The Recruiting Book Club

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The Recruiting Book Club episodes

August 12, 2025Equity Edge: Jenn Tardy on Building Workplaces Where Everyone Belongs
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson is joined by author, entrepreneur, and equity strategist Jenn Tardy for a conversation that’s part history lesson, part recruiting masterclass, and part call to action.
As CEO of Jennifer Tardy Consulting and co-owner of PWP Health, Jenn has spent her career dismantling the barriers that keep workplaces from being truly inclusive - whether in corporate recruiting or community-based mental health. Her new book, The Equity Edge, is a blueprint for leaders ready to move beyond good intentions and start creating measurable change in hiring, retention, and representation.
From her early days as a recruiter to leading TA teams across industries, Jenn has seen the same patterns repeat: hiring systems that work exactly as designed - to exclude - and recruiters who underestimate their power to change them. In this discussion, she makes the case for why equity must be baked into the foundation of every workplace, not bolted on as an afterthought.
Highlights from the conversation:
The Language Shift We Need – Why no individual is “diverse,” and how reframing language changes who takes responsibility for inclusion.

The Hiring Process Isn’t Broken – It was built to keep some people out. Jenn explains how to re-engineer it to open doors without causing harm.

Equity Over Inclusion Alone – Inclusion without equity forces employees to adapt to systems never designed for them.

Recruiters as Advisers, Not Order-Takers – How to push back on “not a fit” feedback and tie every qualification to the actual work.

Unconventional Sourcing That Works – From mega churches to college DEI offices, Jenn shares strategies that expand your talent pool if you commit beyond a one-time try.

Proof of Inclusion – The checklist every employer should use to assess whether their actions and public signals tell candidates they belong.

The Tax of Being Different – How underrepresented employees calculate the personal cost of working in non-inclusive environments - and why employers should pay attention.
Jenn leads with clarity and warmth, pairing deep historical context with practical tools leaders can use today. The Equity Edge isn’t just a book - it’s a strategy for building systems that welcome, value, and elevate every voice.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with Jenn Tardy on LinkedIn
or visit https://www.jennifertardy.com/

Get your copy of The Equity Edge - a must-read for recruiters, HR leaders, and executives ready to turn equity from a talking point into a measurable reality.

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48 min
July 01, 2025 Candidate Experience: Kevin Grossman on Treating Every Applicant Like a Brand Touchpoint
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson sits down with Kevin Grossman, longtime TA strategist and co-author of Candidate Experience, for an unfiltered exploration of what it really means to respect every applicant - even the ones who don't get the job.
From faxes in the ‘90s to AI-assisted screening today, Kevin walks through the messy evolution of candidate experience and how it became the biggest unsolved issue in modern recruiting.

Key themes discussed include:
Candidate Experience Starts Before You Hire: Kevin argues the experience begins the moment a candidate becomes aware of your brand - not when they hit "apply." Recruiters who get this wrong erode both their pipeline and their company’s reputation.
Rejection ≠ Neglect: Most applicants will hear “no.” Kevin explains why timely, clear, and empathetic rejections are critical - not for closure, but for retention, referrals, and brand advocacy.
Stop Ghosting Your Pipeline: Ghosting candidates after outreach? According to Kevin, that’s the fastest way to lose trust - and future applicants. He breaks down how TA teams can avoid the “black hole” effect by systematizing communication.
Internal Candidates Are Candidates Too: Kevin shares how high-performing companies actively re-recruit internal talent to drive retention, mobility, and loyalty - without sacrificing fairness in the hiring process.
Coupons and Career Tips: Unexpected Differentiators: From Kimberly-Clark’s revenue-generating coupon initiative to Northwell Health’s job-seeker training content, Kevin highlights the small moves that separate candidate-centric employers from everyone else.
Candidate Resentment Is Real - and Growing: Carmen and Kevin reflect on years of data from The CandEs to explain why candidate resentment keeps rising, and what TA leaders must do before it tanks employer brand and application volume.
Why Most Recruiters Aren’t Trained for This: The truth: many recruiters learn on the job with zero formal training in process, feedback, or interview coaching. Kevin offers blunt advice for TA leaders looking to upskill their teams without a massive budget.
This episode is essential listening for anyone involved in hiring - from sourcers to HR execs. Kevin doesn’t just talk about candidate experience - he’s measured it, benchmarked it, and built systems to improve it.
Because the question isn’t whether candidate experience matters. The question is how long your company can afford to ignore it.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with Kevin Grossman on LinkedIn

Get your copy of Candidate Experience – the essential playbook for HR and TA leaders ready to turn every applicant interaction into a strategic advantage and prove hiring impact with data that executives can't ignore.

