We are suing the US House Chaplain! Dan Barker, with the help of FFRF attorneys Andrew Seidel and Sam Grover and litigation attorney Rich Bolton, filed a federal lawsuit May 5 challenging Chaplain Father Conroy’s refusal to allow an atheist to offer a secular invocation before Congress. Andrew and Sam join us on the show to discuss the 2-year saga that led to this lawsuit. After hearing Irving Berlin’s irreverent 1922 song “Pack Up Your Sins and Go To the Devil in Hades,” we talk with sociologist and author Phil Zuckerman about his newest book Living the Secular Life: New Answers to Old Questions.