partner of Horn Williamson & Collins, a mid-sized construction and commercial litigation law firm in Philadelphia and Delaware. A trial lawyer representing homeowners in residential construction defect and consumer protection disputes throughout Pennsylvania and New Jersey, Ryan has secured more than $20 million in verdicts and arbitration awards, including a $3.2 million jury verdict for homeowners in a construction defect trial. He earned his MBA from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania, which informs his approach to law firm management, operational efficiency, and long-term strategic growth. Most recently, Ryan developed Construction Defect University, an AI-assisted internal training platform built using Claude Code to provide more structured onboarding and practice-specific training for attorneys and paralegals.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT ATTORNEY TRAINING

Law firms have long relied on observation-based training, with younger lawyers learning by sitting in meetings, listening to experienced attorneys talk through cases, and gradually figuring out how the work gets done. But as Ryan Lockman explains, that kind of ad hoc training only goes so far when new attorneys and paralegals need to understand the terminology, client communication expectations, and litigation process before the work starts to make sense.

At Horn Williamson & Collins, Ryan started addressing that gap by creating more structure inside the firm, including team leaders, internal CLEs, and clearer benchmarks for how attorneys and paralegals should stay on top of cases and communicate with clients. From there, he built Construction Defect University, an AI-assisted internal training platform designed to give new attorneys and paralegals more practice-specific training.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Ryan Lockman about why the old expectation that lawyers should "just figure it out" is breaking down, how structured training supports client service and talent retention, what Construction Defect University actually includes, and how he built it using Claude Code in less than 30 hours.

3:16 - Ryan's path from civil rights law to construction defect litigation

7:00 - How business school changed Ryan's approach to running a law firm

11:15 - Recognizing when an ad hoc training approach no longer works

14:37 - Why "hit the ground running" was never a reasonable expectation

16:23 - The connection between attorney training and talent retention

20:28 - Using incentives to help lawyers understand expectations

23:20 - Training team leaders to manage, mentor, and communicate

27:17 - How Ryan built an AI-assisted internal training platform

29:27 - Internal response to the platform and involving associates in the process

30:46 - What Construction Defect University includes for attorneys and paralegals

36:24 - Using AI as a substitute for hands, not brains

39:21 - Why leaders forget what new lawyers do not know

Mentioned In How One Managing Partner Is Rethinking Attorney Training From the Ground Up

Horn Williamson & Collins | LinkedIn

Ryan Lockman on LinkedIn

Claude Code

Microsoft Copilot

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Ivy Slater is the CEO of Slater Success, a boutique coaching and consulting firm working at the intersection of strategic growth and succession planning. Before becoming a coach and advisor, she built and sold a seven-figure business in New York City and has spent nearly two decades since working with leadership teams on the strategy, structure, and leadership development required for sustainable growth, with a particular focus on the legal sector. Ivy has guided companies through the leadership and cultural dynamics that shape whether growth, transition, or acquisition actually succeeds. Ivy is a TEDx speaker, host of the Her Success Story podcast, and author of The Best of the Best: Lead Boldly, Scale Rapidly, Create Your Legacy.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT SUCCESSION PLANNING AND LAW FIRM GROWTH

Law firm leaders who avoid succession planning rarely think of it as avoidance. The conversation feels like it belongs later, closer to retirement, or after the next growth milestone gets hit. So firms keep running on the assumption that the people at the top will always be there, and the planning that would actually protect the firm never quite makes it onto the agenda.

Ivy Slater argues that succession planning and strategic planning are the same conversation and that separating them produces short-term thinking at best. Firms that integrate succession into their growth strategy from the start are building something solid, something that can function and grow without depending on any one person to hold it together. That shift starts with how leaders think about succession itself, not as an exit, but as the foundation of a legacy.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman talks with Ivy Slater of Slater Success about why succession planning belongs inside the growth strategy, how to develop the next generation of leaders and rainmakers, what the numbers in your firm are actually telling you, and how to reframe succession from an end-of-career conversation into a strategy for long-term growth.