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58 min
June 24, 2025 Talent Intelligence: Toby Culshaw on Embedding HR in Business Decisions Through Data That Actually Matters
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson welcomes Toby Culshaw, author of Talent Intelligence: Use Business and People Data to Drive Organizational Performance. A veteran of Amazon, SAP, and Philips, Toby joins Carmen for a sweeping, no-nonsense look at how labor market data is reshaping business decisions - whether companies are ready for it or not.
This isn’t a chat about dashboards and buzzwords. It’s a grounded, layered conversation on how talent intelligence is already influencing everything from site selection to M&A - and why most TA teams are already doing parts of this work without realizing it.
Key themes discussed include:
Talent Intelligence ≠ People Analytics: Toby explains the difference between capital-TI (external labor market data) and lowercase-ti (internal people metrics) and why practitioners need to understand both - especially as these functions begin to merge.
Stop Taking “Nice-to-Have” Projects: With most TI teams under five people, Toby argues for clear barriers to entry. If it doesn’t drive measurable business impact, it’s not worth doing.
Why Small Companies Need TI More Than Enterprises: Mistakes in site selection, compensation strategy, or talent messaging hit 200-person companies harder than they do the Fortune 500. Toby explains how TI is a survival tactic, not a luxury.
The Power of Saying “We Told You So”: From advising against bad hiring locations to surfacing ignored market realities, Toby shares how real-world failures gave his team credibility—and influence.
Data is Only Valuable If Shared: Carmen and Toby unpack how distribution, not just insight, determines value. Newsletters, internal branding, and “talent intelligence grenades” are all on the table.
Automation, AI, and the Rising Baseline of Talent: As AI moves from vendor layers into CRMs and ATSs, Toby predicts a recalibration of what “entry-level” looks like and a renewed demand for consulting skills recruiters have forgotten.
This episode is a must-listen for recruiters, HR strategists, and TA leaders wondering how to move beyond transactions and start driving strategy. As Carmen notes, recruiters may already be gathering this data - but Toby shows how to own it, scale it, and use it to shape the business before the business shapes you.
Because talent intelligence isn’t the future of TA. It’s the present - and it’s expanding fast.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with Toby Culshaw on LinkedIn
Get your copy of Talent Intelligence – the definitive guide for HR and TA leaders ready to turn people data into business strategy and stop making talent decisions in the dark.

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55 min
June 10, 2025Employer Branding for Small Business: James Ellis on Turning Size Into Strategy and Building Talent Magnetism Without the Bloat
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson welcomes James Ellis - author of Talent Chooses You, The 18 Laws of Employer Branding, and Employer Branding for Small Business. Equal parts marketing mind and recruiting realist, James joins Carmen to unpack why most employer brands sound the same, what it actually takes to stand out, and how recruiters can stop playing by rules written for companies ten times their size.
This episode is a fast, layered dive into why differentiation matters more than decoration, and how clarity - not perfection - is the cornerstone of a strong employer brand.
Key themes discussed include:
Forget the Fortune 500 Playbook: James explains how smaller companies trying to mimic enterprise recruiting strategies are setting themselves up to fail - and how to compete on your own terms instead.

Marketing vs. Employer Branding: From political science major to digital strategist to employer brand nerd, James shares how his marketing roots shaped his perspective on brand clarity, storytelling, and authenticity.

Three Paths to Differentiation: Mission. Experience. Rewards. James outlines a pragmatic framework for discovering what actually makes your company different - and why dogs in the office may be more strategic than you think.

Clarity Beats Creativity: A polished career site means nothing if candidates can’t tell you apart from the competition. James explains how to audit your brand presence and uncover what your touchpoints really say about you.

Your Offer Letter Is the Money Slide: James lays out a practical approach to employer brand ROI - showing how even a 5% improvement in messaging at each stage of the hiring funnel can deliver real business results.

The Law of Fit: Candidates are evaluating salary, job, and company in that order. Understand this hierarchy - or risk losing top talent to companies that do.
This episode is essential listening for talent leaders, recruiters, and employer brand pros who are tired of copy-paste job posts and career sites that say nothing. James reminds us that being “just another great place to work” is a losing strategy - and that your brand’s difference is already there, hiding in plain sight.
Because in the game of talent, being generic is the most expensive choice you can make.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with James Ellis on LinkedIn
or visit www.employerbrandlabs.com
James’s Personal Archive of Employer Brand Resources
Think employer branding is only for the big players? Think again. Employer Branding for Small Business by James Ellis is a tactical field guide for companies with 10 to 1,000 employees ready to outmaneuver the giants without matching their budgets. In just two hours a week, you’ll learn how to activate your brand, attract better candidates, and hire with clarity, not chaos.
Get your copy of Employer Branding for Small Business – the only employer brand playbook built specifically for lean teams ready to win on their own terms.

