The Trending Communicator

Here they are again—marketers and communicators worried that

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle reconnects with Park Howell, the brain behind the Business of Story and creator of the Story Cycle Genie—an AI tool designed to amplify human storytelling rather than replace it.

While everyone's rushing to automate their content creation, Park and Dan explore why the brands winning in this fractured landscape are the ones doubling down on distinctly human narratives. They dig into the paradox

This isn't your typical "AI versus humans" conversation. It's about how communications professionals can use AI as their storytelling co-pilot while ensuring their brand narratives remain so authentically human that no algorithm could replicate them. Because in a world drowning in AI-generated content, being genuinely, unapologetically human might

Listen in and hear about...

Notable Quotes

On the Power of Storytelling: "A story is about a man

On Business Storytelling: "In business, the stories we need to tell are in solution to our customers problems. What are they going through, what are they experiencing, what do they want and why is it important to them?" - Park Howell [05:09 → 05:22]

On AI-Generated Stories: "It wasn't even my eyes at first. It was a feeling. I first had this feeling inside of me like, this doesn't feel right. Then I used my senses, my eyes, in my ears to scrutinize it." - Park Howell [12:28 → 12:39]

On the Importance of Brand Story: "Speed to market. I mean everything is accelerating around us and those that are dragging behind are going to lose out." - Park Howell [01:01:53 → 01:02:01]

On AI in Storytelling: "Instead of taking three months to define and refine your brand story. You can now do it in minutes, literally, instead of, and, and by the way, saving the tens of thousands of dollars it typically takes for you to do that down to a few hundred bucks." - Park Howell [01:02:01 → 01:02:21]

On the Value of Human Expertise: "The AI is only as good as the wisdom that lies behind it and the IP that lies behind it." - Dan Nestle [01:09:18 → 01:09:25]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

Park Howell

Timestamps

0:00 Intro: AI for self-inspection and storytelling

5:33 Defining story: Man in a hole analogy

12:50 AI's impact on storytelling and human touch

20:55 Using AI to understand your brand story

28:56 The power of dialogue in authentic stories

38:39 Introducing the Story Cycle Genie tool

47:28 Analyzing Dan's brand story with the Genie

54:59 Iterating and improving brand messaging

1:01:53 Speed to market with AI-powered storytelling

1:07:52 Integrating Story Cycle Genie in enterprises

1:10:16 Closing thoughts and where to find Park

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Humans are in a tough spot right now. Seems like everyone's talking about AI disruption, how to "stay human," why humans will be more or less important, and on and on. But one thing remains certain: business transformation will fail without a human-centric approach.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with change management and change communications legend Kate Bullinger, CEO of United Minds, to discuss the critical role of human-centric approaches in managing organizational change. With over two decades of experience partnering with senior executives on enterprise transformations, Kate shares her wisdom and insights on building purpose-driven cultures and high-performing teams.

From M&As to restructuring and leadership transitions, Kate and Dan examine the complexities of change management in today's constantly disrupted business environment. They explore how AI and technology can enhance communication strategies while emphasizing the importance of maintaining a human touch. Kate offers practical advice on creating effective change playbooks, addressing employee concerns, and navigating the challenges of fractured audiences within organizations.

Listen in and hear about...

Notable Quotes

Human-Centric Change: "Change can't happen if you don't

Communication During Uncertainty: "Even getting out

Employee Engagement: "The more people feel like they've had a voice or they've had some fingerprint on the process, the more they feel bought in." - Kate Bullinger [29:08 → 29:31]

Future Leadership: "When you think about 10 years from now, what is it going to look like to lead a large global organization? I don't. Those leaders won't be in their jobs anymore.” - Kate Bullinger [1:03:52 → 1:04:20]

Change Management: "It's not that people are processing faster, but that our ability to engage them in a meaningful and more targeted way that's stakeholder-centric. Even inside the organization, I think is where we want to lean into AI and technology." - Kate Bullinger [1:04:20 → 1:04:35]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

Kate Bullinger

Timestamps

0:00 Intro: AI content debate on LinkedIn

5:07 Human-centric approach in business transformation

10:37 Challenges of communicating during change

15:42 Creating a North Star vision for change

21:52 Types of business transformations

28:31 Leadership behaviors during organizational change

34:18 Navigating uncertainty as a communications leader

40:19 Using AI tools for employee sentiment analysis

45:11 Developing a modern change management playbook

51:53 Communications teams as organizational nerve centers

59:55 Unique skills gained from managing transitions

1:03:26 Future of leadership in evolving workplaces

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and  Flowsend.ai )

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If you're thinking "cultural communications" is another way to say "DEI," you may want to broaden your perspective. Culture comms might just be the key to building trust when the stakes are high - especially in healthcare.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle connects with award-winning healthcare communicator Alicia Gibson Wright, founder of GW Health Public Relations, to challenge conventional wisdom about cultural communications in healthcare. They examine how the COVID-19 pandemic exposed deep-rooted trust issues and health disparities, pushing communicators to rethink their approach. Alicia shares insights from her extensive career, highlighting the importance of tailoring messages to diverse audiences while maintaining factual consistency.

The conversation extends beyond traditional DEI frameworks, examining how authentic storytelling and cultural understanding can enhance health outcomes and drive business success. This episode presents a fresh perspective on the future of healthcare communications, where flexibility and cultural fluency are not just nice-to-haves but essential tools for reaching and resonating with increasingly diverse and fractured audiences.

Listen in and hear about...

