The Lawyer's Edge

Katya Jestin is a partner at Jenner & Block and co-chair of the firm's investigations, compliance, and defense practice. A former federal prosecutor, Katya represents companies, universities, executives, and boards in high-stakes criminal, regulatory, congressional, and internal investigations, particularly in sensitive and crisis-driven matters. From 2020 to 2024, she served as Jenner & Block's co-managing partner, helping lead the firm during a period of significant change and uncertainty for the legal profession and the broader business world.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT VALUES-DRIVEN LEADERSHIP IN BIG LAW

Lawyers who step into leadership roles quickly discover that technical excellence isn't enough. Whether they're managing a practice group, leading a firm, or navigating a high-stakes investigation, the pressure to protect what's already working can push decision-making toward fear and self-preservation. That instinct feels safe, but it tends to produce the worst outcomes.

The alternative takes more nerve. It means grounding decisions in values even when the short-term economics are uncertain, building culture around teams instead of individual credit, and being willing to model vulnerability in environments that have traditionally rewarded the opposite. It also means treating mentorship as something you do, not something you talk about, by creating real opportunities for the people coming up behind you.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Katya Jestin of Jenner & Block about making values-based decisions under real pressure, why team-based culture outperforms individualism in law firms, how being underestimated can become a strategic advantage, and what effective mentorship looks like beyond words.

2:49 - Taking over as co-managing partner on January 1, 2020

3:35 - Making difficult decisions through values, not fear

6:10 - Why the worst decisions come from a place of fear

7:27 - Shifting from individualism to teamwork and why "teams crush individuals every time"

11:06 - The vulnerability panel at the partners retreat

12:43 - Growing up underestimated and the power of kindness and grit

14:25 - Why being underestimated is disarming and how it produces better outcomes

17:11 - Mentoring through vulnerable, closed-door conversations

19:00 - Mentoring through action, not just words

22:09 - Why fear-based thinking leads to terrible decisions at every level

24:46 - Instilling institutional values in the next generation without sacrificing standards

28:37 - The curse of knowledge: never be afraid to ask questions

Mentioned In Katya Jestin | Why Values-Driven Decisions Pay Off in Law Firm Leadership

Jenner & Block | LinkedIn

Katya Jestin on LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress. To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Marcie Borgal Shunk is the founder and president of The Tilt Institute and creator of Leadership Foundations, a high-impact virtual program designed to give law firms essential leadership skills and practical solutions. For nearly three decades, she has worked with more than 3,000 law firm leaders on talent, culture, and leadership, helping dozens of AmLaw firms anticipate and prepare for the future of law. A Harvard graduate, Marcie holds two fellowships, four certifications in culture and coaching, and several board advisory positions. She is a frequent contributor to the American Lawyer, Thomson Reuters, and Bloomberg Law.

Sona Spencer is the Chief Legal Talent Officer at Troutman Pepper Locke, where she leads the firm's legal recruiting, professional development, inclusion, and career coaching functions. Drawing from more than 15 years of experience in AmLaw 50 firms, she collaborates closely with firm stakeholders to implement training, compensation frameworks, and inclusion and retention strategies that ensure the firm can attract and retain talent at all levels to exceed client service goals.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT THE DEATH OF APPRENTICESHIP IN LAW FIRMS

The apprenticeship model built generations of lawyers, and for a long time it worked. Junior associates learned by proximity, absorbing how to think and practice by working alongside more experienced attorneys over the course of years. Hybrid work, lateral mobility, and generational shifts in how people learn have quietly dismantled that model, and many firms are still operating as though it's intact.

Addressing the problem requires more than plugging holes. Firms need to rethink how they signal investment in their people, build structured pathways that make expectations explicit, and develop the human and leadership skills that AI cannot replicate. The firms getting this right have moved beyond standalone training programs and created systems where talent can see the path, understand what's expected, and take an active role in their own development.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Marcie Borgal Shunk of The Tilt Institute and Sona Spencer of Troutman Pepper Locke about why the apprenticeship model is failing, what the most forward-thinking firms are doing differently, how AI is reshaping the skills lawyers need to develop, and where firm leaders should start if they want to make a real change.

