The Redeemed Perfectionist | Christian Perfectionism, Identity in Christ, People Pleasing

Ten years ago, Megan Babcock stood at her front door with her keys in her hand and told her crying son that if he didn't stop, she'd take his phone. And in that second she heard it — the exact thing that had broken her as a kid, coming out of her own mouth.

That night she ended up on the bathroom floor saying the only prayer she had left: I can't live like this anymore.

In this Season 1 finale, Megan and I get into what stuck actually is (spoiler: it's avoidance, and it can look like depression or like doing 100 things at once), why the healthcare system quietly runs on unhealed people trying to heal people, and the three-question process God walked her through on that floor — why, what, how.

We also go somewhere I didn't expect. Megan shares how God told her to go back into an abusive marriage for six months, and what He was actually doing in her while she was there. She's clear, and I want you to hear it: that is not counsel she gives to anyone walking through domestic violence. That was a specific word for a specific season in her life. She did leave.

If you've been managing your life instead of living it, this one's for you.

CONTENT NOTE: This episode includes discussion of domestic violence, sexual abuse, and childhood trauma. If you're in an unsafe situation, the National Domestic Violence Hotline is 1-800-799-7233.

WHAT WE COVER

• Why perfectionism is an addiction most of us would never name as one
• The external stuff (clean house, color-coded everything) vs. the internal stuff (indecision, self-sabotage, negative self-talk)
• Why indecision is perfectionism in a costume
• How burnout culture attracts wounded people trying to heal out of their own mess
• Being stuck as avoidance — and why the busy version and the shut-down version are the same thing underneath
• Megan's honest take on medication: it can buy you capacity, but it can't do the heart work for you
• The three-question process: Why am I activated? What do I need? How do I move forward?
• Taking thoughts captive and measuring them against the fruit of the Spirit
• Why healing with Jesus is gentle instead of retraumatizing
• My own "obedience stronghold" and the gap between what God actually required and what I thought He required
• All abuse is the removal of free will — including the kind that looks like people-pleasing and control
• Being a victim vs. living in victimization
• Breaking generational cycles by apologizing to your kids
• Fear as the root — and what God did about it in a Mexican restaurant parking lot

MEGAN'S ONE NEXT STEP FOR YOU THIS WEEK

Get curious about your nervous system. When your chest grips or your stomach drops, pause before you react. Ask the Holy Spirit why. He designed the alert system; He'll help you read it.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 There's a man in Exodus who buried a body in the sand
02:02 The one question this episode answers
02:14 Welcome — I'm Lenee' Pezzano
03:09 What you need to hear before we start: Megan's caveat
04:00 Content note and hotline
04:31 Season 1 finale, and what's coming in Season 2
05:34 Meet Megan Babcock
06:31 The one word I think of when I think of you: unstuck
08:13 Mother's Day weekend, 2016
09:09 The keys, the door, the meltdown
10:01 Hearing her own childhood come out of her mouth
11:06 The bathroom floor: "I can't live like this anymore"
13:01 Healthcare, scrutiny, and where perfectionism gets fed
14:10 Broken people trying to heal out of a mess
15:08 What the church lost: discipleship and permission to be honest
17:04 Hustle culture, including the Christian version
18:07 The highlight reel vs. what's underneath
19:00 So what does it actually mean to be stuck?
21:12 The rabbit hole you're afraid to go down
22:00 Big T and little T trauma
23:11 Medication, capacity, and what it can't do for you
24:01 A holistic approach, from a nurse
27:02 Taking thoughts captive and reprogramming them
28:00 Rereading the Garden of Eden
29:00 He covered them Himself
30:10 "I could not interpret His heart"
31:04 When perfect love felt like a counterfeit
33:01 God sent her back — and what she wants you to know first
34:00 Taking the kids as retribution
35:06 All abuse is the removal of free will
36:10 A victim vs. living in victimization
37:06 Fight, flight, freeze, fawn
40:06 Recognize the trigger. Pause.
41:00 The story running on a loop
42:10 This isn't self-help
43:00 The same power that raised Jesus
44:04 The five whys
47:08 The root: "I don't feel good enough"
48:00 Why judging and shaming can't change it
49:00 What do I need? A boundary? Forgiveness?
50:08 Trying to perfect my perfectionism
52:03 Crossroads moments
55:02 "Reveal the wicked ways within me"
56:08 Book knowledge vs. revelation
57:02 Deeper levels of healing
59:08 Doing it in my own strength again
1:01:03 Fear at the root
1:04:09 The restaurant, and praying over her son
1:05:06 "Would you trust Me even if she died?"
1:06:02 "I had to change. Not everything else around me."
1:07:00 He takes you in your mess
1:08:06 The one thing you can do this week
1:10:03 Safe people, attachment, and why we can't do it alone
1:13:00 Where to find Megan
1:15:00 Megan prays over you
1:17:06 Four things that struck me
1:18:02 Ask, seek, knock
1:19:05 The Transformation Academy
1:20:04 See you in January