Notable Quotes

On the Complexity of Healthcare Communications: "There's so many layers in between those two things from the hospital and the pharmaceutical company. There's the providers, there's the policymakers, there's the patient, there are the loved ones. That whole kaleidoscope of different audiences that are connected to healthcare." - Aleisia Gibson Wright [13:00 → 13:21]

On the Importance of Trust in Healthcare: "I think the most important thing now with healthcare is the aspects of trust and understanding how important it is to not just understand what the medicine is, but to trust the source of the information of the actual product you're taking." - Aleisia Gibson Wright [17:38 → 17:55]

On the Challenges of AI in Healthcare: "I think once we are able to scrape or infuse accurate medical information into these AI tools then perhaps. But there's so many medical inaccuracies out there that live on the web and that will perpetuate through AI platforms that we can't 100% trust." - Aleisia Gibson Wright [45:38 → 45:57]

On the Power of Storytelling in Healthcare: "The more we can storytell, the more we can show real people, I think that too helps us sort of hurtle over the de and I aspect. If you're just storytelling, you're just showcasing a person's real life lived experience, that's just storytelling." - Aleisia Gibson Wright [53:31 → 53:48]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

Aleisia Gibson Wright

Timestamps

0:00 Intro: Navigating the communications minefield

5:25 Serendipitous networking and unexpected connections

10:51 Evolution of healthcare communications landscape

16:10 Patient expectations and trust in healthcare

23:27 Mass communication challenges in healthcare

32:37 Cultural aspects in healthcare communications

38:23 AI's potential and limitations in healthcare

46:31 Balancing AI and human interaction in healthcare

52:59 The power of storytelling in healthcare communications

58:36 Flexible approach to evolving healthcare landscape

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and Flowsend.ai )

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

How do we work with AI in a way that keeps the human part intact? Because while AI can handle the process, it’s still on us to bring the perspective, the empathy, and the meaning that make communication matter.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle reconnects with seasoned media analyst, communications strategist, digital innovator, and social media OG, Steve Rubel. Steve - now EVP of Media Insights & Measurement at Burson, a role he began after recording this episode - shares his journey from the early days of social media to his current focus on AI's impact on communications, discussing the dual nature of AI as both a creator and a disruptor of value in the industry.

Steve and Dan discuss the challenges and opportunities AI presents, from its role in media analysis to its potential to redefine job functions. They highlight the importance of continuous learning and the need for professionals to become "companies of one," investing in their skills to stay ahead.

Listen in and hear about...

Notable Quotes

On AI's Impact on Communications: "AI could be a value creator, but it also has equal power, if not more power, to be a value destructor." - Steve Rubel [22:57]

On Disrupting Yourself: "It's disrupting yourself before somebody else disrupts you." - Steve Rubel [45:26]

On the Future of Communications: "I'm just very bullish about the communications industry and its prospects going forward, especially given what I talked about at the top about this tremendous societal, geopolitical and environmental changes that are in front of us right now and the need for good, solid counsel all around to advise how to navigate all that." - Steve Rubel [1:17:20]

On Adapting to AI: "Don't be afraid if it's destroying aspects of your work. There's nothing you can do about that other than figuring out how to also turn it and mirror it into a Net plus for you." - Steve Rubel [1:19:25]

On Learning with AI: "But what I love about the experience of sitting down with it is it just indulges my curiosity and my, like, my kind of fantastical ideas." - Dan Nestle [1:08:44]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

Steve Rubel

Timestamps

0:00 Intro

4:12 Discussion on "Seven Habits" and personal reflections

8:13 Steve Rubel discusses career evolution and blogging's impact

12:12 Dan Nestle discusses humility and change

16:19 Discussion on AI's Transformational Impact

19:07 Technological Change and Communications

24:44 Discussion on AI's impact on junior roles

27:23 Communications and Social Media Impact

29:51 AI and Workforce Adaptation

34:20 Leadership and AI's Role

37:13 Discussion on ANA AI Conference

41:01 Steve Rubel discusses AI experience

46:01 Steve Rubel discusses his role in qualitative research and adapting during the pandemic

49:04 Excel and Media Strategy

53:48 Experience and Evolution

57:08 Media Analysis and Strategy

1:01:20 Media and Client Expectations

1:05:40 Technological Revolution and Displacement

1:08:44 Curiosity and Learning with AI

1:12:03 Safe Use of AI Tools

1:17:20 Steve Rubel expresses optimism about the communications industry's future

1:19:25 Discussion on AI's impact on jobs

1:22:17 Outro

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is AI a miracle, heralding an age of invention, or the harbinger of a dystopian civilizational collapse? The rise of short-form video on social platforms - empowering creators, or undermining society? The only certainty these days is uncertainty. But for curious minds, that's precisely what makes it exciting.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle catches up with Emanuel Rose, CEO of Strategic eMarketing and author of Authentic Marketing in the Age of AI, Authenticity: Marketing to Generation Z,  The Social Media Edge, numerous e-books, and children's books.  As a storyteller, marketer, and dubbed by Dan as a Renaissance man, Emanuel brings a unique perspective to the discussion on AI, generational differences in technology adoption, and the future of communication.

The conversation touches on the challenges and opportunities presented by AI in marketing and communications, with Emanuel sharing insights on how businesses can start integrating AI into their operations. They discuss the importance of maintaining human creativity in storytelling while leveraging AI tools, and the potential for AI to free up time for more meaningful pursuits.

Listen in and hear about...