2:34 - Why firms treat strategic planning and succession planning as separate conversations

3:13 - Why separating succession from strategy produces short-term thinking

5:45 - The ego and fear that make succession planning feel threatening

9:14 - Succession planning means developing leaders, not just identifying successors

9:49 - How to know your people's strengths and develop them intentionally

13:39 - How Ivy's own business transition became a model for succession done right

17:54 - What firm leaders should actually be tracking

19:46 - Start every conversation with a success by focusing on what's working

23:43 - Reframing succession from exit planning to legacy building

27:28 - The real cost of waiting and what firms lose when they put this off

31:09 - Thinking 5 to 10 years forward and building a firm that lasts

35:58 - Why firm leaders need to read the storybook of numbers

Mentioned In From Why Succession Planning Is a Growth Strategy, Not a Retirement Issue

Slater Success | Her Success Story Podcast

The Best of the Best: Lead Boldly, Scale Rapidly, Create Your Legacy

Ivy Slater on LinkedIn

Rocket Fuel by Gino Wickman

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Michael R. Caplan is the Chief Operating Officer of Lowenstein Sandler, where he oversees the firm's business, financial, and administrative operations. Before joining Lowenstein, Mike served as COO at an Am Law 50 firm for nearly a decade and spent years leading legal operations at Goldman Sachs and Marsh McLennan, giving him a client-side perspective most law firm COOs simply don't have. With more than 25 years of experience across accounting, financial services, and consulting, he has worked with more than 30 general counsels on data analytics, technology implementation, and law firm relationship management. His leadership has earned him recognition as one of the Financial Times North America's top five Legal Intrapreneurs, Legal Innovator of the Year from The Changing Lawyer Awards, and a spot on NJBIZ's Law Power List for two consecutive years.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT HOW A CLIENT-FACING COO IS CHANGING THE BUSINESS OF LAW

Law firm COOs typically manage operations and execute on what firm leadership puts forward. They respond to partners, oversee administration, and stay behind the scenes while lawyers own every client relationship. Even when clients have their own operational counterparts who would benefit from connecting with their law firm's business professionals, those introductions rarely happen.

Michael Caplan has spent the last decade building a different model. At Lowenstein Sandler, he and his Business Enterprise Solutions Team work alongside lawyers in pitches, RFP negotiations, and client meetings, bringing expertise in pricing, technology, project management, and data analytics directly into the relationship. The approach requires internal trust, a firm culture that supports it, and the right people on both sides of the conversation. But when it works, clients get a partner that understands both the practice of law and the business of law, and the firm differentiates itself in ways that go beyond the legal work.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Michael Caplan of Lowenstein Sandler about what it looks like when business professionals are embedded in client development, how to build internal trust so lawyers bring operations leaders into client relationships, the financial discipline that separates good revenue from bad revenue, and where private equity and AI may reshape law firm operations in the years ahead.

2:43- How Mike's client-side experience at Goldman Sachs and Marsh McLennan shaped his approach

5:53 - Building the Business Enterprise Solutions Team (BEST) at Lowenstein

7:18 - Getting lawyers on board and building internal trust

8:55 - Showing wins to bring more lawyers into the model

9:27 - The financial side of the COO role and negotiating pricing with clients

12:49 - Where emerging partners need the most help on collections and client management

15:14 - What smaller and midsize firms should think about when building an operations team

20:02 - Non-lawyer ownership, private equity, and the MSO model in law firms

22:26 - AI, legal technology, and why firms that invest in business resources will be more profitable

27:22 - Why most COOs wouldn't do this podcast and what holds firms back

33:31 - What clients actually get from a firm that embeds operations into relationships

36:19 - Getting the right people in front of the right clients

Mentioned in How a Client-Facing COO is Changing the Business of Law

Lowenstein Sandler | LinkedIn

Michael Caplan on LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Jim Pattillo is a litigation partner and litigation practice group chair at Christian & Small, a law firm based in Alabama and Mississippi. With more than 20 years of trial experience and over 70 trials to verdict, Jim represents insurers and corporate clients in high-stakes litigation and is frequently called in for complex, high-exposure matters. In addition to his practice, Jim plays a key role in the firm's growth and talent development efforts, with a strong focus on training younger lawyers, building high-performance teams, and creating a culture of accountability and excellence. He also holds a master's degree in mass communication from the University of Florida, giving him a unique perspective on how legal strategy, client communication, and business development intersect. Jim is a frequent speaker and writer on litigation strategy, trial readiness, and law firm leadership.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT SCALING A LITIGATION PRACTICE

Law firms say associates are their most important resource, but many are still treating them primarily as billing units. Work gets pushed down with no relationship behind it, and younger lawyers are left figuring things out by asking another associate or a paralegal how a partner likes things done. That might keep files moving, but it doesn't build the kind of lawyers clients ask to have on their next case.