FIND MEGAN

itsyourstorytotell.com — free courses, workshops, Bible studies, book studies, and the It's Your Story to Tell podcast. It's Your Story to Tell is a nonprofit and offers coaching scholarships, because the people who need this most are often in a hard financial season too.

The Unstuck Walkthrough and Worksheet here.

Megan is Vice President of the International Nurse Coaches Association.
Her book: Unstuck

SCRIPTURES BY TOPIC

Everything we touched on today, organized so you can keep studying.

COMING TO GOD BEFORE YOU'RE CLEANED UP
Psalm 34:18 — He is near to the brokenhearted
Psalm 51:17 — a broken and contrite heart is the sacrifice He wants
Matthew 5:3 — blessed are the poor in spirit
Matthew 5:6 — hunger and thirst, and you will be filled

OBEDIENCE FROM LOVE INSTEAD OF FEAR
Romans 8:15 — not a spirit of slavery leading back to fear, but adoption
1 John 4:18 — perfect love casts out fear
Romans 2:4 — it's His kindness that leads us to repentance
Luke 15:25-32 — the elder brother, who never left and never rested

KEEP ASKING
Matthew 7:7-8 — ask, seek, knock
Jeremiah 29:13 — you'll find Him when you search with your whole heart
Matthew 18:3 — come to Him like a child

TAKING THOUGHTS CAPTIVE
2 Corinthians 10:5 — take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ
Galatians 5:22-23 — the fruit of the Spirit, Megan's measuring stick
Romans 12:2 — transformed by the renewing of your mind
Psalm 139:23-24 — search me, know my heart, see if there is any hurtful way in me

LOOKING AT YOUR OWN CHARACTER FIRST
Matthew 7:3-5 — the plank and the speck
1 Samuel 16:7 — man looks at the outside, God looks at the heart
Matthew 23:25-27 — cleaning the outside of the cup

STUCK, STRIVING, AND REST
Matthew 11:28-30 — His yoke is easy, His burden is light
John 15:5 — apart from Me you can do nothing
Luke 10:38-42 — Martha, anxious and troubled about many things
Psalm 32:3-5 — when I kept silent, my bones wasted away
Philippians 4:13, in context — read verses 11-13 together

FEELINGS AS SIGNALS, NOT INSTRUCTIONS
Ephesians 4:26 — be angry and do not sin
Psalm 42:5 — David questions his own soul instead of obeying it
Psalm 139:14 — fearfully and wonderfully made
Proverbs 4:23 — guard your heart, everything flows from it

FREE WILL
Deuteronomy 30:19 — I have set before you life and death; choose life
Joshua 24:15 — choose this day whom you will serve
Revelation 3:20 — He stands at the door and knocks

THE GARDEN, RETOLD
Genesis 3:21 — He clothed them Himself before He sent them out

BREAKING GENERATIONAL CYCLES
1 Peter 1:18 — redeemed from the empty way of life handed down from your ancestors
Ezekiel 18:1-4 — that proverb ends here
Malachi 4:6 — turning the hearts of parents to their children

GRACE, WEAKNESS, AND THE LONG JOURNEY
2 Corinthians 12:9 — His power made perfect in weakness
Philippians 1:6 — He will complete what He began
Lamentations 3:22-23 — mercies new every morning
Philippians 3:12-14 — I have not yet arrived; I press on

WHERE MEGAN STARTED, AND WHERE SHE'LL TAKE YOU
Isaiah 61:1-3 — beauty for ashes
Isaiah 9:6 — Wonderful Counselor

ABOUT THE SHOW

I'm Lenee' Pezzano, and I help women interrupt the patterns th

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Codependency in a Christian marriage rarely looks like what you'd expect. It looks like serving your husband's dinner on a TV tray for seven years. It looks like never having friends of your own. It looks like being the "good Christian wife" on the outside while running on empty on the inside.

