The Truth About Burnout

The Truth About Burnout

By Avery ThatcherSelf-Improvement
Download on the App Store

The Truth About Burnout episodes

  • Shelly Starks on Reigniting Passion and Prioritizing Wellbeing

    On this episode of The Truth About Burnout podcast, we are honored to feature Shelly Starks, the CEO of Inline Consulting Services, LLC. With over 20 years of experience in both Extended DISC® coaching and business advising, Shelly has been a transformative force in communications coaching within the business community. Her expertise lies in helping businesses and individuals understand behavioral styles and team dynamics to unlock scalable growth. Shelly is deeply passionate about helping businesses realize the ROI of investing in their people, making her insights invaluable for anyone looking to foster a healthy, productive work environment.

    Shelly's personal journey with burnout adds a compelling layer to her professional achievements. As a high achiever from a young age, she found herself exhausted in her career by 2022, not living authentically, and facing significant health challenges, including a radical hysterectomy that led to early menopause. As a breast cancer survivor, she navigated the complex road to hormone replacement therapy, all while grappling with the mental, emotional, and physical tolls of burnout. On this episode, Shelly shares how she rediscovered her spark for life through career coaching, grounding techniques, and prioritizing self-care, offering listeners powerful strategies for overcoming burnout.

    [00:00 - 05:30] Introduction to Shelly Starks

    • Introduction to Shelly Starks, CEO of Inline Consulting Services, LLC.
    • Overview of Shelly's 20+ years of experience in Extended DISC® coaching and business advising.
    • Discussion on the importance of understanding behavioral styles for scalable growth.
    • [05:31 - 12:15] Shelly's High Achiever Mindset

      • Shelly shares her journey as a high achiever since childhood.
      • How the high achiever mindset has both served and sabotaged her over the years.
      • Insights into the pressure and expectations that come with being a high achiever.
      • [12:16 - 20:00] The Burnout Experience (2022)

        • Shelly describes her exhaustion and lack of authenticity in her career leading up to 2022.
        • The impact of her radical hysterectomy and the onset of full-blown menopause at 45.
        • Challenges faced as a breast cancer survivor, especially in managing hormone replacement therapy.
        • [20:01 - 28:45] Recovery Strategies

          • Shelly's path to recovery, including working with a career coach to reignite her passion.
          • The role of calming techniques such as grounding, meditation, and breathwork in her healing process.
          • Importance of prioritizing "me" time and self-care at home.
          • [28:46 - 35:00] The ROI of Investing in People

            • How Shelly helps businesses find ROI in investing in their people through communications coaching.
            • The tangible progress her clients achieve by focusing on team dynamics and behavioral styles.
            • Closing thoughts on the importance of addressing burnout in the workplace.

            •  

              Guest Links:


              Website: https://shellystarks.com/

               

              Social Media Links:

              LinkedIn

              Facebook

              Instagram

               

              33 min
            • Energy vs Stress Management: Balancing Non-Profit Workloads

              In the non-profit sector, where your passion and purpose drive your daily grind, the threat of burnout is a shadow that often lingers just a little bit too close. You pour your heart into your work, striving to make a meaningful impact on your corner of the world, but this relentless dedication can take a toll. As a leader, you bear the responsibility of supporting your team while grappling with your own burnout. Understanding and addressing the difference between energy management and stress management is crucial for sustainable productivity and well-being. Let’s take a moment to talk about these concepts and how they can help you find balance in your workloads and those of your team.

              The Heart of Burnout in Non-Profits

              Burnout in non-profits is often a result of your deep emotional investment in your work. You care deeply about your mission, which can make the stakes feel incredibly high. This emotional intensity, combined with limited resources and high demands, creates a perfect storm for burnout. It's not just about managing the stress of the workload; it’s about managing your energy in a way that allows you to sustain your passion without depleting your reserves.

              Understanding Stress Management

              Stress management is often the first thing that comes to mind when you think about coping with burnout. It involves techniques and strategies to reduce the physical and emotional strain that stress causes. This can include mindfulness practices, exercise, adequate sleep, and time management strategies. While these are essential, they often address the symptoms rather than the root cause of burnout.

              The Role of Energy Management

              Energy management, on the other hand, focuses on maintaining and optimizing your physical, emotional, mental, and fulfillment energy. It’s about understanding how different tasks and interactions either drain or replenish your energy. By recognizing this, you can structure your days to balance energy expenditure with activities that rejuvenate you. This proactive approach can help prevent burnout before it starts, rather than just mitigating its effects.