Jim Pattillo's litigation group at Christian & Small went from three associates to roughly 15 in about four years, across three offices. That growth required more than hiring. It meant making partners accessible, helping associates understand not just the work but the business behind it, and being intentional about training rather than expecting people to pick it up by osmosis. From Monday morning team meetings to monthly associate lunches to a review process where associates tell the firm what they think they need, the investment is planned, tracked, and measured.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Jim Pattillo of Christian & Small about what real investment in younger lawyers looks like, why work product quality is the best business development tool, how to maintain consistency across a growing litigation team, and what law firm leaders miss about the connection between culture and profitability.

2:09 - The false dichotomy between culture and profitability

4:16 - Why younger lawyers need to be in the office to learn

5:42 - What drove the firm's growth from 3 associates to 15

6:51 - Being intentional about training, not just hiring

11:37 - Why work product quality is your best business development tool

13:30 - How AI changes the associate role without replacing it

15:22 - The constant pull between producing and leading

19:16 - What equity partners need to understand about profitability

20:19 - The rule of thirds and helping associates see themselves as assets

25:28 - Hiring for soft skills and letting lawyers be themselves

27:56 - What associates actually need from their firms

MENTIONED IN SCALING A LITIGATION PRACTICE WITHOUT LOSING WHAT MAKES IT WORK

Christian & Small, LLP | LinkedIn

Jim Pattillo on LinkedIn

Marcie Borgal Shunk and Sona Spencer | The Death of Apprenticeship: What it Means for Lawyers and Law Firms

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

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SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Katya Jestin is a partner at Jenner & Block and co-chair of the firm's investigations, compliance, and defense practice. A former federal prosecutor, Katya represents companies, universities, executives, and boards in high-stakes criminal, regulatory, congressional, and internal investigations, particularly in sensitive and crisis-driven matters. From 2020 to 2024, she served as Jenner & Block's co-managing partner, helping lead the firm during a period of significant change and uncertainty for the legal profession and the broader business world.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT VALUES-DRIVEN LEADERSHIP IN BIG LAW

Lawyers who step into leadership roles quickly discover that technical excellence isn't enough. Whether they're managing a practice group, leading a firm, or navigating a high-stakes investigation, the pressure to protect what's already working can push decision-making toward fear and self-preservation. That instinct feels safe, but it tends to produce the worst outcomes.

The alternative takes more nerve. It means grounding decisions in values even when the short-term economics are uncertain, building culture around teams instead of individual credit, and being willing to model vulnerability in environments that have traditionally rewarded the opposite. It also means treating mentorship as something you do, not something you talk about, by creating real opportunities for the people coming up behind you.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Katya Jestin of Jenner & Block about making values-based decisions under real pressure, why team-based culture outperforms individualism in law firms, how being underestimated can become a strategic advantage, and what effective mentorship looks like beyond words.

2:49 - Taking over as co-managing partner on January 1, 2020

3:35 - Making difficult decisions through values, not fear

6:10 - Why the worst decisions come from a place of fear

7:27 - Shifting from individualism to teamwork and why "teams crush individuals every time"

11:06 - The vulnerability panel at the partners retreat

12:43 - Growing up underestimated and the power of kindness and grit

14:25 - Why being underestimated is disarming and how it produces better outcomes

17:11 - Mentoring through vulnerable, closed-door conversations

19:00 - Mentoring through action, not just words

22:09 - Why fear-based thinking leads to terrible decisions at every level

24:46 - Instilling institutional values in the next generation without sacrificing standards

28:37 - The curse of knowledge: never be afraid to ask questions

Mentioned In Katya Jestin | Why Values-Driven Decisions Pay Off in Law Firm Leadership

Jenner & Block | LinkedIn

Katya Jestin on LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Marcie Borgal Shunk is the founder and president of The Tilt Institute and creator of Leadership Foundations, a high-impact virtual program designed to give law firms essential leadership skills and practical solutions. For nearly three decades, she has worked with more than 3,000 law firm leaders on talent, culture, and leadership, helping dozens of AmLaw firms anticipate and prepare for the future of law. A Harvard graduate, Marcie holds two fellowships, four certifications in culture and coaching, and several board advisory positions. She is a frequent contributor to the American Lawyer, Thomson Reuters, and Bloomberg Law.

Sona Spencer is the Chief Legal Talent Officer at Troutman Pepper Locke, where she leads the firm's legal recruiting, professional development, inclusion, and career coaching functions. Drawing from more than 15 years of experience in AmLaw 50 firms, she collaborates closely with firm stakeholders to implement training, compensation frameworks, and inclusion and retention strategies that ensure the firm can attract and retain talent at all levels to exceed client service goals.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT THE DEATH OF APPRENTICESHIP IN LAW FIRMS

The apprenticeship model built generations of lawyers, and for a long time it worked. Junior associates learned by proximity, absorbing how to think and practice by working alongside more experienced attorneys over the course of years. Hybrid work, lateral mobility, and generational shifts in how people learn have quietly dismantled that model, and many firms are still operating as though it's intact.

