The Rainmaking Podcast

By Scott LoveBusiness Entrepreneurship Marketing

The Rainmaking Podcast episodes

September 03TRP 340: The Trust Economy: Turning Credibility into Steady Deal Flow Without Pushing Harder with Chris Papin
Most professionals hate the idea of selling. What if you didn't have to? Chris Papin has built a thriving multi-discipline practice as a JD, CPA, and insurance producer — without ever feeling like he's pitching. The secret is the trust economy: a system of intentionality, authenticity, and regularity that builds steady deal flow without pushing harder.
Chris Papin is a licensed attorney, certified public accountant, and insurance producer who works with small business owners and entrepreneurs across every stage of their business lifecycle. He's also the author of 168 Hours: A Startup Business Guide That Respects Your Time. In this episode, Chris joins Scott Love to break down exactly how professional services providers can stop relying on hustle and start building the kind of credibility that brings clients to them.
You'll learn:
Why deals are driven by emotion — and what that means for how you build trust with prospects

How to use a 90-second anecdote to open doors at any networking event without pitching

The "step zero" mindset shift that separates professionals who get results at conferences from those who just survive them

Why showing up with a QR code instead of a business card is a trust signal — not just a tech flex

How to use AI to data mine a conference attendee list and identify your top 10 targets in 30 minutes

The two biggest pitfalls that destroy deal flow — and how to avoid both

What a client "funnel" actually looks like for transactional professionals (lawyers, CPAs, consultants)

Why regularity matters more than intensity — and how to build consistency into your BD rhythm even during busy seasons

The "Think, Document, Do" framework: the three-step system that turns good intentions into actual pipeline

3 action steps to start building steady deal flow through trust — starting today
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/CNP3rUgqQSo
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
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This podcast is sponsored by SurePoint Legal Insights (formerly known as Leopard Solutions)–turning legal intelligence into opportunity.
For a free demo, visit this link: https://surepoint.com/legal-insights/
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About Chris Papin:
Chris Papin is a multi-talented professional with an impressive array of qualifications that give him a unique, holistic perspective as an advisor – a licensed attorney, a certified public accountant, and a life, accident, and health insurance producer.
Chris holds a Bachelor's and Master's degree in accounting from the University of Oklahoma. He earned his Certified Public Accountant designation in 2007, followed by a Juris Doctor degree from Oklahoma City University School of Law in 2008. Admitted to practice before the United States Tax Court in 2010, Chris has garnered recognition for his
achievements, including being chosen for the 2009-2010 Leadership Academy Class by the Oklahoma Bar Association and receiving the 2010 Trailblazer honor from the Oklahoma Society of Certified Public Accountants. In 2017 Chris' firm received the Recipient Thomson Reuters Innovation Award, a customer superstar award in the Thomson Reuters community, for doing the most to innovate, invigorate, and grow its practice for the benefit of its clients.
In 2022, Chris won the Top Emerging Firms of the Year, an award that celebrates innovative and forward-thinking companies that have made a significant impact in their respective industries. This prestigious award recognizes emerging firms that have demonstrated exceptional growth,
financial performance, and a commitment to sustainability and social responsibility. It serves as a testament to the recipient's dedication to innovation, customer satisfaction, and business excellence.
Links:
https://papinspeaks.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrispapin/
Order Chris Papin’s book here:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GL8P2PJD

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25 min
September 01TRP 339: [Legal] Artificial Intelligence, Legal Tech and the Future of Law with Eric Thurston
Most law firms know AI is changing their industry. Fewer know exactly where to start, what to avoid, or how to build a technology strategy that doesn't blow up mid-implementation.
Eric Thurston is Executive Chairman of SurePoint Technologies — one of the most widely used legal technology platforms in the country — and a veteran software executive with more than 20 years of experience building and scaling technology companies. He's seen thousands of law firms navigate technology change from the inside. In this episode, Eric joins Scott Love to share a clear-eyed, practical view of where the legal industry stands right now on AI and technology, and what firm leaders need to do to stay ahead of it.
You'll learn:
How AI has evolved from "just ask ChatGPT" to a genuine business strategy — and what that shift means for law firms right now

