We’re trying something new: recordings of our short in-person conversations on Friday nights.

These short conversations will be released on Mondays. Our usual podcast will be released on Thursdays. Let us know what you think!

References:

2019 DxE Year End Video: https://youtu.be/VT61lSOP6sQ

Photo of fireworks and fishnet relationships: https://i0.wp.com/www.austinweeklynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Michael-column-art.png?fit=1188%2C1248&ssl=1

Music by Dayzee Deva (cover of "Everybody Have Fun Tonight”)

In my last conversation with Prof. Justin Marceau, we talked about his personal journey – from an aspiring pilot in the Air Force Academy, to Harvard-educated lawyer defending inmates on death row. What we did not get a chance to discuss, however, was Justin’s importance to the historic trial that ended with not guilty verdicts, for both me and my co-defendant Paul Darwin Picklesimer, in southern Utah. And, as I tell Justin in this podcast, he played a key role.

This is not just because of his testimony at trial, which in my view changed the tenor of the case. It’s because Justin gave me wise counsel – that I did not take as seriously as I should have – about the risks of doing open rescue work, against some of the most powerful corporate interests in the nation. It’s because Justin has elevated the importance of criminal defense work, including a new activist defense project he is launching at the University of Denver College of Law. (As Justin says, we cannot protect animals, if we do not protect those who rescue them.) And, perhaps most important, it’s because Justin has come to me – despite coming from an elite and highly-credentialed background – with a philosophy on change:

Don’t do what everyone else is doing. Fill the gaps.

That simple message is crucial at this point in history, not just for animal rights, but for politics and society. We talk about that idea, and much more, in this conversation. Enjoy!

Beyond Cages: Animal Law and Criminal Punishment (Justin Marceau’s book)

Palliative Animal Law: The War on Animal Cruelty - Harvard Law Review

Music by Dayzee Deva (cover of "Everybody Have Fun Tonight”)

There were so many cliffhangers in the recent open rescue trial in Utah. The mistrial that was nearly declared on the first day, due to the court’s failure to provide us information about jurors. The decision to close our case, despite not calling all of our witnesses, because of a strategic error I had made in failing to prep one of our witnesses. And the gamble to move forward with submitting the trial to a jury, even when the court agreed that there was a fundamental miscarraige of justice – the state’s efforts to paint Smithfield in a rosy light, while denying us the ability to show evidence of animal cruelty – on the last day.

Jeremy Beckham, a long-time activist who has sued the government around a dozen times – and won every case – is the perfect person to break it down with me. The trial, which was described by the judge as the greatest in the history of St. George, had so many wrinkles to it that those who were watching from Zoom just would not pick up. Thankfully, Jeremy was sitting in the gallery, one of the small number of people allowed into the courtroom, all the way through trial. There are a lot of lessons we can learn from the trial about social change, the law, and even human psychology. This conversation will help us start to draw them out.

The New York Times - Animal Rights Activists Are Acquitted in Smithfield Piglet Case

The Intercept - ACTIVISTS ACQUITTED IN TRIAL FOR TAKING PIGLETS FROM SMITHFIELD FOODS

The Salt Lake Tribune - Animal rights activists found not guilty on all charges after two piglets were taken from Circle Four Farms in Utah

Jeremy Beckahm’s animal rights organization - Utah Animal Rights Coalition (UARC)

It’s still a little hard to believe. But on October 8, just a few days ago, a jury in southern Utah found me not guilty on all charges. The next few podcasts will discuss the trial, and its aftermath. But this first episode will focus on what came before: the incredible mobilization of people across the nation and world to fight with us against Smithfield, and for the right to rescue.

Almira Tanner is lead organizer of the grassroots animal rights network Direct Action Everywhere (DxE). She was the one, behind the scenes, ensuring all the trains ran on time – from the disruption of an NFL game on Monday Night Football to managing the theater in St. George where supporters gathered to watch the trial.

Curtis Vollmar is the grassroots lead for Compassionate Bay, a 501(c)(4) organization that has pushed some of the most groundbreaking legislation in animal rights history, including a nearly-successful effort to impose a moratorium on new factory farms. Curtis was the activist who, in July 2022, was charged with disorderly conduct for merely leafleting in Beaver County, Utah regarding the Smithfield trial. His case, and the death threats against animal rights activists, were the basis for our successful effort to move the Smithfield trial from Beaver to Washington County.

