The Tongue Tie Experts Podcast

In this episode, Lisa welcomes Tiffany Washington, RN, BSN, IBCLC, for a conversation about the gaps in breastfeeding support and what happens when families don’t know where, or when, to reach out for help.

Drawing from their experiences in both hospital and private-practice lactation care, Lisa and Tiffany discuss the very different roles of inpatient and outpatient lactation consultants and why families can easily lose support during the transition home. They explore why lactation care should begin earlier, including during pregnancy, and how understanding the full maternal and infant history can help clinicians connect the dots when feeding isn’t going as expected.

They also talk about the importance of recognizing lactation as a specialty. Not every breastfeeding problem has the same solution, and not every IBCLC has the same area of expertise. Finding the right provider - and knowing when another member of the healthcare team is needed, can make an enormous difference.

Tiffany shares why she created Droplet, a platform designed to help families find private-practice IBCLCs and access reliable breastfeeding education, and why getting families to appropriate clinical care sooner is at the heart of her work.

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

In this episode, Lisa is joined by her friend Olena Dobchansky, MSN, RNC-MNN, IBCLC, C-ONQS, LCCE, for a spontaneous and honest conversation about something weighing heavily on many lactation professionals right now: What is the value of the care we provide, and who gets to decide?

What started as a morning text about Lisa’s own frustration with the state of lactation care quickly became a much bigger conversation about insurance, reimbursement, healthcare systems, professional identity, and the emotional toll of trying to provide deeply personal care within systems that do not always support it.

Lisa and Len the RN (her Substack handle), discuss current conversations around lactation reimbursement, why traditional healthcare models do not reflect the time and complexity of lactation care, and the differences between hospital-based care, private practice, breastfeeding support, clinical lactation care, and breastfeeding medicine.

They also explore what happens when systems fail to connect families with the care that already exists. Lisa shares experiences from her years working within hospital systems and reflects on the frustration of seeing mothers continue to struggle despite increased attention to breastfeeding initiatives.

The conversation goes beyond reimbursement to the emotional side of this work: birth trauma, maternal anxiety, feeding struggles, informed choice, and the importance of really listening to what families are experiencing.

This is not an episode with easy answers. It is a candid conversation between two longtime clinicians asking bigger questions about the systems surrounding lactation care - and what needs to change if we want both families and the professionals who care for them to be better supported.

• What it really means to value lactation care
• Why insurance reimbursement does not always reflect the complexity of the work
• Current conversations around CMS, lactation care, and reimbursement
• How healthcare systems can influence the care clinicians are able to provide
• The differences between breastfeeding support, clinical lactation care, and breastfeeding medicine
• RN IBCLCs, non-nurse IBCLCs, and the different backgrounds professionals bring to lactation care
• Why hospital breastfeeding initiatives do not always translate into meaningful support after discharge
• The importance of strong referral pathways and interdisciplinary connections
• The emotional and physical demands placed on lactation professionals
• Moral injury and what happens when clinicians cannot provide the care they believe families need
• Birth trauma, breastfeeding distress, and the experiences mothers may not be saying out loud
• Why listening to the mother has to remain central to lactation care
• Olena’s question: “Are you in a functional breastfeeding relationship?”
• Why different families may need different levels of breastfeeding and lactation support
• What may be at stake for the future of lactation care

Sometimes improving a system starts with being willing to question it.

And this conversation asks an important one: Who decides the value of lactation care?

Find Olena Olena Dobchansky on substack here: https://substack.com/@thepartumconnection

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

In this episode, Lisa talks with dentist, board-certified dental sleep medicine specialist, and author Dr. Maria Sokolina about the powerful connections between breathing, sleep, oral function, and whole-body health.

Dr. Sokolina shares how her background in cosmetic dentistry and orthodontics led her to recognize that protecting the teeth also requires understanding what happens while a person sleeps. They discuss grinding and clenching, tongue tie, airway development, restless sleep in children, and the ways sleep-disordered breathing can affect energy, behavior, relationships, cardiovascular health, and overall quality of life.

They also explore Dr. Sokolina’s novel, Breathless, which weaves airway and sleep education into an emotional family story. Through themes of love, immigration, cultural adjustment, and personal transformation, the book helps readers recognize symptoms and connections that may otherwise be difficult to understand through science alone.