The two sides of legal technology: practice of law vs. business of law — and why the business side is where most firms are leaving money on the table

Why change management is the most underestimated part of any technology implementation

The #1 mistake law firm leaders make when buying new tech tools (hint: it's not the tool itself)

Why older, monolithic systems can't interact with modern AI — and what to do about it

How one firm identified $70,000–$100,000 per attorney per year in recoverable revenue through process improvement alone

Why attorneys aren't going away — but the nature of associate work is already changing

How forward-thinking firms are rebranding, restructuring, and positioning themselves to be acquisition targets or platform buyers

Why data cleanup is the most overlooked prerequisite for any AI initiative

3 action steps law firm leaders can take right now to build a technology strategy that actually works
Eric also shares details on SurePoint's annual Ignite Conference — September 14–16 in Savannah, Georgia — and the firm's suite of practice management, business development, and legal intelligence solutions.
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/ozGhSb72pTE
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Eric Thurston:
Eric Thurston is Executive Chairman of the Board at SurePoint Technologies and a veteran software executive with more than 20 years of experience building and scaling technology companies. Having led organizations across legal technology, workforce management, and enterprise software, Eric specializes in driving growth, innovation, and customer success.
Before becoming Executive Chairman, Eric served as President and CEO of SurePoint and previously held CEO and executive leadership roles at TCP
Software, Personify, and Mitratech. His track record of building high-performing teams and growing technology businesses earned him recognition as an Ernst & Young Entrepreneur Of The Year® finalist.
Link to Ignite:
Ignite2026 - SurePoint Technologies
https://surepoint.com/ignite2026/?utm_source=rainmakingpod&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=me1215a1

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25 min
August 27TRP 338: Earning Client Trust with Thought Leadership with Bill Sherman
Posting on LinkedIn once isn't thought leadership. Speaking on one panel isn't thought leadership. Real thought leadership is a strategy — and most professionals have never been given a clear framework to build one.
Bill Sherman is COO of Thought Leadership Leverage, co-host of the Leveraging Thought Leadership podcast, and lead co-author of The Thought Leadership Handbook — the book Scott calls the most intellectually rigorous, practically useful resource on thought leadership he's ever read. In this episode, Bill shares the framework he and his colleagues developed over 20 years of consulting with Fortune 500 executives, professional services providers, and emerging experts who want their ideas to travel further and earn more trust.
You'll learn:
The difference between being an expert and becoming a thought leader — and why the skills don't automatically transfer

Bill's 20-word test: what every core idea must do to earn a "tell me more"

The 4 elements of thought leadership: Core Idea, Content Library, Market Offerings, and Platform Identity — explained in full

What a content library actually is (and why sticky notes on a wall is a perfectly legitimate starting point)

Platform identity: how people talk about your ideas when you're not in the room — and why that matters more than personal brand

Why most professionals suffer from "content insecurity" (imposter syndrome's cousin) — and how to push past it

The paradox of knowledge-sharing: why giving away your best ideas makes more people come back to you

Why the "keep it behind the paywall" instinct is the #1 thing holding thought leaders back

How AI is absorbing generic expertise — and what makes your voice irreplaceable

3 action steps to shift from expert to thought leader and start building your platform today
Bill also shares how The Thought Leadership Handbook came to exist — from 2.6 million words of podcast transcripts and two co-authors who said they'd never write a book.
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/jCFNedZciu4
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
----------------------------------------
🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Bill Sherman:
Bill Sherman stumbled into thought leadership when a Fortune 500 executive asked: "How do I scale the ideas in my book?" That was twenty years ago. Today he's COO of Thought Leadership Leverage and co-host of the Leveraging Thought Leadership podcast.
After exploring why experts share their best ideas with strangers, he thinks more of them should. That's why he put his frameworks and tools into The Thought Leadership Handbook. Bill lives in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Links:
Bill's site: https://aha-moments.com/
Book: https://thoughtleadershiphandbook.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bill-sherman-aha-moments/