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51 min
June 03, 2025Hiring Humans: Craig Fisher on Building Connection at Scale and Why Automation Can’t Replace Intuition
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson sits down with longtime friend and fellow industry builder Craig Fisher - author of Hiring Humans, founder of TalentNet Media, and a seasoned consultant at the intersection of recruiting, marketing, and employer branding.
From his early days in pharma sales to leading digital transformation projects for Toyota and Allegis, Craig’s career arc is anything but ordinary. Together, they unpack how Craig went from selling hospital equipment to reshaping how Fortune 50s think about talent, tech, and candidate
experience. It’s a fast-paced conversation that covers Craig’s “empathy-first” approach to recruiting, the evolution of job descriptions in the AI era, and why online presence is now a non-negotiable for talent professionals.
Key themes discussed include:
From Field Rep to Founder: Craig shares the inflection points that led him into recruiting - and how a side hustle with Twitter turned into a national conference series and consulting practice.
Job Descriptions, Rewritten: With 13,000 job posts under his belt, Craig explains how bad metadata and outdated templates tank performance - and what real “candidate-first” copy looks like.
Empathy Maps and Marketing Mindsets: Drawing from IBM’s Future of Work sessions, Craig walks through his recruiting empathy map and the power of persona-based sourcing strategies.
Tech Doesn’t Replace the Human: Craig champions the tools, but reminds us why automation doesn’t equal connection - and why candidate ghosting is still a human problem, not a software glitch.
Online Presence = Professional Currency: For recruiters struggling with visibility, Craig offers a pragmatic framework for showing up online - without oversharing or burning bridges.
The Metrics That Matter: From time-to-fill to revenue impact, Craig breaks down how recruiters can align with business goals and finally get a seat at the table - with numbers to back it up.
This episode is for anyone wondering how to blend heart and hard data, and what it means to be truly human in a profession increasingly driven by code, content, and compliance.
Craig reminds us that recruiting isn’t broken - it’s just growing up.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with Craig Fisher on LinkedIn
Get your copy of Hiring Humans by Craig Fisher - a candid, strategic guide for navigating the evolving world of recruiting with empathy, precision, and tech-savvy execution. From crafting better candidate experiences to optimizing your brand in a digital-first landscape, this book arms TA leaders with the tools to hire smarter - without losing the human touch.

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48 min
May 27, 2025 The Sourcing and Recruitment Handbook: Shally Steckerl on Building Smarter Talent Pipelines and the Evolution of Modern Sourcing
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson sits down with Shally Steckerl – sourcing pioneer, educator, and author of The
Sourcing and Recruitment Handbook. Known as one of the earliest voices
in online recruiting education, Shally’s career spans from Peace Corps
volunteer to founder, trainer, consultant, and strategic advisor to top TA
organizations.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Shally unpacks the twists and turns of his unconventional path into recruiting, the evolution of sourcing
from a back-office function to a critical business strategy, and the
hard-earned lessons behind his multiple books. Listeners will hear how a random pool game led to a lifelong career, what makes sourcing today fundamentally different than it was 10 years ago, and why the future of talent strategy requires more than tools - it demands perspective.
Key themes discussed include:
• Origin Story of a Sourcing Legend: Shally recounts the improbable moment that sparked his recruiting journey and the mentors who shaped his trajectory - from contingency staffing to corporate TA to global consulting.
• Sourcing as Strategic Intelligence: Beyond finding candidates, Shally reveals how sourcing acts as a lever for competitive intel, workforce planning, and business readiness in volatile markets.
• Automation vs. Insight: While today’s AI tools can process resumes at scale, Shally cautions against overreliance. He shares real-world examples of candidates overlooked by algorithms but hired through human judgment - underscoring the irreplaceable role of recruiter intuition.
• Hiring Manager Accountability: The conversation dives into overlooked metrics around hiring manager performance. Shally argues for equal scrutiny on both sides of the recruiting equation to improve conversion and outcomes.
• The Pain and Power of Writing a Real Book: Shally shares the raw truth behind publishing a true reference text - ISBNs, editing rounds, industry relevance - and the obsessive drive required to put real knowledge into lasting form.