Notable Quotes

On Staying Curious: "I just, I follow the rabbit holes and that's kind of what I think is the joy of being a human. And we have access to so much information now, we can learn anything we want. And the secret is to stay curious." - Emanuel Rose [3:41 - 4:05]

On Human Consciousness and Technology: "Our job is not to click buttons any more than it is to swing a hoe. Right. So we have to get out of our Cartesian framework." - Emanuel Rose [9:42 - 9:50]

On Generational Differences in Technology Adoption: "The Z's just. They just absorb this stuff and, you know, and then, you know, they were all. All the way down to the alphas. Now they're. You know, they're like 8, 9, 10, that range. And so it's like they're going to absorb it in the same kind of way." - Emanuel Rose [17:23 - 17:35]

On the Role of Humans in AI-Generated Content: "I think the human in the loop is the critical part of this. And it's kind of like, could I have my doppelganger, my video doppelganger, do all my zoom calls for me? Well, yeah, I can. I can do that now." - Emanuel Rose [40:25 - 40:35]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

Emanuel Rose

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro: Embracing chaos and technological change

5:10 Rise of AI agents and retail-level automation

9:42 Philosophical approach to AI and human purpose

15:51 Generational differences in technology adoption

20:18 Managing screen time and digital detox

25:07 Lack of AI adoption in small businesses

30:39 The future of voice-activated AI assistants

35:42 Importance of effective AI prompting skills

40:25 Balancing AI capabilities with human values

45:18 Leveraging existing content with custom GPTs

49:59 Automating tasks to focus on creativity

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is AI a miracle, heralding an age of invention, or the harbinger of a dystopian civilizational collapse? The rise of short-form video on social platforms - empowering creators, or undermining society? The only certainty these days is uncertainty. But for curious minds, that's precisely what makes it exciting.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle catches up with Emanuel Rose, CEO of Strategic eMarketing and author of Authentic Marketing in the Age of AI, Authenticity: Marketing to Generation Z,  The Social Media Edge, numerous e-books, and children's books.  As a storyteller, marketer, and dubbed by Dan as a Renaissance man, Emanuel brings a unique perspective to the discussion on AI, generational differences in technology adoption, and the future of communication.

The conversation touches on the challenges and opportunities presented by AI in marketing and communications, with Emanuel sharing insights on how businesses can start integrating AI into their operations. They discuss the importance of maintaining human creativity in storytelling while leveraging AI tools, and the potential for AI to free up time for more meaningful pursuits.

Emanuel and Dan also examine the generational divide in AI adoption, particularly focusing on Gen X and Gen Z, and how different age groups approach new technologies. They consider the impact of screen time on younger generations and the potential long-term effects on communication skills and social interaction.

Throughout the episode, Emanuel emphasizes the need for businesses to embrace change and automate processes to remain competitive. He shares practical advice on tools for automation and discusses the concept of "retail-level" AI agents that could revolutionize how we work.

This episode offers valuable insights for communicators, marketers, and business leaders looking to navigate the rapidly changing technological landscape. Whether you're an AI enthusiast or skeptic, you'll find food for thought in this engaging discussion about the future of work, creativity, and human interaction in an AI-driven world.

Listen in and hear about...

• Embracing chaos in an era of rapid technological change
• Generational differences in AI adoption and digital habits
• Leveraging AI for content repurposing and brand storytelling
• Automating mundane tasks to focus on creative pursuits
• Balancing screen time and digital detox for mental well-being
• Adapting communication strategies for Gen Z audiences
• Exploring the future of voice-activated AI assistants

Notable Quotes

On Staying Curious: "I just, I follow the rabbit holes and that's kind of what I think is the joy of being a human. And we have access to so much information now, we can learn anything we want. And the secret is to stay curious." - Emanuel Rose [3:41 - 4:05]

On AI and Automation: "We're actually able to build, very simply build automations, which maybe not is really AI, but at least we're able to connect things via ZAP and via MAKE and some of these kind of activities." - Emanuel Rose [5:10 - 5:22]

On Human Consciousness and Technology: "Our job is not to click buttons any more than it is to swing a hoe. Right. So we have to get out of our Cartesian framework." - Emanuel Rose [9:42 - 9:50]

On Generational Differences in Technology Adoption: "The Z's just. They just absorb this stuff and, you know, and then, you know, they were all. All the way down to the alphas. Now they're. You know, they're like 8, 9, 10, that range. And so it's like they're going to absorb it in the same kind of way." - Emanuel Rose [17:23 - 17:35]

On the Future of Voice Interaction: "We're very close. I'd say three months. We will have a complete voice activated operating system and be able to do probably 90% of our work by voice." - Emanuel Rose [33:15 - 33:23]

On the Role of Humans in AI-Generated Content: "I think the human in the loop is the critical part of this. And it's kind of like, could I have my doppelganger, my video doppelganger, do all my zoom calls for me? Well, yeah, I can. I can do that now." - Emanuel Rose [40:25 - 40:35]

On Automation and Work-Life Balance: "Well, I really am thinking about what I can automate. No matter how big of a string of activities, I want to automate all the stuff that is not creative so that I can spend more time playing my guitar and more time meditating and more time taking long walks and maintain the level of professional standards that I have." - Emanuel Rose [49:59 - 50:17]

On the Chaos of Technological Change: "I'm enjoying the chaos of the moment. Now hang on. Easy does it. I'm not talking about foreign or domestic affairs or politics. I mean, we live in an age where we simply don't know what's coming. Great for curious people." - Dan Nestle [0:00 - 0:13]

On the Potential of AI in Storytelling: "I think it comes down to storytelling, you know, and no, I mean, AI could tell a story. You give it a framework, right? Say, hey, I want you to follow this framework. But is there that innate capability There isn't yet to outpace humans or outdo humans in this idea of storytelling, whether it's creative storytelling or brand storytelling." - Dan Nestle [38:02 - 38:22]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Emanuel Rose

• Emanuel Rose | Website
• Strategic eMarketing | Website
• Books by Emanuel Rose | Website
• Emanuel Rose | LinkedIn

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎙️ Introduction and Overview of Emanuel Rose (00:00 - 04:35)

• Emanuel Rose introduced as CEO of Strategic E Marketing.
• Discussion on shared interests in AI and technology trends.
• Both hosts are Gen Xers observing rapid changes.

