The Trending Communicator

The future of communications is fractured, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. How can leaders navigate this new landscape where audiences are scattered, AI is advancing rapidly, and traditional playbooks no longer work?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with Jim O'Leary, CEO of The Weber Shandwick Collective, North America. With a career spanning both client and agency leadership roles, Jim brings a wealth of experience in helping brands and individuals tackle complex challenges at the intersection of business, society, culture, and policy.

Jim and Dan dive into the evolution of communications and its place in the future of business. They discuss the changing media landscape, the impact of AI on the industry, and the need for innovative approaches in leadership and business strategy. Jim shares insights from his extensive career, including his time at Edelman and his current role at Weber Shandwick, offering valuable perspectives on how communications professionals can thrive in this new era.

During the conversation, Jim and Dan tackle the challenges of reaching target demographics in a world where media audiences are increasingly fragmented. They examine how AI is reshaping communications strategies and workflows, emphasizing the necessity for creating opportunities and adapting to rapid industry changes. Together, they consider the future of job roles and skill sets in communications and marketing, highlighting the excitement and potential that await the profession.

Whether you're a seasoned communications professional or just starting your career, this episode offers invaluable insights into the future of the industry and how to position yourself for success in an increasingly complex and technologically driven world. Don't miss this opportunity to hear from one of the leading voices in communications as he shares his vision for the future of the profession.

Listen in and hear about...

• Our fracturing media landscape and its impact on audience reach
• Evolving communications skills in the age of AI and tech advancements
• Creating opportunities in a rapidly changing professional environment
• Balancing specialized expertise with multidimensional practitioner roles
• Excitement vs. fear: embracing the future of communications
• AI's role in enhancing crisis management and narrative tracking
• Adapting traditional PR strategies to meet modern client demands

Notable Quotes

On Creating Opportunities: "I always talk to people who are starting in their career and tell them the main thing is you just got to create your own opportunity." - Jim O'Leary [6:15 - 9:00]

On the Evolution of Communications Teams: "I'm introducing our team and it's like the difference between that and me introducing a team 10 years ago is that it's mind blowing." - Jim O'Leary [24:46 - 26:29]

On the Future of Media: "We believe in the media network effect, whether it's legacy media or meme accounts, and how it's, you know, shaping narrative in a way but much different than ever before." - Jim O'Leary [26:32 - 27:12]

On the Role of Technology in Communications: "I have an ecosystem of, you know, of research tools of analysis tools of creative. Creative tools for like, for like almost no money that give me, you know, the ability to create output that just a few years ago you would need six people at an agency." - Dan Nestle [30:30 - 30:41]

On the Power of AI: "I posed, I was at the table, I said how many people around here now go to either like Chat GPT or Perplexity or whatever first before Google?" - Jim O'Leary [31:48 - 33:25]

On the Future of the Profession: "Be in the excitement camp, right? Be in the excitement camp. Dan Nessel was in the excitement camp in the excitement camp." - Jim O'Leary [46:41 - 48:34]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Jim O'Leary

• Weber Shandwick | Website
• Jim O'Leary | LinkedIn

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎤 Fractured Media Landscape (00:13 - 01:15)

• Mass media is losing audience share to independent creators and platforms, complicating outreach efforts.
• Organizations continue to use outdated communication strategies despite evolving audience dynamics.

🌍 Need for Innovative Approaches (01:15 - 02:14)

• The current environment requires innovative communication and leadership strategies due to challenges like AI advancements, workforce distribution, and generational differences.
• Jim O'Leary, CEO of Weber Shandwick, is recognized for his ability to navigate these complexities.

📈 Jim O'Leary's Career Insights (06:08 - 09:00)

• O'Leary emphasizes the importance of creating opportunities throughout his career rather than relying on pivotal moments.
• His extensive experience spans various roles, including his time at Edelman and now as CEO at Weber Shandwick.

💡 Leadership and Positivity (11:04 - 12:10)

• O'Leary's consistent positive approach to challenges is highlighted as a key leadership trait.
• Maintaining a solutions-oriented mindset is crucial for effective leadership, especially in high-pressure environments.

🔍 Challenges for CEOs and CCOs (12:52 - 14:42)

• The role of CEOs is increasingly difficult, with a rising CEO turnover rate.
• Chief Communications Officers (CCOs) face heightened expectations and pressures, making their roles more critical than ever.

🚀 Future of Communications (20:24 - 22:04)

• The conversation shifts to the exciting potential of AI and technology in enhancing communication strategies.
• O'Leary encourages professionals to embrace the excitement of evolving tools rather than fear them.

🔗 Multidimensional Skill Sets (35:12 - 39:14)

• The need for multidimensional practitioners who can adapt and utilize various skills is emphasized.
• While specialists are important, generalists must also be able to leverage technology and tools to enhance their capabilities.

🛠️ The Role of AI in Crisis Management (45:12 - 46:24)

• AI is increasingly used to identify and manage crises proactively, enhancing the ability to navigate complex narratives.
• O'Leary stresses the importance of being prepared and adaptable in the face of rapid technological changes.

🌟 Final Thoughts on the Future (46:25 - 49:34)

• O'Leary encourages professionals to choose the excitement camp regarding the future of communications, highlighting the potential for growth and innovation.
• He believes that the evolving landscape offers more opportunities than ever for practitioners in the field.

🌟 Final Thoughts on the Future (46:25 - 49:34

• O'Leary encourages professionals to choose the excitement camp regarding the future of communications, highlighting the potential for growth and innovation.
• He believes that the evolving landscape offers more opportunities than ever for practitioners in the field.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Introduction: Fractured media landscape and challenges

2:14 Jim O'Leary joins the conversation

5:46 Discussion on creating opportunities in one's career

12:09 Challenges for CEOs and communications officers

20:06 The future of communications and AI

24:46 Evolution of media relations and skills

30:41 Job descriptions and multidimensional practitioners

38:02 Balancing generalists and specialists in agencies

41:17 Speed and efficiency in modern communications work

45:43 Final advice: Embrace excitement in communications

49:10 Closing remarks and contact information

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is AI the superglue that can repair our fractured media universe? Or is it just another tool that could further splinter our audiences?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with digital marketing expert, leading AI researcher, and prolific LinkedIn Learning course creator Martin Waxman. A professor at McMaster University, associate director of the Future of Marketing Institute, and member of the Institute for Public Relations Digital Media Center, Martin has been leading the AI charge for the Communications profession through his Digital Marketing Trends newsletter and the LinkedIn Live DM Show (with recent TTC guest, Deirdre Breakenridge).  In other words, he's just the guy Dan needs to speak with to unpack the complexities of generative AI in the world of marketing and PR.

This episode tackles the pressing questions facing communicators in 2025: How can we effectively use AI to reach fragmented audiences? What are the risks of over-relying on AI for content creation? And how can we maintain our creativity and critical thinking skills in an AI-driven world?

Dan and Martin discuss the parallels between the early days of social media adoption and the current AI revolution, highlighting the importance of developing AI policies and guidelines within organizations. They also address the fear of becoming obsolete (FOBO) that many professionals are experiencing in the face of rapid technological change.

The conversation takes a practical turn as Martin shares his favorite AI tools for various tasks, from content generation to image creation. Listeners will gain insights into how to integrate these tools into their workflow without sacrificing creativity or quality.

Whether you're an AI enthusiast or a skeptic, this episode offers a balanced perspective on the role of generative AI in shaping the future of communications. Martin's call to action for professionals to be proactive, entrepreneurial, and initiative-taking with AI tools serves as a rallying cry for the industry.

Don't miss this thought-provoking discussion that will challenge you to rethink your approach to AI in communications and marketing. Tune in to discover how you can harness the power of AI while maintaining the human touch that sets great communicators apart.

Listen in and hear about...