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29 min
August 25TRP 337: [Legal] Law Firm Mergers: Private Equity/MSO Activity with TJ Henry
Private equity has moved through healthcare, dental, and accounting. Law firms are next — and the deals are already happening. But most law firm leaders don't fully understand the structure, the math, or the risks involved.
TJ Henry is the co-founder and managing partner of Federate, a management services organization that launches, operates, and scales law firms. He's also one of the most knowledgeable people in the country on how MSO structures work, what investors are actually looking for, and what law firm founders need to know before they sit down at the table.
In this episode — part of the Sometimes Tuesdays legal-specific series — TJ joins Scott Love for one of the most detailed, practical conversations the Rainmaking Podcast has ever had on law firm M&A, private equity, and the MSO model.
You'll learn:
What an MSO actually is — and why it's the legal workaround that makes third-party investment in law firms possible

How 20-year contracts, EBITDA calculations, and per-timekeeper fees actually work in these deals

Why a $100M revenue firm doesn't generate $100M in EBITDA — and how to find the real number

What realistic deal multiples look like right now (and why low-to-mid teens should make you nervous)

Why the lawyers most likely to get a deal done are the ones willing to stay and grow — not the ones looking to cash out and leave

The three levers every PE investor needs to pull to run a profitable MSO deal: EBITDA arbitrage, law firm growth, and cost reduction

What investors get wrong when they try to buy into law firms without law firm operators on their team

The difference between a roll-up model and a multi-firm MSO — and the conflicts-of-interest issue that makes one harder than the other

Why small to mid-sized firms are actually better deal targets than AmLaw 200 firms

What "law firm in a box" looks like — and how Federate can get a new firm up and running in 60 days
If you're a law firm founder, managing partner, equity partner, or investor evaluating the legal services market — this episode is required listening.
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/lGP1mVGOMzE
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
----------------------------------------
This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About TJ Henry:
T.J. Henry is a seasoned legal operations and law firm executive with a track record of helping law firms and legal businesses launch, grow, and scale. He specializes in strategic transformation, operational design, and growth, with a focus on building the infrastructure, teams, technology, and systems that allow legal organizations to operate more effectively. T.J. is the Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Federate, where he works with law firms and investors across the legal industry.
Links:
https://federatelegal.com/contact/?utm_source=rainmaking_podcast&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rainmaking_podcast

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29 min
August 20 TRP 336: Your Online Bio with Scott Love
Scott Love has read thousands of law firm partner bios. Most of them are bad. Most of them read like word-for-word copies of every other attorney at every other firm — and they do nothing to compel a prospective client to pick up the phone.
In this solo episode, Scott breaks down the five pillars of a high-performing online bio: the framework he's developed over 30+ years as a legal recruiter that turns a forgettable credentials list into a compelling narrative that makes clients say, "Get me that person."
This one applies whether you're a law firm partner, a consultant, a financial advisor, or any other professional services provider whose bio is the first thing a prospect reads before deciding whether to reach out.
You'll learn:
Why most professional bios fail — and the one question every bio must answer
The difference between marketing and business development (and which one your bio actually is)
The 5 pillars of a compelling online bio: Key Differentiators, Distinction Points, Value Proposition, Track Record & Proof Points, and Thought Leadership
The "so what? so that." exercise that instantly reveals whether your bio is making a real case for you
Why in-house experience, prior careers, and unusual backgrounds are your biggest untapped differentiators — and why most people leave them out
How to turn a generic credentials paragraph into a narrative that shows what you actually do for clients
What thought leadership on a bio looks like — and the specific details that signal authority to a prospect
The final bonus tip: 15 minutes a day that separates consistent rainmakers from everyone else
Scott also references his co-authored book Rainmaker Confidential (with Henry DeVries and Mark LeBlanc) — a full playbook for thought leadership and client development.
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/yP09gNC3SZo
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
----------------------------------------
This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Scott Love:
Scott Love is a legal recruiter solely focused on recruiting corporate and finance partners for global law firms in major markets. He is the host of The Rainmaking Podcast, co-author of Rainmaker Confidential, and speaks professionally at conferences on sales, client development, and recruiting.
📘 Book: Rainmaker Confidential — RainmakerConfidential.com
📖 Rainmaking Magazine: free complimentary subscription at TheRainmakingMagazine.com
🎓 Free Webinars: RainmakingSeminars.com