2:38 - The origin of "The Death of Apprenticeship" article

4:08 - Why hybrid work and generational differences are breaking down the model

7:08 - Why what made senior lawyers successful may not work for the next generation

8:07 - Lateral mobility and compensation wars as added pressure on retention

10:45 - Making the business case for talent development

13:27 - Breaking down the true cost of replacing an associate

15:13 - AI and the risk of outsourcing junior associate learning

19:08 - The human skills firms need to be building deliberately

22:13 - Executive presence and how lawyers show up on camera and in rooms

27:07 - Why leaders have to model what they teach

29:34 - How Troutman Pepper Locke's YOUniversity achieved 75% participation in year one

32:02 - Benchmarks, Learning Management System (LMS) integration, and self-directed development paths

34:48 - Takeaways for smaller firms without large Learning & Development resources

38:44 - Starting small with pilots and building intentionally

41:26 - Don't assume your path is everyone's path

43:36 - Clear communication and moments of kindness

Mentioned In The Death of Apprenticeship: What it Means for Lawyers and Law Firms

Marcie Borgal Shunk on LinkedIn | The Tilt Institute

Sona Spencer on LinkedIn | Troutman Pepper Locke

The Death of Apprenticeship: Reimagining Law Firm Talent Strategy for a New Era

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

Estelle Winsett is a former litigation attorney who now works as a style strategist for women in law. After seven years practicing law and more than a decade in legal professional development, she saw firsthand how perception, presence, and visibility influence who is trusted with leadership roles, client relationships, and partnership opportunities. Today, Estelle helps women lawyers align their outward presence with their expertise so they can show up with confidence, authority, and authenticity in courtrooms, boardrooms, and business development settings. Through speaking, consulting, and private styling, she teaches women how strategic personal style can support credibility, leadership presence, and professional growth.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT PERSONAL STYLE AND CREDIBILITY FOR LAWYERS

Before a lawyer says a word in a room, others are already forming an impression. That assessment happens fast, and personal style is doing more work in that moment than most lawyers realize. It is the first nonverbal communication, and, like any form of advocacy, it can either work for you or against you.

The lawyers who understand this treat style as a tool rather than an afterthought. A signature look builds the know, like, and trust factor over time. Clothes that fit and feel right reduce the mental energy that quietly drains confidence before the day even starts. And an outward presentation that reflects who a lawyer actually is today, rather than who they were earlier in their career, opens doors that strong work alone may not.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Estelle Winsett, a former litigation attorney and style strategist for women in law, about how personal style functions as a tool of advocacy, why the shift to business casual has created new challenges for lawyers at every level, how to develop a signature style that builds the know, like, and trust factor, and what practical steps lawyers can take to align their appearance with their authority.

2:49 - Why style transformation is about more than the clothes themselves

4:37 - Style as a tool of advocacy that works for you or against you

5:25 - How business casual has created new challenges for lawyers at every level

9:15 - What a signature style is and why it builds the know, like, and trust factor

13:17 - Why your wardrobe needs to evolve as your career does

15:38 - The halo effect and the science behind first impressions

20:41 - Defining the message you want your wardrobe to send

22:39 - Investment pieces versus trends and how to balance both

25:45 - Adding personality through accessories without overhauling your style

29:41 - The hidden mental energy cost of an unsolved wardrobe problem

32:01 - Fit is the single most important factor in how you present yourself

MENTIONED IN ESTELLE WINSETT | HOW LAWYERS BUILD CREDIBILITY BEFORE THEY SAY A WORD

Estelle Winsett Consulting | LinkedIn

Take Estelle's Style Quiz

Book a Style Discovery Call

Paula Edgar | How to Boldly Be YOU in Everything You Do

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress.

To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Niraj Chhabra is the founder of Sidebar Advisors, a financial planning firm dedicated exclusively to serving attorneys at every stage of their careers, from rising associates to equity partners. For more than 20 years, Niraj has helped lawyers navigate the financial complexity that comes with success, including partnership compensation, tax strategy, equity, retirement planning, and the competing demands of career growth and family life. Using a Behavioral Financial Advice approach, he works with attorneys to align their financial decisions with their values, helping them build wealth intentionally, reduce unnecessary stress, and create real optionality in both their careers and personal lives.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT TURNING LEGAL SUCCESS INTO FINANCIAL SECURITY

A high income does not automatically produce financial security. Attorneys who are billing at the top of their game can still find themselves financially stuck, sitting on too much uninvested cash, watching savings fall behind income, and putting off financial decisions because another billable hour always takes priority.

