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Interview with author, speaker and coach Karen M. Pierce
In episode 15, I talk to Karen about struggles which all women face during a divorce. We chat about how we as women focus on other people, instead of ourselves, even when going through a divorce. Karen assists women own their success and believes we are able to do more and fully impact the world when we are whole.
From her experience as a young child, Karen learned to understand not just what people were saying, but the meaning behind their words. She understood what she could and could not accept in a relationship from this experience. Karen believes people are made to participate in relationships. Your significant other should not be someone to fill you up, but a person to support you - you must believe in yourself and appreciate who you are.
Karen and I move through the stages of divorce, how divorce can change your life role and how to find your identity after a divorce.
Get your FREE copy of Karen’s new book,“It’s My Time." Realize the life of purpose you desire and achieve success in your career and in your personal life without compromise or regret!
You can find Karen here:
KarenMPierce.com
Karen Pierce On Linked In
Karen Pierce on Instagram
Show Notes:
[01:52] Who is Karen and what does she do?
[02:40] Karen’s background and how she tried to reconcile her own parents.
[03:57] Karen’s personal relationship boundaries and marriage expectations.
[05:12] Working with clients which come from a broken relationship.
[07:34] Figure out your identity, who you are and being OK with yourself.
[09:37] Features of a co-dependent or needy relationship.
[12:16] How to prioritize what to work on for yourself after a divorce.
[12:59] Common struggles for women of different age groups in relationship to a divorce.
[15:09] Pivotal moments for children experiencing divorce.
[18:10] Putting boundaries on children, productive time and time to enjoy life.
[21:35] Planning for “me” time.
[24:12] Scheduling related to productive time management.
[27:34] The work life balance: how much of your personal life should you sacrifice for work life?
[29:39] Prioritizing your time, especially in time of family crisis.
[31:14] Boundaries, compromise and your principles.
[33:24] Integrating your life and where you spend your time on a daily basis.
[36:15] Using your own parents as a model for your relationship.
[41:45] How Karen works with clients.
Links and Resources:
Kate’s show: The Divorce Survial Guide Podcast
Be a guest on Kate’s podcast
Take Kate’s 2 minute quiz here
You can find Kate here:
Kate Anthony
Linked In
Show Notes:
[03:57] The realism of divorce and the emotional toll that comes with divorce.
[04:82] How emotions get in the way of making good legal choices when you are stuck in emotional turmoil.
[06:37] Letting emotions get in the way of making decisions about your children.
[08:34] Advocating for clients and giving them a reality check to make sure the client understands the process.
[10:43] Looking at the facts and law when creating your divorce decree.
[11:54] The cost and process of litigating a custody case.
[15:32] Kate’s emotional attachment to her home and why you shouldn’t fight for your house.
[17:75] Considerations when budgeting for two households instead of one household after divorce.
[19:72] Collaborative divorce as an alternative to litigation.
[21:82] DIY divorce and the loopholes associated with handling your divorce on your own
[23:47] What you need to know before you file for divorce.
[26:42] The list of what’s important to you in your divorce.
[28:47] Meeting people where they are emotionally.
[29:62] Some jurisdictions require a waiting time when you are separated.
[31:37] Choosing how your relationship looks after your divorce.
[34:72] Giving time to catch up with the emotional shock of divorce.
[36:57] Being flexible and not shattering your partner.
[37:42] When a partner could be physical, make sure to have another person present when talking to your spouse
[39:57] Basic checklist of what you will need to consider during your divorce.
[42:32] Do the emotional work to create a better you to not pass on personal trauma to your children and break the cycle.
Links and Resources:
Kate’s show: The Divorce Survial Guide Podcast
Be a guest on Kate’s podcast
Take Kate’s 2 minute quiz here
TDC012 Jai Kissoon
Our Family Wizard - Online Communication Tools for Parents with guest Jai Kissoon
Jai Kissoon is the co-founder and CEO of the co-parenting website Our Family Wizard. This is a co-parenting website and mobile tool designed to help parents manage communications, schedules, documents, organize photos, and whatever else needs to be managed across two separate households. In this episode, Jai will share some of the top benefits and features of this website and tool.
We also get a behind the scenes look at how Our Family Wizard came about. Since Jai has become the CEO, Our Family Wizard has experienced significant growth. It serves families in all 50 states, all 7 Canadian provinces, and over 45 countries worldwide. This platform is the premiere set of tools for divorced or separated parents who are working to build healthy co-parenting relationships.