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11 min
August 18TRP 335: [Legal] Law Firms of the Future with Tim Keith
The legal industry is about to change faster than most law firm leaders are prepared for. Private equity is coming. AI is already here. And the firms that keep doing things the way they've always been done are going to find themselves squeezed from both sides.
Tim Keith is the CEO and founder of Propense AI, an AI-driven cross-selling and client intelligence platform built specifically for law firms. He's watched private equity transform the accounting industry in real time — and he's convinced the same inflection point is coming for legal, faster than anyone anticipates.
In this episode, Tim joins Scott Love to lay out a clear-eyed view of what the law firm of the future actually looks like, what separates the firms that will lead from those that will be absorbed, and what managing partners and partners should be doing right now to get ahead of it.
You'll learn:
Why Tim believes the traditional partnership model will change dramatically within the next five years

How private equity reshaped accounting in under four years — and why legal is next

Why "we've never done it that way" is the most dangerous strategy in the current market

The "one-firm mentality" — why cross-selling is no longer optional and how the best firms are executing it

What non-lawyer ownership of law firms already looks like in practice (Arizona's precedent)

How the billing model is shifting toward value-based pricing — and what that will look like in practice

Why the "black box" of legal work is disappearing and what that means for your competitive position

The rise of niche AI-native law firms — and the partners who are already leaving BigLaw to start them

Why the middle market is going to get "swallowed up" and what that means if your firm lives there

3 action steps law firm leaders and individual partners can take right now to prepare
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/Ej-q2TZ0eGE
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
----------------------------------------
🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
----------------------------------------
This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Tim Keith:
Tim Keith is CEO and founder of Propense AI. Our AI-driven platform analyzes historical data and market signals, providing firms with the insights they need to anticipate client needs before they arise. By enabling firms to serve with precision, we strengthen client relationships, enhance trust, and ultimately create greater value for everyone involved.

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29 min
August 13TRP 334: Power Under Pressure with Emma Zia
Pressure is inevitable. But whether it contracts you or expands you — that's a choice. Dr. Emma Zia has spent nine years helping founders, executives, and high performers figure out which voice they're listening to, and how to change it.
Emma is a high performance expert, author of Power Under Pressure, and holds a Doctorate in Metaphysical Science. She works with leaders at critical inflection points — when the stakes are highest and the old patterns are loudest. In this episode, she joins Scott Love to unpack the Contractor vs. Expander framework, the six hidden unconscious patterns that quietly cap success, and the practical tools to break through each one.
Scott calls this one of the most personally meaningful conversations on the Rainmaking Podcast — one he read aloud to his wife and daughter. It's a little different. And it might be exactly what you need.
You'll learn:
What the Contractor and Expander voices are — and how to tell which one is running your decisions

Why you cannot outperform your inner world (and what that means for your business results)

The 6 hidden patterns that keep high performers stuck: Imposter, Overdrive, Chaos, Fortress, Freeze, and Control

The Dimmer vs. Inflator — two faces of the Imposter pattern and how to spot them in yourself

Why Warren Buffett's success is an argument against the Overdrive pattern

The PlayStation level analogy: why you can't skip to the next level without breaking through the current one first

Why fighting reality only intensifies suffering — and what acceptance actually looks like for a high achiever

How one client went from zero sales for six months to $60K collected in four weeks after a single session

The visceral body exercise that tells you in real time whether you're in contraction or expansion