Getting ahead of that complexity requires more than good intentions. It means building systems that grow alongside income, understanding the financial dynamics specific to each stage of a legal career, and examining the behavioral patterns that shape how people make financial decisions long before they become lawyers.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Niraj Chhabra of Sidebar Advisors about why some high earners still feel financially stuck, how behavioral history shapes financial decisions, what many lawyers get wrong about building wealth, and the systems that make the difference over time.

2:32 - Why some high-earning lawyers still feel financially stuck

3:12 - How reversing the savings and checking account structure changes spending behavior

4:04 - The cost of leaving millions sitting in a savings account uninvested

5:38 - What makes financial planning for lawyers uniquely complicated

7:05 - What behavioral financial advice actually means

10:02 - Unpacking cultural and family background before making financial plans together

12:23 - How equity partnership changes the financial picture for lawyers

15:05 - Why some lawyers turn down partnership because their spouse doesn't understand the compensation structure

17:34 - Financial considerations across career transitions, from associate to partner to in-house to solo

22:02 - Why the retirement number looks different depending on how accounts are structured

27:00 - Gender-specific financial dynamics for women lawyers

33:03 - Practical habits that distinguish lawyers who build long-term wealth

35:13 - What to do first if you feel financially successful but uncertain about the bigger picture

37:30 - The money stories we carry and how they show up in financial behavior

MENTIONED IN TURNING LEGAL SUCCESS INTO FINANCIAL SECURITY

Sidebar Advisors | LinkedIn

Niraj Chhabra on LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

This episode is brought to you by the coaching team at The Lawyer's Edge, a training and coaching firm that has been focused exclusively on lawyers and law firms since 2008. Each member of the team is a trained, certified, and experienced professional coach—and either a former practicing attorney or a former law firm marketing and business development professional.

Whatever your professional objectives, our coaches can help you achieve your goals more quickly, more easily, and with significantly less stress.

To get connected with your coach, fill out our contact form.

Dennis Meador is the CEO of The Legal Podcast Network. DM has been an entrepreneur since he was a teenager, building businesses in everything from shoveling snow to SEO before finding his fit helping attorneys share their voices. A lifelong communicator from his years as a pastor to his more than 20 years in legal marketing, DM believes the best ideas don't come from selling, they come from conversations.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT HOW FAQ PODCASTS HELP LAWYERS DIFFERENTIATE

Eighty-two percent of people use the internet to find their attorney. They type in a search, get hundreds of results, and every lawyer looks the same. With no way to distinguish expertise, potential clients default to asking how much it costs. The legal profession has become commoditized, turning skilled attorneys into interchangeable service providers competing on price alone.

The solution isn't more traditional marketing. It's conversations. Founder-led, authentic content where lawyers answer the specific questions their ideal clients are asking. FAQ-style podcasts give attorneys the opportunity to demonstrate their expertise, show they understand client problems, and position themselves as the obvious choice before a prospect ever picks up the phone.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise talks with Dennis Meador of The Legal Podcast Network about why expertise needs to be visible to be valuable, how podcasting creates authority through conversations instead of sales tactics, what lawyers get wrong about giving away knowledge for free, and the multiple ways podcasts generate business beyond download numbers and ad revenue.

2:06 - Why 82% of clients search online and what that means for lawyer visibility

3:34 - How commoditization has driven down hourly rates over the past decade

6:51 - Founder-led, authentic marketing is what resonates with today's clients

8:14 - Why FAQ-format podcasts are the best way for lawyers to differentiate

10:33 - The two biggest objections lawyers have about sharing expertise publicly

13:36 - Why posting too much content won't chase away the clients you actually want

16:24 - Authority podcasts are designed to inform potential clients, not brag

18:21 - How to create a year's worth of evergreen podcast content

21:25 - Using patterns in client stories instead of specific confidential details

23:23 - The nuts and bolts of podcast ROI for lawyers

26:40 - Monetization strategies beyond ad revenue and sponsorships

33:23 - Turning 30 minutes of recording into a month of marketing content

35:29 - The curse of knowledge: explaining things like you're talking to an eight-year-old

