The Rainmaking Podcast

By Scott LoveBusiness Entrepreneurship Marketing

The Rainmaking Podcast episodes

November 05TRP 353: The Psychology of Pricing: Why Professional Services Firms Underprice and How to Fix It with Etinosa Agbonlahor
Would you pay $20 for an umbrella? What about $100 on your way to your most important client meeting? Same umbrella, different context, and that is the psychology of pricing.
Etinosa Agbonlahor is a behavioral economist and CEO of Decision Alpha, a behavioral pricing firm that helps businesses improve pricing for growth, traction, and stronger perceived value. In this first-ever pricing episode on the Rainmaking Podcast, she joins Scott Love to explain why most professional services leaders set their rates by guessing, and what to do instead.
What you’ll learn:
Why context changes what clients are willing to pay, and what the umbrella test reveals about your own pricing

The four building blocks of a price: cost floor, willingness-to-pay ceiling, alternatives, and price framing

How to map “monetization zones” and research what different client groups will actually pay

Why your real competitor may be ChatGPT, not the firm down the street

The three dimensions of value (functional, emotional, and aspirational) and how reputation and cachet fit in

Why every proposal should include at least two options

What to do if you’re priced near the bottom but don’t want to signal lower quality

How the fear of rejection quietly drives underpricing

A case study: how a solo law firm used fixed fees and a subscription plan to grow revenue beyond her own billable hours and smooth out a summer slump

The spotlight effect: why your clients aren’t watching your rates with a magnifying glass

3 action steps to evaluate and change your pricing with confidence
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/kgarRTU1IjE
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://attorneysearchgroup.com/schedule
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
📅 Monthly webinars for transactional partners: RainmakingSeminars.com
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This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Etinosa Agbonlahor:
Etinosa Agbonlahor is a behavioral economist and CEO of Decision Alpha, a behavioral pricing firm that helps businesses improve pricing for growth, traction, and stronger perceived value. With over a decade of global experience across the U.S., Australia, Africa, and the U.K., she has shaped pricing, engagement, and customer-behavior strategy for major financial institutions and venture-backed startups. Her work has been featured in MarketWatch, Morningstar, and other leading platforms for her insights on how behavior drives financial outcomes. She is also the author of How to Talk to Your Parents About Money, a guide to navigating complex financial conversations.

Links:
playbook.decisionalpha.co
fred.decisionalpha.co

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27 min
October 29TRP 352: The Trust Recession: How to Grow Your Practice with Trust-Based Selling with Ari Galper
Every two weeks, the business development tactics top lawyers use are free at therainmakingmagazine.com
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He was on the best sales call of his life. An hour in — love fest, no resistance, everyone a decision maker. Then he accidentally hit mute instead of hang up. And heard the truth.
“We’re not going to go with him. Keep using him for more information and make sure we shop someplace else cheaper.”
That moment launched Ari Galper’s entire philosophy — and it’s why he’s now recognized as the global authority on trust-based selling.
Ari Galper is the author of seven best-selling books including Trust In A Split Second and Unlock The Sales Game, featured in Forbes, Fast Company, and CEO Magazine, and creator of the One Call Sale framework. In this episode, he returns to the Rainmaking Podcast to break down the trust recession, the doctor-patient model, and the exact language that collapses a long sales cycle into a single honest conversation.
What you’ll learn:
The full story of the mute button moment that changed everything about how Ari thinks about business development

What the Trust Recession is — and why your prospects are shopping you as a commodity right now

Why “hopium” is the most dangerous drug in professional services — and how to detox from it

The doctor-patient mental construct: how to stop selling and start diagnosing

Why rapport-building before trust is built is actually working against you

The One Call Sale model step by step: from “nice to meet you” to onboarding — in a single meeting

The COI framework: why “cost of inaction” matters more than ROI in a first conversation

Why the phrase “I’m okay either way” is one of the most powerful sentences in business development

Replace “follow up” with “feedback” — and the other language shifts that signal trust immediately

3 action steps to start building trust from your very next conversation
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/buN8wM_DKjA
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://attorneysearchgroup.com/schedule
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
📅 Monthly webinars for transactional partners: RainmakingSeminars.com
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This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Ari Galper:
Ari Galper is recognized as the global authority on trust-based selling, the author of seven best-selling books, and a thought leader featured in CEO Magazine, Inc., Fast Company, and Forbes. His unique trust-based approach, tested and refined over two decades, collapses sales cycles rapidly through his signature One Call Sale framework. He also hosts a monthly live streaming show called “Stump The Guru” available on YouTube and Spotify.