In this episode, Tammy Unger — author of the devotional journal Broken to Beloved: Embracing Your Journey to Hope — joins Leneé Pezzano to unpack what codependency actually is, where it comes from, and how it quietly wraps itself around a woman's faith until people-pleasing and devotion start to look like the same thing.

Tammy shares how she learned to set godly boundaries inside a marriage and church community that didn't always understand the changes, why fear — not pride — sits underneath codependency, perfectionism, and people-pleasing alike, and what it looked like to face the spiritual roots underneath the emotional ones after 46 years of marriage.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• What codependency is, and how it's different from ordinary people-pleasing
• Why fear, not pride, is the true root of codependency and perfectionism
• How to set healthy boundaries in a marriage, family, or church community
• What it means to change the motive behind an action instead of just stopping it
• How generational patterns and spiritual strongholds tie into emotional healing
• A simple prayer practice for hearing God's voice more clearly

This conversation is for any Christian woman who has ever felt responsible for everyone else's emotions, mistaken caretaking for love, or wondered why doing "all the right things" still leaves her exhausted.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Tammy Unger's devotional journal, Broken to Beloved: Embracing Your Journey to Hope — tammyunger.com
• Breaking Bondage by Neil Anderson
• Ephesians 3:14-21
• Free Chapter 1 of You Will Make Mistakes by Lenee' Pezzano — leneepezzano.com

🌐 Connect with Lenee' Pezzano and The Redeemed Perfectionist
 
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Perfectionism isn't really about following too many rules — it's the symptom of a deeper fear. In this episode, Lenee' Pezzano shows Christian women how fear-based striving keeps you exhausted and feeling distant from God, and how grace breaks the cycle. Using Harvard psychologist Ellen Langer's work on mindlessness, plus 2 Corinthians 10:5 and Philippians 4:8, you'll discover a grace-rooted way to stop striving and actually rest in who your Father is.

We often think the problem is that we follow too many rules. But the rules are just the surface. Underneath is a hidden chain: we live on autopilot, we never examine the distorted picture of God we were handed, fear takes over, and rule-following becomes a survival strategy for living with a God we're secretly afraid of.

The good news? God addressed this long before modern psychology did — and He didn't just tell us to wake up. He told us what to wake up to.

In this episode:

• Why following all the rules traps you in perfectionism
• The real root beneath your striving (it's not what you think)
• A simple, repeatable practice — Pause, Notice, Turn — for everyday moments
• A gentle way to come to God just as you are and let Him show you His heart
• What actually changes when grace, not fear, sets the pace

If you've been white-knuckling the rules and still feeling far from God, this one's for you.

🕊️ Take the Grace Scale — a short, gentle assessment to see where perfectionism might be showing up across your life, and where grace is waiting to meet you.

📖 Scriptures referenced: Exodus 34:6 · Lamentations 3:22–23 · Psalm 34:18 · Isaiah 42:3 · 2 Corinthians 10:5 · Philippians 4:8 · Mark 9:24

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Have you ever wondered whether the voice you’re hearing is really God—or fear speaking in a convincing disguise?

For years, I believed God’s voice sounded disappointed, demanding, and ready to punish me when I failed. My prayers were filled with apologies, begging, and fear that I might eventually run out of grace. What I did not realize was that Christian perfectionism had distorted the way I heard God.

In this deeply personal episode, I share the speech I delivered on stage about the moment God began exposing the counterfeit voice I had mistaken for His. We’ll explore how fear-based faith turns conviction into condemnation, why trying harder cannot produce lasting freedom, and how grace changes the way we approach God after we sin or struggle.