🤖 The Rise of Agentic AI (04:36 - 10:32)

• Emanuel discusses 'agentic AI' and its independent actions.
• Highlights Anthropic's Model Context Protocol (MCP).
• Predictions on automation in podcast production.

💡 Philosophy of AI and Generational Technology Adoption (10:33 - 21:35)

• Automation should free humans for deeper experiences.
• Generational differences in tech adoption discussed.
• Gen X slower to adopt compared to Millennials and Gen Z.

🏢 Business Adoption of AI and Generational Differences (21:36 - 32:08)

• Surprise at slow AI adoption among small businesses.
• 'Lunch and learn' workshops to educate clients.
• Focus on business needs before selecting tools.

🗣️ Conversational AI and Voice-Based Systems (32:09 - 42:33)

• Examples of voice-based AI systems shared.
• Predictions on voice-activated operating systems.
• Importance of prompting skills discussed.

📖 AI and Storytelling, Future Outlook (42:34 - 53:42)

• AI's role in storytelling emphasized.
• Human element remains essential for emotional connection.
• Encouragement to embrace technological change.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro: Embracing chaos and technological change

5:10 Rise of AI agents and retail-level automation

9:42 Philosophical approach to AI and human purpose

15:51 Generational differences in technology adoption

20:18 Managing screen time and digital detox

25:07 Lack of AI adoption in small businesses

30:39 The future of voice-activated AI assistants

35:42 Importance of effective AI prompting skills

40:25 Balancing AI capabilities with human values

45:18 Leveraging existing content with custom GPTs

49:59 Automating tasks to focus on creativity

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

Are we going in the right direction as communicators? In an era of dramatic policy shifts, cultural upheaval, and a fractured media landscape, how do we trudge onward through the muck without losing our way? Weighty questions indeed.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with Elie Jacobs, founding partner of Purposeful Advisors, to tackle the thorny issues facing today's communications professionals. With over two decades of experience in public policy and advocacy, Elie brings a wealth of insights to the table. From his early days in President Clinton's post-presidential office to his current role advising startups and mid-size companies, Elie has witnessed firsthand the evolution of the communications profession.

This wide-ranging conversation covers critical topics like the impact of AI on truth and objectivity, the challenges of maintaining purpose in a "perma-crisis" environment, and the delicate balance between business imperatives and societal responsibilities. Elie and Dan discuss the pitfalls of chasing trends versus staying true to core business objectives, and debate the proper role of communicators in shaping corporate policies on contentious issues.

Throughout the episode, Elie emphasizes the importance of critical thinking, curiosity, and maintaining perspective in an increasingly polarized world. He argues for a return to fundamentals - focusing on clear business purposes rather than getting caught up in the latest social media firestorms. The discussion also touches on generational divides in the workplace and how early career experiences shape communicators' approaches to risk and decision-making.

Whether you're a seasoned PR pro or just starting out in the field, this episode offers valuable food for thought on the current state and future direction of strategic communications. Elie's candid insights and Dan's probing questions combine to create a thought-provoking exploration of our profession's most pressing challenges. Don't miss this opportunity to gain fresh perspective on navigating the complex waters of modern corporate communications.

Listen in and hear about... 

• Navigating the perma-crisis era as a communications professional
• How early career experiences shape strategic advisory skills
• Balancing business imperatives with societal responsibilities
• Critical thinking's vital role in the age of AI-driven information
• Adapting communication strategies to rapid political shifts
• Purposeful advising: focusing on a company's core mission
• Nuanced approaches to diversity and inclusion in corporate settings

Notable Quotes

On Career Beginnings: "The way I got into this was, you know, just sheer dumb luck. I didn't know what I wanted to do when I finished school. And then 911 happened and I picked up with cliche duffel bag of clothes and a duffel bag of GMAT books and LSAT books and GRE books and went off to Israel to try to figure out what to do." - Elie Jacobs [2:30 - 3:57]

On the Path to Communications: "I don't know that. You know, people talk about having a calling, right? Some people have calling calling to the pulpit, regardless of what religion it is. Other people have callings to be doctors, other people have callings to be teachers. I'm not sure I've met anybody who has a calling to be a lawyer. I don't think I've ever met somebody who has a calling to be a public relations or communications specialist." - Elie Jacobs [6:48 - 7:15]

On Representing Important Figures: "The only thing that was really said to us was you represent him, which also means you're representing his wife, who was then the senator. So that kind of weighs on you a little bit." - Elie Jacobs [12:36 - 12:45]

On Dealing with High-Pressure Situations: "Once Bill Clinton completely loses his temper at you, your perspective on things changes a great deal. He lost it at me because I happened to be. I. I was just in the way." - Elie Jacobs [13:40 - 13:50]

On the Importance of Critical Thinking: "Critical thinking is something that we actually have to call out now as something that, okay, we, we really need. Critical thinkers used to be almost a given that, you know, you, one of the reasons why either you are hired for an important job or, or that, you know, when you come out of college or wherever you've been, that, you know, critical thinking is part of the resume." - Dan Nestle [18:56 - 19:19]

On the Challenges of Objective Truth in Modern Times: "The concept of objective truth has been shattered over the last 10 years. And it's not just, you know, misinformation and creative hyperbole and truth and, you know, truthful lies or whatever the term was that they came up with in the first Trump administration." - Elie Jacobs [27:04 - 27:18]

On the Evolution of Media and Truth: "For the better part of three centuries or more. There were editors who present who basically worked on something that was book length every single day and that was the news." - Elie Jacobs [43:02 - 43:12]

On the Role of Purpose in Business: "When we talk about purposeful, we're talking about, we're going to help you figure out what your purpose is. Going back to Simon Sinek's golden circle of why, how and what." - Elie Jacobs [51:43 - 51:52]

On the Importance of Business Fundamentals: "There has to be a business imperative. You can only be good for society if you're good at business." - Elie Jacobs [1:05:05 - 1:05:11]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Elie Jacobs

• Purposeful Advisors | Website
• Elie Jacobs | LinkedIn

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

👤 Guest Background and Career Path (00:00 - 09:01)

• Elie Jacobs has over two decades of experience in public policy and advocacy.
• Started as a press aide in President Clinton's post-presidential office.
• Currently a founding partner of Purposeful Advisors.