• Navigating the fractured landscape of modern communications
• AI's potential to revolutionize content creation and distribution
• Balancing efficiency gains with maintaining creative integrity
• Strategies for avoiding "AI slop" and enhancing originality
• Essential AI tools for marketers and communicators in 2025
• Cultivating critical thinking skills in the age of generative AI
• Future trends in AI-driven marketing and public relations

Notable Quotes

On the Fractured Landscape:

"Sometimes I think the word of the year for 2024 should be fractured. As in the fractured. Fill in the blank landscape, the fractured media landscape, the social media landscape, the fractured political landscape, the fractured audience landscape." - Dan Nestle [00:00 - 00:17]

AI's Role in Communication:

"Instead of writing 15 versions of an article for 15 channels, we can write and easily use AI to repurpose it 15 ways." - Dan Nestle [00:45 - 00:52]

On AI Adoption:

"It feels like to me, with all the announcements that were packed into the last two weeks of December, plus all the hype we've heard for the entire year, it just. It reminds me of a Jenga game that the tech companies. Or Jenga game. How about that? The tech companies are playing with each, and they keep going higher and higher and higher as it gets a little bit shakier." - Martin Waxman [08:24 - 08:46]

Fear of Becoming Obsolete:

"There's actually a term for this. It's called FOBO, the fear of becoming obsolete. And it's really real. There's been studies around this." - Martin Waxman [09:18 - 09:25]

On AI Slop:

"I just want next year to be the year where we get rid of AI slop. And there's certain words I never want to see again. I never want to see the word leverage anymore. Unless you're talking about actually, you know, using something or moving something with a lever." - Martin Waxman [44:36 - 44:50]

The Learning Curve with AI:

"We have to factor in and. And you touched on this. The learning curve that we have, learning how to talk to machines. Yeah, we can talk to people, but we need to learn how to talk to machines better." - Martin Waxman [43:54 - 44:05]

On Being Proactive with AI:

"We are all newbies, we're all neophytes in this. I mean, it may feel like it's been around forever. It hasn't. So we all have an opportunity to figure out how the tools work, how we can use them more effectively. But we need to be proactive, we need to be entrepreneurial, and we need to take some initiative with them" - Martin Waxman [1:03:57 - 1:04:18]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Martin Waxman

• Martin Waxman Communications | Website
• Martin Waxman | LinkedIn
• Digital Marketing Trends | LinkedIn Newsletter
• Generative AI for Digital Marketers | LinkedIn Learning Course

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎯 Fractured Landscapes (00:13 - 06:03)

• Fractured is proposed as the word of the year for 2024, reflecting the splintered media, social, political, and audience landscapes.
• The increasing complexity in communications and marketing due to more channels and influencers is highlighted.
• AI is suggested as a potential solution to manage content across various platforms efficiently.

📈 The Role of AI in Communications (06:04 - 14:40)

• AI's impact on content creation, publication, and distribution is emphasized, with a focus on mastering generative AI.
• Martin Waxman discusses the current state of generative AI, noting that many companies are still in the early stages of adoption.
• The concept of Fobo (fear of becoming obsolete) is introduced, highlighting the anxiety among professionals regarding rapid technological changes.

🔍 Adoption Challenges and Opportunities (14:41 - 22:25)

• The conversation touches on the slow adoption of AI tools by the majority, likening it to the early days of electric vehicles.
• There's a need for organizations to implement policies and training for employees to effectively use AI tools.
• The importance of communication between leadership and employees regarding AI's impact on jobs is stressed.

🛠️ Critical Thinking and Creativity in AI Use (22:26 - 37:31)

• Critical thinking is essential for effectively utilizing AI tools; reliance on AI for first drafts is discouraged.
• Students are encouraged to use AI as a creative partner rather than a crutch, avoiding "AI slop" in content.
• The need for originality and uniqueness in content creation is emphasized, with a call to avoid publishing mediocre outputs.

📊 Tools and Resources for AI in Marketing (37:32 - 54:17)

• Martin shares his favorite AI tools, including ChatGPT, Claude, and Notebook LM, for various tasks.
• He highlights the importance of iterative prompting to refine AI outputs and improve content quality.
• The potential of AI tools to enhance creativity and streamline workflows is discussed, urging professionals to explore these resources.

🌟 Future of Marketing and Learning (54:18 - 1:07:14)

• The Future of Marketing Institute is introduced as a valuable resource for staying updated on marketing trends and AI developments.
• Martin encourages professionals to be proactive in learning about AI and to seek out curated information sources.
• He concludes with a reminder that creativity remains a key asset in leveraging AI tools effectively in communications and marketing.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro

5:47 AI's impact on communication landscape

12:14 State of generative AI in 2024

18:35 Critical thinking and AI in education

25:27 AI as a tool for communicators

33:35 Essential AI tools for communicators

44:58 Balancing AI assistance with creativity

50:12 Ethical considerations in AI use

55:08 Recommended AI tools for different tasks

59:45 Future trends in AI technology

1:02:07 LinkedIn Learning courses on AI

1:03:57 Final thoughts on generative AI

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Is AI the savior or the destroyer of journalism? As media outlets grapple with dwindling trust and audiences, could artificial intelligence be the key to revitalizing the industry, or is it the final nail in its coffin?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with seasoned journalist turned AI consultant, educator, trainer, and founder of the popular Media Copilot newsletter, Pete Pachal. Together, they dissect the complex relationships between communications professionals and journalists as media becomes more fractured and AI's advance continues.

Pete shares his journey from engineering to journalism, recounting his experiences at influential digital media outlets like Mashable and Coindesk. As the conversation unfolds, Dan and Pete examine the current state of media, the challenges faced by both journalists and PR professionals and how AI is reshaping the entire landscape.

Pete offers invaluable insights on how newsrooms and PR teams can adapt to this new reality, emphasizing the importance of transparency, ethical frameworks, and maintaining the human touch in an increasingly automated world. He also shares his predictions for the future of media and communications, painting a picture of an industry that's both challenged and empowered by AI.

Whether you're a journalist, PR professional, or simply interested in the future of media, this episode provides a balanced and nuanced look at how AI is reshaping the way we create, consume, and distribute information. Don't miss this opportunity to gain a deeper understanding of the opportunities and pitfalls that lie ahead in the brave new world of AI-assisted communications.

Listen in and hear about...

• AI's transformative impact on media and journalism
• Challenges and opportunities for PR professionals in the AI era
• Evolving strategies for earning attention in a fragmented media landscape
• Ethical considerations of AI-generated content and transparency
• Innovative AI tools reshaping content creation and distribution
• The enduring value of human creativity and critical thinking in storytelling
• Balancing AI assistance with maintaining authentic voice and expertise

Notable Quotes

On the Evolution of Digital Media: "Mashable was trying to be kind of like the millennial version of CNN at some point. So really, you know, struck gold with its strategy, which very few people were doing at the time, in the late 2000s, early 2010s of going all in on social media." - Pete Pachal [07:47 → 08:09]

On AI's Impact on Journalism: "AI is affecting everything with regard to media at every layer, like the distribution, the production, just the story ideas even. And that idea of doing something quick and easy and employing whether it's interns or junior level people to just fire out those posts, that's a job for a robot now." - Pete Pachal [12:52 → 13:11]

On the Changing Media Landscape: "Media itself is on its own hero's journey and now they're going through these trials and tribulations and they need to pass through them to get to the other side where they will be welcomed with open arms and redeemed if they follow the cycle." - Dan Nestle [13:53 → 14:11]

On the Role of AI in Journalism: "The quick, the quick application, I guess a statement I would say about applying AI to journalism is it's like super easy to abuse and harder to use." - Pete Pachal [16:42 → 17:07]

On the Future of AI-Generated Content: "I don't know a single journalist now who doesn't at least use perplexity or something like it every now and then, at least. Right. And there's other ways to improve that. Chief among them is essentially using AI with your own data, whether it's your stories or in the case of say, a legal reporter, using it on all these sort of legal documents around a case, which is a relatively easy thing to set up." - Pete Pachal [17:28 → 17:54]

On the Future of AI in Media: "I think there's actually a better reason to do this kind of thing. And I think that the reason other orgs may want to start doing this for basically stories they don't have people for but are still relevant to their beat or their area of expertise is to make sure their corpus of content includes those stories." - Pete Pachal [22:32 → 22:50]

On the Importance of Human Touch in Writing: "Writing is thinking. And he's right. The act of writing is not separable from the storytelling phase of it. And I think every writer knows this. As you're writing a story and you're, you know, you're figuring out transitions and things, you're like, oh, right, I should say this or I should say that." - Pete Pachal [46:28 → 46:48]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Pete Pachal

• Pete Pachal | LinkedIn
• The Media Copilot Website
• The Media Copilot | Substack
• AI for PR & Media Professionals - Course
• Pull to Open | Pete's Dr. Who Podcast

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🍽️ Media and AI Relationship (00:00 - 01:27)

Daniel Nestle discusses the strained relationship between communications professionals and the media, comparing it to a marital struggle over dinner choices.

Trust in media is at an all-time low, with audiences feeling bored by dull content and seeking news elsewhere.

🤖 AI's Role in Media Transformation (01:27 - 03:28)

• Daniel emphasizes that the answers to improving media can be found in the proliferation of AI.
• Pete Pachal, a journalist and AI thought leader, is introduced as a guest who will share insights on AI's impact on the media industry.

🛤️ Pete Pachal's Career Journey (03:28 - 06:38)

• Pete shares his background in engineering and journalism, highlighting his roles at Mashable and Coindesk.
• He discusses his fascination with AI and how he developed AI strategies at Coindesk, recognizing its potential to change media.

