The RegenNarration

Earlier this year, Associate Professor in Law, Alessandro Pelizzon, was on the podcast talking about some of the latest global paradigm shifting developments in our legal systems. A couple of weeks ago, there was another such development. The EU is going to criminalise severe environmental harms ‘comparable to ecocide’. And related to that, it’s also broaching post-growth economies. All part of broader shifts in deciding what we value most, and how our systems can best change to reflect that.

With this in mind, we also go on to talk about what Alessandro is observing in our media systems - the emergence of a new phase of ‘climate-denialism’, and from some people who have great appeal to many of us, and in a variety of ways, from Elon Musk to Jordan Peterson. How to make sense of that? And to what extent might this be related to the paradigm shifts above?

That leads us to the broader question, what do we do about media? We compare notes on what’s been brewing on and around the podcast lately. And to close, we get a brief update on the Resonant Earth project that Alessandro has co-founded and talked about last time.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully serves to provide greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

This was recorded on 24 November 2023.

Title slide: from a media release about the EU agreement (source).

Music:
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, off the soundtrack for the film Regenerating Australia.

Find more:
Hear more from Alessandro, most recently on episode 159 in the northern rivers in April of this year (with further links): on the collapse & renewal of universities, the education we need, & latest on Rights of Nature.

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You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

Today is a special release ahead of this week’s scheduled episode. It was recorded with a full house of over 400 people in the main theatre at Federation Square in Melbourne, for the memorial service of my late great mate and mentor, and legend in systems thinking – and practice – in this country, Professor Frank Fisher. Mine was a humble opener for a few beautiful eulogies offered on the day.

Today would be, or is, Frank’s 80th birthday. I’ve commemorated the occasion in recent years with episodes featuring fittingly special guests – from the late Hazel Henderson, to the still thriving Allan Savory, Charlie Massy and Paul Hawken. This time, for the big 8-0, I’d been imagining Frank still being here, wondering where our conversations and experiences may have gone over the years. And that took me back to this event, and the best tribute story I could muster at the time. And hard as it was, there did seem to be a bit of magic about.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully serves to provide greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

This was recorded on 15 September 2012, with deep gratitude to friend and film-maker Chris Grose, who gave so much of himself without notice, to film hours of footage of Frank in the months before he died, along with this event.

Title slide: from the back of the room, with Fran Macdonald speaking (credit: Rodney Dekker).

See more photos on the episode web page, and to see more from behind the scenes, become a subscriber via the Patreon page.

Music:
Cycles, by Simon Edwards (composed for the occasion). Simon is also guitarist for the incredible Afrobiotics and Public Opinion Afro Orchestra.

Find more:
You can hear from Frank himself, with legendary ABC broadcaster Robyn Williams, on episode 24, The Wilderness Within.

And in an interview an early podcast listener sent in, from the Serbian program on SBS radio, on episode 5: Thinking & Living in Systems.

The Understandascope, founded in 2005 by Frank with cartoonist and National Living Treasure, Michael Leunig, is now home for the development of Frank’s legacy in collaboration with family, friends and former colleagues.

And the book mentioned by the publisher at the end, was Frank’s anthology: Response Ability: Environment, Health & Everyday Transcendence.

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Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

Brooke Purvis is a podcast listener who reached out after hearing the most recent episode with Chris Henggeler from Kachana Station last month. She wondered if she could help with the ‘donkey situation’ there. It turns out she’s co-founded something called the Last Stop Donkey Program, out of Singleton in the Hunter Valley of NSW.

Brooke and husband Heath say they saw many people looking to purchase donkeys in an attempt to combat growing stock losses from dingo attacks, as donkeys are renowned for their stock protecting capabilities. Their website explains: ‘There was only one problem, donkeys are hard to come by. However, in the Northern Territory and Queensland they are classified as pests and eradication measures are in place, usually aerial culling.’ Well, we know we can add WA to the culling list, of course.

So, partnering with the local school, would you believe, the Last Stop Donkey Program was born - taking in wild donkeys, re-socialising them, and training prospective owners before they purchase the donkeys. But that doesn’t begin to describe what’s happening there, only two years in. From broader education and even donkey therapy programs, to enormously positive ramifications for country and those stewarding it. From the promise of major financial benefits to farmers and the public coffers, to revolutionising how we might view so-called ‘pest’ animals in this country – right through to our Apex predator, the dingo.

Along the way, the donkeys are transforming this former horse-riding champ, and the growing number of people the program is reaching. And offering the ultimate prospect of stitching our landscapes and communities back together again.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully serves to provide greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

This conversation was recorded on 20 November 2023.