📚 Learning Experiences and Professional Development (09:01 - 18:26)

• Successful communicators need broad exposure, curiosity, and strong writing abilities.
• Elie prefers working with startup and midsize companies for greater impact.

🔄 Evolution of the Communications Profession (18:26 - 28:18)

• Critical thinking is now a highlighted skill that needs to be tested for.
• The role of communications professionals as CEO advisors and 'truth tellers'.

🤖 AI's Impact on Communications (28:18 - 38:13)

• AI is increasingly relied upon as an arbiter of truth.
• Importance of questioning AI outputs and critical thinking when using AI tools.

📰 Media Environment and Truth (38:13 - 47:36)

• The concept of 'objective truth' has been shattered over the last decade.
• Three types of communicators in the current environment.

🎯 Professional Direction and Purpose (47:36 - 57:24)

• Purposeful Advisors focuses on helping companies identify their purpose.
• Companies need to balance stakeholder interests with business imperatives.

📈 Business Focus and Future of Communications (57:24 - 01:10:47)

• Communications departments gained significant power during the pandemic.
• Future communications professionals need curiosity and philosophical thinking.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro: Host introduces guest Elie Jacobs

5:43 Unexpected paths into communications careers

11:09 Benefits of advising smaller companies

18:04 Critical thinking skills in communications

25:40 Generational shifts in politics and policy

33:46 AI's growing role as arbiter of truth

41:28 Loss of learning opportunities for junior staff

51:15 Focusing on business purpose over social issues

1:00:21 Nuance lost in corporate communications

1:07:04 Importance of curiosity in communications careers

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Faced with today's fractured mess of audiences and media, it's tempting to unleash a deluge of content and overwhelm social channels with content, hoping to reach the people who want to hear from you. Clearly, not a winning strategy - and those who think it is produce nothing more than dull, generic, reputation-breaking AI slop.  But what if the key to success lies in a concept as simple as it is powerful: distinctive discoverability?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with Rob Jekielek, Managing Director of Harris Insights and Analytics, to unpack the critical importance of audience-first strategies in modern communications. With over two decades of experience in brand and reputation research, Rob brings a wealth of knowledge on leveraging data-driven insights to craft compelling narratives that resonate across fragmented audiences.

The conversation kicks off with a sojourn into Rob's extensive background, from his early days in media analysis to his current role at the forefront of brand and audience research. Rob shares fascinating insights from recent studies, including a 14-country survey on how people find information about companies and brands. The results? Search engines reign supreme, with a staggering 79% of respondents using them often or always.

But it's not just about being found – it's about being trusted. Rob reveals that 77% of people trust the information they get from search engines, a figure that dwarfs trust in other platforms. This leads to a thought-provoking discussion on the concept of "distinctive discoverability" and its crucial role in modern communications strategies.

The episode takes an unexpected turn as Rob introduces the idea of AI as a key audience, challenging communicators to consider language models in their stakeholder maps. This fresh perspective opens up new content creation and distribution avenues, with Rob offering practical advice on balancing organic content with paid amplification.

Throughout the conversation, Rob and Dan touch on a wide range of topics, from the overreliance on social media to the enduring power of well-crafted, long-form content. They discuss the importance of context and action in building confidence and how digital insights can provide the "strategy scaffolding" often missing in communications planning.

This episode is a must-listen for communications professionals looking to cut through the noise and make a real impact. Rob's data-driven approach, combined with Dan's industry expertise, offers a roadmap for navigating the complexities of modern audience engagement. Whether you're a seasoned PR veteran or just starting your communications journey, you'll come away with actionable insights to elevate your strategy and achieve true distinctive discoverability.

Listen in and hear about... 

• Search engines' dominance in finding brand information
• Importance of distinctive discoverability in digital content
• Overreliance on social media in corporate communications
• AI as a new audience for brand messaging
• Context plus action equaling confidence in business
• Middle metrics filling the strategy gap for communications
• Practical takeaways for pitching communications initiatives

Notable Quotes

On the Power of Search Engines:

"So search engines and it's by far margin. Right. So it's like, you know, globally speaking, in aggregate, all 14 countries, 79% of people use search engines often or always, versus never or only sometimes to find information by companies and brands." - Rob Jekielek [13:14 → 13:30]

Trust in Information Sources:

"What's equally important is that 77% of people who use those tools to find information also trust the information they get back." - Rob Jekielek [13:30 → 13:37]

On the Importance of Distinctive Discoverability:

"This idea of distinctive discoverability I think is the essential idea. So how do you make sure that whatever we're putting out there is distinctive competitive positioning and how do we ensure that it's built in a way that's organically discoverable?" - Rob Jekielek [17:48 → 18:03]

On the Formula for Building Confidence:

"The formula is action plus context equals confidence. So we ask people like, how important are these issues, how confident are you? And then how are you seeing companies engaging?" - Rob Jekielek [58:57 → 59:09]

The Importance of Context in Communication:

"If people are only seeing action, confidence is actually pretty low. It's niche. It's only 25% of people would say they're confident. Right. If you. Same thing. If you see just communication. Right. Just about 25 versus when you add context, not volume, not communication to action, you pop the confidence up to over 50%." - Rob Jekielek [59:16 → 59:36]

On the Practical Application of Research:

"Honestly, I will say of all the work we're doing right now, one of the things I'm proudest of is a lot of our initial engagements have literally become the business case for how comms leaders pitch what they need to do next." - Rob Jekielek [1:01:10 → 1:01:23]

On the Importance of Owned Content:

"Build on owned land and all that, all that good stuff. But there's nothing wrong with a good rental property. I will tell you that. It's, it's also important to, to rent wisely." - Dan Nestle [56:44 → 56:54]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Rob Jekielek

• Harris Insights and Analytics - The Harris Poll | Website
• Rob Jekielek | LinkedIn

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🔍 Introduction to Rob Jekielek and His Expertise (00:00 - 13:05)

• Rob Jekielek has over 20 years of experience in brand research and corporate reputation.
• 79% of people trust search engines for brand information, significantly more than other platforms.