📉 Challenges Facing Digital Media (06:38 - 10:05)

• Both Daniel and Pete reflect on the rise and fall of digital media brands like Mashable and BuzzFeed, noting their initial success in social media.
• Old media brands have adapted, hiring talent from digital startups to regain relevance.

🔄 AI's Impact on Content Creation (10:05 - 13:49)

• Pete discusses how AI can automate low-value content creation, allowing journalists to focus on more meaningful storytelling.
• The decline of quick-hit articles is seen as a positive shift towards quality journalism.

📊 AI in Journalism Processes (13:49 - 19:07)

• Pete outlines how AI can assist in the journalism pipeline, particularly in brainstorming, research, and distribution.
• AI tools can enhance efficiency by taking over repetitive tasks, allowing journalists to concentrate on storytelling.

📝 Writing and AI Integration (19:07 - 23:28)

• The conversation shifts to the role of AI in writing, with Pete suggesting that AI should assist rather than replace human writers.
• AI-generated content must be checked for accuracy and should not replace the unique insights that human journalists provide.

🔍 Future of Journalism and AI (23:28 - 30:17)

• Pete predicts that AI will play a role in generating basic articles for niche topics, allowing media outlets to cover more ground.
• Transparency about AI-generated content is crucial for maintaining audience trust.

💡 Emerging AI Tools for PR and Media (30:17 - 34:09)

• Daniel and Pete discuss the need for PR teams to adapt to AI tools that can streamline pitching and research.
• Broader audience engagement is emphasized over traditional media hits.

📈 Recommended AI Tools (34:09 - 39:34)

• Pete suggests using tools like NotebookLM, Mind Studio, and LVX for enhancing content creation and analysis.
• These tools can automate tasks and improve efficiency in PR and journalism.

🔗 Ethics and Transparency in AI Usage (39:34 - 42:00)

• The importance of being transparent about AI-generated content is reiterated.
• Ethical considerations in using AI for content creation are essential for maintaining credibility.

🗣️ Final Thoughts on AI and Human Creativity (42:00 - 49:51)

• Daniel and Pete conclude that while AI can assist in content creation, the human element remains irreplaceable.
• Good writing and critical thinking skills will continue to be valuable in the evolving media landscape.

📅 Looking Ahead: The Future of PR and Media (49:51 - 54:12)

• The discussion shifts to the future of PR and media careers amid AI advancements.
• Career paths in PR will evolve, requiring new skills and adaptability to new technologies.

🎤 Closing Remarks and Resources (54:12 - 57:00)

• Daniel thanks Pete for the insightful conversation and encourages listeners to explore his work at Media Copilot and the Pull to Open podcast.
• Listeners are invited to connect with Pete for further insights and discussions on AI in media.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro

3:42 Tech Journalism Journey

7:47 Mashable's Strategy and Evolution

11:06 Evolution of Media Brands and AI's Impact

18:38 AI in Journalism: Content Creation and Distribution

20:44 AI in Newsrooms: Use and Strategy

24:44 AI and Content Strategy

28:26 Licensing Deals and AI Impact

31:56 Content Strategy and AI Recognition

36:46 Licensing and AI Content Use

41:12 Writing and AI in Journalism

45:08 AI in Journalism: News Reporting and Writing

48:47 Talented Writers and AI Integration

51:59 Future of Newsrooms

56:28 Broader Audience Engagement

1:00:23 AI Tools in PR

1:04:11 Ethics and Transparency in AI Content

1:09:19 AI's Role in Content Creation

1:13:32 AI Tools for Content Creation

1:16:25 Media Coverage Tools

1:20:24 Discussion on LVEX, MindStudio, and Notebook LM

1:25:13 Social Media Presence and Doctor Who Podcast

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Over the last few years, at least since 2020, in the marketing and communications professions, remote work has become more of the norm than the exception. Connections between and among co-workers remain predominantly digital or virtual, and so many of us fitted out our home offices with comfy ergonomic chairs, standing desks, recording gear, balance boards, and all kinds of tchotchkes. Then, when the economy started to turn, and our jobs started to disappear, we figured, well, we've got the home setup, we've got the years of remote work experience, so starting our own "thing" wouldn't be so scary. But as it turns out, being alone can get pretty lonely. We benefit tremendously from interacting with peers and feeling like someone's got our back. We want people we can reach out to for information, mentorship, and support. It sounds like we want - and maybe need - community. Is community the future of work?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with strategic communications and PR consultant-turned-entrepreneur Ashley Dennison, the founder and CEO of CommsConsultants.com, to discuss the changing landscape of communications consulting and the power of community in the age of AI.

Join Dan and Ashley as they navigate the world of independent communications consulting, examining the challenges and opportunities that come with this career path. From the loneliness of solo entrepreneurship to the strength found in professional communities, this episode offers a candid look at the realities of modern consulting work.

Ashley shares her journey in creating CommsConsultants.com, a global directory of pre-vetted communications and marketing consultants. The conversation touches on the importance of specialization, admitting what you don't know, and the critical role of building relationships in the consulting world.

The episode dives into the impact of AI on the communications industry, discussing the scramble to understand and adopt new technologies. Ashley and Dan examine the readiness of consultants to meet future challenges and the need for continuous learning in a rapidly changing field.

A key focus of the discussion is the ongoing struggle to position strategic communications as a business imperative. Ashley offers a thought-provoking call to action for communications professionals to unite and demonstrate their value to C-suite executives.

Whether you're a seasoned consultant or considering the leap into independent work, this episode provides valuable insights into the future of communications consulting. Don't miss this engaging conversation about community, technology, and the evolving nature of strategic communications.

Listen in and hear about...

• Community as the future of work for communications consultants
• Challenges and opportunities in the evolving landscape of independent consulting
• The power of authenticity and imperfection in professional communication
• Balancing AI adoption with core communication skills in the consulting world
• Strategies for positioning oneself as a valuable resource in a competitive market
• The ongoing struggle to establish strategic communications as a business imperative
• Adapting to change and embracing curiosity in the face of technological advancements

On the Value of Consultants:

"How could you possibly ever be short of client volume when there are so many opportunities out there?" - Ashley Dennison [04:14 → 04:21]

On Networking and Karma:

"I totally do that. And I am always 100% sure that at some point in the future, right, there will be a... I'm not gonna say a reward, right. But I will say that there will, there will be a, A karmic sense of goodness happening from that." - Dan Nestle [53:09 → 53:27]

The Importance of Specialization:

"If you want to commit to your path of specialty, where you truly are an expert, you have to at the same time be willing to say, and all of these other areas are not my expertise, but I know people who can do those things for you. Let me connect you." - Ashley Dennison [56:38 → 56:51]

On the Future of Communications:

"Until we come forward with a solution to that problem and we all stand behind it, I think that our, our profession and our value and our voice is going to shrink and shrink and shrink. Not to end on a sad note, but that's the call to action I would like to leave people with." - Ashley Dennison [1:11:09 → 1:11:33]

The Indispensability of Communications Consultants:

"The necessity, the indispensability of advisors, of trusted advisors who are courageous and who are able to put it, put connect dots, put everything together and convey, nay, communicate the ideas that will move and propel a business forward are absolutely golden for the future." - Dan Nestle [1:11:33 → 1:11:55]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Ashley Dennison

• Ashley Dennison | LinkedIn
• CommsConsultants Website

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎤 Community and Collaboration (00:14 - 02:22)

• Daniel Nestle expresses excitement about his new journey in consulting and the importance of community among consultants.
• Ashley Dennison's role as the founder of commsconsultants.com is highlighted, emphasizing the platform's focus on connecting clients with vetted communications professionals.

🤝 Networking and Support (02:30 - 08:25)

• Daniel shares his experience from a recent Zoom meeting with the comms consultants community, noting the eagerness to share advice and support.
• Ashley discusses the creation of the Comms Consulting Collective on LinkedIn, a networking group aimed at providing resources and support for consultants.

📊 Value of Choice in Consulting (08:26 - 12:57)

• Ashley emphasizes the importance of having choice over projects for consultants, advocating for autonomy in selecting clients and work.
• Daniel and Ashley discuss the misconception of competition among consultants, stressing the abundance of opportunities in the market.

🔍 Disruption of Traditional Models (12:58 - 20:41)

• Ashley critiques the traditional recruitment model, highlighting how commsconsultants.com differs by not taking a cut of consultant fees.
• Daniel reflects on his past experiences in recruitment and the challenges of finding suitable freelance work.

🌐 AI and Future of Communications (20:42 - 30:37)

• Daniel raises concerns about the readiness of communications professionals to adapt to AI advancements.
• Ashley acknowledges a gap in AI literacy among consultants, emphasizing the need for curiosity and adaptability in the face of technological change.