You’ll discover:

•  How fear, shame, striving, and exhaustion create a repeating perfectionism cycle 
•  Why God’s compassion can feel suspicious when you are accustomed to performance-based love 
•  The difference between conviction that leads you toward God and condemnation that drives you away 
•  Three questions that can reveal what you truly believe about God’s heart 
•  How to approach the throne of grace as a beloved daughter instead of begging like an outsider 

God’s voice may correct you, but it will never contradict His loving and redemptive nature. You do not have to overcome fear, weakness, or temptation through your own strength. Grace invites you to come closer.

Take the Grace Scale Quiz through the link in the show notes to discover how perfectionism may be affecting your faith, relationships, decisions, and ability to rest.

Your worth is not based on your ability to perform for God. The fact that Jesus died for you reveals the value He has already placed upon you.

🌐 Connect with Lenee' Pezzano and The Redeemed Perfectionist
 
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Have you ever done everything right — eaten clean, worked out, taken your vitamins — and still felt like your body was falling apart? For perfectionists, the very habits we believe are keeping us healthy are sometimes the exact things destroying us from the inside out.

In this episode, Lenee' Pezzano sits down with Emily Schwartz, certified nutrition and fitness coach and founder of Whole Hearted Health with Emily, to talk about what happens when a driven, faith-filled woman finally stops performing for her health and starts actually listening to her body. Emily shares her personal journey through hair loss, hormonal disruption, and physical depletion — all while doing everything "right" — and how a simple DNA blueprint revealed what years of specialists couldn't.

Together, Lenee' and Emily go deep on the connection between perfectionism, control, and physical health. They unpack what it really means to rest as an act of faith — not a reward you earn. They teach on the spiritual battle to possess your soul. And Emily shares one simple, practical gratitude strategy you can use today the next time a "not enough" thought rolls in.

This episode is for you if you are exhausted in a way sleep doesn't fix. If you have been running on fumes and calling it faithfulness. If you have ever wondered whether healing is actually possible — not just managed, but real. It is. And this conversation is a step toward it.

In this episode you will learn:

• Why perfectionism shows up in our bodies — and what to do about it
• How a DNA blueprint revealed the root of Emily's anxiety, hair loss, and hormonal imbalance
• What the Bible actually says about rest — and why it is an act of faith, not a reward
• How to possess your soul when life feels out of control
• A simple gratitude strategy to redirect "not enough" thinking

Connect with Emily Schwartz:
Wholeheartedhealthwithemily.com | The Whole-Hearted Truths Podcast | Emily Schwartz on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube Channel

Connect with Lenee':
leneepezzano.com | Grace Scale Quiz | Redeemed Perfectionist Facebook Community

Scripture referenced: Matthew 11:28, 2 Corinthians 10:5, Philippians 4:8, Luke 21:19, Ephesians 6:18, Romans 12:2, Psalm 139:14

🌐 Connect with Lenee' Pezzano and The Redeemed Perfectionist
 
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Have you ever felt like your brain is going in a hundred directions at once — while your inner critic keeps telling you that you are not doing enough, not obeying fast enough, or not measuring up spiritually?

In this episode of The Redeemed Perfectionist, Leneé Pezzano closes out the ADHD, perfectionism, and faith series with Emily Morrone, an ADHD coach and licensed pastoral counselor. Together, they talk about the connection between ADHD, perfectionism, nervous system safety, rejection sensitivity, spiritual shame, and learning to rest in Jesus.

Emily shares how ADHD can show up as internal hyper-awareness, emotional overwhelm, control, avoidance, rejection sensitivity, and difficulty staying present. She also explains the green, yellow, and red zones of nervous system regulation — and how those states can affect the way we relate to God, ourselves, and others.

This conversation is especially for the high-achieving Christian woman who loves God deeply but still feels afraid of disappointing Him. If you have ever confused obedience with pressure, struggled to believe God is safe, or felt like your ADHD symptoms were proof of spiritual failure, this episode will help you begin seeing yourself through the lens of grace instead of shame.

Together, Leneé and Emily talk about:

•  Why ADHD is not a character flaw or spiritual failure 
•  How perfectionism can distort the way we see God 
•  Why rejection sensitivity can feel so intense for the ADHD brain 
•  What nervous system safety has to do with faith 
•  How control and avoidance may be signs of feeling threatened 
•  Why small steps matter in your walk with Jesus 
•  What it means to come to God with belief and unbelief 
•  How to begin rebuilding trust with God when He does not feel safe yet 
•  Why your mustard seed of faith really is enough to begin 

If you are tired of striving, overthinking, shutting down, or trying to fix everything immediately, this episode is an invitation to stop calling yourself broken and start asking, “Lord, what are You showing me about how You made me, how You love me, and how You want to lead me?”