📘 Free Book: Trust In A Split Second — TheTrustBook.com
🎙️ Podcast/Show: Stump The Guru — YouTube & Spotify

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31 min
October 22TRP 351: Practicing Law at the Speed of Light with Dr. Larry Richard
Every two weeks, the business development tactics top lawyers use are free at therainmakingmagazine.com
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Nine out of ten lawyers score in the bottom half of resilience. That’s not an opinion — it’s 32 years of personality data from over 10,000 lawyers. Dr. Larry Richard is the researcher who found it, and he wrote the book on what to do about it.
Dr. Larry Richard holds a J.D. from Penn Law and a Ph.D. in Psychology from Temple University. He’s spent three decades studying lawyer personality and is the author of the new book Thin-Skinned: Why Lawyers Are So Low in Resilience, and the New Science That Can Help. In this episode, he joins Scott Love to break down the seven atypical personality traits that define lawyers — and the evidence-based framework that can help them manage stress, raise resilience, and thrive in a profession that’s changing at unprecedented speed.
What you’ll learn:
The 7 atypical personality traits that make lawyers exceptional at their work — and vulnerable in their lives

Why 90% of lawyers consistently score in the bottom half of resilience — and why that number hasn’t moved in 32 years

Why empathy in lawyers (and people under 40 generally) is declining — and what it’s connected to

What sociability really means — and why lawyers average at the 12.5th percentile

The catastrophizing spiral: how one associate’s mistake became a tent in a park in her mind — and what that reveals about low resilience

Why personality traits are more genetic than social — and the crucial exception: resilience, skepticism, and empathy can actually be changed

The three-legged stool of the brain: how thoughts, feelings, and actions are chemically linked — and how changing one changes all three

Why positive emotions aren’t soft — they chemically neutralize the damage from the negative hormones lawyers produce all day

50+ evidence-based resilience strategies organized into four practical buckets

3 action steps to start building your resilience practice today
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/HKir95XRnFk
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://attorneysearchgroup.com/schedule
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
📅 Monthly webinars for transactional partners: RainmakingSeminars.com
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This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Dr. Larry Richard:
Larry Richard, J.D., Ph.D., is widely recognized as the leading expert on the psychology of lawyer behavior and a trusted authority on improving performance in law firms and legal departments through behavioral science. He works with legal organizations to enhance organizational effectiveness, capitalize on strengths, and bring out the best in their people by applying research-based insights into how lawyers think, behave, and respond to change.
Dr. Richard is a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania Law School (J.D.) and practiced as a litigator before earning his Ph.D. in Psychology from Temple University. Over the course of his career, he has collected and analyzed personality data on thousands of lawyers and has consulted with hundreds of premier law firms and corporate legal departments on complex behavioral challenges, including building psychological resilience; coaching and developing leaders; managing unprecedented change; developing talent strategy; and fostering lawyer well-being.

Link:
LawyerBrain.com

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29 min
October 15TRP 350: Value Creation Through Strategic Alliances with Kyle Harkema
Every two weeks, the business development tactics top lawyers use are free at therainmakingmagazine.com
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Most strategic alliances look perfect on paper. Six months in, they’re falling apart — and nobody knows why.
Dr. Kyle Harkema is the author of Strategic Clarity: The Practical Method for Transforming Vision into Results and a scholar-practitioner with a doctorate in business administration. In this episode, he joins Scott Love to break down why alliances fail — and the exact behavioral framework leaders need to build partnerships that actually deliver.
What you’ll learn:
Why alliances fail even when the strategic logic is sound — and what’s really going wrong