In this episode:

• Why dentistry, orthodontics, sleep, and airway health are deeply connected
• Signs that a child’s restless or unusual sleep may deserve a closer look
• How breathing and sleep disorders can appear across generations
• The relationship between sleep apnea, grinding, health, and quality of life
• Why storytelling can make complex health information easier to understand
• The responsibility professionals have to translate research for families

Check out Lisa’s appearance on her show on YouTube

Connect:

Instagram

LinkedIn

Dr. Maria’s book - Breathless: A Medical Mystery of the Hidden Epidemic

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

In this episode, Lisa talks with Stephanie Culler, PhD, co-founder and CEO of Persephone Biosciences and lead author of the My Baby Biome Study, the largest U.S. study profiling the infant gut microbiome.

Stephanie explains why many modern babies are missing important species of bifidobacteria, even when they are born vaginally and breastfed. They discuss how birth practices, antibiotics, diet, breast milk, prebiotics, and environmental exposures may shape a baby’s developing microbiome.

Lisa and Stephanie also explore the importance of avoiding parental guilt, why early microbial development may influence future health, and what families and healthcare professionals should look for when evaluating infant probiotic products.

In this episode:

• Why bifidobacteria are considered foundational to the infant gut
• How breast milk oligosaccharides feed beneficial bacteria
• The effects of cesarean birth and antibiotics on microbial development
• Why breastfeeding remains important even when key bacteria are missing
• Connections being studied between the microbiome, eczema, allergies, and immune health
• How diet, fiber, fermented foods, and environmental exposure support microbial diversity
• What to consider when choosing a probiotic for an infant
• Why clinical testing and strain-specific research matter
• How restoring missing microbes may support the developing gut ecosystem

Learn more about the work of Stephanie Culler, PhD here: Persephone.bio.

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

In this episode, Lisa talks with Dr. Fatima Montelongo Solís, a pediatric dentist, lactation consultant, professor, and tongue tie release provider from Mexico City. Dr. Fatima shares how her own journey into motherhood opened the door to lactation, infant care, and eventually tongue tie work.

They discuss what tongue tie care looks like in Mexico, including the limited number of professionals trained in release, rehabilitation, and functional assessment. Dr. Fatima shares how important it has been to collaborate with pediatricians, educate families without pressure, and support parents in making informed decisions.

This conversation is a beautiful reminder that although tongue tie care may look different in different countries, the goal is the same: helping babies feed, breathe, grow, and function well while supporting families with compassion and clarity.

Lisa and Dr. Fatima discuss:

• How Dr. Fatima became interested in lactation and tongue tie care
• What tongue tie treatment currently looks like in Mexico
• Why many providers were not trained to understand tongue tie beyond speech concerns
• The importance of working with pediatricians and other trusted providers
• Why families need information, not pressure
• How lactation consultants, pediatric dentists, therapists, and pediatricians can work together
• Why therapy and functional diagnosis matter before and after release
• The role of ICAP in creating interdisciplinary learning and collaboration
• Why holistic care means looking at the whole baby, not just the mouth

Dr. Fatima Montelongo Solís is a pediatric dentist from Mexico City. She is also a lactation consultant, tongue tie release provider, and university professor at the National Autonomous University of Mexico. Her practice focuses heavily on lactation, tongue tie, oral restrictions, and supporting babies and children through a collaborative, functional approach.

Connect with her on IG here: @fatimaodontopediatra

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

In this episode, Lisa welcomes RN, IBCLC, and fellow podcaster Katie Oshita for a wide-ranging conversation about professional connection, interdisciplinary learning, emerging research, and telehealth in tongue tie and lactation care.

Katie shares how traveling across the United States and Canada inspired her podcast, Katie the Traveling LC, and gave her the opportunity to meet and learn from professionals working in different disciplines, communities, and countries.

Lisa and Katie reflect on their experience at the ICAP conference and what makes it such a valuable space for tongue tie professionals. They discuss the importance of curiosity, collaboration, honest conversations about complications, and being willing to learn from providers who approach care differently.

They also explore why stronger research is so important in this field, including emerging work related to tongue posture, whole-body function, aftercare, reattachment, measurable outcomes, and whether tongue ties should be released when feeding and function are going well.

The conversation concludes with a discussion of telehealth and how virtual care can connect families with specialized providers, expand access beyond their local communities, and help parents become active participants in assessing and supporting their babies.