God is not waiting for you to become perfect before He draws near.
 He is here now.
 He is gentle now.
 And He is a safe place.

CONNECT WITH EMILY
Facebook Group: Equipped Coaching | Facebook

Support Group for Christian Moms of Anxious Kids: Christian Moms of Anxious Kids (Support Group) | Facebook

GRACE SCALE QUIZ - Part with Perfectionism.

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Have you done the Bible studies, declared the truth out loud, been to counseling — and still feel stuck? What if that's not a faith problem? What if it's a wiring problem?

In this powerful bonus episode, I'm joined by transformational coach and Kingdom neurocoaching trainer Raven Van Asten, founder of Kumi Collective, who has spent over 29 years helping people understand how the brain forms beliefs, stores trauma, and — here's the good news — how God designed us to be rewired from the inside out.

This isn't self-help. This isn't new age. This is Romans 12:2 made practical.

Together we're talking about:

✦ What "vain imaginations" actually means in the Greek — and why your looping thoughts aren't a discipline problem
 ✦ How limiting beliefs get wired into your nervous system (and why willpower alone can't undo them)
 ✦ The reconsolidation window — the God-designed 6-hour window where the brain forms new neural networks after healing work
 ✦ What it looks like when the Holy Spirit walks into a memory and rewrites it with His presence
 ✦ How perfectionism is often rooted in shame — and what freedom actually looks and feels like
 ✦ Why brain rewiring and Biblical truth aren't in conflict — they were always meant to work together

Whether you've been stuck in the same belief system for years, you're a coach or counselor looking to expand how you help others get free, or you simply want God to feel like a safe space again — this episode is for you.

For coaches, counselors, and ministry leaders: Raven's 12-week Kingdom Neuro Coaching Certification begins June 29th. Mention The Redeemed Perfectionist and receive an automatic $400 scholarship. Links in show notes.

For listeners who want to receive this work personally: I am currently in training for certification and will be offering individual and small group sessions. Email [email protected] with the word WAITLIST in the subject line. 

Healing doesn't have to be dramatic. It just has to be surrendered.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To connect with Raven:
Email:  [email protected]
Visit her website at:  www.kumicollective.com .
Apply here for a seat in the upcoming Kingdom Neuro Coaching training and certification.

🌐 Connect with Lenee' Pezzano and The Redeemed Perfectionist
 
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If you've ever had a theology of a good Father but a nervous system that still doesn't believe it — this episode is where we go next.

In Part 2 of this two-part conversation, I sit back down with Dr. Ashleigh Moreland — neurophysiologist, therapist, and founder of the ReMind Institute — to pick up right where we left off. We go beyond the science of perfectionism and anxiety and get into what healing actually looks like when the sheep stops fighting to escape the mountain and finally lets the Shepherd come in.

In this episode we cover:

• What it looks like to stop performing for God and actually let Him father you
• The neuroscience behind why we literally cannot heal as well in isolation — and what Dr. Ash accidentally discovered in her PhD research about community, oxytocin, and the brain's capacity for change
• The inheritance that matters more than anything you could leave in a bank account
• ADHD, perfectionism, and what it means to live in harmony with how you're wired instead of fighting it
• Dr. Ash's "Tong Theory" and why your diagnosis doesn't get to be your ceiling
• What happened during worship that Dr. Ash hadn't shared with anyone — until this conversation
• How to move from repenting out of fear to repenting from a place of grace
• Why faith is the opposite of control — and how that changes everything for the perfectionist

Whether you're navigating anxiety, perfectionism, relational trauma, or a complicated relationship with God, this conversation will give you hope that healing is not only possible — it's already in motion.

🎧 New here? Start with Episode 031 — Part 1 of this conversation. 

Take the Grace Scale Quiz and find Lenee’s book, You Will Make Mistakes: Discovering God’s Grace in the Midst of Perfectionism, at leneepezzano.com.