Title slide: donkey (supplied).

Music:
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, off the soundtrack for the film Regenerating Australia.

Find more:
Last Stop Donkey Program.

Eight minute video from Landline on the ABC.

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Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

This is an excerpt of one of the most pivotal conversations on the podcast this year. So many conversations since, and attempts to navigate the paradigm change talked about here, have come back to this launch event, and the stories expressed in it. Having just returned from the Re:Connection Festival in the northern rivers, and a little tour around it, I’ll have more out on the podcast soon about some of this trailblazing work going on.

This conversation marked the launch of a major report and project by not-for-profit outfit, Sustainable Table (you might remember Jade Miles, current CEO, talking about it on last week’s episode). I’m joined here by two international guests – the CEO of Cienega Capital, Esther Park, and the CEO of Steward, Dan Miller. And alongside us are co-founder of the global Wellbeing Economy Alliance, Dr Katherine Trebeck, and regenerative farmer and lead author of the Regenerating Investment in Food and Farming report, Tanya Massy.

We pick it up from about the 40 minute mark, where the panel is gathering steam with some ‘real game changers’ coming on, including stories from around the world on how and where paradigm changes in investment are being achieved right now. Then there’s Q&A featuring other prominent folk around Australia, re-framing questions of scale, working in or outside existing systems, and vital processes of learning and transformation.

To hear the conversation in full, and see a range of links, head to episode 161, Regenerating Investment in Food & Farming.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully provides greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

This conversation was recorded online with live audience while I was at the Massy farm, Severn Park, on 20 April 2023.

Title slide: regeneration of food and farming in action (source: Sustainable Table). 

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Support the show

Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

Rachel Ward is a famed actress, film-maker and now farmer. Jade Miles is the CEO of Sustainable Table, author of Futuresteading, and steward of the incredible Black Barn Farm. We shared this conversation with a live audience after a screening of Rachel’s brilliant documentary, Rachel’s Farm. It was a curtain raiser to the Regenerative Agriculture Conference in Margaret River WA, and the penultimate event of Rachel’s film tour of 30 or so locations around the country.

That lent a certain perspective to this conversation – a kind of overview of the movement, and the country. And that met Jade’s vantage point, also touring the country and researching the world with a different lens, as CEO of Sustainable Table. You might recall their launch event which became episode 161 earlier this year, Regenerating Investment in Food & Farming.

Unsurprisingly, talking with these two women at this time resulted in a very personal, hard-hitting, and inspired take on where things are at, what’s coming down the line, and the stories helping to make it happen.

You’ll hear the 3 of us in conversation for the first 15 minutes or so, then we interweave into our chat a handful of questions from the audience - who are also among the regenerative pioneers in this country.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully serves to provide greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

This conversation was recorded on 5 September 2023.

Title slide: Jade Miles and Rachel Ward on stage (pic: Olivia Cheng).

Music:
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, off the soundtrack for the film Regenerating Australia.

Find more:
To screen the film, gain access to resources etc., head to the Rachel’s Farm website.

You can hear Rachel and Anthony in conversation just before the film’s premiere and tour, with Rachel’s co-star Mick Green, in episode 168.

You’ll find Jade at Black Barn Farm, Sustainable Table, and on episode 128 of this podcast: Operating at Human Speed. Stay tuned for more on her next book soon.

This conversation took place after a screening of Rachel’s Farm, as a curtain raiser to the Regenerative Agriculture conference 2023.

Join us at the RE:CONNECTION Festival this weekend (subscribers get a 10% discount – subscribe and see the discount code on the recent posts on Patreon).

Send us a voicemail

Support the show

Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

It’s all go here now for the upcoming RE:CONNECTION Festival. But there are other reasons for this excerpt today. So many of my conversations these days, including after the Voice Referendum here in Australia, for example, come back to this part of episode 170 with Tim Hollo, author of ‘Living Democracy: An ecological manifesto for the end of the world as we know it’. And particularly the part where he said:

“And I asked Amanda if there was a secret ingredient that sits behind it [the incredible success stories she’s worked on]. And what she told me has just echoed in my head forever since. And she just said simply, ‘don’t ask people to pick a side’.”

We go on to talk here about the late great Elinor Ostrom, the first woman to win the Nobel Prize for economics. I had never heard of her till just prior to this episode. But she’s a big part of Tim’s book, and I later learned a big influence on previous guest Charles Massy, and an upcoming guest Charles introduced me to, former investment banker Justyn Walsh.

