The Reader and the Writer

We’re continuing our close reading of Cloud Cuckoo Land by Anthony Doerr, and, as Rhea says, it’s all about captivity. How are each of the characters being held in captivity—both outwardly and inwardly? What is holding them there? Is every idea they are held captive by bad? What about us? What are we being held captive by day in and day out? And what about poor Aethon? His story isn’t turning out as magical as he thought it would. Finally, Rhea and Shari discuss all the ways they see the characters’s stories begin to intersect and talk to one another, even though physically in some cases, there is no way they ever could. We had a lot of fun discussing this episode, and hope you enjoy listening along.

Timeline for the rest of Cloud Cuckoo Land:

* July 30: Chapters 13-19

* Aug 6: Chapters 20-24

Programing note:

A head’s up on what we’re reading next. Rather than tackle three YA novels over six weeks giving none of them due diligence, we’ve decided to focus on Everything Sad is Untrue by Daniel Nayari. Afterwards, we’ll be reading some of The Arabian Nights, which Everything Sad… is written (loosely) in concert with. Everything Sad… will begin either Aug. 13th or Aug 20th, and run for three episodes.

We’d love to hear from you!

* Email us at: [email protected]

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* Subscribe to the podcast on Substack and these major platforms: Apple, Spotify, Google, Amazon

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Hello Reader & Writer listeners! This week, Rhea and I are beginning a new book: Cloud Cuckoo Land by Anthony Doerr. In this episode we spend considerable time talking about Anthony Doerr and his “theory of everything” masterfully contained inside this book. We dive into the story’s strange structure: three time periods, five protagonists, and the magical myth of Aethon running throughout. We talk about quest stories. We fumble through the first seven chapters of the story, trying to make sense of each character’s situation and how each one rhymes with the others through simple repetitions and woven through motifs.

Here are the links to the interviews mentioned in the episode:

* Free Library of Philadelphia Interview with John Freeman

* Writers Symposium by the Sea interview with Dean Nelson (on All the Light We Cannot See)

* Anthony Doerr’s website

* Anthony Doerr on The Louisiana Channel

Here is the schedule for the rest of Cloud Cuckoo Land:

* July 16: Chapters 1-7

* July 23: Chapters 8-12

* July 30: Chapters 13-19

* Aug 6: Chapters 20-24

Finally, a head’s up on what we’ll be reading next, as we’ve made a change. Rather than tackle three YA novels over six weeks giving none of them due diligence, we’ve decided to focus on Everything Sad is Untrue by Daniel Nayari. Afterwards, we’ll be reading some of The Arabian Nights, which Everything Sad… is written (loosely) in concert with. Everything Sad… will begin either Aug. 13th or Aug 20th, and run for three episodes.

We’d love to hear from you!

* Email us at: [email protected]

* Follow us on Facebook: The Reader and the Writer

* Subscribe to the podcast on Substack and these major platforms: Apple, Spotify, Google, Amazon

Thanks for reading The Reader & the Writer! Subscribe for free to receive new podcast episodes and Substack posts directly in your inbox.

Here we are, at the final episode for North Woods. This was, by far, our favorite section of the story. Just when we thought it couldn’t be anymore of a delight to read, Mason pulls all the threads through in a most magisterial way. In this episode Shari and Rhea discuss the nature of mental illness (a motif that shows up throughout the story), mementos and their meanings, transcendence, constructs of time, and the liminal space between here and eternity. Shari gets her Hamilton quote in for the series, and we end with a C.S. Lewis quote from Weight of Glory.

We hope you loved North Woods as much as we did. Let us know what you thought of the story, our discussion, and your personal takeaways in the comment section.

Our next story is Cloud Cuckoo Land, by Anthony Doerr. The first episode of this series will drop July 16. You’ll notice we’re taking a break on July 9th, so everyone—us included!—has time to read. :)

We want to hear from you!

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* Send us and email: [email protected]

* Write a review on your preferred podcast listening platform!

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We are in the middle of North Woods and things are getting wild. In this episode, Shari and Rhea spend a lot of time discussing the heart of the artist: the tension between vision and expectation, who one makes art for, and getting out of the way of what wants to be made. We also talk about confessing to the earth, all the ways Mason continues to bring this north woods alive for us: the wonder of these multiple points of view, images, “found texts;” the making and re-making of Eden, blights, diseases, “Harrow,” “Rupture,” and “Stitching.” And, of course, the lusty beetle scene!

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Write a review on your preferred podcast listening platform!

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This week Rhea and Shari begin North Woods by Daniel Mason. In this episode they discuss their first impressions of the story and give an overview of the characters and action in these beginning sections of the book. They talk about elegant writing, playfulness with prose, and the way Daniel Mason is masterful at creating movement and transcendence throughout the narrative. Of course, there are character transitions, p.o.v shifts, action, and the motifs they discuss as well: The Creation narrative, the Fall, and all that white space (!).