3 action steps to start accessing your power under pressure today
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com
YouTube: https://youtu.be/pdS6k1sUZRk
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
----------------------------------------
🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
----------------------------------------
This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Emma Zia:
Dr. Emma Zia is a high-performance expert with over 9 years of experience working with leaders, founders, and teams during periods of growth and transition. She holds a Doctorate in Metaphysical Science and works with the unseen structures that drive success. Her approach blends psychological understanding with Extrasensory Perception (ESP), translating unseen principles into practical tools for becoming your best self in life and business.
Links:
Website: https://www.emmazia.com/
Book a session: https://calendly.com/emmazia/clarity-session-personal-business
Get a copy of my book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GY1C84Z3
Connect on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-zia/

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29 min
August 11TRP 333: [Legal] Elevating Emotional Intelligence for Lawyers with David Sarnoff
Research shows lawyers score below average in emotional intelligence compared to the general population. That gap is costing law firms talent, trust, and millions in preventable attrition.
David Sarnoff is an ICF Certified Executive Coach, leadership trainer, and former attorney who founded Sarnoff Group LLC to do development work that actually sticks. He's also the co-author of Beyond the Courtroom: Proven Strategies from the Legal Field for Leadership, Emotional Intelligence, and Well-Being in the Modern Workplace. In this episode, David joins Scott Love to break down why emotional intelligence is so hard for lawyers to develop — and exactly how to build it.
This is a legal-specific episode from the Sometimes Tuesdays series, and it's one of the most practically useful conversations the show has had on leadership, retention, and what actually keeps great attorneys and staff from walking out the door.
You'll learn:
Why lawyers as a population score below average in EQ — and what Martin Seligman's research on pessimism reveals about why

The connection between low EQ and the legal profession's alarming rates of depression, substance abuse, and burnout

Why 70% of what you communicate is nonverbal — and what partners are accidentally telling their teams without knowing it

The "three words exercise" that reveals the gap between how you see yourself and how your team actually experiences you

What the amygdala hijack is and why it makes otherwise rational lawyers act irrationally under stress

The box breathing technique Navy SEALs use to stay calm in chaos — and how one practice group leader used it to stop a blow-up in real time

What KKR discovered when they studied empathy in their portfolio company CEOs (it has nothing to do with being "nice")

Why people don't leave law firms — they leave partners (and what the data says about attrition costs)

How to use the EQI 2.0 assessment to get a baseline and track growth

3 specific action steps to start elevating your emotional intelligence today
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/HrfAyoqt9EQ
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
----------------------------------------
This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About David Sarnoff:
I founded Sarnoff Group LLC to do work that actually moves people, not just training that gets forgotten by Monday morning, but coaching and development that changes how leaders think, communicate, and show up for their teams.
As an ICF Certified Executive Coach, leadership trainer, and former attorney, I bring a perspective most coaches can't offer: I've lived inside the high-stakes, high-pressure environments my clients navigate every day. That background shapes everything about how I work.

Links:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidsarnoff/
Website: www.sarnoffgroup.com

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27 min
August 06TRP 332: When to Say No to Business with Gina Rubel
"No is a complete sentence." It took Gina Rubel years of executive coaching — and nearly 25 years of running a top legal PR firm — to fully believe that. In this episode, she makes the case for why.
Gina Rubel is the CEO and General Counsel of Furia Rubel Communications, a nationally recognized legal marketing, litigation PR, and crisis communications agency. She joins Scott Love for the Rainmaking Podcast's first-ever episode dedicated entirely to saying no — when to do it, how to do it, and why the most successful professionals in any field have mastered it.
This conversation is packed with practical frameworks: red flag checklists, core values exercises, real-world stories from crisis comms and RFP negotiations, and the "yes, and" mindset that turns a firm no into a future opportunity.
You'll learn:
The 6 most common reasons a professional services provider should turn down business — and how to recognize each one early

How to build your personal red flag checklist before you take another intake call

Why your core values — not your revenue goals — should be the filter for every new client relationship