A number of people said to me at the time that this episode completely changed the way they think and feel about what’s possible. Perhaps this excerpt can help us through this particular moment, and guide us back, or further, to the work that we know actually does bring people together and, quite often, results in outcomes that are genuinely extraordinary - but on the other hand, could very well become the norm.

To hear the conversation in full, head to episode 170, ‘Changing What’s Possible’.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully provides greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

This conversation was recorded on Little Black Mountain in Canberra on 17 April 2023.

Title slide: overlooking the nation’s capital Canberra, on another walk up a hill (pic: Anthony James).

For behind the scenes footage and other benefits, including helping to keep the podcast going, please consider becoming a subscriber via the Patreon page.

Music:
Now to the Future, by FourPlay String Quartet (featuring Tim Hollo).

Find more:
Join us at the RE:CONNECTION Festival in the norther rivers of NSW on 11 November 2023 (become a subscriber to get a discount – you’ll find the code in recent posts in Patreon).

Send us a voicemail

Support the show

Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

Welcome to part two of Coming to a Head in the Kimberley, featuring one of the great stories of regeneration, and one of the most spectacular regions in the world, at a time when both are acutely on the line. Join us back at Kachana Station in the East Kimberley, with award-winning regenerative pastoralist Chris Henggeler.

We pick up the conversation from part one here, on the latest with the donkey situation. Since we last visited Kachana, the state department that ordered the donkeys at Kachana be shot as pests, and the Henggeler family that has geared their behavior towards regeneration, have been in mediation at the State Administrative Tribunal. The Tribunal’s adjudication on that appeal is due before year’s end. It will carry with it the fate of the donkeys at Kachana, and with that the fate of a potential game-changer in regeneration at scale across the region – at a time when it’s desperately needed.

We talk here about the latest developments, research, language, history and other complexities on the matter - including the donkeys the Henggelers do shoot at Kachana. And we end up comparing notes on Chris’s related personal efforts with some paradigm changing health practices.

This thoughtful dialogue plunges into the intricate ties between biodiversity and domestication, sparking intriguing debates on managing both wild and domestic animals. We ponder over the immense significance of local wisdom and nature-informed decision-making in sculpting our future. It's an enlightening journey that challenges our understanding of relationships and responsibility, both towards ourselves and our planet.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect).

This episode was recorded at Kachana Station on 23 August 2023.

Title slide: Kachana Station (pic: Anthony James).

See more photos on the episode web page, and to see more from behind the scenes, become a subscriber via the Patreon page.

Music:
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, off the soundtrack for the film Regenerating Australia.

Find more:
You can hear part one of this conversation (with photos and links), at Coming to a Head in the Kimberley: On regenerating consciousness, community and Country.

Resilient Earth, composed by Sheila Silver, featuring a piece called Shooting Ruminants, inspired by experiences like Kachana Station.

RE:CONNECTION Festival.

Kachana through kid’s eyes, on ep.15 of the Yeshe Interviews podcast on Spotify.

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Support the show

Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

Chris Henggeler and his family manage Kachana Station in the East Kimberley, only accessible by foot or air. They took responsibility for this desertified and abandoned country, and have achieved some incredible regeneration, culminating last year in a State Soil Health Champion award. Yet with still vast lands desertifying around them, and so much opportunity to build on models like Kachana, we recorded an episode out there two years ago titled Wanted Land Doctors. Now the second most popular episode on this podcast, it was a powerful invitation for the next generations to join the fray, and how the rest of us can help them do it. But there is trouble afoot.

The regeneration at Kachana Station has incorporated and relied on not just cattle, but wild donkeys. The bond these animals share with this Station family is clear. But just before we recorded that episode two years ago, the state department ordered the family to gun them down as pests. The Henggelers appealed the order. And the State Tribunal process adjudicating on that appeal is coming to a head in a few weeks.

In parallel, you could say, the Kimberley itself is coming to a head. Forecast to suffer unliveable heat in the coming decades, with ‘climate refugees’ already heading south, and worsening floods like this year's at Fitzroy Crossing.

So this week, Chris and I draw some of the broader patterns together. And we hear the latest on how they're being turned around at Kachana, and beyond. That leads us to a deep dive on some of the best stories, thinking and intuitive wisdom we’re coming across, that are helping more heads and hearts come together across divides, to make more of the good stuff happen.

Next week, part 2 of this episode will feature a full and telling update on the donkey situation.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect).

Recorded on 23 August 2023.

Title slide: Chris Henggeler & friends (pic: Anthony James).

See more photos on the episode web page, and to see more from behind the scenes, become a subscriber via the Patreon page.

Music:
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, off the soundtrack for the film Regenerating Australia.