💡 Concept of Distinctive Discoverability (13:05 - 21:06)

• Creating standout content that is organically searchable is crucial for effective communication strategies.
• Over-reliance on social media can limit organic reach; building organic content first is advised.

🌐 Search Dynamics and Content Strategy (21:06 - 30:49)

• The PESO framework (Paid, Earned, Shared, Owned) is essential for competitive positioning.
• Good content creation fundamentals are necessary for both traditional and AI-powered search.

🤖 AI's Impact on Search and Content (30:49 - 40:45)

• AI tools are changing content discovery; however, quality human writing remains essential.
• AI should be used for research and synthesis, not as the primary content creator.

🔄 Digital Transformation in Communications (40:45 - 49:38)

• Communications teams often lag in digital transformation compared to marketing teams.
• Understanding audience information-seeking behavior is vital for effective positioning.

📊 Social Media Limitations and Strategy (49:38 - 57:47)

• Social platforms limit organic reach to promote paid content; companies should focus on building lasting assets.
• Short-term viral content lacks long-term value without a comprehensive strategy.

🏆 Building Confidence and Effective Strategy (57:47 - 01:05:49)

• Context is crucial for building confidence in business actions; digital insights help bridge strategy gaps.
• A comprehensive perspective is necessary for strong competitive positioning

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro: Fractured media and audience landscape

5:16 Rob's journey in corporate brand research

11:45 Search engines dominate brand information sources

18:04 Distinctive discoverability in digital content

24:10 AI as a key audience for content

30:48 Context and action build confidence in brands

37:21 Quality content rises above AI-generated noise

44:08 Data-driven thought leadership adds novelty

50:58 Balancing social media and owned content strategy

58:04 Formula for building confidence in business

1:00:37 Digital strategy fills the middle metrics gap

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

If change is inevitable, why are we typically so bad at managing it? As businesses navigate digital shifts, mergers, and AI advancements, one crucial group often gets sidelined: employees. Communicators can play a much larger role in managing these key stakeholders during organizational upheaval - and strategically guide organizations through any transition.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle welcomes change communications veteran and communications audit expert Lynn Zimmerman, CEO and chief strategist of Swing Communication, to dissect change communications in today's dynamic business world. With a career spanning over 25 years, Lynn has been instrumental in over 40 acquisitions and integrations, ensuring that employees remain at the heart of transformation. In her conversation with Dan, she delivers insights into conducting effective communication audits, the significance of employee-focused strategies during transformative periods, and the impact of AI on internal communications.

Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the differences between internal and change communications, learn strategies for conducting thorough communication audits, and discover how AI can enhance change communications efforts. The discussion also highlights the evolving role of communicators in steering organizational change and offers techniques for engaging employees as vital stakeholders during transitions.

Whether you're a communications professional, business leader, or simply curious about organizational change dynamics, this episode is packed with actionable insights. Lynn's expertise, combined with Dan's probing questions, creates a compelling conversation on navigating corporate transformation while keeping employees informed, engaged, and aligned.

Listen in and hear about... 

• Understanding the distinct roles of change communicators and change managers.
• The importance of communicators being part of the core project team.
• How AI tools enhance the communication audit process.
• Conducting communication audits to uncover organizational practices.
• Strategies for smaller organizations to implement "pulse audits."
• Aligning company values with leadership actions for change readiness.
• Why change should have a defined start, middle, and end.

Notable Quotes

On the Role of Communicators in Change:

"I've always said that one of our superpowers as communicators is that curiosity, the inquisitiveness and the kind of relentless interrogation that we bring to certain projects, hopefully in a good way, where we ask the questions that nobody thinks of or that other people think might be, oh, I don't want to ask a stupid question." - Dan Nestle [12:21 - 12:52]

On the Evolution of Change Communication:

"I think the recognition that change is important is a big step. And so it's evolving. I worked on a project and this was this corporate acquisition, the first time I was involved in change. And I was working with these project managers who weren't familiar. You know, this was a new process." - Lynn Zimmerman [29:57 → 30:15]

On the Importance of Employee Communication:

"It's also what a communicator needs to do, which is to speak to your audience in the manner in which they. They prefer to be spoken to. And if you're speaking their language from the get go, you will absolutely have much more success with your message." - Dan Nestle [32:13 - 32:53]

The Power of Communication Audits:

"I know I have one client that we did an audit a couple years ago and she still carries around the report in her, her work bag because it has so much information that helps her think about how to better communicate with, with her employees." - Lynn Zimmerman [38:29 → 38:46]

On the Importance of Values in Change Management:

"If you only pull your values out when you're going through a major change, then it's going to confuse people. Or if you throw away your values when you announce a major change, they're going to see that as well and they're not going to believe you." - Lynn Zimmerman [1:01:44 → 1:01:57]

The Future of Change Communication:

"I think change needs to change. And because change is not going away, and I don't really like the whole change is constant, you know, that's. That's not how change works. Change needs to have a start, middle and end, or else you're just creating chaos within your organization and uncertainty." - Lynn Zimmerman [59:28 → 59:47]