The one sentence that reveals whether your alliance is ready: “Because we’re working together, our customer can now ___”

The 5 trust-building questions every alliance must answer before work begins

Why lagging KPIs (revenue, EBITDA) are the wrong place to start — and what leading indicators to watch instead

The warning signs that a partnership is breaking down: multiplying meetings, slowing decisions, and information that stops flowing cleanly

When and how to structure revenue share, licensing, or a joint venture spin-off

Why a contract preserves the friendship — and how to structure one that holds up when priorities conflict

How to identify the right alliance partner: complementarity, incentive compatibility, and behavioral alignment

The “set it and forget it” trap — and why every alliance needs a semi-annual check-in at minimum

3 action steps: define your joint value proposition, build a strategic decision framework, and measure the behaviors that create value
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/_E7xsyl4xa0
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://attorneysearchgroup.com/schedule
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
📅 Monthly webinars for transactional partners: RainmakingSeminars.com
----------------------------------------
This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Kyle Harkema:
Kyle Harkema is the author of Strategic Clarity: the practical method for transforming vision into results. This book is a research-backed diagnostic mirror that decodes how your company truly thinks, listens, and acts. Because strategy lives in behavior—not plans.
Dr. Kyle Harkema, DBA, MBA, is a distinguished scholar-practitioner with a wealth of experience at the intersection of academia and industry. With an academic foundation built on rigorous study and research, combined with extensive practical experience in the business world, Dr. Harkema epitomizes the modern scholar-practitioner—a professional who not only understands theoretical frameworks but also knows how
to apply them in real-world contexts.

Links:
https://www.kylejharkema.com/
https://www.youtube.com/@KyleJHarkema
https://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Clarity-Practical-Transforming-Results/dp/B0GSSFW28Z/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2JLLWIRMP1RUR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.UR4TNoOVMfqJ_fvS4GMcOBOoA1bE6XarRTdlIr2fLZ4.7bK32nKomY_dIBRWCAAvsOJGqGgJfdVkX6xM0FIBQN4&dib_tag=se&keywords=strategic+clarity+harkema&qid=1791577862&sbm=true&setroute=search&sprefix=strategic+clarit%2Caps%2C148&sr=8-1

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25 min
October 13TRP 349: The Transactional Partner’s BD Advantage: How Corporate, Finance & Real Estate Lawyers Win More Business with Ryan Grelecki
Every two weeks, the business development tactics top lawyers use are free at therainmakingmagazine.com
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Corporate, finance, and real estate partners have a business development advantage most of them never fully leverage. Ryan Grelecki is here to change that.
Ryan Grelecki is a global consultant and master GrowBIG® facilitator at Bunnell Idea Group — one of the most respected BD consulting firms in the legal industry. In this episode, he joins Scott Love for a webinar built specifically for transactional lawyers: deal lawyers, corporate partners, finance and real estate attorneys who are ready to turn their built-in advantages into a real business development system.
What you’ll learn:
Why transactional lawyers have 4 structural BD advantages that litigators simply don’t have

The mere exposure effect: why frequency of contact is one of the most powerful forces in relationship-building

Who to target in every deal — not just clients, but strategic partners who become referral engines

The “protomoi” framework: how to identify the 5–10 relationships most critical to your practice growth

Why a face-to-face ask is 34x more effective than email — and how to use that inside every deal

White space analysis: how to mine your existing clients for work you’re not getting yet

What “earned dogmatism” is — and why becoming an expert can actually close you off to growth

The give-to-get investment: how to design a low-risk, high-value experience that earns the right to ask for work

The 4 C’s of conference attendance: Clarity, Connect, Converse, Commit — and why 75% of the work happens before you arrive

How to build BD habits that survive busy seasons — the MIT framework and the no-zero-days system

3 action steps for transactional partners ready to build a real pipeline
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/MIsxplvDHuU
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://attorneysearchgroup.com/schedule
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]

📅 Monthly webinars for transactional partners: RainmakingSeminars.com
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This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Ryan Grelecki:
Ryan C. Grelecki, J.D., is a global consultant and master GrowBIG® facilitator & coach at Bunnell Idea Group, where he helps professionals in the legal, consulting, insurance, and other industries build the skills to grow client relationships and win new business. He specializes in designing relationship-focused, give-first BD curricula and 1:1 executive coaching experiences that turn technical experts into confident rainmakers.

Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryangrelecki/
https://bunnellideagroup.com/

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32 min
October 08TRP 348: After a Merger: How to Build Trust and Collaboration with Dr. Heidi Gardner
Every two weeks, the business development tactics top lawyers use are free at therainmakingmagazine.com
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Most law firm mergers fail to deliver on their promise. Not because the financials were wrong — but because nobody did the cultural due diligence.
Dr. Heidi Gardner is a Distinguished Fellow at Harvard Law School, former Harvard Business School professor, McKinsey consultant, and author of two best-selling books — Smart Collaboration and Smarter Collaboration — both published by Harvard Business Press. She leads Gardner & Co., a research and advisory firm that helps professional services leaders turn collaboration into client growth. In this episode, Dr. Gardner joins Scott Love to break down exactly why post-merger trust and collaboration fail — and what leaders must do differently before, during, and after a combination.
What you'll learn:
Why mergers fail more often than not — and what "working" actually means from a client's perspective

The cultural due diligence most firms skip entirely — and the data you should be asking to see before signing

The two flavors of trust that are both essential for collaboration: competence trust and character trust

Why homophily — the instinct to affiliate with your own tribe — is the silent killer of post-merger integration

How to use data to identify collaboration leaders vs. islands — before and after a merger

Why "not every dollar is a good dollar" — and what a sticky, strategic dollar actually looks like

The difference between leading and lagging indicators of merger success — and which ones to track quarterly

Why hero-worship success stories backfire — and the less sexy story that's actually more valuable to tell

What the Smarter Collaboration Profile psychometric reveals about partnership blind spots and bifurcated cultures

Why law firms absolutely do not invest enough in leadership development — and what that costs them

3 action steps: visit SmartCollaboration.com, get curious about your clients, and examine your collaboration network
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/td3QJm__7Ig
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://attorneysearchgroup.com/schedule
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
----------------------------------------
This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Dr. Heidi Gardner:
Dr. Heidi Gardner authored two best-selling books Smart Collaboration and Smarter Collaboration, published by Harvard Business Press. A Distinguished Fellow at Harvard Law School, she was previously a professor at Harvard Business School, a consultant at McKinsey & Co., and manager at P&G. She presently leads the research and advisory firm Gardner & Co., and has lived and worked on four continents. She helps professional service firm leaders turn collaboration into client growth and sustained performance.

Links:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/heidi-k-gardner-ab5b825/
smartercollaboration.com
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=smarter+collaboration&crid=3AHLKBDCRF21B&sprefix=smarter+collaboration+%2Caps%2C122&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

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32 min
October 06TRP 347: Career Assessment for Law Firm Partners with Scott Love
Every two weeks, the business development tactics top lawyers use are free at therainmakingmagazine.com
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Every year, around bonus and distribution season, law firm partners ask themselves the same question: is it time to make a move?
In this solo cast, Scott Love — legal recruiter with 30+ years in the industry and specialist in corporate and finance partner placements — walks through the 10-category career assessment framework he uses with partners every day. If you've ever wondered whether your current firm is still the right fit, this episode gives you a structured, honest way to think it through.
What you'll learn:
The 10 categories that determine whether a partner should consider a move — from leadership confidence to long-term personal fulfillment

Why most partners leave for one of two reasons — and how to identify which one applies to you

The 1–10 satisfaction scale: what a six or below actually means for your next step

Why "I'm not asking you to leave — I'm asking you to have a 30-minute conversation" is the right frame

The "rule it out, then rule it in" approach to evaluating another firm without overcommitting

How to use a personal journal to track your diligence at each round without losing perspective