You can find Our Family Wizard here:
Our Family Wizard
Our Family Wizard on Facebook
@OurFamilyWizard on Twitter
Our Family Wizard on Pinterest
Our Family Wizard on Instagram
Our Family Wizard on Vimeo
Our Family Wizard on YouTube
Show Notes:
[02:00] In 2001, Jai was a senior in college, and his mom practiced family law. His mother's cousin had just experienced his first Christmas as a divorced parent, and he and his wife had a miscommunication about vacation plans.
[03:16] Jai's mom asked him if he knew of any technology solutions for this situation.
[03:30] He realized that there was a need and wanted to create a tool for divorced families who are sharing parenting responsibilities.
[03:44] He wrote the business plan for the world's first co-parenting platform when he was a senior in college. His parents and her cousin and his wife all helped with input, and the company was created.
[04:56] They worked with 40 high-conflict families to refine the process and learn about the process.
[05:26] After two years of using the site, none of the high-conflict families had to go back to court except for one family who stopped using the site.
[06:14] The goal is to help families from having to return to court for things that are easily manageable.
[07:29] Features include a calendar that offers access and documentation that you won't find in traditional calendar tools.
[08:17] You can create a parenting schedule up to eight weeks with a repeating pattern.
[08:49] You can also have multiple schedules. Both parents have access.
[09:43] Every step is documented. An when changes happen there is a notification.
[10:41] There is also a message board. It's only family communication and everything is documented even when the messages are read.
[11:50] Children get access on a limited schedule.
[12:36] There is a tool to keep track of expenses. Payments can also be made directly through the system.
[15:03] This is a desktop software and a mobile app.
[16:12] With the calendar you can't delete events, and there is a journal function and users can choose who sees the information.
[17:24] There is a tone meter that interprets the emotion of the users input. It helps people to not say things that will set off
Top 8 Changes to Family Law with the Passage of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act with Guest Eric Rollinger
In episode 9, I talked about the Tax Cut and Jobs Act or TCJA and how the new tax laws affect alimony law. In this episode, we go more in depth with Tax Attorney Eric Rollinger. We revisit the changes in alimony law and talk about tax codes, payments ending upon death, what is considered a written instrument, and more.
We also go in depth on other changes that will affect families and everyone who pays taxes. Eric is the perfect guest to do this. He is a CPA and an Attorney at the Law Firm of Stein Sperling. He's been honored for his excellent contributions in both the legal and financial arenas. I recently caught up with Eric at an event where we were honored by the Washingtonian Magazine as top lawyers in the Washington DC area.
You can find Eric here:
Stein Sperling
Eric Rollinger on LinkedIn
Show Notes:
[04:50] Eric is a tax attorney at Stein Sperling. He does tax controversy work and litigation support work primarily in a divorce setting.
[05:38] Alimony isn't the only thing affected by the new tax laws. There are many other changes to the tax cut and jobs act or TCJA.
[06:23] The change that took place for alimony has switched who can deduct the alimony payment. Alimony is not deductible by the payor, and it is not considered income for the recipient.
[07:25] This is the only change that took effect January 1st of 2019. Most of the other changes took effect January 1st of 2018.
[08:22] Sadly making alimony not taxable is less incentive for paying higher alimony.
[09:53] Alimony payments before TCJA took effect still follow the old law.
[12:27] Alimony is a defined term in the IRS code. It has to be paid in cash and to the former spouse or on the former spouse's behalf.
[14:25] Maryland has a default law that says the payment stop on the death of the recipient.
[16:23] What qualifies as a written instrument? Defined in Section 71 subsection B. These are divorce decrees, marital settlement agreements, or agreements incident to a divorce.
[17:28] The US tax court says a written instrument doesn't need to satisfy certain requirements.
[18:52] Be careful about written exchanges with a soon-to-be former spouse.
[20:26] It's likely that prenuptial agreements don't qualify.
[24:27] Attorney's fees are no longer tax deductible. A lot of items that used to be deductible are no longer deductible.
[26:42] This tax cut expires in 2025 will go back to what the law was in 2017.