On the Role of Internal Communications in Change:

"Internal comms has a really big role in change, is making sure that those, that those company values are lived and that they're understood and that people know the vision of the company, what we're trying to accomplish." - Lynn Zimmerman [1:02:05 → 1:02:17]

The Challenge for Internal Communications Teams:

"In the defense of internal, calm comms folks, it's, they're busy. These people are way too busy. And you know, it's a absolutely. Traditionally underfunded, we're understaffed. And so even adding some of those things are hard. But if you can make the time to do those things, it will help you create a stronger case for doing something new." - Lynn Zimmerman [1:08:46 → 1:09:10]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Lynn Zimmerman

• Swing Communication | Website
• Communication Audit Toolkit - Demystifying Communication Audits
• Lynn Zimmerman | LinkedIn

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎤 Transformation in Communication (00:13 - 01:35)

• Transformation is a constant theme in business and communications, affecting how organizations operate.
• Employees are often overlooked in discussions about transformation, despite being critical to its success.

👥 Role of Internal Communicators (01:42 - 10:58)

• Lynn Zimmerman emphasizes the importance of internal communicators in guiding employees through change.
• Internal communicators should be part of core project teams during change initiatives to ensure effective messaging and stakeholder engagement.
• Communicators must understand the organization and its employees to tailor messages appropriately.

🔄 Change Communication vs. Internal Communication (11:01 - 19:07)

• Change communication has a defined start and end, unlike ongoing internal communication.
• Internal communicators need to adapt their mindset to focus on the unique challenges of change initiatives.
• Successful change communication requires a unified message that addresses the needs of different stakeholder groups.

📊 Importance of Communication Audits (35:07 - 44:14)

• Conducting communication audits helps organizations understand their current state and identify gaps in communication practices.
• Audits involve interviews, focus groups, and surveys to gather insights from employees and leaders.
• The audit results provide actionable recommendations for improving communication strategies and practices.

🛠️ Toolkit for Small Organizations (44:30 - 51:50)

• Lynn suggests that small organizations can conduct their own pulse audits to assess communication effectiveness.
• Creating a set of standardized questions for leaders and employees helps track trends over time.
• Visual mapping of communication channels can reveal gaps and areas for improvement.

🤖 AI's Role in Communication (51:57 - 59:21)

• AI can enhance the communication audit process by identifying themes and extracting valuable insights from conversations.
• AI serves as a second brain, helping communicators to analyze data and improve stakeholder engagement strategies.
• The future of communication will increasingly involve leveraging AI to navigate change effectively.

🌟 Final Thoughts on Change Management (59:28 - 1:03:14)

• Change needs to be managed with a clear start, middle, and end to avoid chaos within organizations.
• Internal communicators should advocate for consistent messaging and alignment with company values during times of change.
• Preparing employees for change is essential for fostering a positive organizational culture and ensuring successful transformations.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro: Transformation in business and communications

5:22 Lynn's journey into change communications

12:21 The critical role of communicators in change

18:57 Defining change communication as a discipline

25:08 Handling negative feedback during change

34:54 Using AI to enhance communication audits

46:56 The future of change management with AI

59:31 Creating a culture prepared for change

1:04:30 Communication strategies for smaller companies

1:08:46 The importance of self-awareness in comms

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

As AI disrupts and reshapes our interactions with brands and people alike, how do we genuinely connect with the voices around us? Conversational AI challenges us to rethink engagement with both technology and each other. What does it mean for brands to have a voice, and how can this change redefine connection and accessibility?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with the dynamic duo behind Pragmatic Digital, a strategic marketing agency at the forefront of leveraging cutting-edge technology for tangible business results. Susan and Scot Westwater, authors of Voice Marketing: Harnessing the Power of Conversational AI to Drive Customer Engagement, share their journey from traditional marketing to becoming trailblazers in the world of voice and conversational AI.

This episode offers a comprehensive look at the conversational AI ecosystem, from voice assistants like Alexa and Google Assistant to the integration of voice capabilities in mobile apps and customer service platforms. The Westwaters provide invaluable insights on how businesses can harness these technologies to enhance brand experiences, streamline operations, and create more meaningful customer interactions.

They educate Dan on some of the finer points of conversational AI and discuss its impact on marketing and communications, offering strategies for implementing voice technology in various business contexts. The conversation highlights the importance of intentional design in creating effective voice experiences, balancing automation with human oversight in AI-driven customer interactions, and the future of agentic AI and its potential applications in business.

Whether you're a seasoned marketer, a communications professional, or a business owner looking to stay ahead of the curve, this episode provides actionable advice on integrating conversational AI into your strategy. Susan and Scot's expertise demystifies complex concepts, making them accessible and applicable to businesses of all sizes.

Don't miss this opportunity to learn from two of the industry's leading voices on how to leverage conversational AI to drive customer engagement and propel your business forward in the digital age.

Listen in and hear about... 