💡 Courage and Authenticity in Communication (30:38 - 39:10)

• Both Daniel and Ashley discuss the importance of being authentic and courageous in communications, especially in a landscape filled with polished content.
• They agree that realness and rawness resonate more with audiences than overly curated messages.

📈 Strategic Importance of Communications (39:11 - 45:05)

• Ashley stresses the need for communications to be recognized as a critical business function that directly impacts profitability.
• Daniel echoes this sentiment, citing the importance of measurement in demonstrating the value of communications efforts.

🔑 Call to Action for the Communications Community (45:06 - 55:10)

• Ashley challenges the communications community to reflect on why strategic communications have struggled to be seen as essential.
• She emphasizes the need for united action to elevate the profession and ensure its relevance in the evolving business landscape.

🌟 Future Outlook and Final Thoughts (55:11 - 1:10:14)

• Ashley expresses concern that without proactive measures, the communications profession may continue to shrink and be relegated to a reactive role.
• Daniel concludes by reinforcing the importance of trusted advisors in communications and the potential for growth in the consulting space.
• Both agree on the necessity of adaptability and collaboration for future success in the field. 

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro

2:32 CommsConsultants.com: A global directory of vetted communications consultants

8:25 The Comms Consulting Collective: Large LinkedIn networking group

15:50 AI adoption in communications: Consultants scrambling to understand and master

21:36 Imperfect content on LinkedIn: Driving more authentic engagement

29:36 Future of work and communications: Challenges faced by industry leaders

38:31 Strategic communications: Critical for business profitability and growth

45:07 AI in communications: Potential to prove value to executives

56:52 Specialization in consulting: Focusing on core expertise areas

1:05:45 Measurement in communications: Proving value to C-suite leaders

1:11:33 Call to action: Uniting to elevate the communications profession

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

NOTEBOOK LM HAS TAKEN CONTROL OF THE TRENDING COMMUNICATOR. EVERYTHING THAT FOLLOWS IS AI-GENERATED.

Are you ready to supercharge your communication skills for the AI-driven future? Discover how to harness the power of artificial intelligence while keeping your human touch in this eye-opening episode of The Trending Communicator.

In this captivating discussion, hosts Maichael AI and Laila AI take over the podcast to unpack the seismic shifts reshaping the world of communications. From the evolving nature of job descriptions to the rise of personal branding in an era of deepfakes, they cover the essential skills and strategies you need to thrive in this rapidly changing landscape.

Listen as our hosts break down the PESO model (Paid, Earned, Shared, and Owned media) and explain how AI is blurring the lines between these traditional categories. You'll gain insights into how artificial intelligence can enhance your storytelling abilities, help you tailor messages for different audiences, and even serve as a data-driven coach for your communication efforts.

But it's not all about technology. Maichael and Laila emphasize the critical importance of human skills like empathy, creativity, and ethical decision-making. They introduce the concept of "T-shaped" professionals - those who combine deep expertise in one area with a broad understanding of related fields - and explain why this versatility is crucial for success in modern communications teams.

Throughout the episode, you'll find practical advice on:

• Building a personal brand that stands out in the age of AI
• Leveraging artificial intelligence as a powerful tool without losing your human touch
• Developing "forensic listening" skills to cut through information overload
• Creating adaptable, collaborative, and data-driven teams
• Embracing lifelong learning to stay ahead of the curve

Whether you're a seasoned communications professional or just starting your career, this episode offers valuable insights into the future of the field. Don't miss this opportunity to prepare yourself for the exciting challenges and opportunities that lie ahead in the world of AI-enhanced communications.

Listen in and hear about...

• Shifting job descriptions in the evolving communication landscape
• Leveraging AI as a tool to enhance human creativity and efficiency
• Building a strong personal brand through authenticity and storytelling
• Embracing continuous learning to stay ahead in a rapidly changing field
• Honing forensic listening skills to navigate information overload
• Integrating the PESO model for a well-rounded communication strategy
• Developing "T-shaped" skills to thrive in future communication roles

Notable Quotes

On Job Descriptions: "It's less about checking boxes and more about being adaptable and always learning."

- LAILA AI [0:39 - 0:44]

On Personal Branding: "Start with authenticity. Be real. Share your story."

- LAILA AI [1:47 - 1:50]

On Community: "Like a network of advisors, cheerleaders."

- MAICHAEL AI [2:26 - 2:29]

On AI in Communication: "It definitely is, but it's not about robots taking over. It's about using AI to make us better, more efficient."

- LAILA AI [2:41 - 2:48]

On AI as a Tool: "So it's a tool we can use to our advantage."

- MAICHAEL AI [2:48 - 2:50]

 Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎙️ Future of Job Descriptions (00:14 - 01:32)

• Shift from traditional job descriptions to a focus on adaptability and continuous learning.
• Highlight problem-solving and results rather than just job titles.

🌟 Personal Branding in the Age of AI (01:34 - 02:36)

• Emphasize authenticity and sharing personal stories to build a strong personal brand.
• Focus on building relationships and adding value to the community.

🤖 AI as a Tool for Enhancement (02:38 - 03:42)

• AI will not replace human creativity but can enhance efficiency and effectiveness.
• Use AI for data analysis and tailoring messages to audiences.

📚 Continuous Learning and Forensic Listening (03:49 - 05:06)

• Embrace lifelong learning to stay relevant in the fast-changing communication landscape.
• Forensic listening is essential for understanding narratives and building trust.

⚖️ Ethics in Communication (05:09 - 05:28)

• With the rise of AI, it is crucial to use communication tools responsibly.
• Ensure communications are truthful and transparent, aligning with personal and organizational values.

📢 Navigating the Changing Media Landscape (06:02 - 07:16)

• Traditional media is losing influence; focus on diverse channels like podcasts and online communities.
• Introduce the PESO model (Paid, Earned, Shared, Owned media) for a comprehensive communication strategy.

📈 Integration of AI in Storytelling (07:58 - 08:47)

• AI can help analyze data for compelling storytelling but cannot replace the human touch.
• Adapt storytelling for different audiences to enhance engagement.

🤝 Building T-Shaped Teams (09:02 - 10:11)

• Teams need both deep expertise in specific areas and a broad understanding of other disciplines.
• Collaboration and adaptability are key to effective team dynamics.

🌍 Embracing Change and Experimentation (10:20 - 11:09)

• Encourage listeners to embrace the unknown and experiment with new ideas.
• Challenge oneself to learn and grow in the evolving communication landscape.

🔍 Responsible Use of AI (11:19 - 12:43)

• AI should be viewed as a tool to assist rather than replace human judgment.
• Fact-check AI-generated content to avoid misinformation and echo chambers.

🛠️ Importance of Personal Branding (12:58 - 13:22)

• Personal branding is crucial in a world where AI can create technically perfect content.
• Showcase authenticity and build relationships to stand out in the digital landscape.

🌈 Final Thoughts on the Future of Communications (13:28 - 13:43)

• Emphasize the importance of being bold, curious, and adaptable.
• The future of communications is shaped by those willing to evolve and innovate.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro

2:03 Adapting Job Descriptions

4:08 Building a Personal Brand

6:05 AI's Role in Communication

8:34 The PESO Model

11:05 T-Shaped Teams

13:01 Personal Branding in the AI Era

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

(Voices and podcast content are created by Google NotebookLM. Theme song courtesy of Suno. Episode graphic based on image from Flux AI. Notes co-created by Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Walk into any PR conference these days, and it's all but guaranteed that you'll see a session or two about how communicators can effect real business impact. Panelists and speakers talk about how we can earn a seat at the table (even though we often have one) and get taken more seriously as business partners by "aligning with the business strategy" and "bringing measurement discipline" to "demonstrate the ROI of Communications." But then you (some of you) go back to your office, and the very executives you're trying to partner with ask you to "make this sound better" or "add some positivity" or--even worse--"can you spin this?" Spin, the bane of PR and the root cause of so much distrust, still infects our profession. But if you're an ethical communicator with the right set of tools, you'll confidently stand firm when you decline to "spin" and instead communicate with integrity and transparency.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with agency CEO, prolific writer, in-demand speaker, and overall PR powerhouse Gini Dietrich. The author of Spin Sucks: Communication and Reputation Management in the Digital Age, founder of the Spin Sucks blog and community, and creator of the influential PESO Model, Gini has been a trailblazer in the communications profession and an advocate for transparent and ethical communication practices, and done more than most in steering the industry away from the damaging concept of "spin."

Dan and Gini discuss the critical role of the PESO Model in strategic communications, breaking down its components—Paid, Earned, Shared, and Owned media—and how they integrate to create measurable, impactful results. Gini shares her insights on the importance of building trust and authority in a post-truth world, where misinformation and disinformation are rampant.