[27:22] Standardized deductions. When people don't itemize, they take the standard deduction. Some itemized deductions have been taken away but the standard deduction has been raised. It has almost doubled for most filing statuses.
[29:11] Personal and dependent exemptions have also been changed. From 2018 to 2025, the personal exemption and the dependency exemption are now zero.
[31:44] Shared custody can impact the dependent exemption. It becomes a race to file the tax return first and claim the children as your dependent. If there is a lack of agreement, whoever has more nights with the children gets to claim the exemption.
[33:34] The IRS instructions and the law may be different. The statute says the custodial parent takes the exemption.
[35:26] It's important to know who has more time with the children during the year.
[39:23] The child tax credit. The TCJA doubled the child tax credit to $2000.
[40:17]
Estate Planning after a Divorce with guest Michelle Chapin
Michelle is one of my law partners and an exceptional attorney at the law firm of Paley Rothman in Bethesda, Maryland. She is a member of our estate planning, tax, and corporate practice groups where she advises individuals, families, and small business owners regarding their estate and gift planning needs.
She is recognized as a top trust and estates lawyer in Washingtonian Magazine. She excels at explaining complex and advanced concepts in a way that is succinct and easy to understand. We often refer clients to one another. I know it's really important to Michelle to make sure that her clients feel comfortable with the estate plans that she prepares for them.
On today's show, she is going to walk us through some tips about what the estate planning process looks like for divorcing individuals. We also talk about important documents that all individuals should have, especially those going through the divorce process.
You can find Michelle here:
Paley Rothman Attorneys at Law
Michelle Chapin on LinkedIn
(301)951-9353
Show Notes:
[01:53] Michelle advises clients on how to leave their assets at death and how to protect themselves if they are incapacitated. She also helps clients with minor children name guardians in their will or if they are incapacitated.
[02:33] She also helps clients who have modest means who need trusts.
[03:10] Everyone needs an estate plan whether they are married or divorced. You should want to leave your estate to someone in particular.
[03:53] Estate planning is state-specific. Michelle represents Maryland, DC, and Virginia. It's best to have local counsel wherever you reside.
[04:54] When people aren't getting divorced the estate plan is a joint representation.
[07:26] Conflict has to be waived in order to represent just one of the spouses.
[07:55] An estate plan isn't just your will. It could also include an irrevocable trust where your next named trustee could step in for your capacity.
[08:41] People also require a financial power of attorney and a medical directive. You also want to update beneficiary designations for retirement benefits and life insurance.
[10:23] A divorce usually affects all of these documents, because people normally name their spouse in every position.
[10:48] Some states have laws where if your spouse is in a fiduciary position and you get divorced that position will be revoked.
[11:08] You don't want to rely on state law. You want to have your own plan and do what's best for your needs.
[11:28] A fiduciary is a person that you've named to act in your best interest.
[14:38] Proactively update your destinations upon divorce.
[16:18] You can revoke a will by tearing it up. You can also create a new will and include language that revokes your older will. It's still a good idea to destroy your old will or tear it up.
[18:41] They hold their clients wills free of charge, so they don't accidentally get revoked. A fireproof box is the best place to keep a will.
[20:26] If you divorce, your Inherited property isn't divided. The augmented estate - if you disinherit a spouse, they can make a claim against your estate when you die.
[22:26] A prenuptial agreement can be used to keep property separate after divorce.
[22:49] The estate can be made a gift for the person's children and put in a trust.
[23:40]
Repeal of Alimony Law - 75 Years in the Making
Happy New Year. Welcome to the very first episode of The Divorce Chronicles for 2019. I'm excited for what's to come in 2019. With the passing of President Trump's new tax law called The Tax Cuts and Jobs Acts of 2017, there are dramatic changes in regards to alimony payments. Today, I'm going to provide clarity about what this new tax law means for you.
Show Notes:
[01:30] The mere mention of taxes usually puts me to sleep, but this Tax Act is anything but boring.
[01:39] This new tax law repeal a law that has been in effect for 75 years.
[01:59] Alimony or spousal support is is Money Paid from one former spouse to the other. This would be the payor paying to the payee.
[02:28] This could be for a specified time or indefinitely. Alimony is usually paid on a monthly basis.
[02:31] For the past 75 years, alimony has been tax deductible for the payor and the payee has to pay taxes on it.
[02:45] This was the law up until December 31st 2018.