This episode is essential listening for anyone in recruiting
or TA leadership looking to elevate sourcing from a tactical task to a
strategic asset - and anyone curious about the mind behind one of the field’s foundational texts.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with Shally Steckerl on LinkedIn
Get your copy of The Sourcing and Recruitment Handbook by Shally Steckerl - the definitive field manual for mastering online talent discovery, optimizing sourcing workflows, and outpacing the competition with practical, battle-tested tactics.

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1 hr 6 min
May 20, 2025 AI Talent Sourcing: Reimagining Recruiting Workflows with Jonathan Kidder
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson welcomes Jonathan Kidder - senior technical recruiter at Amazon and prolific author of 24 recruiting books, including AI Talent Sourcing and A Guide to Diversity Talent Sourcing. Known in the industry as the “Wizard
Sourcer,” Jonathan blends hands-on sourcing expertise with a practical,
data-driven approach to modern talent acquisition.
Jonathan shares his journey into recruiting, from an internship at Allegis Global Solutions to his current role at Amazon, where he supports high-level technical hiring in one of the largest TA functions in North America. He reflects on the evolution of recruiting - from “post and pray” methods to today’s AI-powered sourcing tools - and how data, time management, and cross-functional collaboration are central to success in high-volume, high-bar environments like Amazon.
Key themes discussed include:
Recruiting at Scale: How to navigate and succeed in a complex environment like Amazon, where internal competition for top talent is fierce and speed is essential.
AI in Sourcing: Jonathan explains how tools like ChatGPT, DeepSeek, Harpa, and PartyRock are transforming the recruiter’s workflow - from talent mapping to message generation - and what the future may hold for sourcing automation.
Candidate & Hiring Manager Preparation: The importance of prepping both sides of the interview process, and how structured communication helps raise the hiring bar.
Authoring Recruiting Knowledge: Jonathan unpacks his motivation for writing recruiting books, the niche demand they serve, and why self-publishing through Amazon KDP offered the most practical route to distribution.
This episode is a must-listen for recruiters navigating today’s rapidly shifting tech landscape, especially those looking to leverage AI tools while still delivering high-touch candidate experiences.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with Jonathan Kidder on LinkedIn
Get your copy of AI Talent Sourcing by Jonathan Kidder - your step-by-step playbook for using generative AI to streamline sourcing, craft better prompts, and gain a competitive edge in modern recruiting.

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45 min
December 10, 2024The Corporate Recruiting Playbook: Proven Techniques for Hiring
In this unique episode of The Corporate Recruiting Playbook, the tables are turned as Carmen Hudson, author of The Corporate Recruiting Playbook: Strategies for Hiring Top Talent, becomes the guest.
Carmen is interviewed by her husband, William Wiggins, Chief People and Culture Officer at Youth Care. Together, they dive deep into the book that has become an essential resource for recruiters and hiring managers alike.
Carmen shares her journey as a veteran recruiter with experience spanning major corporations like Amazon, Microsoft, and Starbucks, and discusses how her career led to the creation of The Corporate Recruiting Playbook. The book is a culmination of years of expertise, offering practical advice, frameworks, and insights for navigating the recruiting profession.
Key highlights from the episode include:
The Inspiration Behind the Playbook: Carmen reflects on her early career experiences and how they shaped her commitment to creating better candidate experiences and building effective recruiting teams.
Candidate Experience Matters: Carmen explains why a thoughtful and fair candidate experience is essential for both recruitment success and long-term brand perception.
Mastering Hiring Manager Relationships: Learn how Carmen turned challenging hiring manager dynamics into partnerships through preparation, transparency, and thoughtful dialogue.
Diversity as a Recruiting Imperative: The duo discuss actionable strategies for embedding diversity into recruiting practices and why it’s a long-term investment, not just a checkbox.
The Legal Side of Recruiting: Carmen addresses common legal landmines recruiters face and emphasizes the importance of training teams to navigate compliance with confidence.
Recruiting as a Craft: From sourcing and screening to employer branding, Carmen offers a detailed look at what makes recruiting a dynamic and impactful career.
This episode is packed with insights and personal anecdotes that illustrate the complexities and rewards of the recruiting profession. Whether you’re a seasoned recruiter or just starting your career, Carmen’s expertise will leave you inspired and better equipped to navigate the evolving talent acquisition landscape.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with William Wiggins on LinkedIn
Learn more about Youth Care at www.youthcare.org

Check out The Corporate Recruiting Playbook: Strategies for Hiring Top Talent by Carmen Hudson for a comprehensive guide to mastering the art and science of recruiting, filled with actionable insights, proven strategies, and practical tips to build exceptional hiring practices.

