The Scott Horton Show from The Libertarian Institute

Scott talks to Peter Lee about the ongoing Uyghur controversy in China. The Chinese government, he says, is trying to integrate their minority Uyghur Muslim population, as part of their larger project to urbanize and centralize China. There is growing concern, especially on the American right, that these efforts represent an outright genocide, with claims of mass forced birth control and up to a million people in detention centers. These fears, Lee says, tend to be exaggerated—though what the Chinese government is doing might be something more like cultural genocide. He stresses that it is important to acknowledge the horrors faced by many citizens of China's authoritarian government, without using something like this as an excuse to advocate war.

Discussed on the show:

"Peter Lee's China Threat Report" (Patreon)

China Matters

Sterilizations, IUDs, and Mandatory Birth Control: The CCP’s Campaign to Suppress Uyghur Birthrates in Xinjiang

"2/19/21 Gareth Porter on the Misleading Data Behind Uyghur Genocide Claims" (The Libertarian Institute)

"US State Department accusation of China 'genocide' relied on data abuse and baseless claims by far-right ideologue" (The Grayzone)

"4/2/21 Larry Wilkerson on the Global Struggle for Power in Asia" (The Libertarian Institute)

"G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra (2009)" (IMDb)

Peter Lee writes on East and South Asian affairs and their intersection with US global policy. Follow his work on Patreon and on Twitter @chinahand.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6y9fB81Xto

Lyle J. Goldstein discusses the terrifying possibility of war between the U.S. and China. There are plenty of hawks in the U.S. government, he says, who might try to fight China were they to attack Taiwan or exert their influence elsewhere in the region. But even leaving aside the potential catastrophe of a nuclear war, Goldstein says American strategists don't give enough credence to the possibility that China could now defeat the U.S. even in a conventional war. The entire doctrine of trying to be the dominant military power in the world forever is foolish, wasteful and dangerous—instead, America should make clear that it would defend its major allies against unreasonable Chinese aggression, but otherwise not try to govern the other half of the planet under the threat of military force.

Discussed on the show:

"Beijing has a plethora of military options against Taiwan after 2022" (The Hill)

"The Indo-Pacific Strategy Is a Recipe for Disaster" (Lawfare)

1992 Draft Defense Planning Guidance

"The Longest Telegram: A Visionary Blueprint for the Comprehensive Grand Strategy Against China We Need" (War on the Rocks)

Meeting China Halfway: How to Defuse the Emerging US-China Rivalry

"The Rise of the Rest" (Fareed Zakaria)

Lyle J. Goldstein is Research Professor in the China Maritime Studies Institute (CMSI) at the United States Naval War College in Newport, RI. He is the author of Meeting China Halfway: How to Defuse the Emerging US-China Rivalry. Follow his work at The National Interest.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjsGVXWjbeM

Scott interviews rapper Immortal Technique in a wide-ranging conversation covering the legacy of slavery in America, the false narrative about Palestine fed to most Americans and the ways that politics has become entwined in daily life like never before. He and Scott agree that the powerful have always deliberately played up the petty differences that divide us, hoping to separate and embitter people who should be natural allies. Social change is possible when regular citizens unite against those who perpetuate the evils of war, colonialism and oppression.

Discussed on the show:

Sykes-Picot Agreement

Rome and Jerusalem: A Study in Jewish Nationalism

Immortal Technique is a Peruvian-American rapper and activist, best known for his albums Revolutionary vol. 1, Revolutionary vol. 2, The Martyr and the upcoming Middle Passage. Follow him at Viper Records or on Twitter @ImmortalTech.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOzRc2uMdmY

Grant Smith discusses the Israeli government's occupation of Palestine and its treatment of the Palestinians. There seems to be growing recognition that Israel is presiding over a form of apartheid, including a 2017 UN report attesting to that fact, and a small plurality of Americans, according to a recent survey, who believe America should cut aid to Israel over human rights abuses. But Smith also recognizes that government policies here and abroad often follow a "ratchet" effect—that is, small changes can be made pretty easily in one direction, but almost never get rolled back once instituted. And the trend in recent years has unmistakably been toward greater subjugation of the Palestinians by the Israelis and greater American support as they do so.