Links to interviews, articles, and podcasts they discussed in the show:

* You Tube interview

* Oxford Review of Books article/interview

* Sold a Story podcast

Timeline for the rest of North Woods:

* Part 2 (pp. 131-242): June 25

* Part 3 (pp. 243 - end): July 2

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On this episode, Shari and Rhea wrap up their discussion of David Copperfield. They explore all the side stories and whether they were so much of “side stories” after all. They compare mother - child relationships, notice the many subtle—and not so subtle—Biblical connections, and recognize all the ways Dickens is plain old havin’ fun in this section: the theatrics, dramatic monologues, romanticism, stark contrasts of good and evil, and… the over-the-topness of Mr. Micawber’s speechifying. Oiy!! They also ask themselves who is the real hero of David’s story? And… do they still wonder if they made a mistake reading David Copperfield and Demon Copperhead back-to-back? This, and a lot more!

We’d love to hear from you! What do you think of the episodes? What would you like to hear more about when we discuss each story? Have any questions? What do you think of our assessments of characters and their motives? You can message us through the Reader & the The Writer, or through each of our personal Substack accounts: Shari Dragovich, or Rhea Forney.

Looking ahead to our next reads:

Summertime Reads:

* North Woods by Daniel Mason;

First episode dropping June 18th; “One” up to but not including “Letters to E.N.” (pp. 5-127); Episode 2: pp. 131-239; Episode 3: pp. 243-369 (end)

* Cloud Cuckoo Land by Anthony Doerr

Back to School YA Slam:

* The Wednesday Wars by Gary Schmidt

* Everything Sad is Untrue by Daniel Nayari

* You Bring the Distant Near by Mitali Perkins (Note: Shari misspoke when she named this title in the podcast… oops!)

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On this episode, Shari and Rhea discuss lots of “big picture” topics they are recognizing as they read: deep dives into character comparisons between David Copperfield and Demon Copperhead; recurring imagery and how theses things are telling a story behind the story; developing themes; and… why we even bother to spend the time reading and writing stories at all. Oh, and a long and winding discussion on character foils! It’s getting real, dear listener!

In our final episode of David Copperfield, we’ll be reading to the end. Look for this episode to drop June 11th.

Also, looking ahead to our next reads:

Summertime Reads:

* North Woods by Daniel Mason

* Cloud Cuckoo Land by Anthony Doerr

Back to School YA Slam:

* The Wednesday Wars by Gary Schmidt

* Everything Sad is Untrue by Daniel Nayari

* You Bring the Distant Near by Mitali Perkins

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Music: Dawn by Ardie’s Son

Much is happening in this middle section of David Copperfield! So, we’ve decided to divide this middle section of the story into two parts. In Part 1 of this section, Rhea and Shari discuss the specifics of the story: development of characters, ways the story is coming into its own and separating itself from Demon Copperhead in our minds, and how much we’re enjoying the movement happening here.

Music: Dawn by Ardie’s Son

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Welcome back to our discussion of David Copperfield! In this episode, Rhea and Shari discuss Chapters 1-22 of David Copperfield. They do a deep dive into the various characters that have been introduced so far and compare them (because they can’t help it) to their dopplegangers in Demon Copperhead. Beyond this, however, they discuss the peculiarities of the time and place of David Copperfield that make the characters behave and spend their days as they do. They discuss the roles of women and the wide variation of female characters in the story. And they discuss the writing trick Dickens' employs to create caricatures out of several of his characters, quietly weaving satire and a kind of social commentary throughout the novel.

On the next episode, dropping May 14th, we’ll be discussing Chapters 23-42.

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This week Shari and Rhea begin reading David Copperfield. In this episode, they do a “warm up” to the reading; that is, an introduction to the time and place in which Dickens is writing. They share some of the more surprising struggles they’ve had while reading David Copperfield, and wonder if they’ve made a mistake in reading it back-to-back with Demon Copperhead. They talk about the difference between Regency and Victorian England, the messy emergence of England’s middle class, other British literature of the same era… but not exactly the same era, and how all this new understanding is helping them to pick up more of the satire and social commentary that Charles Dickens is putting down throughout the story.

The episode schedule for David Copperfield will be every two weeks. Below is the readings schedule with dates:

* May 14th: Chapters 1-22

* May 28th: Chapters 23-42

* June 11th: Chapters 43-64 + a short wrap up with the Great Story

We recommend finding a copy of David Copperfield that offers literary and/or historical commentary on Dicken’s and his writing of David Copperfield, as well as offers footnotes to give context to confusing words, phrases, or references. Rhea and I are reading from: the Penguin Classics Edition, and The Barnes & Noble Classics Series.

Read wide & read well, dear listeners. And live every day in witness to the Great Story.

Intro and Exit music: Dawn by Ardie’s Son