Why the most important question isn't which firm pays more — it's which firm is best for your clients

What the LPQ process actually looks like — and how Scott's team helps partners navigate it

The free resource at partnersonthemove.com: flowcharts, quizzes, ethics guidance, compensation info, and more — no registration required

When to reach out to Scott directly — even if you're not sure you're looking
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/erxMA31lttg
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://attorneysearchgroup.com/schedule
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
----------------------------------------
This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Scott Love:
Scott Love is a legal recruiter solely focused on recruiting corporate and finance partners for global law firms in major markets. He is the host of The Rainmaking Podcast, co-author of Rainmaker Confidential, and speaks professionally at conferences on sales, client development, and recruiting.
📘 Book: Rainmaker Confidential — RainmakerConfidential.com
📖 Rainmaking Magazine: free complimentary subscription at TheRainmakingMagazine.com
🎓 Free Webinars: RainmakingSeminars.com
🌐 Free resource for partners: partnersonthemove.com — no registration required

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21 min
October 01TRP 346: The Rainmaker's Voice: How Professionals Turn Expertise into Trust with Paul Marchegiani
Every two weeks, the business development tactics top lawyers use are free at therainmakingmagazine.com
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You can have the best legal mind in the room and still lose the pitch. What separates the attorneys who win business from those who don't often has nothing to do with the quality of their work — and everything to do with how they show up.
Paul Marchegiani is the founder and CEO of Vox Vera®, a performance skills consultancy that trains lawyers, executives, and public figures in presence, voice, and spoken communication. A former BigLaw litigator, 15-year Hollywood dealmaker at Warner Bros., NBCUniversal, Miramax, and Amazon Studios, trained opera singer, actor, and the only U.S. lawyer to hold a P.R.A. teaching certification from Patsy Rodenburg, Emeritus Director of Voice at the Royal Shakespeare Company — Paul brings a perspective on communication that no one else in the legal world can.
What you'll learn:
Why legal training produces brilliant writers and analytical thinkers — and what it costs them in a pitch room

What clients are actually evaluating when law firms present (it's not just the law)

Why introvert vs. extrovert is the wrong frame — and what to think about instead

What Paul learned negotiating 1,000+ deals in Hollywood that applies directly to legal business development

How tensions in the body become credibility leaks — and how to spot and release them

What presence actually is (and why the Royal Shakespeare Company's approach changes everything)

Why getting in your head about how you're coming across is the worst thing you can do while speaking

The CEO nonprofit case study: one session, one board presentation, and feedback they'd never received before

Why poetry has a place in the practice of law — and how working with heightened language makes you a better communicator

3 action steps to start developing your Rainmaker's voice right now
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/XRXsJ_maA7Y
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Paul Marchegiani:
Paul Marchegiani ("mar-keh-JAH-nee") is a Los Angeles-based performance coach, former in-house entertainment lawyer and BigLaw litigator, and Founder/CEO of Vox Vera® — a premium performance skills consultancy that trains lawyers, executives, and public figures in presence, voice, and spoken communication. Prior to launching Vox Vera, Paul worked for over 15 years in Hollywood as a client-side studio executive at Warner Bros., NBCUniversal, Miramax, and Amazon Studios. He began his legal career as a litigator at Orrick and Morrison & Foerster after receiving his J.D. from U.C. Berkeley. Paul is an experienced stage performer and the only U.S. lawyer and senior business executive to hold a P.R.A. teaching certification from Patsy Rodenburg, Emeritus Director of Voice at the Royal Shakespeare Company. He teaches communication skills at Stanford Law School, Berkeley Law, and the University of Chicago Law School.