37:03 - Cumulative learning and why repeating yourself actually delivers value

MENTIONED IN CONVERSATIONS AS AUTHORITY: HOW FAQ PODCASTS HELP LAWYERS DIFFERENTIATE AND ATTRACT CLIENTS

The Legal Podcast Network | LinkedIn

Dennis Meador on LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Adam Severson is the Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Baker Donelson, a leading national firm with more than 700 lawyers and 25-plus offices in the United States, primarily in the southeastern U.S. Adam's role is unique compared to many who hold that title in that he spends a lot of his time meeting with clients and actually selling the firm's services. Adam is a past president of the Legal Marketing Association and a Hall of Fame member. He's also a Fellow in the College of Law Practice Management.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT EXECUTIVE PRESENCE

Executive presence can seem hard to define. Many people think you either have it or you don't. But Adam Severson frames it differently. When you walk into a room or lead a pitch meeting, others are asking themselves whether they can take you seriously and whether you instill confidence. That assessment happens fast, and it's based on more than just what you say.

The lawyers who are best at client development aren't necessarily the ones trying to be the smartest or most interesting person in the room. They're the ones who show up prepared, ask thoughtful questions about what's actually happening in a client's business, and then follow through when they promise to find an answer. Adam calls that gap between what people say they will do and what they actually do the "say-do gap." Closing it builds trust faster than almost anything else, and most people never even realize they're leaving it open.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman talks with Adam Severson about what executive presence actually looks like in law firms, why imposter syndrome stops people from even trying to develop it, and how lawyers can build credibility through preparation and genuine curiosity rather than trying to have all the answers.

2:09 - How Adam defines executive presence

3:16 - The three elements of executive presence

5:26 - Executive presence vs. confidence and whether you can have one without the other

6:22 - Practical behaviors to demonstrate executive presence

8:53 - Being interested in others matters more than being interesting

10:27 - Using data to build credibility with lawyers and practice groups

15:07 - How executive presence impacts business development and client retention

15:32 - The "say-do gap" and why following through on what you promise matters

21:10 - Imposter syndrome keeps people from trying to develop executive presence

22:14 - The perfectionism problem and why you don't need all the answers

25:07 - Lessons learned from Adam's own career building executive presence

28:20 - Modifying the approach by showing your work instead of just stating the conclusion

30:38 - Don't make assumptions about who you're talking to

34:06 - Why self-awareness matters more than confidence

Mentioned in Executive Presence: How to Turn Skill into Influence

Baker Donelson | LinkedIn

Adam Severson on LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Abby Remore is a member at Chiesa Shahinian & Giantomasi (CSG Law) in Roseland, New Jersey, where she leads the firm's trademark and copyright practice group. Her practice focuses on protecting brands and creative works through litigation, enforcement, clearance, counseling, licensing, and prosecution of trademark and copyright applications. She has particular expertise litigating trademark and copyright disputes in federal courts and before the Trademark Trial and Appeal Board. Abby is president-elect of the New Jersey Women Lawyers Association.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT BUILDING CAREER AUTONOMY AS A LAWYER

Saying yes to every opportunity, volunteering for committees, and being the person others can count on helps associates build strong reputations and advance toward partnership. Once lawyers make partner, the job description changes. They're expected to continue producing excellent work while also developing business, leading teams, and contributing to firm management. Without recalibrating, the habits that earned the promotion can quickly become overwhelming.

The transition requires intentional choices about what work means and how time gets allocated. Business development stops being something that happens when there's time left over and becomes a core responsibility. Delegation shifts from losing control to creating capacity for higher-value work. Stepping back from committees and saying no becomes necessary instead of optional.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise talks with Abby Remore, an alumna of the inaugural Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator cohort, about making the partnership transition successfully. They discuss redefining what counts as work, learning when to say no, why business development requires the same intentionality as billable work, and how lawyers can build careers that reflect their own values instead of copying someone else's blueprint.