Addressing the problem requires more than plugging holes. Firms need to rethink how they signal investment in their people, build structured pathways that make expectations explicit, and develop the human and leadership skills that AI cannot replicate. The firms getting this right have moved beyond standalone training programs and created systems where talent can see the path, understand what's expected, and take an active role in their own development.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Marcie Borgal Shunk of The Tilt Institute and Sona Spencer of Troutman Pepper Locke about why the apprenticeship model is failing, what the most forward-thinking firms are doing differently, how AI is reshaping the skills lawyers need to develop, and where firm leaders should start if they want to make a real change.

2:38 - The origin of "The Death of Apprenticeship" article

4:08 - Why hybrid work and generational differences are breaking down the model

7:08 - Why what made senior lawyers successful may not work for the next generation

8:07 - Lateral mobility and compensation wars as added pressure on retention

10:45 - Making the business case for talent development

13:27 - Breaking down the true cost of replacing an associate

15:13 - AI and the risk of outsourcing junior associate learning

19:08 - The human skills firms need to be building deliberately

22:13 - Executive presence and how lawyers show up on camera and in rooms

27:07 - Why leaders have to model what they teach

29:34 - How Troutman Pepper Locke's YOUniversity achieved 75% participation in year one

32:02 - Benchmarks, Learning Management System (LMS) integration, and self-directed development paths

34:48 - Takeaways for smaller firms without large Learning & Development resources

38:44 - Starting small with pilots and building intentionally

41:26 - Don't assume your path is everyone's path

43:36 - Clear communication and moments of kindness

Mentioned In The Death of Apprenticeship: What it Means for Lawyers and Law Firms

Marcie Borgal Shunk on LinkedIn | The Tilt Institute

Sona Spencer on LinkedIn | Troutman Pepper Locke

The Death of Apprenticeship: Reimagining Law Firm Talent Strategy for a New Era

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

Estelle Winsett is a former litigation attorney who now works as a style strategist for women in law. After seven years practicing law and more than a decade in legal professional development, she saw firsthand how perception, presence, and visibility influence who is trusted with leadership roles, client relationships, and partnership opportunities. Today, Estelle helps women lawyers align their outward presence with their expertise so they can show up with confidence, authority, and authenticity in courtrooms, boardrooms, and business development settings. Through speaking, consulting, and private styling, she teaches women how strategic personal style can support credibility, leadership presence, and professional growth.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT PERSONAL STYLE AND CREDIBILITY FOR LAWYERS

Before a lawyer says a word in a room, others are already forming an impression. That assessment happens fast, and personal style is doing more work in that moment than most lawyers realize. It is the first nonverbal communication, and, like any form of advocacy, it can either work for you or against you.

The lawyers who understand this treat style as a tool rather than an afterthought. A signature look builds the know, like, and trust factor over time. Clothes that fit and feel right reduce the mental energy that quietly drains confidence before the day even starts. And an outward presentation that reflects who a lawyer actually is today, rather than who they were earlier in their career, opens doors that strong work alone may not.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Estelle Winsett, a former litigation attorney and style strategist for women in law, about how personal style functions as a tool of advocacy, why the shift to business casual has created new challenges for lawyers at every level, how to develop a signature style that builds the know, like, and trust factor, and what practical steps lawyers can take to align their appearance with their authority.

2:49 - Why style transformation is about more than the clothes themselves

4:37 - Style as a tool of advocacy that works for you or against you

5:25 - How business casual has created new challenges for lawyers at every level

9:15 - What a signature style is and why it builds the know, like, and trust factor

13:17 - Why your wardrobe needs to evolve as your career does

15:38 - The halo effect and the science behind first impressions

20:41 - Defining the message you want your wardrobe to send

22:39 - Investment pieces versus trends and how to balance both

25:45 - Adding personality through accessories without overhauling your style

29:41 - The hidden mental energy cost of an unsolved wardrobe problem

32:01 - Fit is the single most important factor in how you present yourself

MENTIONED IN ESTELLE WINSETT | HOW LAWYERS BUILD CREDIBILITY BEFORE THEY SAY A WORD

Estelle Winsett Consulting | LinkedIn

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