Links:
https://www.voxvera.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulmarchegiani/

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28 min
September 29TRP 345: Lateral Partner Hiring & Integration with Shireen Hilal
Every two weeks, the business development tactics top lawyers use are free at therainmakingmagazine.com
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Half of all lateral partner hires don't last. That's not a recruiting problem. It's a vetting, compensation, and integration problem — and most law firms are making the same mistakes at every stage.
Shireen Hilal is the CEO of Maior and a former COO of a national law firm where she drove +20% revenue and +30% profits per partner. She's also a former AmLaw 50 litigator and has led strategy for a $1B division at KPMG. In this Sometimes Tuesdays episode, Shireen joins Scott Love to break down exactly why lateral partner hiring goes wrong — and what firms and candidates can do differently.
What you'll learn:
Why the LPQ (lateral partner questionnaire) is not enough — and what you need to do instead

How to assess the real portability of a book of business (hint: headline revenue is the last thing to look at)

Why cultural fit isn't a soft factor — and how to assess it with the same rigor as financials

The "coloring in the lines vs. entrepreneurial" framework for diagnosing cultural misalignment before it happens

What actually comes out at dinner vs. a 45-minute Zoom — and why in-person matters for expensive hires

Why confirmation bias derails lateral hiring decisions — and a simple fix that adds real data

What the onboarding vs. integration distinction means — and why giving someone a password is not integration

The trend Shireen is hoping becomes standard: tying a sponsoring partner's year-end metrics to the success of their lateral hire

What candidates should ask that no one thinks to ask — including talking to a recently acclimated lateral partner

3 action steps across vetting, comp, and integration to immediately improve your lateral hiring outcomes

Free resource: Shireen's one-sheet of the right late-stage questions to ask — reach out to her directly via the show notes
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/z5ZdvcjrdA8
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
----------------------------------------
This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Shireen Hilal:
Shireen Hilal is the CEO of Maior, where she helps law firms build better strategies and improve operations. Shireen founded Maior after two decades in law and professional services, including practicing as a litigator in AmLaw 50 firms, serving as the COO of a national law firm (+20% revenue and +30% profits per partner during her tenure), leading strategy for a $1B division of KPMG, and building change programs at BDO. Shireen also writes columns for Law360 and Today's Managing Partner.

Links:
Maior's website: https://www.maiorconsultants.com/
Shireen's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shireenhilal/

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30 min
September 24TRP 344: Cross-Selling in Professional Services Firms with Rebecca Hnatowski
Most law firms say they want to cross-sell. Few have the internal foundation to actually make it happen.
Rebecca Hnatowski is the founder of Edwards Advisory and a specialist in cross-selling strategy and lateral integration for law firms and professional services organizations. In this episode, she joins Scott Love to break down why cross-selling initiatives stall — and exactly what has to be in place before the first client conversation ever happens.
What you'll learn:
Why "let's cross-sell" without internal groundwork almost always fails

The trust problem at the root of most cross-selling breakdowns — and how to fix it

Why partners refuse to share clients (and how origination credit structures make it worse)

How to build a manageable cross-sell target list from data your firm already has

A gap analysis framework: how to identify which clients have unmet legal needs in other practice areas

How to use AI (including Claude and ChatGPT) to research target clients and identify opportunities in minutes

When to bring in an external consultant vs. handle cross-selling initiatives internally

How a post-merger integration timeline affects cross-selling readiness — and when to wait

How to turn a target list into actual client strategy conversations (including the perfect year-end ask)

Why leaderboards and internal competition keep cross-selling initiatives alive past the first six months

3 action steps to start building a real cross-selling program at your firm today
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/7dBb6ypgRvU
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
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This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Rebecca Hnatowski:
Rebecca Hnatowski is the founder of Edwards Advisory, LLC, where she helps law firms and lawyers turn relationships into opportunities for growth. Drawing on nearly 20 years of in-house legal marketing and business development experience, she helps firms put cross-selling into practice by strengthening internal relationships, identifying client needs, and connecting colleagues' capabilities to those opportunities. Through tailored strategies, interactive workshops, and coaching and accountability, Rebecca helps attorneys follow through — and helps firms make more of the talent and relationships they already have.

Links:
Learn more at: edwardsadvisory.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccahnatowski/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
29 min

About The Rainmaking Podcast

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The Rainmaking Podcast will help you to get more business, better business, and all the business from your clients. This podcast is for professional services firms, law firms, and professional sales…