In this episode:

• How podcasting and travel helped Katie build a wider professional network
• Why learning outside our local and professional “bubbles” matters
• What makes ICAP’s interdisciplinary and international approach unique
• The value of discussing complications and imperfect outcomes openly
• How emerging research may shape tongue tie assessment and aftercare
• Why providers need to remain curious and willing to change their practices
• The advantages and limitations of virtual lactation and tongue tie care

Connect with Katie at cuddlesandmilk.com and listen to her podcast, Katie the Traveling LC.

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

In this episode, Lisa welcomes Jess Draper, a holistic infant occupational therapist, IBCLC, and pelvic floor therapist based in Eugene, Oregon. Through her practice, Hali’a Therapeutics, Jess provides concierge-style care for families from pregnancy through the first year of life, bringing a whole-body, nervous-system-informed lens to feeding, oral motor function, movement, milestones, and tongue tie care.

Lisa and Jess talk about the important role occupational therapy can play in infant feeding and tongue tie care, especially when babies are struggling with regulation, sensory processing, oral motor coordination, head shape, or feeding patterns that do not fit neatly into one category.

Jess explains sensory processing in a practical way, including how babies take in, filter, and respond to touch, sound, movement, and oral input. They discuss how sensory differences may show up during feeding, such as gagging, popping on and off the breast, difficulty reorganizing after switching sides, or becoming easily overwhelmed by movement, sound, or touch.

They also explore neuroplasticity, mirror neurons, and why babies often need support learning how to use new tongue mobility after release. Jess shares why infant care should include more than identifying restriction, and why supporting function, movement, and nervous system regulation can make such a difference.

The conversation also includes an important discussion about head shape, palate shape, birth positioning, time in containers, and how the body’s structure can influence feeding. Lisa and Jess emphasize the importance of looking at the whole baby, not just the mouth.

• How occupational therapy fits into infant feeding and tongue tie care
• What sensory processing means in babies
• Signs that sensory overwhelm may be affecting feeding
• Why some babies struggle with oral input, movement, or switching sides
• Neuroplasticity, mirror neurons, and infant oral motor learning
• Why babies may need help learning to use new tongue mobility
• How head shape and palate shape can affect feeding
• The impact of birth positioning, prematurity, and time in containers
• Why whole-body assessment matters before and after tongue tie release
• Supporting both baby and parent as a connected dyad

Instagram: @haliatherapeutics

Email: [email protected]

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

In this episode, Lisa talks with pediatric dentist Dr. Brynn Leroux about how research, standardized tools, and clinical experience are helping move tongue tie care forward.

They discuss current ICAP - related research on pre-op and post-op stretches, why aftercare language needs to be clearer, and how providers can better track outcomes using function-based tools. Lisa and Dr. Leroux also talk about reattachment, lip ties, buccal ties, whole-body tension, and the importance of individualized care before and after release.

• Why research matters in tongue tie care
• What we still need to learn about aftercare and reattachment
• How symptom tracking helps assess function
• The role of lip ties, buccal ties, and body tension
• Practical pearls from Dr. Leroux’s pediatric dental practice

Connect with Dr. Leroux -

Website: https://www.aipdbr.com/

Ig: https://www.instagram.com/associatesinpediatricdentistry/

Special thanks to our sponsor Map My Milk.

Find out more at https://www.mapmymilk.com/

Use code TONGUETIE20 for 20% off either our monthly subscription (regularly $7.99) or lifetime access (regularly $54.99).

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

Mentioned in this episode:

Map My Milk

In this episode, Lisa talks with Maya Bundesen-Magier, occupational therapist, mother of two, and founder of MapMyMilk, a digital tool created to help breastfeeding families track maternal diet and infant symptoms with more clarity.

Maya shares how her own experience with food reactivity in her babies led her to create a better way for families and providers to look for patterns without relying on fear, extreme elimination diets, or guesswork.

Lisa and Maya cover the overlap between tongue tie symptoms and food reactivity, including reflux, fussiness, poor sleep, stool changes, breast refusal, and feeding discomfort. They also talk about why symptoms should not be viewed in isolation, and why a functional, whole-baby approach matters before assuming that one issue explains everything.