Connect with Dr. Ash here:
- ReMIND Institute

- Facebook

- Instagram

- LinkedIn

🌐 Connect with Lenee' Pezzano and The Redeemed Perfectionist
 
        🔗 www.leneepezzano.com – Explore Resources & More
        
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In Part 1 of this powerful two-part conversation, Lenee’ Pezzano sits down with Dr. Ashleigh Moreland, a neurophysiologist, therapist, and founder of the Re-Mind Institute, to talk about perfectionism, anxiety, the nervous system, identity, faith, and the God who goes after the one.

Ashleigh shares how, in science, outlier data is often excluded so the results look cleaner — but Jesus does not exclude the outlier. He goes after her. Together, Lenee’ and Ashleigh explore what happens when perfectionism becomes protection, when the brain starts scanning for threats, and when love, safety, and worth become tied to performance.

If you have ever felt like you have tried everything — prayer, journaling, counseling, worship, discipline, repentance, and “I’ll do better next time” pep talks — but still feel stuck, this episode will help you understand that your struggle is not evidence that you are broken beyond repair.

It may be evidence that somewhere along the way, your nervous system learned to protect you from pain — and now God wants to meet you there with truth, safety, love, and renewal.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

How perfectionism can become a safety strategy
 Why your brain may constantly scan for threats
 How past experiences shape your present view of God, yourself, and others
 Why fear of punishment can distort your relationship with God
 The difference between the brain and the mind
 Why renewing the mind is more than behavior change
 How Jesus comes after the outlier instead of excluding her

This is Part 1 of a two-part series with Dr. Ashleigh Moreland. In Part 2, we will continue the conversation into what it looks like to practice coming to God just as you are — and how His fathering heart begins to reshape the way you live, love, parent, lead, forgive, and surrender.

Take the Grace Scale Quiz and find Lenee’s book, You Will Make Mistakes: Discovering God’s Grace in the Midst of Perfectionism, at leneepezzano.com.

Connect with Dr. Ash here:
- ReMIND Institute

- Facebook

- Instagram

- LinkedIn

🌐 Connect with Lenee' Pezzano and The Redeemed Perfectionist
 
        🔗 www.leneepezzano.com – Explore Resources & More
        
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If you’ve ever found yourself wondering…

“Why does everything feel so hard—even when I’m trying my best?”
“Why can’t I stay consistent with God, my goals, or my routines?”
“Why do I feel overwhelmed, behind, or like I’m failing?”

This episode is for you.

In today’s conversation on The Redeemed Perfectionist Podcast, we’re diving into the powerful and often misunderstood connection between ADHD, perfectionism, and faith—especially for high-achieving Christian women.

Joined by coach Cassie Miller, we unpack what ADHD actually looks like beyond the stereotypes, and why so many women silently struggle with overwhelm, emotional sensitivity, procrastination, and all-or-nothing thinking.

But more importantly—we talk about God’s heart in the middle of it all.

Because this isn’t just about productivity.
 It’s about identity.
 It’s about grace.
 And it’s about breaking free from the belief that you have to “get it right” to be loved by God.

✨ In this episode, you’ll learn:

•  What ADHD really is (and why it’s not a character flaw) 
•  Why high-achieving women are often overlooked or undiagnosed 
•  How perfectionism can develop as a response to overwhelm 
•  The difference between internal struggle and external appearance 
•  Practical ways to reduce overwhelm and build momentum 
•  How to quiet self-criticism and release shame 
•  What it looks like to walk with God in grace—not performance 

If your faith has started to feel heavy…
 If your mind feels loud…
 If you’ve been striving to stay consistent but keep falling into the same patterns…

this episode will help you feel seen, understood, and equipped with a new way forward.

And friend—this is just the beginning.

This episode is part one of a series where we’re going to go deeper into what this looks like in your daily life, how to navigate overwhelm in real time, and how to step into a rhythm of grace that actually feels sustainable.

If you’re ready to go deeper in breaking free from perfectionism, you can also explore my book, You Will Make Mistakes: Discovering God's Grace in the Midst of Perfectionism, where I share the journey God walked me through to move from striving to freedom.

🎧 Press play and discover what it looks like to move from performance to partnership… and from exhaustion to grace.

🌐 Connect with Lenee' Pezzano and The Redeemed Perfectionist
 
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