Discussed on the show:

Architects of Repression

Israel Lobby Con

"'Cut Aid Over Israeli Apartheid' Say Americans: Poll" (Antiwar.com Original)

"Is Israel an ‘apartheid’ state? This U.N. report says yes." (The Washington Post)

"US: It's our longstanding position that the West Bank is occupied" (The Jerusalem Post)

"A regime of Jewish supremacy from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea: This is apartheid" (B'Tselem)

Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid

Grant F. Smith is the author of a number of books including Big Israel: How Israel’s Lobby Moves America, Divert!, and most recently The Israel Lobby Enters State Government: Rise of the Virginia Israel Advisory Board. He is director of the Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy in Washington, D.C.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M3ozRXuBjg

Scott talks to Larry Wilkerson, former army Colonel and Chief of Staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell, about America's involvement in Asia, both during his time in the federal government and today. Wilkerson calls America's exploits over the last few decades a part of "The Great Game," a reference to the conflict between global powers like the British and Russian Empires over territory in the Middle East and the rest of Asia. This competition for hegemony never really ended, he says, although the players and stakes have changed to some extent. These days, the U.S. competes with China and Russia for control over fossil fuel supplies, trade routes and access to the nuclear stockpiles of smaller powers like Pakistan. But he and Scott agree that we have no business whatsoever trying to be the dominant power halfway across the world, and should pull our focus back to our own problems.

Discussed on the show:

McMafia: A Journey Through the Global Criminal Underworld

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF4JzNYgKY0

Scott interviews Jacob Sullum about the trial of Derek Chauvin for the death of George Floyd. Sullum highlights two important features of the prosecution's case so far: the first is that paramedics testified to Floyd's already being dead when they showed up, and the second is an argument about Floyd's possible drug overdose. Sullum explains that while the level of fentanyl found in Floyd's system during the autopsy might be high for a normal person, it was actually on the extreme low end of what can cause an overdose, especially for a habitual opioid user. These factors make it unlikely that drug overdose was a primary cause in Floyd's death—but more importantly, whether drugs played some role or not, the relevant fact in a murder or manslaughter trial is whether the victim would still be alive had the defendant not done what he did. In this case, argues Sullum, Floyd pretty clearly would be.

Discussed on the show:

"Derek Chauvin Argues That His Use of Force Was Appropriate and Did Not Kill George Floyd" (Reason)

"Derek Chauvin’s Belief That George Floyd Was Intoxicated Does Not Help His Case" (Reason)

"Derek Chauvin Blames His Former Colleagues for George Floyd’s Death" (Reason)

Jacob Sullum is a senior editor at Reason Magazine. He is the author of Saying Yes: In Defense of Drug Use and For Your Own Good: The Anti-Smoking Crusade and the Tyranny of Public Health. Follow him on Twitter @jacobsullum.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlSqFiGfoOc

Daniel Davis talks to Scott about the possibility of war with China. Davis fears that despite what would seem to be common sense arguments against ever fighting such a war, that's the direction that the American military establishment is heading in. The war planners in Washington seem to think that even though the U.S. and China both have large nuclear arsenals, we could fight a conventional war without either side resorting to nukes. This is the height of foolishness, says Davis, but even if we did somehow avoid nuclear war, China could probably defeat the United States easily using only conventional weapons, if we tried to come to them on their turf. We must find a way to disentangle ourselves from distant conflicts in which we have no interest, like the dispute between China and Taiwan, before it's too late to turn back.