[03:06] How TCJA has impacted alimony.
[03:19] Divorce decrees executed before December 31st 2018 are not affected by the new tax laws.
[03:47] There is an exception. If the agreement is modified after December 31st 2018, then TCJA will apply.
[04:58] Let's say a spouse is making $200,000 annually and pays $50,000 a year to their former spouse who is earning $40,000 a year.
[05:23] The spouse will only have to pay taxes on that $150,000 they earned.
[05:45] The recipient spouse will pay taxes on $90,000.
[06:39] With the new law, the spouse earning $200,000 and paying $50,000 is no longer allowed to deduct that $50,000 that they are paying to the other spouse.
[07:02] The recipient spouse will only have to pay taxes on their annual salary of $40,000.
[07:38] I hope these examples with actual figures provides a more definitive explanation of the new tax laws.
[07:47] If you execute an alimony agreement before December 31st 2018, the payer can deduct the alimony amount and the payee will pay taxes on it.
[08:24] Agreements executed after December 31st 2018 are governed by the new tax laws. This means alimony paid is no longer a deduction. Spouses that receive alimony no longer have to pay taxes on it.
[08:51] All of the old agreements executed before December 31st 2018 are still valid and executable.
[09:03] There is an exception if the agreement is modified after that date.
Do you have any topics that you would like me to cover in future shows? Let me know in the comments below. Don’t forget to subscribe to the show, and if you are enjoying what you hear please leave a review on iTunes.
Links and Resources:
The Tax Cuts and Jobs Acts of 2017
The Divorce Chronicles Episode #8
The Often Overlooked Emotional Aspects of Divorce with guest Robin Tucker
Sometimes, we can get bogged down in the legal and financial aspects of the divorce process, but the emotional aspects of divorce are very real and very raw. Robin Tucker is a psychotherapist and parent coach who helps individuals and families manage the emotional trauma of divorce. She offers remote sessions, in-person sessions, and has her upcoming Divorce Recovery 1.0 support group.
We discuss the emotional state that people beginning the divorce process are in and some of the steps that they can take to recover emotionally. Robin talks about the different stages that people going through divorce go through and shares advice for moving on in a healthy way. She also talks about the importance of support and having people to talk to as opposed to being isolated and ruminating.
You can find Robin Tucker here:
Robin Tucker
Show Notes:
[01:51] Robin is a coach and a therapist. She works primarily with men and women who are navigating the divorce process. She also provides parent coaching for divorced parents. She also works with couples.
[02:18] Robin is located in Northwest Washington DC. She has in-person clients and she also works remotely with clients. She also runs groups in person.
[03:30] She works with couples who are just beginning to dissolve their marriage, and she also works with parents to help negotiate the divorce process, and how they envision their connection through the difficult process.
[05:31] When people first come into Robin's office they are usually shocked and kind of in a numb phase. The first thing she does is to take an assessment for safety.
[06:29] Then they begin processing the news of getting divorced and what that means for them.
[06:38] Most people go into automatic pilot. They show up, but they aren't really present.
[07:40] Clients are initially in survival mode. They are really just focusing on what they can do to get through the next day.
[08:29] Sometimes clients are fixated on their ex-partner and what happened. It takes time to process this experience and move forward.
[09:42] Once Robin finds out how the client is feeling and where they are in the process, she can sit down and delve into their feelings. She encourages clients to focus on what is more important for them.
[12:12] With couples they need to express how they are feeling without being defensive or feeling like they need to fix things.
[13:05] With domestic violence Robin's primary concern is making sure that they have a safe place to live. Do they need a restraining order? Is there something that needs to be put in place so they can function safely?
[14:28] Violence can escalate when a partner leaves a relationship, so Robin encourages victims to have a safe place where they aren't accessible. She also assesses whether to report to the police.
[15:22] She also works with attorneys and other mental health professionals. She is there to fully support her clients. She might work with older children but not younger children.
[16:34] The first stage clients often go through is denial. The next phase is to process the pain or the experience of abandonment.
[19:39] It's rare, but sometimes couples reconcile. It's human nature to remember the value of that which you are about to lose.
[21:39] Difficult aspects of the process include sharing custody, having to see a spouse that you have been hurt by, having to maintain civil contact, and pressure from extended family. Holidays are also challenging.