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46 min
November 19, 2024The RecOps Playbook: Revolutionizing TA with James Colino
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson sits down with James Colino, author of RecOps: Recruiting Is (Still) Broken. Here’s How to Fix It. James, a seasoned talent acquisition leader and entrepreneur, shares his expertise on building and optimizing recruiting operations. With a career spanning leadership roles at companies like Pfizer, Hershey, and Sheetz, James has developed a unique framework to transform recruitment practices and address the complexities of modern TA functions.
Carmen and James delve into the key themes of his book and discuss practical approaches to improving recruiting operations, including:
The RecOps Framework: James introduces his five-pillar model (strategy, operations, recruiting, insights, and RecOps) and explains how it drives continuous improvement in talent acquisition.
Simplifying Complex Recruiting Systems: They explore how recruiting has become overly complicated due to an influx of technology and process layering, and James shares actionable advice for streamlining TA functions.
Building Effective RecOps Teams: James discusses how to identify the right skills for a RecOps team, sharing examples from his own experiences, including cross-functional hires from marketing and real estate.
Data-Driven Talent Acquisition: The conversation highlights the importance of leveraging operational and ad hoc data to identify bottlenecks and optimize recruiting processes.
Recruiting Technology & Integration: James shares insights on evaluating TA technology, structuring vendor demos, and ensuring seamless integration to reduce recruiter overwhelm and improve system efficiency.
James also provides a behind-the-scenes look at his writing process, the impact of publishing his book, and his plans to launch a formal RecOps community and cohort-based course for TA leaders.
This episode offers an in-depth exploration of the challenges and opportunities in recruiting operations, making it a must-listen for TA professionals looking to enhance their impact and build more effective recruitment systems.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com
Connect with James Colino on LinkedIn
Check out RecOps: Recruiting Is (Still) Broken. Here’s How to Fix It. for a comprehensive guide to transforming recruiting practices with proven strategies and frameworks.

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42 min
November 12, 2024The AI Recruiter: Navigating the Future of Hiring with Mike Wolford
In this episode of The Recruiting Book Club, host Carmen Hudson welcomes Mike Wolford, author of The AI Recruiter: Revolutionizing Hiring with Advanced GPT-Powered Prompts. Mike, a talent acquisition veteran with nearly 20 years of experience, shares the journey behind his latest book, co-authored with GPT-4, designed to help recruiters leverage AI for sourcing, candidate engagement, and streamlined recruitment processes.
Carmen and Mike dive deep into the shifting landscape of talent acquisition, exploring key areas of transformation, including:
The Role of AI in Talent Acquisition: Mike explains how AI has the potential to revolutionize recruiting, from resume matching and automated outreach to phone screening, all while improving candidate experience.
Custom GPT Prompts for Recruiting: Mike discusses his hands-on approach in building a custom AI recruiter, detailing how GPT-4 prompts and learned examples can emulate his unique style and streamline daily recruiting tasks.
Ethics and AI in Recruitment: They explore the ethical considerations surrounding AI’s role in hiring, the importance of transparency, and the potential for AI to reduce certain types of bias in the recruiting process.
Preparing for AI’s Impact on Jobs in TA: Mike offers candid insights on the future of recruiting roles as AI handles more repetitive tasks, envisioning a future where recruiters focus on strategic guidance and candidate relationships rather than administrative work.
AI as a Tool, Not a Replacement: Mike emphasizes the need for recruiters to adopt AI to maintain relevance and how new AI-powered tools can help them engage candidates more effectively while providing data-driven insights to hiring managers.
This episode provides a practical and forward-looking view of how AI can enhance - not replace - recruitment, offering a valuable guide for talent acquisition professionals interested in staying at the forefront of this rapidly evolving field.

Follow Carmen Hudson on LinkedIn
or visit www.carmenhudson.com

Connect with Mike Wolford on LinkedIn
Check out The AI Recruiter: Revolutionizing Hiring with Advanced GPT-Powered Prompts for a guide to AI in recruitment that blends innovation with actionable strategies for the modern recruiter.

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53 min

About The Recruiting Book Club

From the publisher's feed

Welcome to The Recruiting Book Club Podcast! In this series, we sit down with the authors behind the best books on recruiting and talent acquisition. From expert insights to behind-the-scenes stories,…