They also dig into how AI will become even more central to the communications field. Gini reveals how AI tools are enhancing productivity, offering new ways to manage content creation, data analysis, and strategic planning. From leveraging AI for content development to using it as a virtual assistant, Gini provides practical examples of how technology is reshaping the way communicators work.

Whether you're a seasoned PR professional or new to the field, this episode offers valuable lessons on ethical communication, the significance of the PESO Model, and the integration of AI into modern PR practices. Tune in to learn how you can navigate the challenges of today's media environment and build a more authentic and trustworthy communication strategy.

Listen in and hear about...

• The damaging impact of "spin" on the PR industry's reputation and the push for ethical communications
• How the PESO Model integrates paid, earned, shared, and owned media for strategic communications
• How media relations is evolving (or devolving) in a world where traditional media trust is declining
• The importance of building owned content and community to maintain control over brand messaging
• AI's role in enhancing productivity and efficiency across all aspects of the PESO Modeal
• The shift towards earning attention rather than just media hits in today's fragmented media environment

On Navigating Post-Truth America: “It's funny you say that because I think we're in a world now where we live in what has been dubbed the post truth America, which sucks in and of itself. But as communicators, we have to kind of figure out how to navigate that. And part of that is you can't spin, you can't lie, you can't be unethical, you have to be extraordinarily transparent and authentic.” — Gini Dietrich [00:03:37 → 00:04:00]

On Misinformation: “It's interesting how there's been such a upswell in discussions of misinformation, disinformation, mal information, information, any of the informations. So much so that, you know, I firmly believe that even the term misinformation is a kind of misinformation.” — Dan Nestle [00:04:38 → 00:04:55]

On Crisis Communications: “But if there's an interpretation, then just, you know, there's gotta be some way. Look, label it as such. I know that's. That some people try. But, you know, sometimes what has been decried as misinformation is turned. Turns out to be totally true later. Or what is said to be true turns out to be, like, disinformation later. Like, it's just. It's just a mess. So we need to really be able to not only stand by what we say is misinformation or have rationale for it, but if it turns out that we were wrong, we have to come out and say we were wrong.” — Dan Nestle [00:05:55 → 00:06:31]

On the PESO Model: “It's not a list of tactics. You can't just pull tactics from each media type and call it the Peso model. It's really about an integrated model that's measurable and it's measurable to the things that executives care about.” — Gini Dietrich [00:09:00 → 00:09:15]

On Media Consumption: “Think about how you get your information. I mean, unless you're, unless you're 80 years old or older, you're not getting information or your news from TV anymore. You're just not.” — Gini Dietrich [00:25:29 → 00:25:44]

On the Evolution of Media Relations: “We do a lot of work with universities and through our, through our certification. And one of the things that I've noticed in the last five years is that when you talk to college students about media relations or earned media, the first place they go is not traditional media ever.” — Gini Dietrich [00:24:02 → 00:24:20]

On AI's Role in Content Creation: “AI is giving us time. It's giving us more time in our day. It's making us more productive. And so when we refresh the model in January, really, we Were only looking at AI from an owned media perspective. And I think that has massively changed this year.” — Gini Dietrich [00:42:44 → 00:43:00]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter/X

Gini Dietrich

• The PESO Model | Website
• Spin Sucks | Website
• Spin Sucks: Communication and Reputation Management in the Digital Age | Amazon.com
• Gini Dietrich | LinkedIn
• Gini Dietrich | Twitter/X

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎤 Introduction and Context of Spin in PR (00:00 - 01:00)

• Daniel Nestle introduces the topic of "spin" in public relations and its negative impact on the industry.
• Gini Dietrich is highlighted as a key figure working against the concept of spin through her work on ethical communications.

📚 Overview of the PESO Model (01:01 - 13:00)

• Gini Dietrich discusses the PESO model (Paid, Earned, Shared, Owned) as a framework for strategic communications.
• The model emphasizes the importance of integrating various media types for measurable results rather than treating them as separate tactics.
• Gini is currently working on a second edition of her book, which will further elaborate on the PESO model.

🔍 The Role of Earned Media and Misinformation (13:01 - 25:00)

• The discussion shifts to the decline of trust in media, particularly among younger audiences who prefer platforms like TikTok for news.
• Gini emphasizes the need for communicators to navigate misinformation and maintain authenticity in their messaging.
• The importance of earned media is reiterated, but with a focus on the evolving landscape of media consumption.

📈 AI's Impact on Communications (25:01 - 37:00)

• Gini discusses how AI tools are being integrated into the PESO model, enhancing efficiency and productivity in communications.
• The use of AI for tasks such as content creation, data analysis, and audience engagement is highlighted.
• Gini shares her personal experience using AI tools like Claude and Notebook LM to improve her writing process.

🔗 Specific AI Tools and Their Applications (37:01 - 49:00)

• Gini lists various AI tools beneficial for each aspect of the PESO model, including:
  • Notebook LM for content generation and FAQs.
  • Claude for drafting and editing.
  • WALDO for competitive analysis.
• The discussion includes the importance of testing and iterating content before broader distribution.

💡 Recommendations for Communicators (49:01 - 59:00)

• Gini advises communicators to experiment with AI tools to understand their value and capabilities.
• She emphasizes the importance of training AI tools to align with specific communication styles and preferences.
• The need to integrate AI into the PESO model continuously is stressed as the landscape evolves.

🔮 Future Considerations and Closing Thoughts (59:01 - 01:01:12)

• Gini reflects on the ongoing evolution of communications and the need to adapt strategies accordingly.
• She expresses interest in understanding media trust trends post-election and how they will impact future communications.
• The meeting concludes with a note of gratitude from Daniel Nestle for Gini's insights and contributions.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro

3:37 Navigating Post-Truth America

6:31 Misinformation and Disinformation Challenges

9:57 The Peso Model Explained

15:16 Balancing the Peso Model

21:37 Extending Media Relations

26:48 Changing Media Consumption

31:03 Podcasts as Earned Media

37:46 Renaissance of Owned Content

42:44 AI's Role in Communications

50:33 AI Tools and Applications

55:49 Embracing AI in Communications

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I think it's fair to say that most of us in communications and marketing, at one point or another (and probably recently), have been accused of the most awful, terrible thing: committing fluff. It can happen anytime, but usually when we talk about the mysterious arts of messaging, writing, brand identity, and almost anything creative. I think it's happened most often in my career when I've mentioned the most misunderstood five-letter word in our lexicon: story. I mean, I get it - when someone hears "story" they think about fairy tales, novels, movie plots, and so on. But a story is the Amazon Same-Day Delivery option for transmitting messages to another human being: it's efficient, fast, and dependable. It's about time for story - and the science of storytelling - to be permanently released from the fluff zone and given its due.

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, join host Dan Nestle as he welcomes former journalist, CCO, and now strategic communications advisor Anuneha Mewawalla, founder of Lexato Consulting and a leading expert in executive storytelling and AI integration. Anuneha shares her journey from a TV news anchor to a strategic communications leader, offering insights into the power of narrative in the corporate world. Together, they discuss why facts alone aren't enough to connect with audiences. All the elements we must communicate need to be delivered in a compelling, memorable way. That's why storytelling is increasingly important for executives, and why it's becoming a vital tool for leaders to connect with stakeholders and build trust.

Anuneha emphasizes the importance of authenticity and personal narratives in shaping a leader's brand. She shares compelling examples of how leaders can effectively invite stakeholders into their vision, fostering engagement and trust. The conversation also touches on the role of AI in enhancing storytelling through personalization, real-time adaptation, and content optimization.

Listeners will gain valuable insights into the future of executive storytelling, including the essential skills needed to thrive in a rapidly changing environment. From empathy and emotional intelligence to mastering AI tools and embracing multimodal storytelling, Anuneha outlines the key competencies for communicators of tomorrow.

Whether you're a seasoned professional or new to the field, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge on leveraging storytelling and AI to elevate your communication strategies. Don't miss this opportunity to learn from one of the industry's leading voices and discover how you can harness the power of narrative to drive meaningful connections and business success.

Listen in and hear about...

• The critical role of executive storytelling in building trust and conveying organizational vision.
• How authenticity and personal narratives enhance leadership communication.
• The impact of AI on executive storytelling, offering enhanced personalization and content optimization.
• Strategies for maintaining trust and credibility in a divided social landscape.
• The importance of a strong executive presence on LinkedIn for business visibility and engagement.
• Key skills for future storytellers, including empathy, AI mastery, and data-driven creativity.
• The evolving landscape of communication, emphasizing the balance between technology and human insight.