Finally, Paul Darwin Picklesimer was my co-defendant in the Smithfield trial, and a lead investigator in the DxE Open Rescue Network. Among other things, Paul is also responsible for the design aesthetic of DxE.

You’ll hear all the work these folks did behind the scenes to make sure that the story of the Smithfield trial reached, not just the mainstream media, but became a powerful narrative in communities across the nation. How did we do it? What were the impacts? What were our mistakes? You’ll hear it all on this episode – and also how you played a crucial role, too.

Music by Dayzee Deva (cover of "Everybody Have Fun Tonight”)

Priya Sawhney is an organizer, poet, and co-founder of both The Sanctuary Initiative and Direct Action Everywhere (DxE). She is also one of my best friends on earth, and the person I’ve entrusted with the two beings I love more than any other – my dog Oliver and my cat Joan – as I face off with Smithfield in the trial that may change my life.

For that reason, she will not be joining me in Utah. Oliver’s trauma has left him trusting of very few human beings. He needs her more than I do. Joan, who went blind and is probably near his end of life, requires round-the-clock care. But even as her physical presence will be missing, her spirit will be strong. And we tell the story in this conversation about another trial, in which the force of Priya’s spirit arguably saved me from prison.

Whether that happened or not – or whether it will happen in this case – there is a bigger point to that story. At every point in history, there are a nearly limitless number of possible futures. Every choice we make causes a split in the universe, towards futures filled with either cruelty or compassion. This is what theoretical physicists call the multiverse, and it’s as weird as it sounds. The power of Priya’s spirit is that it bends all of these branches towards compassion. It may very well be why I’m not sitting in a prison today, and it may save me from prison over the next few days. Because when people feel what Priya feels, what you and I feel, and what the animals feel, they are moved to act.

This will likely be my last podcast before the verdict, and perhaps the last podcast (with my voice) in a long time. But remember: the podcast will continue, in Priya’s voice (while sometimes reading my words), no matter what happens in Utah. And so long as you keep speaking your truth, we will prevail – and the multiverse will bend towards compassion.

The livestream by Priya that may have saved Wayne from prison

Priya’s joy from finding Bertie, the beagle rescued from a lab, then lost on the streets

Music by Dayzee Deva (cover of "Everybody Have Fun Tonight”)

Paul Picklesimer and Jon Frohnmayer joined me in an investigation of the largest pig farm in the nation, Smithfield’s Circle Four Farms. Now they’re joining me as we fight for our freedom – and for the the right to rescue animals from abuse – in a trial that will unfold in the next week. At risk is 11 years in prison. And we are facing unprecedented obstacles, including a local sheriff who has told animal rights activists, “You will be killed. And I am not going to be there to stop. It.”

But, as we discuss in this podcast, we are ready for this fight. Because we have support from people across the world – including, maybe, from you.

This may be the second to last time you hear my voice on this podcast, as trial begins on October 3. To all of you who’ve joined us over the past year, thank you. And let’s get ready for the fight of our lives.

Music by Dayzee Deva (cover of "Everybody Have Fun Tonight”)

Amy Meyer was volunteering at an animal sanctuary near Salt Lake City, Utah when she decided, on the spur of a moment, to take a literal turn off her usual path. She had driven by a massive slaughterhouse on the way to the sanctuary many times. It always made her sad to think of the animals sent to their deaths, just a few hundred feet from the road. But one day in February 2013, she decided she would not just drive by. She would stop – and try to do something about it. And by merely stopping and pulling out her camera, from a few hundred feet away on a public street, she set off a chain reaction that trigger a nationwide legal battle for free speech and animal rights. A small horde of police cars surrounded her. She was charged with violating Utah’s newly-enacted “ag gag” law. And her normal life suddenly transformed. 

Amy’s story, in which her partner Jeremy also played a key role, shows two very important things. The first is that the state has been corrupted by industry influence. When even our most cherished civil liberties are blatantly violated at industry behest, something has gone wrong in American democracy. The second lesson, however, is that when we fight back – and work together with inclusive coalitions of activists, media, and ordinary people – we can win. 

This is a good one. And an important story to keep in mind as Paul and I go to trial. Because in less than one week, on Monday, Sept 26, we are going to ask you to join us in fighting back against industry influence again. Stay tuned for more. 