[23:27] There is light at the end of the tunnel thou
TDC007 Show Notes
The Impact of Domestic Violence on the Divorce Process With Guest Sara Tennen
October is domestic violence awareness month. In honor of that on today's episode, we'll be discussing the impact of domestic violence on the divorce process. Did you know, on average, nearly 20 people per minute are physically abused by an intimate partner in the United States?
One in three women and one in four men have been victims of some form of physical violence by an intimate partner within their lives. On a typical day more than 20,000 phone calls are placed to domestic violence hotlines. Women between the ages of 18 and 24 are most commonly abused by an intimate partner. Domestic victimization is correlated with a higher rate of depression and suicidal behavior.
This is why today's guest is Sara Tennen. Sara is the legal director of the DC Volunteer Lawyers Project commonly known as DCVLP. She oversees the domestic violence and child advocacy program. She also leads the volunteer training and recruitment efforts.
She's a trained mediator and forensics interviewer who earned a law degree and Masters in social work from Case Western Reserve University. She also has a bachelors in psychology and women's studies from the University of Rochester. She is also a prosecutor and highly qualified to talk about today’s topic.
You can find Sara here:
DC Volunteer Lawyers Project
Show Notes:
[02:41] This is the 10th year of DCVLP providing high-quality pro bono legal services to domestic violence victims.
[03:12] They focus on representing domestic violence survivors in obtaining protection orders and ongoing custody and divorce litigation.
[03:32] Their lawyers also serve as court appointed guardians for at risk children.
[04:12] Sara has been practicing law for 15 years. She also has a degree in social work, and she feels her experience as a trained mediator is critical.
[05:21] Sara was one of Tracey's first DCVLP supervisors. She was a wonderful example and a delight to work with.
[06:11] Domestic violence has many different faces. The definition is violent or aggressive behavior that occurs between two people who have an intimate partner relationship.
[06:59] The violence transcends all races and genders and can be physical, emotional, or sexual.
[07:32] There is frequently an element of control with abusers. This can include isolation or controlling where the victim goes or how they spend money.
[08:20] Abusers can be master manipulators. They can appear incredibly nice and respectful.
[09:15] They can appear wonderful until they get behind closed doors.
[10:25] The cycle of domestic violence. On average it takes seven attempts before the victim finally leaves the abuser. This is because there is an incident, apologies, calmness, then another incident. There can also be issues with finding a place to live or religious or cultural factors.
[11:42] Isolation by abusers has long-term implications.
[13:25] Boys who grow up witnessing domestic violence are twice as likely to be abusers when they are adults. Girls in the same situation are twice as likely to be abused.
[14:16] Victims are male and female. Relationships are hetero sexual or same sex relationships or transgendered.
[15:31] For men, there is a level of embarrassment from being the victim.
[16:18] A restraining order can give immediate relief. Individuals can file for divorce and custody of children.
[18:24] After an incident occurs, the victim can go to the courthouse and file paperwork for a protecti
The Divorce Chronicles Episode 6
Tips for Unrepresented Parties in Domestic Matters With Guest Bibi Berry
Family magistrate Bibi Berry is here today. Before joining the judiciary, Magistrate Berry was a principal member and my former partner at the law firm of Paley Rothman in Bethesda, Maryland. She devoted most of her legal career to the practice of family law. She is a dear friend and a very smart and experienced family law practitioner.
She received her undergraduate degree from Howard University and her law degree from Georgetown University Law Center. She has served as a faculty member for the Family Law University for Sitting Judges and Magistrates, the American Institute of CPAs expert witness workshops on business valuations, and is an associate adjunct professor with the American University Washington College of Law. If she's not in the courtroom, she could be on the golf course.
You can find Bibi here:
Judges & Magistrates
Show Notes:
[04:30] Bibi has practiced family law in the state of Maryland for 15 years.
[05:17] She recently became a family magistrate with the Maryland Judiciary in Montgomery County.
[05:49] Magistrates and judges are very similar. Bibi serves a dual function to help clear the docket and help advise the judges. They conduct preliminary hearings.
[07:35] They conduct evidentiary and non-evidentiary hearings. They make recommendations as to what should occur.
[09:11] Fact finders have to parse through all of the noise and get to what is truly relevant to the case.
[09:54] About 60% of Bibi's litigants are unrepresented.
