Before it was a presumed Oscar contender starring Dwayne The Rock Johnson, The Smashing Machine was a documentary about MMA pioneer Mark Kerr, directed by John Hyams. Arguably one of the most influential documentaries of the 21st century, I was so obsessed with it that the first time I tracked down John Hyams to pepper him with questions about it was 13 damned years ago. That’s right, before my retrospective about The Smashing Machine documentary was a GQ feature, it was a FilmDrunk Frotcast. I haven’t seen the upcoming scripted A24 version starring The Rock, but knowing that Benny Safdie was at least as obsessed with John Hyams’ documentary with I am, obsessed enough to recreate certain scenes right down to getting the hats and trunks right, makes me think it’s going to be pretty good. Point is, this has no spoilers for The Smashing Machine (2025), because I haven’t seen it yet.

What this is is the most comprehensive behind-the-scenes interview about The Smashing Machine (2002) that I could conduct. Did you know it was originally supposed to be called “The Specimen?” That HBO considered calling it “The Bloody Punch?” That Hyams wrote his own scripted version of it that was once intended as a vehicle for Mark Wahlberg? That in a roundabout way, it would go on to evolve into what became Warrior? All of these things are true, and we know them because John Hyams was cool enough to sit in for an hour-plus interview. A handful of quotes made it into my GQ retrospective (up there with my Freddy Got Fingered oral history in terms of things I’m most proud of having written) but I always intended to post the whole conversation. Feel like I owed it to posterity.

Funny that Dana White and the UFC are now gung ho on Dwayne Johnson playing Mark Kerr–as Hyams recalls it, Zuffa used to try to scrub every mention of the documentary back when the UFC was still fighting for legitimacy (perhaps understandably so). The original came from a different time, when MMA fighters were far more concerned with convincing the public that they were legitimate athletes and not scary monsters (let alone trying to do rightwing demagoguery or whatever). That’s what makes it such an incredible time capsule, and Hyams was more than game to let yours truly Remember Some MMA Guys, specifically from the PRIDE days. Not always successfully, but that’s why editing exists. Hope you enjoy listening to it as much as I did, and don’t forget to check out some of John’s other great movies like Universal Soldier: Regeneration and Sick while you’re at it.