2:52 - How Abby ended up in law without planning to be a private practice lawyer

7:11 - The challenge of transitioning from associate to leader and business generator

10:13 - How the job shifts when you make partner and why saying yes stops working

15:36 - What motivated Abby to join the Ignite program

18:01 - The biggest mindset shift: business development isn't just networking events

21:28 - Why BD and leadership development are about mindset, not just tactics

22:30 - The apprenticeship model is dying: why outside programs matter

25:49 - Staying intentional as an emerging rainmaker and avoiding old habits

28:26 - Changing your job description to include business development

31:30 - The curse of knowledge: advice for lawyers building their own vision of success

Mentioned In Own Your Career: How Intentional Choices Create Autonomy for Lawyers

Chiesa Shahinian & Giantomasi (CSG Law) | LinkedIn

Abby Remore on LinkedIn

New Jersey Women Lawyers Association

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Dawn Anderson is the Chief Human Resources Officer at Butler Snow LLP, a law firm with nearly 400 lawyers across 25 offices. With more than 30 years of HR experience and both an MBA and law degree from the University of Georgia, Dawn brings a unique perspective to law firm leadership.

After two decades in HR leadership roles in retail and manufacturing, Dawn transitioned to the legal industry where she now oversees Butler Snow's HR function and operations. She has taught as an adjunct professor teaching college-level courses and facilitating countless training seminars on leadership, management, and human resources. She is also an active member of the Atlanta Association of Legal Administrators, where she previously served as board member and chapter president.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT STRATEGIC HR LEADERSHIP

Law firms often treat HR as a cost center or an administrative function that handles paperwork, processes bonuses, and deals with employee issues when they come up. But there's often a disconnect between what HR professionals actually do and how lawyers value that work. Administrative leaders get kept out of important conversations, even when those decisions directly affect people and performance.

When HR leadership operates strategically and lawyers work with the professionals who understand people management, things change. Compensation systems become transparent and defensible instead of feeling like a black box. People get prepared for leadership roles instead of being promoted and left to figure it out. And firms make smarter decisions about retention, hiring, and succession planning because the work gets more intentional instead of reactive.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise Holtzman is joined by Dawn Anderson to discuss building credibility as an HR leader in a law firm, why lawyers sometimes undervalue the work administrative professionals do, and how strategic people management changes both culture and business results.

2:49 - Dawn's journey from chemical engineering to HR with a JD and MBA

6:37 - Why lawyers sometimes undervalue administrative professionals

8:33 - Taking five years to get into the bonus process at her previous firm

9:33 - Creating a defensible bonus system in hours instead of days

14:42 - Building trust and credibility with attorneys using The First 90 Days approach

17:31 - The challenge of recruiting legal assistants in today's market

21:30 - Pairing experienced legal assistants with new attorneys as a training tool

24:18 - What "revenue enablers" means and why language matters

26:39 - Change management without the corporate jargon

28:28 - Getting the right people in the right seats

30:30 - Preparing people for partnership instead of just promoting them

33:32 - Why investing in people beats losing them to firms that will

38:04 - HR is everyone's job, not just HR's job

MENTIONED IN HOW STRATEGIC HR TRANSFORMS LAW FIRM PERFORMANCE

Butler Snow LLP | LinkedIn

Dawn Anderson on LinkedIn

The First 90 Days by Michael D. Watkins

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Stacy Ackermann is the global managing partner of K&L Gates, one of the world's leading law firms with more than 45 offices across the globe. A trailblazing leader and accomplished finance lawyer, Stacy brings a rare blend of strategic vision, authenticity, and deep industry insight to her position. Drawing on her extensive experience advising on complex transactions and a long track record in key leadership roles, she's shaping the future of the legal profession with a focus on innovation, collaboration, and inclusive leadership.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT RAINMAKING AND IMPACTFUL LAW FIRM LEADERSHIP

Many lawyers see business development and firm leadership as entirely different skill sets—rainmaking on one side, management on the other. But attorneys who have done both often discover the gap isn't as wide as it looks. The same strengths that build a thriving book of business—deep relationships, engaged teams, and a genuine understanding of client needs—are the very ones that fuel effective leadership.

Stacy Ackermann never set out to become managing partner of K&L Gates. She wanted to work on deals, serve clients, and grow her practice. But she also couldn't sit on the sidelines when important decisions were being made. That tension between wanting to focus on the work and needing to be at the table shaped everything about how she leads today.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge, Elise speaks with Stacy about her path from summer clerk to leading 1,700 lawyers across 45 offices worldwide. They discuss building teams through relationships, why disagreement strengthens trust when there's mutual respect, how compensation structures can encourage collaboration, and why her closing advice is both simple and hard—take a risk on yourself.