This conversation highlights the importance of clinical integrity, individualized care, and using better tools to support breastfeeding families who are trying to understand what is really going on with their baby.

In this episode, Lisa and Maya discuss:

• Why food reactivity and tongue tie symptoms can overlap
• How MapMyMilk helps families track food intake and infant symptoms
• Why extreme elimination diets can leave parents feeling afraid to eat
• The importance of looking at patterns instead of guessing
• Why a tongue tie release may not resolve symptoms if food reactivity is also present
• The role of IBCLCs and other trained providers in helping families sort through complex symptoms
• Why data, clinical support, and individualized care matter

Find out more at https://www.mapmymilk.com/ Use code TONGUETIE20 for 20% off either our monthly subscription (regularly $7.99) or lifetime access (regularly $54.99).

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.

In this episode, Lisa discusses one of the most common concerns after tongue tie release: reattachment. But rather than focusing only on whether tissue has “grown back,” she widens the conversation to include aftercare, feeding function, healing, follow-up, and the importance of an individualized care plan.

Lisa explains why persistent or returning symptoms after frenotomy do not always mean reattachment. Feeding challenges may be related to incomplete release, healing patterns, oral motor habits, body tension, milk supply, latch mechanics, reflux, or the baby needing help learning to use new tongue mobility.

She also reviews current research and guidelines on revision, recurrence, massage, stretching, and follow-up care, highlighting that the evidence is still evolving and that not all studies or professional organizations define aftercare the same way.

Using her CAREFUL™ framework, Lisa explains how professionals can think through these cases more clearly by listening to parent concerns, assessing function, relating symptoms to possible causes, educating families, focusing on function, understanding scope and referral needs, and looping back with follow-up.

Lisa’s course, Professional’s Guide to Tongue Tie in the Breastfeeding Infant, teaches the CAREFUL™ approach and helps professionals move beyond “Is there a tie?” into a more functional, dyad-centered way of supporting breastfeeding families.

Learn more at: tonguetieexperts.net/professional

Lisa’s parent book, Tongue Tie for Parents, is available on Amazon for families looking for clear, supportive guidance about tongue tie and breastfeeding.

More from Tongue Tie Experts

Explore additional resources, including downloads, free guides, and links mentioned in this episode—along with access to our courses and new book:

👉 www.tonguetieexperts.net/Links

Use code PODCAST15 for 15% off all offerings.

References:

1.) Bhandarkar KP, Dar T, Karia L, Upadhyaya M. “Post Frenotomy Massage for Ankyloglossia in Infants: Does It Improve Breastfeeding and Reduce Recurrence?”Maternal and Child Health Journal. 2022;26(8):1727–1731.(ResearchGate)

2.) Miller JE, Chung HR, Marshall CR, Wilhalme HM, West AN. “Outcomes of stretching exercises after lingual frenotomy in infants: A prospective, interventional study.” International Journal of Pediatric Otorhinolaryngology. 2025. (PubMed).

3.) Nelson L, Prasad N, Lally MM, Harley EH. “Frenotomy Revision Rate in Breastfeeding Infants: The Impact of Early Versus Late Follow-Up.” Breastfeeding Medicine. 2021. (PubMed).

4.) Valle-Del Barrio B, Maya-Enero S, Prat-Ortells J, López-Vílchez MÁ, Candel-Pau J. “Readhesion of Tongue-Tie Following Neonatal Frenotomy: Incidence and Impact of Postoperative Exercises in a Prospective Observational Study.” Children. 2025;12(8):971.(MDPI)

5.) Smart, S., Kittrell, A., Merkel-Walsh, R., & Tseng, R. J. (2024). International Consortium of Oral Ankylofrenula Professionals (ICAP) Practice Guidelines for Ankylofrenula Management. International Journal of Orofacial Myology and Myofunctional Therapy, 50(2), 1-11. https://doi.org/10.52010/ijom.2024.50.2.3

6.) Thomas J, et al. / American Academy of Pediatrics.“Identification and Management of Ankyloglossia and Its Effect on Breastfeeding in Infants: Clinical Report.” Pediatrics. 2024;154(2):e2024067605.

This podcast is meant for education and conversation only. It is not medical advice and does not replace formal education, professional training, or individualized care from a qualified healthcare provider. Always seek appropriate guidance for individual concerns. The views and opinions shared by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or Tongue-tie experts.