Discussed on the show:

"Surprise Attack: How China Could Start a War Against Taiwan" (19FortyFive)

"US War With China Over Taiwan Would Be Foolish and Costly" (Business Insider)

Daniel Davis did multiple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan during his time in the army. He writes a weekly column for National Interest and is the author of the reports “Dereliction of Duty II: Senior Military Leaders’ Loss of Integrity Wounds Afghan War Effort” and “Go Big or Go Deep: An Analysis of Strategy Options on Afghanistan.” Find him on Twitter @DanielLDavis1.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nkOIMkgPTg

Jack Matlock, America's second-to-last ambassador to the Soviet Union, talks to Scott about relations with Russia today. He stresses that the real ideological differences that once divided America and the USSR don't stand in the way anymore, and we need not continue to have a hostile relationship with a country that for the most part means us well. In fact, given that Russia, like America, has a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons, friendly cooperation between the two countries is far more important than any small issues like claims of election interference and personal insults between political leaders.

Discussed on the show:

"A Biden-Putin Summit?" (accuracy.org)

"Building on George Shultz’s Vision of a World Without Nukes" (WSJ)

Jack Matlock is a career diplomat who served as U.S. ambassador to the Soviet Union when the Cold War ended. Since retiring from the Foreign Service, he has focused on understanding how the Cold War ended and how the lessons from that experience might be applied to public policy today.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5vVGoZP124

Matthew Hoh comes back on the show to talk about Afghanistan. President Biden said in a recent press conference that due to logistical difficulties, America is unlikely to meet the May 1 withdrawal deadline laid out in the Doha agreement signed under President Trump. Hoh points out that there shouldn't really be logistical difficulties in getting about 3,000 American troops out of Afghanistan in a month (not to mention the many months both presidents have had already)—really, this is political cover to avoid pulling America out once and for all. No president has been willing to do so so far, largely because of the fear of what will happen in Afghanistan when we leave. The power vacuum created by America's absence will lead to some chaos, to be sure, but Hoh says there's simply no way around that fact. The only question now is when America will leave, not if. Staying any longer only continues to put American lives at risk.

Discussed on the show:

"War Machine (2017)" (IMDb)

The Best and the Brightest

"Milestones: 1945–1952" (Office of the Historian)

This Kind of War: The Classic Korean War History

"Cherry (2021)" (IMDb)

Matthew Hoh is a senior fellow at the Center for International Policy and formerly worked for the U.S. State Department. Hoh received the Ridenhour Prize Recipient for Truth Telling in 2010. Hoh is a member of the Board of Directors for Council for a Livable World and is an Advisory Board Member for Expose Facts. He writes on issues of war, peace and post-traumatic stress disorder recovery at matthewhoh.com.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZb_Ex2hXVw

Scott interviews Joe Dyke about his coverage of the little-known secret talks between Norwegian diplomats and Muammar Gaddafi in 2011, which sought a peaceful end to the war there. Although Norway was a part of the group of countries that decided to begin bombing Libya, the talks remained mostly a secret, and the Norwegian negotiators even had to be evacuated right before the bombing started. According to Dyke's reporting, Gaddafi was open to a deal that would involve his stepping down peacefully in exchange for legal immunity. The Norwegian government, he says, tried to get Britain and France to agree to a deal like this, but they refused. The result was a brutal war that nearly destroyed one of the wealthiest and most advanced countries in Africa.

Discussed on the show:

"The secret talks that nearly saved Gaddafi" (Independent)

"NATO Killed Civilians in Libya and Must Face Responsibility" (Foreign Policy)

For the Record

A Promised Land

Joe Dyke is Senior Investigator at Airwars. He has a decade of experience living and working in the Middle East, carrying out in-depth investigations into conflict-related civilian harm. Follow his work on Twitter @joedyke.

This episode of the Scott Horton Show is sponsored by: The War State, by Mike Swanson; Tom Woods' Liberty Classroom; ExpandDesigns.com/Scott; Photo IQ; Green Mill Supercritical; Zippix Toothpicks; and Listen and Think Audio.

Shop Libertarian Institute merch or donate to the show through Patreon, PayPal or Bitcoin: 1DZBZNJrxUhQhEzgDh7k8JXHXRjYu5tZiG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_g_2dUhNk8