This week’s episode is a bit of a crossover. We’re sharing the fourth and final episode of MSNBC’s “The Threat of Project 2025” special series for the How to Win podcast. In this episode, Chris speaks with Grist climate reporter Zoya Teirstein for her take on Project 2025’s impact on climate and the environment, especially in communities already suffering from climate-related catastrophes. Then, Dr. Vernon Morris, a professor of chemistry and atmospheric sciences at Arizona State University, shares his experience working with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and the important work at stake should NOAA be dismantled by this conservative agenda.

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