Find more:
Kachana Station.

You can hear the previous chat with Chris in ep.100, Wanted Land Doctors (with more photos and links on that web page).

The change in land tenure at El Questro.

RE:CONNECTION Festival.

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Support the show

Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

Heidi Mippy is a Noongar and Thiin-Mah Warriyangka woman, and a pioneer in Aboriginal education support and community development. For over 25 years, Heidi’s been leading and sharing in many brilliant success stories, with renowned integrity, smarts and spirit. Here, Heidi joins Anthony in the lead up to Australia’s national referendum on an Aboriginal Voice to Parliament this weekend, with no predetermined agenda, clear cut positions, or knowledge of what each other was thinking, going in. We hope this very personal and raw conversation adds something to your deliberations too, as the referendum approaches, and beyond.

In an atmosphere charged with emotions and complexities, Heidi and Anthony unravel layers of history, government initiatives, and community expectations. From the polarising conversations within the community to the anxieties that cloud the day after the referendum. We also examine the potential of the referendum, and the Uluru Statement as a whole, and the challenges that loom ahead either way.

But this isn't just about the referendum. It's about the power of community, the potency of 'what ifs', and how to harness that together to finally address our most urgent of needs, and realise our greatest of opportunities.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully serves to provide greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

Recorded online on 9 October 2023. And produced with human intelligence.

Title slide: Heidi Mippy (sourced here).

Music:
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, off the soundtrack for the film Regenerating Australia.

Find more:
Heidi Mippy on LinkedIn.

Voice to Parliament referendum 2023.

Australian government fact sheet on the Voice.

You can hear the previous time Heidi was on the podcast in ep.143, Visited by the Rainbow Serpert. (There are photos on that web page too)

Biodiversity Conference 2023.

The best-selling book Heidi wrote a chapter for, Rising Matriarch.

RE:CONNECTION Festival.

Send us a voicemail

Support the show

Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!

Welcome back to Fitzroy Crossing. Jimmy Dillon Andrews is a highly respected Bunuba elder and founder of Bungoolee Tours, nationally renowned for the cultural experiences it guides people through. These include journeys deep beneath the limestone of the Napier Range into Tunnel Creek, and through the heart of the incredible Windjana Gorge, carved from a 35O million year old Devonian Reef. The spiritual significance of these places to the Bunuba people is immense, having tended all this for at least 46,000 years.

They’re also central to the legend of famed Aboriginal warrior Jandamarra. Jimmy is a descendent of Jandamarra, describing him as a ‘man of magical power’. The story of Jandamarra is one of this Country’s most gripping and important ones, that still too few of us know about. So we’re fortunate to hear Jimmy share it here. Along with some other stories foundational to this Country, from footy, to of course the extraordinary flood this year.

We go on to explore the keys to his enterprise success, and his visions for the future (along with the Voice referendum). And all with Jimmy’s unhurried, quietly spoken gravitas - as if whispering long-accrued secrets of Country. Join us, on a now dry patch of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River bed, by the old Fitzroy Crossing.

Head here for automatic cues to chapter markers (also available on the embedded player on the episode web page), and a transcript of this conversation (please note the transcript is AI generated and imperfect, but hopefully serves to provide greater access to these conversations for those who need or like to read).

Recorded on the bed of the Martuwarra Fitzroy River at the old Fitzroy Crossing on 9 August 2023.

Title slide: Jimmy Dillon Andrews during the conversation (pic: Olivia Cheng).

See more photos on the episode web page, and to see more from behind the scenes, become a subscriber via the Patreon page.

Music:
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden, off the soundtrack for the film Regenerating Australia.

Song performed live by Jimmy Dillon Andrews.

Find more:
Bungoolee Tours.

For more photos of the Martuwarra and Fitzroy Crossing, see the episode web page of ep.176 with Natalie Davey. And tune into the conversation for more on the flood and brilliant regenerative efforts.

Support the community here or here.

You can hear the conversation with Petrine McCrohan in ep.106, Therapeutic & Cultural Economies (poignantly, the cover slide photo was taken on the fallen bridge).

Send us a voicemail

Support the show

Please share this episode or the trailer with a friend, follow the podcast, and subscribe if you can.

The RegenNarration is independent and ad-free, with hundreds of episodes freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you're enjoying the podcast, I hope you'll consider becoming a paid subscriber, from as little as around $1 a week, to gain access to a great community, subscriber events and giveaways, and to help keep the show going, on Patreon or Substack (where you'll find some writing, photography and tunes too).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event soon, even the shop. Thanks so much for your support!