On the Essence of Storytelling: "I think my love affair with storytelling dates back to my time in the newsroom as a news reporter and as a television news anchor, bearing that responsibility to represent different sides of the story, to bring those stories, those stories that matter, to really be the one to sniff out, you know, stories in the most unlikely, unexpected places." — Anuneha Mewawalla [03:42 - 04:02]

On the Role of Storytelling in Leadership: "A story is not the facts of which it is composed or the points of which it is composed. A story is the composition." — Dan Nestle [05:25 - 05:53]

On Executive Storytelling: "Executive storytelling is absolutely foundational. It is not just one other tactic, one other channel. It is the strategic backbone that shapes how leaders communicate their vision, their values, their impact, and it's also how they are perceived." — Anuneha Mewawalla [05:54 - 06:15]

On Authentic Leadership: "What it comes down to is authenticity. I think it's the willingness to be personal. Because when you're personal, when you are willing to share a little bit more about that person, the values, the leadership values, the mindsets, the philosophies behind whoever your, whatever your title is, the likelihood that you come across as real and relatable is that much higher." — Anuneha Mewawalla [11:46 - 12:16]

On the Power of Personal Stories: "Working with the, you know, one of the C suite executives at a major tech company, you know, him being willing to share with the organization as part of all hands meetings, what are their top five leadership values. But really each of them was associated with a story. Either a story that was a struggle, a failure, or something that propelled them forward." — Anuneha Mewawalla [12:47 - 13:17]

On Engaging Employees: "When you get it right, when you get executive storytelling right, when they are, in fact, inviting stakeholders to join them in a journey to understand the why behind their sort of persuading you and, you know, getting you to understand why. There is, you know, there's. There's a joint purpose. There's a mutual purpose at stake here. Amazing things can happen." — Anuneha Mewawalla [16:22 - 16:53]

On the Importance of Authenticity: "Being authentic doesn't mean that you have to tell every single personal story all the time. It doesn't mean that you have to share everything, but it does mean that what you do tell has to be real." — Dan Nestle [25:24 - 25:55]

On Leadership Presence on LinkedIn: "A strong executive presence on LinkedIn is fundamentally important in today's day and age. And I think what the numbers are also telling us is that in our digital first world today, a leader's brand on LinkedIn, a leader's personal brand on LinkedIn has become just, you know, inextricably linked to their company's broader visibility and the company's broader brand." — Anuneha Mewawalla [29:17 - 32:14]

On AI and Executive Storytelling: "AI can deliver benefits in four key areas. When it comes to executive storytelling, I think it's certainly not replacing executive storytelling as we know it. It's amplifying it in these four ways." — Anuneha Mewawalla [41:15 - 42:18]

On the Future of Storytelling: "Empathy and EQ would be number one. Second would be mastery in working with AI tools. Three will be multimodal storytelling. Four would be data driven creativity. Five is going to be growth mindset." — Anuneha Mewawalla [55:06 - 58:01]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Anuneha Mewawalla

• Anuneha Mewawalla | LinkedIn
• Lexato Consulting 

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎤 Executive Storytelling Importance (00:14 - 01:20)

• Communicators play a crucial role in preparing leaders to effectively convey their organization's story.
• Leaders must excel at storytelling to build trust and connect with audiences.

📖 Anuneha Mewawalla's Background (01:35 - 02:20)

• Anuneha Mewawalla has extensive experience in journalism and corporate communications.
• She founded Lexato Consulting, focusing on executive brand strategy and storytelling.

📊 Defining Storytelling (05:22 - 08:34)

• Storytelling is about creating meaningful connections through narrative, not just sharing facts.
• Effective executive storytelling invites stakeholders into the leader's worldview and builds trust.

💡 Authenticity in Leadership (11:01 - 14:32)

• Authenticity and personal storytelling are essential for leaders to connect with employees.
• Anuneha shared examples of leaders who effectively used personal narratives to enhance credibility and trust.

🌍 Navigating Social Issues (20:29 - 25:24)

• Leaders must balance authenticity with the need to address diverse social issues within their workforce.
• Staying grounded in company values is essential for effective communication during challenging times.

🔍 AI's Role in Storytelling (34:01 - 42:09)

• AI can enhance executive storytelling through personalization, adaptation, content optimization, and multimedia integration.
• AI should be viewed as a tool to amplify human storytelling, not replace it.

📈 Future Skills for Storytellers (55:02 - 58:01)

• Five essential skills for future storytellers include:

1. Empathy and emotional intelligence
2. Mastery of AI tools
3. Multimodal storytelling capabilities
4. Data-driven creativity
5. Growth mindset to adapt to new technologies

🔑 Final Thoughts on AI and Storytelling (1:06:04 - 1:07:30)

• AI will transform communications, and professionals should embrace its potential to enhance storytelling.
• Urged colleagues to build an AI mindset and leverage technology for better communication outcomes.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro

5:22 Defining Storytelling

11:45 Inviting Stakeholders

17:21 Leadership and Engagement

25:24 Navigating Social Issues

32:14 LinkedIn Presence

41:14 AI and Trust

49:46 Storytelling Frameworks

55:06 Future of Storytelling

1:02:17 AI and Storytelling

1:09:20 Closing Remarks

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

How many times have you heard that career paths in PR and Communications are full of options and opportunities? Maybe that's true when you're just getting started, but for many of us, as we progress in our careers, we start to notice fences and guardrails rising ever higher as the path itself becomes narrow and steep. What does it take to jump the fence or take it down? Or are we in a communications cage?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle connects with corporate communications executive Emily York, a communications veteran whose journey spans journalism, agency work, consulting, and senior leadership roles at global companies. Emily shares her experiences transitioning from a corporate role at Beam Suntory (now Suntory Global Spirits) to starting her own consultancy and ultimately leading global communications at executive search powerhouse Russell Reynolds Associates. Together, they discuss the challenges and opportunities that come with career transitions, the evolving nature of the communications profession, and the critical role of soft skills and strategic thinking in an AI-driven future.

Emily and Dan discuss approaches and attitudes toward navigating career changes, the importance of staying curious and adaptable, and how to leverage relationships and trust to thrive in ambiguous environments. They also explore the impact of technology on the communications landscape and the need for communicators to stay ahead of trends, from AI to media consumption habits.

Whether you're contemplating a career shift or seeking to enhance your strategic communication skills, this episode offers valuable insights and practical advice from two industry experts. Tune in to discover how to embrace change, build meaningful connections, and position yourself for success in the ever-evolving world of communications.

Listen in and hear about...

• The evolving role of communications professionals in a dynamic and uncertain marketplace.
• Insights into the importance of soft skills and relationship-building in the age of AI and technology.
• Strategies for staying engaged and inspired in a communications role, even when facing routine or challenges.
• The significance of understanding media consumption trends and adapting communication strategies accordingly.
• Navigating career transitions and the value of networking and continuous learning in professional growth.

Notable Quotes

On the Role of Communications:

"Comms and marketing have always been two facets of the same diamond. So when I think about the comms profession and my career within it, I think that's been a differentiator." — Dan Nestle [00:00 - 00:30]

On the Nature of Corporate Jobs:

"Corporate job seems like a corporate job. And aren't they all the same? And you're asked to do similar things, but they're really different." — Emily York [08:01 - 09:56]

On Career Growth:

"You have to figure out how to right size, either the load or the directions your brain are going in and how deep you can go when you're spreading out." — Emily York [11:27 - 13:17]

On Career Development:

"People who have so excelled in their career across all the areas of comms and developed really deep relationships with partners, whether that is your vendors or your executives. And you develop this really strategic thought partnership type relationships where those people can then see the value of you in other areas of the business." — Emily York [19:21 - 20:29]

On Embracing Change:

"Sometimes you can have loved a job and a place so much that you can be aware of both things and still not be fully committed to leaving." — Emily York [25:44 - 27:01]

On the Importance of Soft Skills:

"The contributions that we humans are going to be able to make are really in the soft skills and how we make people feel and how we sell those ideas and how we think strategically and pull things together and bring groups of people together and solve problems." — Emily York [46:26 - 47:38]

On the Future of Work:

"The future is ambiguous and it's going to be an increasingly important skill and agility. So adapting in those situations and trying to thrive in those situations." — Emily York [1:05:59 - 1:06:44]

Resources and Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Emily York

• Emily York | LinkedIn

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎙️ Daniel's Transition to Consultancy (00:00 - 02:10)

• Daniel Nestle reflects on his career transition from corporate communications to running his own consultancy.
• He emphasizes the need for curiosity and exploration in this new role.

🤝 Emily York's Career Journey (02:10 - 10:14)

• Emily York shares her background in journalism and her transition to corporate communications and consulting.
• She discusses her current role as the global head of communications at Russell Reynolds Associates and the challenges of leading communications in a service-oriented industry.

🔄 Challenges in Corporate Communications (10:14 - 18:00)

• Both Daniel and Emily discuss the narrow focus of corporate communications roles and the temptation to seek breadth over depth.
• They highlight the importance of staying engaged and inspired in one's role to avoid complacency.