2:57 - Why Stacy never raised her hand for leadership but couldn't stay on the sidelines

5:38 - Building a team isn't about delegation, it's about investing in relationships

8:05 - What loan workouts taught her about taking problems apart and putting them back together

10:27 - Why respectful disagreement from regional managing partners is actually good feedback

13:20 - Learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable as the path to growth

17:35 - Why AI won't replace lawyers

19:35 - The mini MBA program for second-year associates learning the business of law

22:13 - The lateral market is eye-opening and makes your head spin

24:28 - Why first-year classes have gotten smaller and what that means for partner capital

27:26 - How compensation structure encourages collaboration across offices

32:01 - Bringing the voice of the client into every management committee meeting

36:03 - If you're going to take a risk, take a risk on yourself

Mentioned In A Focus on Relationships: The Real Key to Rainmaking and Impactful Leadership

K&L Gates | LinkedIn

Stacy Ackermann on LinkedIn

Smart Collaboration and Smarter Collaboration by Dr. Heidi Gardner

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.

Elise Buie is the founder and CEO of Elise Buie Family Law in Seattle, Washington. After losing everything in Hurricane Katrina, she rebuilt her life and career from scratch, bringing lessons in resilience and New Orleans hospitality to her practice.

Elise is a passionate and creative family law attorney who has lived the life you're living now, juggling the endless tasks of a lawyer and law firm owner while dreaming of something better. She grew her firm from six figures to multiple seven figures, navigating the pandemic and intentionally scaling back to ensure the firm operates with healthy numbers and a culturally aligned team.

WHAT'S COVERED IN THIS EPISODE ABOUT BUILDING A PROFITABLE LAW FIRM WITHOUT BURNING OUT YOUR TEAM

Most law firms measure success by billable hours and revenue growth. But what if the path to profitability runs through shorter workweeks, lower billable targets, and generous budgets for client gifts?

Elise Buie grew a family law practice from six figures to multiple seven figures while implementing policies that sound counterintuitive. Attorneys bill around 1,200 hours annually. Paralegals work 30-hour weeks while getting paid for 40. Team members receive bonuses for "unreasonable hospitality" rather than billing more hours. The firm maintains 30% profit margins with a three-times return on investment per employee, proving that you don't need to run your team into the ground to build a successful practice.

In this episode of The Lawyer's Edge podcast, Elise Holtzman speaks with Elise Buie about building a profitable law firm without sacrificing what matters most, including how to delegate effectively, why emotional intelligence is critical in family law, and what it really takes to create a culture where people bring their best selves to work.

2:32 - Rebuilding after Hurricane Katrina and how COVID tested the firm

5:39 - What unreasonable hospitality means and why it matters

8:49 - Why the firm bonuses people for client delight, not billable hours

11:48 - Hiring for alignment and emotional intelligence

13:30 - Why the firm turns away most applicants to find the right fit

16:56 - How the firm stays profitable with attorneys billing 1,200 hours a year

18:09 - Running the business by the numbers while keeping reduced hours

21:30 - Where the business knowledge came from (hint: lots of studying)

23:04 - Why daily data dashboards reveal problems before they become crises

26:14 - Why delegated work doesn't have to be perfect to be valuable

Mentioned In Scaling With Soul: Building a Profitable Law Firm Without Burning Out Your Team

Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara

Elise Buie Family Law Group | LinkedIn

Elise Buie on LinkedIn

Get connected with the coaching team: [email protected]

The Lawyer's Edge

SPONSOR FOR THIS EPISODE

Today's episode is brought to you by the Ignite Women's Business Development Accelerator, a 9-month business development program created BY women lawyers for women lawyers. Ignite is a carefully designed business development program containing content, coaching, and a community of like-minded women who are committed to becoming rainmakers AND supporting the retention and advancement of other women in the profession.

If you are interested in either participating in the program or sponsoring a woman in your firm to enroll, learn more about Ignite and sign up for our registration alerts by visiting www.thelawyersedge.com/ignite.