• Embracing conversational AI as a powerful tool for customer engagement
• How voice technology democratizes information access and distribution
• Crafting brand personalities for AI-driven interactions with customers
• Balancing human oversight with AI automation in business processes
• Leveraging voice assistants and chatbots across multiple communication channels
• Practical steps for integrating AI into existing marketing and PR strategies
• The future of agentic AI and its potential impact on business operations

Notable Quotes

On the Power of Voice in Communication:

"Spoken word suddenly became this way of being able to transfer information in a much more democratic method. You didn't have to be able to read. There were opportunities to put things in language. It was starting to get back to the roots again of how information was kind of pulling down some of the gatekeeping." - Susan Westwater [08:04 → 08:35]

On the Evolution of Brand Personality:

"These were all really interesting, rich experiences that come into play, which is what really geeked me out. Now, Scott was a lot. I would say I was more of the heart and emotion of the possible. I would say Scott was much more of the rational nut to put to." - Susan Westwater [08:35 → 08:51]

On the Accessibility of Conversational AI:

"It reduces friction. It removes literacy out of the equation. You don't have to know how to use a computer. Literally, as long as you can ask a question, you can get some sort of response." - Scot Westwater [10:08 → 10:21]

On the Versatility of Conversational AI:

"Chatbots are part of conversational, voice assistants are part of it. Voice Mode and ChatGPT, they're all different flavors of it. You're physically using your voice to ask a question and getting some sort of response from a system." - Scot Westwater [10:34 → 10:49]

On the Importance of Intentionality in AI Voice:

"We have to be intentional then, by the way, about who it is we want our audiences to speak with. And that can work from a B2B perspective just as much as it can work from an external customer engagement perspective." - Susan Westwater [17:02 → 17:17]

On the Practicality of AI in Business:

"In practical business you probably don't, you probably don't need AGI, quite frankly. A lot of what we're talking about is automating basic business processes, whether you're using AI or other tools." - Scot Westwater [1:01:22 → 1:01:37]

On Getting Started with AI:

"Do what you did and just get started now, whether it's learning or experimenting or use case identification, like, just start. There is so much fear out there. There's so much, quite frankly, misinformation related to AI and it's just a matter of getting in there, getting comfortable, getting those quick wins, seeing how it can actually help your process." - Scot Westwater [1:05:28 → 1:05:52]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Susan and Scot Westwater

• Susan Westwater | LinkedIn
• Scot Westwater | Linkedin
• Pragmatic Digital | Website
• Voice Marketing: Harnessing the Power of Conversational AI to Drive Customer Engagement | Amazon

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎙️ Introduction to Conversational AI (00:00 - 01:10)

• Daniel Nestle expresses his journey towards embracing conversational AI and voice technology.
• Daniel acknowledges his initial reluctance to adopt video and voice chat despite being involved in AI.

🤝 Guest Introduction: Susan and Scot Westwater (01:10 - 02:17)

• Daniel introduces Susan and Scot Westwater, co-founders of Pragmatic Digital, highlighting their expertise in making AI accessible for businesses.
• They are recognized for their contributions to voice marketing and conversational AI.

🌐 Background of Susan Westwater (02:17 - 07:40)

• Susan shares her career journey from traditional marketing to digital and voice technology.
• Emphasizes the importance of voice as a democratic tool for information transfer, recalling historical shifts in communication.

🔍 Background of Scot Westwater (07:40 - 10:12)

• Scot discusses his background in visual design and user experience, focusing on the rise of voice assistants like Alexa and Google Assistant.
• Highlights the accessibility of voice technology, reducing barriers for users.

📊 Understanding the Conversational AI Ecosystem (10:12 - 13:00)

• Scot outlines the major players in conversational AI, including Amazon Alexa, Google Assistant, and Siri.
• Discusses the potential of voice-enabling mobile apps to enhance user experience.

📈 Applications of Conversational AI (13:00 - 17:00)

• Susan explains the concept of voice as part of brand experience, enhancing customer engagement.
• Discusses the importance of intentionality in voice interactions to create meaningful customer experiences.

🔧 Challenges in Voice Interaction Design (17:00 - 20:00)

• Daniel raises concerns about assigning personality to voice bots and the complexities involved.
• Scot emphasizes the need for careful consideration of voice attributes to align with brand identity.

🛠️ Integrating AI with Business Processes (20:00 - 27:00)

• Discussion on how conversational AI can streamline business processes, including customer service and sales.
• Scot highlights the importance of guardrails in AI interactions to maintain brand integrity.

🔍 Ethics and Management of Conversational AI (27:00 - 34:00)

• Daniel questions the ethical implications of using AI in customer interactions.
• Susan stresses the importance of human oversight in AI systems to manage sensitive interactions.

💡 Leveraging Conversational AI for Brand Reputation (34:00 - 39:00)

• Susan discusses how conversational AI can help manage brand reputation during crises.
• Highlights the need for consistent messaging across all channels to maintain brand integrity.

🚀 Future of Conversational AI and Agentic AI (39:00 - 42:00)

• Scot introduces the concept of agentic AI, which can perform tasks autonomously.
• Emphasizes the importance of starting small and iterating on AI implementations.

📈 Practical Steps for Businesses (42:00 - 48:00)

• Susan encourages businesses to experiment with AI and not be paralyzed by fear or misinformation.
• Scot advocates for identifying quick wins to build confidence in using AI technologies.

🔄 The Role of Education in AI Adoption (48:00 - 54:00)

• Susan highlights the ongoing need for education on AI and its applications in business.
• Stresses the importance of integrating AI into existing processes rather than treating it as a separate entity.

🔑 Final Thoughts and Call to Action (54:00 - 59:00)

• Scot urges listeners to get started with AI experimentation to see tangible benefits.
• Susan advises against fear-driven competition, encouraging a focus on collaboration and learning.

📚 Closing Remarks and Resources (59:00 - 01:09:20)

• Daniel thanks Susan and Scot for their insights and encourages listeners to check out their work at Pragmatic Digital.
• Promotes their book, "Voice Marketing," as a resource for understanding conversational AI.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro: Embracing new technologies and AI

5:00 Susan's journey from traditional marketing to AI

10:55 Scott's background in visual design and UX

18:16 Challenges of assigning personality to AI bots

25:49 Using conversational AI for customer service

31:32 Potential of AI for brand reputation management

37:15 The evolving ecosystem of conversational AI

43:46 Improving customer service with AI assistants

50:56 Speaking ideas into existence with voice AI

58:55 The need for human oversight with AI agents

1:05:28 Advice for getting started with AI in business

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

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