In this episode of The Resilience Lab, recorded live at the Workspaces Conference in Napa, Rex Miller sits down with Sara Escobar and Corrine Murray, co-authors of the new book Work Then Place: a bold reframing of how organizations should think about work, leadership, and the workplace.

With decades of experience spanning Hulu, Netflix, Riot Games, CBRE, WeWork, and American Express, Sara and Corrine bring rare, hard-earned insight into why so many workplace strategies fail…and what actually works.

This conversation goes beyond office design and hybrid policy debates to tackle the real issues holding organizations back:

• Why defining work must come before designing place
• How fear and outdated management models undermine performance
• Why behavior change, not buildings, is the hardest and most essential challenge
• What leaders and managers need to do differently to create resilient, high-performing teams
• How to operationalize purpose, measure real work, and adapt in constant change

If you’re a leader, manager, workplace strategist, HR professional, or anyone navigating the future of work, this episode offers practical insight, grounded frameworks, and a clear call to rethink how work actually gets done.

This isn’t about perks, ping-pong tables, or mandates.


It’s about making work suck less…on purpose.

Subscribe to The Resilience Lab for conversations on resilience, leadership, workplace strategy, and the human side of performance, and share this episode with someone who’s wrestling with how work is changing.

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By the 1990s, Patrick MacLeamy had seen enough.

Projects were slipping. RFIs were exploding. Clients were frustrated. And as Virtual Design and Construction (VDC) entered the industry, it exposed a hard truth: the problem wasn’t talent, it was the system.

In Part 2 of this conversation, Patrick MacLeamy explains why he refused to accept “that’s construction” as an answer—and how one uncomfortable question led him into a small, unlikely collaboration that helped lay the foundation for modern project delivery.

This episode traces the origin of:

* Open standards and object-based coordination

* The early thinking behind BIM and interoperability

* A leadership mindset focused on fixing systems, not blaming people

But this isn’t history for history’s sake.

Thirty years later, the same forces, complexity, fragmentation, and outdated assumptions, are pressing on our industry again. This episode is for anyone working in architecture, construction, or workplace strategy who feels we’re stuck and wonders what it takes to change course.

If you’ve ever looked at the way we work and thought, this isn’t good enough, this conversation is for you.

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Before Patrick MacLeamy led HOK, or drew the sketch that reshaped how the world delivers buildings, he was a kid growing up inside an oil refinery, learning resilience the hard way. This is the untold origin story of a pioneer who didn’t wait for permission to change the industry.

In this episode, you’ll follow Patrick’s hero’s journey, from refinery fences to the drafting boards at Illinois, through the scrappy early years of HOK, the near-death crises, the mentors, the mistakes, and the moments that nearly broke him but ultimately made him.

Patrick faced the same problems we all face: doubt, setbacks, resistance, broken systems, and he chose to push forward anyway. His story explains seminal moments in our industry's history and gives you a blueprint for shaping its future.

If you’ve ever felt the tug to challenge the status quo, to do work that matters, or to become the kind of leader who leaves things better than they found them, this episode is that invitation.

Press play. Your call to adventure starts here.

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In our last solo episode, we met Debra—the talented but disruptive teammate who quietly eroded trust and derailed her team. If you missed that story, go back and listen first—it sets the stage for today’s conversation.

In this episode of The Resilience Lab, Rex Miller shares how managers and teams can prevent the next Debra situation by creating clarity around the behaviors they celebrate, tolerate, and cannot allow. Through real stories—from a school furniture distributor to a European team plagued by a “shit stirrer”—you’ll learn a simple but powerful framework called the Boat Model.

By the end, you’ll know how to reset your team’s rules of engagement, shift accountability from one manager to the whole group, and protect the trust that keeps your team moving forward.

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What does it take to change a system that feels stuck? Trevor Hartley says you don’t start at the bottom—you start from the top of the mountain, looking down. That’s the power of foresight: leading from the future back into the present.

In this conversation, Trevor shares unforgettable images—from “robbing the grave” of untapped potential, to confronting the “cat fur” of fear that paralyzes our ability to play, imagine, and learn. His project Re:Story Together is a living experiment in South Africa, but his insights speak to anyone who wants to replace despair with hope and unlock hidden genius in the next generation.

If you’ve ever wondered how to bring change to a place that feels soul-killing, Trevor’s story will remind you: resilience isn’t just about bouncing back—it’s about reframing destiny.