The RFP negotiation story: how saying "we can't do this in time" turned into a stronger client relationship

Why "no" doesn't always have to mean no — and how the "yes, and" approach keeps doors open

How to actually say no to a prospect without over-explaining or burning the bridge

Why culture fit doesn't mean identical culture — and what the real alignment requirement is

The red flag you're probably overlooking: clients who don't value your advice

When an existing client relationship warrants a no (and how to handle it with integrity)

3 action steps to start saying no to the right things starting today
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/DHktJ3_6xMw
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.
📖 Subscribe to Rainmaking Magazine — free complimentary subscription: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
----------------------------------------
This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Gina Rubel:
Gina Rubel is the CEO and General Counsel of Furia Rubel Communications, Inc., a nationally recognized legal marketing, litigation PR, and crisis communications agency serving law firms, their clients, and legal industry organizations.

Links:
https://www.furiarubel.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/ginafuriarubel/

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
28 min
July 30TRP 331: Brand Intelligence Through Strategic Listening with Paula Zirinsky
You think you know your brand. Your clients experience something else entirely — and that gap is costing you business.
Paula Zirinsky is the founder of Zirinsky Strategy LLC and a marketing strategist with over four decades of experience helping law firms, professional services organizations, and global companies discover what their brand actually is — not what they assume it is. In this episode, Paula joins Scott Love to unpack brand intelligence, strategic listening, and the brand discovery process that reveals the hidden stories, emotional differentiators, and unexpected insights that separate the best firms from everyone who sounds exactly like them.
You'll learn:
What brand intelligence actually is — and why emotional differentiation matters more than rational differentiation

Why "we know our brand" is the most dangerous thing a law firm can say

The single most powerful question to ask a client that unlocks the stories behind your brand

How the pause after "tell me a story" often produces the most valuable insight of any interview

What the "triage" story reveals about finding a hidden differentiator hiding in plain sight

Why process can be as powerful a brand story as personality

How brand discovery interviews actually strengthen client loyalty — sometimes just by asking

What blocks organizations from implementing brand work successfully (it's not budget)

How strategic listening applies to lateral recruiting and partner development — not just marketing

3 action steps any firm can take right now to start listening differently — even without a consultant
Whether you're a managing partner, chief marketing officer, or a solo practitioner trying to stand out in a crowded market — this episode will change how you think about what your brand actually is.
Visit: https://therainmakingpodcast.com/
YouTube: https://youtu.be/auqwyRY0NeQ
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If you are a successful law firm partner or law firm founder and want to hear about other options, please book a time on Scott Love's calendar here:
https://calendly.com/scott-736/half-hour-phone-meeting-with-scott
Or email Scott to connect with him at: [email protected]
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🎙️ The Rainmaking Magazine helps lawyers, consultants, and professional service providers build thriving practices through smarter business development.📖 Subscribe to The Rainmaking Magazine — free 30-day trial: https://www.rainmakingmagazine.com
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This show is sponsored by Leopard Solutions Legal Intelligence Suite of products, Firmscape, and Leopard BI. Push ahead of the pack with the power of Leopard. For a free demo, visit this link: https://www.leopardsolutions.com/index.php/request-a-demo/
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About Paula Zirinsky:
Paula Zirinsky, the founder of Zirinsky Strategy LLC, is a seasoned marketing professional who excels in tackling marketing challenges and problem-solving through branding, thought leadership, and intentional marketing initiatives. With over four decades of experience, she possesses a proven track record in identifying growth opportunities for global companies and has a knack for building the necessary infrastructure and teams to drive strategy, branding, thought leadership, marketing, and business development. Paula is also well-versed in content creation, communications, digital programs, and the implementation of technology platforms.

Links:
https://www.zirinskystrategy.com/about
https://www.zirinskystrategy.com/contact

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25 min

About The Rainmaking Podcast

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The Rainmaking Podcast will help you to get more business, better business, and all the business from your clients. This podcast is for professional services firms, law firms, and professional sales…