Music by Dayzee Deva (cover of "Everybody Have Fun Tonight”)

Almira Tanner is lead organizer of the grassroots animal rights network Direct Action Everywhere, which I co-founded in 2013. In that role, she’s been carefully watching the rise and fall of not just the animal rights movement, but movements across a whole range of social justice issues, from climate change to workers’ rights. And something has gone wrong; people seem to be losing hope. She’s seen this in her own work trying to challenge factory farms in California – including an underhanded corporate campaign to kill a moratorium on factory farms before it even came to its first committee vote – but also in our broader society. Despair seems to be the feeling of the day.

How do we overcome that feeling and drive progress? As I approach a trial that, in many ways, seems hopeless, I thought it was important to have this conversation with Almira, so we could answer this question together. And what we found – what you’ll find – is that there’s more reasons to be optimistic than you might think. For example, the moratorium on factory farms in California was killed, but the fact that the bill was even introduced, in a state that has one of the largest animal ag industries in the nation, is a minor miracle. In short, not just hope but reasons for real confidence are there. Sometimes, we just have to take a deeper look. We do that together in this conversation. I hope you enjoy it!

Direct Action Everywhere (DxE) - Website

Music by Dayzee Deva (cover of "Everybody Have Fun Tonight”)

Dr. Michael Martin is a professor of epidemiology and biostatistics at the University of California at San Francisco. He is also President of Physicians for Social Responsibility, the United States affiliate of an organization of medical doctors that won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1985, and the founder of Physicians Against Red Meat. And he has an important lesson for us: we have the power to make change.

Whether it’s educating ourselves about the existential threats posed by nuclear weapons, or pushing our institutions to switch to plant-based foods, the future will be defined by each of us. The choices we make, in turn, can reverberate for generations. So we better make the right ones!

Mike is one of the smartest people I know, with a diverse set of interests that are sort of astonishing. For example, beyond nuclear weapons and red meat, Mike has done important research on the impact of sunlight on skin. (Preview: His research suggests that 90% – !!! – of all age-associated skin damage is caused by sunlight, and not by aging alone!) This is a great conversation to listen to, especially on a week that many of us are asking our friends to join us in a plant-based meal. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

We started The Green Pill Podcast in September 2020 to create a space to talk about change. Now we’re going through a major change ourselves: in about one month, I head to trial to face criminal charges that could transform the rest of my life.

And it’s for that reason we’re transforming the podcast, too. There’s the obvious reason: I may not be here much longer to serve as host. Priya, Ronnie, Dean, and Chloe will step up in various ways to ensure the show continues. But there’s a more fundamental reason, too.

To truly create change, we need you to be a part of this. So while we’re changing the name to Everybody *Wayne Hsiung* Tonight!, the two characters that are most important in the new titles are the two asterisks. You see, in code, the asterisk stands for a wildcard. And while the show will go on, following me via letters from prison if necessary, what will really sustain it is if *you* get involved.

I can think of no better people to discuss this idea than the team who joined me for this first episode of the rebranded podcast.

Ronnie Rose is co-founder of Direct Action Everywhere – and the first animal rights activist I met when I moved to the Bay Area in 2012. He helped us establish not just the intellectual foundation, but the values, which supercharged the grassroots animal rights movement in California and beyond.

Priya Sawheny is co-founder of Direct Action Everywhere. She’s been one of my most important partners in crime (figuratively, of course) over the last 10 years, and is helping launch a new org, The Sanctuary Initiative.

Dean Wyrzykowski is the former President of the Berkeley Organization for Animal Advocacy and grassroots director in my 2020 campaign for Mayor of Berkeley. He’s leading the operations for The Sanctuary Initiative.

Finally, Chloe Leffakis, who joined us by Zoom, has been my social media lead (and sometime avatar) for the last 5 or so years. She’s joining us as a founding staff member of The Sanctuary Initiative – and will continue to play a crucial mostly-behind-the-scenes role in everything we do.

We talk in this podcast about what we’ve learned from the past 10 years, and our plans for the future. But, most importantly, we talk about how to get you more involved.

No matter what happens next month, as long as we find ways to stay connected, and stay kind, we’ll make progress. Thanks for joining the journey so far – and believe me when I say, the best is yet to come.

The Idiot by Fyodor Dostoevsky (novel)

Beasts of Burden: Animal and Disability Liberation by Sunaura Taylor (book)

Axolotl by Julio Cortázar (short story)

Mad World by Gary Jules (song)

Donnie Darko by Richard Kelley (film)

Music by Dayzee Deva (cover of "Everybody Have Fun Tonight”)