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Every leader eventually meets a “Debra”—the teammate who delivers results but creates drama and leaves a trail of frustrated team members in her wake. She’s smart, capable, maybe even indispensable. But her behavior slowly erodes trust, morale, and momentum.

In this episode of The Resilience Lab, Rex Miller unpacks a real story of a leader wrestling with a Debra on his team. You’ll hear how toxic talent hides behind competence, why managers struggle to confront it, and what really happens when behavior issues go unaddressed.

If you’ve ever felt trapped between protecting performance and preserving culture, this episode will show you why ignoring a Debra isn’t an option—and how naming the problem is the first step toward resilience.

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What does it truly mean to design your life—not just your workspace? In this episode of The Resilience Lab, Rex Miller chats with Dianne Kimiko, founder of Kimiko Designs and Kimiko Green, on the deck of the Tarkett showroom during NeoCon Design Days—Chicago trains rumbling by in the background.

Dianne’s journey takes us from choosing furniture over funeral homes early in her career to building a design practice grounded in curiosity, sustainability, and resilience. She explains how asking “why” can transform projects, how saying “no” became one of her most powerful leadership tools, and why 17 billion pounds of office furniture ending up in landfills annually is both a challenge and an opportunity.

Whether you’re reevaluating your career, your workplace, or how to make more sustainable choices, Dianne’s perspective will open your eyes to what’s possible when design goes beyond spaces to shape the way we live and lead.

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Forget rehearsed soundbites. This is the kind of conversation where you lean in, lose track of time, and walk away seeing the world differently. Recorded on an iPhone in the lively chaos of Design Days at the MillerKnoll Showroom, Rex Miller and Ryan Anderson dive into an unscripted exchange about what the future of work really looks like when you zoom out — and then in.

As MillerKnoll’s VP of Global Research and Insights, Ryan gathers input, research, and conversations from across the globe, spotting patterns others miss. He likens this moment to standing before a Monet — the colors, textures, and brushstrokes of the human experience of work are blurring old certainties and reshaping how we see the workplace.

Listen for how Ryan is seeing the office anew — as a counterbalance to digital overload, a stage for unplanned human moments, and a canvas for building belonging. You’ll hear the questions he’s asking leaders to help them rethink not just the space, but the purpose it serves.

Monet’s work transformed the way people understood art, forcing viewers to step closer, look differently, and rethink what was possible on a canvas. Today, we’re at a similar inflection point — one where the way we see, design, and experience the workplace is ready to be reimagined through entirely new eyes.

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Every industry has its stars — the ones who know the game, hit the numbers, and climb the ladder. But what happens when you realize the ladder’s leaning against the wrong wall? That’s the moment Sid Meadows faced when he walked away from a secure, high-profile career in the contract furniture world to start over on his own terms.

In this conversation, recorded live at NeoCon in the Sandow Podcast booth, Sid shares his “Jerry Maguire moment” — the leap from chasing deals to chasing meaning. He opens up about the fear, the freedom, and the surprising lessons learned from building his own path. From redefining success to mentoring the next generation, Sid’s story is a masterclass in trusting your gut and holding fast to your values.

If you work in facilities, corporate real estate, design, or workplace strategy, this is more than a career conversation. It’s an invitation to ask yourself the same question Sid did: What am I really here to do? And am I brave enough to do it?

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In Moneyball, the owner of the Boston Red Sox tells Billy Beane, “The first one through the wall always gets bloody.” That’s where Kay Sargent stands today. As Director of Workplace at HOK and author of Designing Neuro-Inclusive Workplaces, she’s breaking through a wall our industry has quietly built — the unspoken assumptions about how spaces should work for people who think, sense, and process the world differently.

Neurodiversity in the workplace isn’t tidy. It’s complex, it’s personal, and it sparks strong opinions. Kay steps into that complexity with eight years of research, a career of leadership, and the lived experience of raising five children, some of whom navigate the world differently. She’s not just adding to the conversation — she’s creating a new category of it, one that challenges the safe, performative gestures and invites real, sometimes uncomfortable, change.

In this episode, you’ll hear how designing for the edges benefits everyone in the middle, why “one size misfits all,” and how even small, intentional changes can transform a person’s ability to thrive. If you’re in facilities, corporate real estate, design, or workplace strategy, this is more than a professional conversation — it’s a chance to rethink the spaces you influence, the people you serve, and the courage it takes to go first.

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