[10:43] If you are going to be involved in a case, it is absolutely beneficial to seek representation.
[11:20] Your attorney will know the law, the rules of procedure, and be able to navigate through the court.
[12:35] They will know the terminology and how to put together a case that is persuasive to the judge.
[13:26] It's not a good idea to represent yourself and be emotionally tied to what you are going through.
[14:20] To navigate the judicial system, find available resources that will help you educate yourself. It's also a good idea to look for pro bono representation. Educate yourself as much as possible and use the courthouse library.
[16:45] You can also look into hiring an attorney or a limited scope of time. Also look at the self-help centers located at many courthouses.
[19:40] At least have a consult with an attorney. Things are a little less daunting when you spend a couple hours with an experienced attorney. They can talk to you about issues, expectations, and the process. They will also give you an idea of what information you will need to present to the court.
[21:28] Read your paperwork before you go to the initial hearing. You can give a brief opening statement and present evidence and facts. You will be put under oath. If you are the moving party, you have the burden of proving. Find relevant facts.
[24:28] Evidence includes witnesses, documents, and other items.
[24:57] Objections are rules that preclude certain types of evidence from being presented to the court. One of these objections is hearsay.
[28:07] Children aren't usually brought in to testify, because we don't want them involved in the legal process unless they really need to be there. The child should have an attorney to relay their perspective.
[30:31] Objections concerning relevancy. It's important to object to any evidence that is not relevant to the case.
[32:09] Making an objection because a person is lying is not a proper objection.
Episode 5 Margie Hofberg Show Notes
Mortgage Lending Issues Unique to Separating Couples With Guest Margie Hofberg
What happens when two spouses that are joint owners of a home get divorced? One spouse may want to remain in the home while the other spouse is planning on moving out. What if there is a sizeable mortgage that the remaining spouse may or may not be able to afford? Is there a way to lower the existing mortgage, so that the remaining spouse is able to realistically afford it?
What if the remaining spouse hasn’t been in the workforce for a while or has been working part-time? What if the only income they are planning on receiving is alimony? Will the spouse who leaves be able to remove his or her name from the title and mortgage? These are some of the many questions that come up with home ownership and divorce.
Joining me today to tackle these questions is Margie Hofberg. Margie has over 30 years of experience in the mortgage industry and is the owner of Residential Mortgage Center Inc. She is a mortgage expert and shares a wealth of wisdom and practical advice on mortgage issues that are unique to separating couples.
You can find Margie here:
Residential Mortgage Center Inc
Show Notes:
[02:08] We are in person for this podcast.
[02:39] Margie is a mortgage lender who started her company in 1984. She is experienced.
[02:55] She has seen the industry change dramatically and go up and down.
[03:05] About 15 years ago, she started working more and more with families going through separation and divorce.
[03:20] She felt that she could really help people not only with her mortgage knowledge, but also with her softer skills.
[03:38] About 60% of the new loans she quotes are for divorcing couples.
[03:51] Her company is licensed in the DC Metro area.
[04:03] What couples are facing when going through divorce and one party wants to stay in the home.
[04:30] When one couple wants to stay in the home Margie helps them with an equity buyout.
[04:58] An equity buyout is a refinance as one owner of a house. A refinance is easier than a purchase. You have to have equity and cannot be underwater.
[05:42] Question one is what do you think the value of the house is? Then find the balance of the mortgage and make some assumptions.
[06:10] It's the value of the house minus the existing mortgage divided by two. This would equal the equity buyout.
[06:47] Let's say it's a $400,000 house and there is a $200,000 mortgage and $200,000 of equity. To buy the other person's share of equity it would be $100,000.
[07:22] What you would do is get a new mortgage to pay off the old mortgage plus the $100,000 in equity and closing costs. So the new loan would be $305,000.
[08:21] Find the least expensive and most reliable source to determine value. Often times, a realtor in the neighborhood will know or do a certified market analysis or CMA.
[09:46] The next step would be to determine a payment. Then you need to see if you can afford the payment. How much income do you need to qualify for that loan.
[10:35] Factors to qualify for a loan.
[10:49] The first hurdle is your debt to income ratio. Your gross monthly income compared to monthly housing expense which includes mortgage payment, credit card minimums, car loans, and student loans.
[11:56] Support can be qualifying income for a mortgage.
[12:32] You will need a signed agreement. A si
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