📊 Navigating Career Changes (18:00 - 27:00)

• Emily discusses the importance of networking and relationship-building during career transitions.
• She emphasizes the significance of understanding the evolving nature of work and the necessity of adaptability.

🌐 Future of Communications (27:00 - 37:00)

• Daniel and Emily explore the impact of technology, particularly AI, on the communications profession.
• They stress the need for communicators to stay updated on media consumption trends and the responsible use of technology.

🔍 Skills for Future Communicators (37:00 - 49:00)

• Emily identifies essential skills for future communicators, including strong writing abilities, technological proficiency, and analytical skills.
• She emphasizes the importance of soft skills and relationship-building in a technology-driven landscape.

💡 Comfort with Ambiguity (49:00 - 55:00)

• Emily highlights the necessity for communicators to be comfortable with ambiguity and to adapt to changing circumstances.
• She reinforces the importance of trust and collaboration in professional relationships.

🌱 Final Thoughts on Career Development (55:00 - 1:07:00)

• Daniel and Emily conclude by discussing the importance of continuous learning and personal growth in navigating career paths.
• They agree on the value of human connections and the need for communicators to maintain their unique perspectives amidst technological advancements.

📅 Wrap-Up and Future Outlook (1:07:00 - 1:12:18)

• Daniel expresses excitement about the future for both himself and Emily, encouraging listeners to stay engaged and proactive in their careers.
• Emily shares her positive experiences in consulting and the importance of collaboration in her work.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro

5:42 Emily York's Role at Russell Reynolds

11:04 Challenges in Corporate Communications

17:54 Career Transitions and Opportunities

24:31 Recognizing Career Change Signs

31:13 Consulting and Career Decisions

38:04 Balancing Work and Keeping Up with Trends

45:29 Future of Communications Roles

51:49 Importance of Human Skills in AI Era

57:55 Soft Skills and Relationship Building

1:05:59 Comfort with Ambiguity and Agility

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Take a look at any job description today--either in your organization or posted to a job board--and you might notice that it's not entirely accurate, especially for communications and marketing roles. It's almost as if they're created to fit into a system of some kind....oh wait, they are. Job descriptions, from the simple to the complex, are often nothing more than checklists designed for ease of processing and evaluation. They're meant to be a set of shaped holes; our experiences are the pegs that must fit. But what happens when AI fills some of those holes? Or when AI-enabled employees expand their roles and contributions in new, innovative directions, and their pegs no longer fit? What happens to employee engagement and corporate culture as disruption becomes the norm?

In this episode of The Trending Communicator, host Dan Nestle sits down with tech entrepreneur-turned-communicator Pinaki Kathiari, CEO of digital communications agency Local Wisdom, to explore the evolving landscape of work in the digital age. As AI continues to revolutionize industries, Dan and Pinaki discuss the obsolescence of conventional job descriptions and the potential for AI to serve as a co-creator in our professional lives.

Pinaki shares his unique journey from a UX and web design specialist to a leader in digital transformation, emphasizing the intersection of technology, employee experience, and corporate culture. He and Dan examine how AI can empower individuals to transcend traditional roles, fostering creativity and innovation in unexpected ways.

Together, they explore the potential effects of AI on recruitment, performance reviews, and organizational structures, questioning how companies can adapt to a future where roles are fluid and dynamic. Pinaki also highlights the importance of internal communications and employee engagement in building a resilient corporate culture that thrives amidst change.

Whether you're a tech enthusiast, a communications professional, or simply curious about the future of work, this episode offers valuable insights into how AI is reshaping our professional landscape. Tune in to learn how you can harness these changes to enhance your career and contribute to a more human-centric workplace.

Listen in and hear about...

• The evolving nature of job descriptions and roles in the age of AI, challenging traditional career paths.
• How AI serves as a co-creator and innovation engine, reshaping work efficiency and creativity.
• The critical role of internal communications in boosting employee engagement and creating a thriving corporate culture in the age of AI.
• The impact of AI on intellectual workers and the potential for redefining roles and responsibilities.
• Challenges and opportunities in adapting corporate structures to accommodate new technologies and employee-driven innovation.
• The importance of mindfulness and proactive communication in leadership to prevent burnout and foster a supportive work environment.

Notable Quotes

On Job Descriptions and AI: "Job descriptions and roles as we know them are obsolete. That's right, I said it. They're obsolete. I'm talking about comms and marketing roles. But I think the same thing can be said for most of the so-called knowledge workers today."

— Dan Nestle [00:00 - 00:20]

On AI's Role in Work: "AI is an innovation engine. It should enable us to not only be more efficient, it should and will increasingly be a co-creator and co-explorer, helping us to change the way we work and what we produce and even the nature of what we can contribute."

— Dan Nestle [00:28 - 00:45]

On the Transition to Internal Comms: "We saw that they're just not getting the same amount of love from a resourcing perspective as external communications and marketing."

— Pinaki Kathiari [08:17 - 08:27]

On the Impact of AI: "The amount of power that we've had before AI in our back pockets was astounding compared to like 10 years ago, 20 years ago. Now with the advent of AI on top of that stuff, it's, it's. We could code on the fly, we could design on the fly, we could write on the fly, we could ask questions and learn on the fly without having to do much."

— Pinaki Kathiari [20:07 - 20:30]

On the Future of Work: "I think it's going to get much, much more messier before it gets better. And you got to kind of like learn things. And it's going to take some people, you know, some companies who are like leading to kind of push through and test things out."

— Pinaki Kathiari [35:50 - 36:02]

On Being Human at Work: "I hope having a machine intellect might help us be more human and treat each other more like humans and not machines, which we've been doing all this time."

— Pinaki Kathiari [39:25 - 39:45]

On Corporate Culture: "I think we have to be careful of just how we treat people. So I think if I kind of go with it as, like, whether you're performing high or performing low, we want to work with you to get to where we think you should be or you think you should be."

— Pinaki Kathiari [50:14 - 50:36]

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Pinaki Kathiari

• Pinaki Kathiari | LinkedIn
• Local Wisdom | Website
• Resource Hero | Website
• Pinaki Kathiari | Twitter

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎙️ Job Descriptions and Roles (00:13 - 01:14)

• Daniel Nestle asserts that traditional job descriptions in communications and marketing are becoming obsolete.
• Emphasizes that AI acts as an innovation engine, enabling new ways of working beyond fixed job roles.

🤝 Employee Engagement and Culture Change (01:43 - 04:01)

• Pinaki Kathiari, CEO of Local Wisdom, discusses his background in UX and how it led him to focus on employee experience and internal communications.
• Highlights the importance of connecting employee experience with brand outcomes.

💡 Transformation of Internal Communications (08:08 - 10:01)

• Pinaki Kathiari explains the evolution of internal communications roles and the need for better resource allocation compared to external communications.
• Discusses his personal experience in implementing culture change within Local Wisdom.

🔄 Changing Nature of Work and AI's Role (19:16 - 22:15)

• Daniel Nestle discusses how AI can handle baseline tasks, allowing employees to focus on more creative and strategic work.
• Stresses the importance of adapting corporate structures to accommodate these changes.

📊 Performance Reviews and Accountability (44:15 - 46:10)

• Daniel Nestle critiques traditional performance reviews and the challenges of holding employees accountable in a rapidly changing work environment.
• Suggests that organizations need to rethink how they measure success and contributions.

🌱 Future of Corporate Culture (56:57 - 59:53)

• Pinaki Kathiari emphasizes the need for organizations to support employees' passions and interests rather than confining them to rigid job descriptions.
• Advocates for a more flexible approach to career development, allowing employees to explore various roles and responsibilities.

🔍 Mindfulness in Leadership (1:05:00 - 1:07:21)

• Pinaki Kathiari highlights the importance of mindfulness for leaders to ensure they are not overwhelming employees with new initiatives.
• Encourages leaders to check in with their teams before implementing changes to avoid burnout.

📅 Planning for Change (1:03:20 - 1:04:22)

• Daniel Nestle suggests that organizations should shift from annual planning to shorter, more agile planning cycles to adapt to rapid changes in the workplace.
• Emphasizes the need for flexibility in goals and accountability as technology evolves.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Intro

5:12 Early Career Insights

7:39 Career Path

12:45 Transition Challenges

18:16 Job Descriptions

23:30 Evolving Roles

27:10 AI's Impact

33:47 Creativity and Technology

39:25 Human Experience

45:08 Workplace Culture

50:13 Team Dynamics

56:22 Leadership Styles

1:02:01 Mindfulness in Leadership

1:07:30 Future Outlook

1:11:55 Conclusion

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

So many of us--especially communicators--struggle to make the case when it counts.  Sure, you may have all the facts at your fingertips, and there's no doubt you feel strongly about your point of view. But when you get to the boardroom, the interview, or any meeting for that matter, are you in the conversation or on the sidelines? Are your contributions making an impact? Do you have a seat at the table? 

Perhaps you're missing a key ingredient in your leadership cocktail: Influence.

Join host Dan Nestle as he welcomes author, teacher, strategist, and recognized authority on influence in PR and Communications, Deirdre Breakenridge, back to the show to help us understand what influence means to our profession - and how we can cultivate this critical quality. Discover how Deirdre's FEEL model (Face your fears, Engage with empathy, live with Ethics, unleash the Love) has transformed into the Influential Communicator framework, emphasizing the importance of emotional intelligence (EQ), authenticity, and ethical conduct in building trust and relationships.

Deirdre shares practical insights on the critical skills needed to wield influence effectively, the challenges communicators face in adopting new technologies like AI, and the importance of maintaining core human skills amidst digital advancements. She and Dan talk about the potential for AI to support and augment our ability to influence and what that might mean for the future of work, especially in communications. As an example, she talks about Facial Impact Quotient (FIQ), her innovative AI tool that analyzes facial expressions to enhance communication effectiveness, and how it can be a game-changer for professionals seeking to improve their presentation skills.

Whether you're a seasoned communicator or new to the field, this episode is relevant. It offers valuable lessons on enhancing your influence, building trust, and confidently navigating the future of communications. Tune in to understand how you can leverage your unique skills to lead--and influence--in the ever-evolving landscape of AI and Communications.

• The evolving role of communications professionals in the context of AI and technology, emphasizing the need for leadership in its adoption.
• The importance of influence over self-promotion, focusing on building trust and credibility within organizations.
• Introduction of the "Influential Communicator" model, highlighting its components of empathy, ethics, and effective communication.
• Challenges faced by communicators in adapting to new technologies and the significance of emotional intelligence, authenticity, and ethical conduct.
• The impact of technology, particularly AI and facial recognition, on communication, and the limitations of AI in interpreting emotional cues.
• Development of human skills to enhance relationships and influence, including the use of tools to understand emotional signals.
• Resources and training opportunities for developing emotional intelligence and influence skills, aligning personal priorities with organizational goals.

Notable Quotes

• "You can't have a relationship if you don't feel. If you're in PR and communications, the relationship is everything. How do you advance conversations?" — Deirdre Breckenridge [03:58 - 04:03]
• "Influence is your ability to move someone in the direction that you desire, an action that you'd like them to take, a way that they're going to participate with you." — Deirdre Breckenridge [13:27 - 13:34]
• "You're not going to influence many people if you don't have confidence in who you are or what you're doing. You have to be fully present, aligned, and believing." - Deirdre Breckenridge [00:16:52]
•  "Emotional intelligence plays a part of it, your authenticity. I also think your contribution score when you're speaking, how much value do you add?" — Deirdre Breckenridge [19:21 - 19:30]
• "Empathy is on different levels. And I think you have to break down the levels of empathy to truly understand where you are with the person who you're trying to influence." — Deirdre Breckenridge [22:56 - 23:05]
• "You certainly can't even get to a place of empathy. You don't have the deep listening. Listening is always the number one." — Deirdre Breckenridge [29:53 - 30:00]
•  "Technology, as helpful as it is, can be a huge distraction because the screen time, we're constantly getting stimulated by what we see." — Deirdre Breckenridge [36:12 - 36:20]
• "Your brain has to be calm in order for you to be verbally fluent. If your brain is spinning because of all the technology and the excitement and the dopamine hits, you can't get the words out." - Dan Nestle [00:37:37]
•  "You don't want somebody building trust with the CEO for you. You're going to do that. So using it to our benefit." — Deirdre Breckenridge [42:01 - 42:08]
• "We need more work on our human skills because better relationships are built on trust, and trust gets you to influence." - Deirdre Breckenridge [00:46:04]

Resources & Links

Dan Nestle

• Inquisitive Communications | Website
• The Trending Communicator | Website
• Communications Trends from Trending Communicators | Dan Nestle's Substack
• Dan Nestle | LinkedIn
• Dan Nestle | Twitter

Deirdre Breakenridge

• Deirdre Breakenridge | LinkedIn
• Deirdre Breakenridge | Website
• The Influential Communicator | Newsletter
• Facial Impact Quotient | AI Facial Expressions Tool
• Deirdre Breakenridge Books | Amazon Author Page

Timestamped key moments from this episode (as generated by Fireflies.ai)

🎤 AI Adoption in Communications (00:13 - 01:39)

• Discussed insights from a recent conference on AI adoption in organizations.
• Emphasized the role of AI in enhancing the communications remit and raising the profile of the communications team.
• Noted the importance of building trust and credibility within organizations.

🗣️ The Influential Communicator Model (04:00 - 05:56)

• Deirdre Breakenridge introduced her "Influential Communicator" model, which builds on her previous "feel" framework.
• Stressed the significance of tuning in and aligning verbally and nonverbally to connect better with others.

📈 Leadership and Influence in Communications (06:09 - 12:18)

• Discussed the evolving landscape of leadership and influence within the communications profession.
• Highlighted the need for communicators to embrace AI and other trending areas to enhance their influence.
• Suggested that communicators often view AI as someone else's responsibility rather than taking the lead.

🔍 Defining Influence (13:20 - 19:21)

• Defined influence as the ability to move someone toward a desired action or participation.
• Identified key factors for building influence, including emotional intelligence, authenticity, and effective communication.
• Noted that confidence plays a crucial role in being perceived as influential.

🧠 Empathy and Listening Skills (23:06 - 30:29)

• Explored the different levels of empathy: cognitive, emotional, and compassionate.
• Emphasized the importance of deep listening as a key component of influence.
• Suggested that being fully present and aware enhances the ability to influence others.

📊 Training for Influence (31:44 - 34:07)

• Deirdre outlined her training program, focusing on becoming calm, clear, concise, and confident.
• Discussed the importance of aligning verbal and nonverbal communication to enhance influence.

🤖 AI and Communication Skills (36:08 - 39:01)

• Addressed the potential distractions of technology on communication skills.
• Encouraged professionals to develop human skills alongside technological advancements to maintain effectiveness in communication.

🔬 Facial Recognition Tool for Emotion Analysis (47:10 - 50:26)

• Deirdre introduced her AI facial recognition tool designed to analyze emotions during presentations.
• The tool captures micro-expressions and provides feedback on emotional responses, aiding in improving communication effectiveness.

🌟 Future of Communication and Influence (57:06 - 59:38)

• Highlighted the growing recognition of emotional intelligence and empathy as critical skills in leadership.
• Encouraged professionals to cultivate their influence skills to adapt to the evolving landscape of communication and technology.

Timestamps for your convenience (as generated by Flowsend.ai)

0:00 Influence and Leadership in the Communications Industry

13:27 The Role of Confidence and Emotional Intelligence in Influence

16:24 Human Skills and Trust Building

19:21 Emotional Intelligence as a Critical Skill

27:29 Forensic Listening Framework

29:53 The Art of Deep Listening and Influence

32:00 The Influential Communicator Program

34:07 The Impact of Technology on Communication Skills

36:12 The Role of Calmness in Effective Communication

47:10 Developing Analytics for AI Tools

49:56 AI Tools and Accuracy Challenges

53:40 Advancements in Facial Recognition Technology

57:48 AI's Role in Enhancing Communication Teams

(Notes co-created by Human Dan and a variety of AI helpers, including Fireflies.ai and Flowsend.ai)

About The Trending Communicator

The Trending Communicator is a podcast about the future of communications and marketing, hosted by Dan Nestle. Each episode is a conversation with a communicator, marketer, author, or technologist about how the work is changing and what that means for the people doing it. The show launched in 2020 as The Dan Nestle Show and has published more than 150 episodes.

About the Host

Dan Nestle (Daniel Nestle) is a communications strategist with more than 25 years of experience, including 16 years in Japan. He is co-founder and Chief Product & Intelligence Officer of Lilypath, the company behind the patent-pending Authority Intelligence™ platform, and founder and Chief Curiosity Officer of Inquisitive Communications, a strategic advisory practice. He received the 2022 Arthur W. Page Society Page Up Innovation Award, was named a PRWeek Dashboard 25 AI Pioneer in 2023 and 2024, and was named one of Propel's 100 Most Influential PR Tech Leaders Worldwide in 2025.

Connect with Dan

The Trending Communicator: https://trendingcommunicator.com
Substack: https://trendingcommunicator.substack.com
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/nestle
Lilypath: https://lilypath.com
Inquisitive Communications: https://be-inquisitive.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/trendingcommunicator

Show notes for The Trending Communicator are co-created by Human Dan, Claude, and Fireflies.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.