              Key Differences Between Energy and Stress Management

              To truly support your team and yourself, you need to understand the key differences between energy management and stress management:

              1. Focus: Stress management often focuses on minimizing negative outcomes, whereas energy management is about maximizing positive energy.
              2. Approach: Stress management is reactive, dealing with stress after it has occurred. Energy management is proactive, aiming to maintain a consistent flow of energy.
              3. Impact: While stress management can reduce the immediate effects of burnout, energy management helps build long-term resilience and sustainability.
              4. Implementing Energy Management in Non-Profits

                So, how can you incorporate energy management into your non-profit work? Here are some strategies:

                1. Identify Energy Drainers and Boosters: Encourage your team to identify tasks and activities that drain their energy and those that boost it. Create a balance between these activities throughout the day.
                2. Flexible Planning Based on Current Energy Levels: Look ahead and adjust your tasks based on the kind of energy you have that day. If you’re low on mental or emotional energy, choose simpler tasks or look for ways to make your day easier. If you’re low on physical energy, choose tasks that require more brain-power and make sure to take short rest breaks to continue to boost your energy. It’s important that you not only do this for yourself, but also demonstrate and support your team to do it as well.
                3. Promote Breaks and Downtime: Encourage regular breaks and ensure your team takes adequate time off. Downtime is crucial for recharging energy levels.
                4. Cultivate a Positive Work Environment: Foster a supportive and positive work culture. Recognition, appreciation, and a sense of belonging can significantly boost emotional energy.
                5. Professional Development: Invest in training and development that focuses on personal growth and well-being, not just job skills. This can empower your team and help them manage their energy more effectively.
                6. Practical Steps for Leaders

                  As a leader, you have to walk the talk. Your team looks to you for cues on how to handle workload and stress. By prioritizing your own energy management, you set a powerful example. This means being open about your own struggles with burnout, practicing self-care, and showing that it’s okay to prioritize well-being.

                  1. Self-Awareness: Reflect on your own energy levels and identify what drains and replenishes you. Share these insights with your team to foster a culture of openness.
                  2. Set Boundaries: Clearly define work and personal boundaries. Respect these boundaries yourself and encourage your team to do the same.
                  3. Delegate and Empower: Trust your team with responsibilities and delegate tasks. This not only reduces your workload but also empowers your team members and builds their confidence.
                  4. Regular Check-Ins: Have regular one-on-one meetings with your team members to discuss their workload and energy levels. Offer support and adjust workloads as needed.
                  5. The Power of Community

                    One of the most powerful resources in a non-profit is your sense of community. Model a culture where team members support each other and feel safe to bring up mistakes, near misses, or struggles. This can be through peer mentoring, collaborative projects, or simply creating spaces where people can share their experiences and challenges.

                    Creating community anchors such as:

                    • a book lending library, 
                    • regular cookie-swap events where your team members bake or buy a dozen cookies and then bring them in to share/swap with the rest of the team so everyone still leaves with a dozen cookies,
                    • wellness challenges
                    • lunch and learn speaker series with either guest experts, or members of your team sharing about their culture and heritage
                    • potluck meals once a quarter or once a month
                    • an employee recognition bulletin board
                    • Give people more reasons than just collecting a pay-cheque to come into work.

                      Moving Forward with Balance

                      Balancing workloads in a non-profit is a continuous journey. It requires you to be attuned to your own needs and those of your team. By shifting your focus from merely managing stress to actively managing your energy, you can create a more sustainable and fulfilling work environment. This not only helps prevent burnout but also enhances your ability to make a positive impact.

                      From my own experience, I know how easy it is to get caught up in the mission and forget about your own well-being. I’ve learned the hard way that ignoring the signs of burnout can lead to more significant issues down the road. Taking the time to manage my energy, rather than just reacting to stress, has made a profound difference in my life and my work. I encourage you to explore these strategies and find what works best for you and your team. You’re in this together, and by supporting each other, you can continue to do the vital work that drives you.

                      Balancing workloads in the non-profit sector is not just about managing tasks; it’s about managing your energy and supporting each other in meaningful ways. By understanding the difference between energy management and stress management, you can create a healthier, more resilient work environment. Commit to taking care of yourself and your team, ensuring that you can continue to make the world a better place without sacrificing your own well-being.

                       

                      13 min
                    • Functional Medicine and Burnout: Discovering the Roots of Wellness with Dr. Laura Miles

                      Speaker_00 - 00:00

                      I completely agree.
                      I think a lot of what's talked about is for burnout recovery is just all the stress management things which is like the band-aid but we're not actually fixing the rushing wound that's underneath that if we're not addressing the contributing factors.
                      So I have heard a little bit about adrenal fatigue and I was working with a functional medicine physician and that was helping me with that but why don't you explain a little bit more about what that is for the people that wouldn't know.
                      Hi, I'm Avery Thatcher, a former ICU nurse, and this is not your standard stress management podcast where we just focus on those band-aid solutions like the benefits of meditation, mindfulness, and self-care.
                      You already know that you need some kind of recovery strategy to deal with your stressful life.
                      But what you may not know are all of the sneaky ways that society, our upbringing, and our high achieving nature, and so many other factors contribute to our risk of burnout.
                      That, my friend, is what we talk about here on this podcast because you can't do something about a situation that you're not aware of, right?

                      Avery- 01:03
                      So if you're ready to get out of the pattern of burning out, feeling better, only to burn out again, it's time for us to shut the light on the truth about burnout.
                      I am very excited to bring on my guest today because Laura has a really interesting story to share and I know it'll be one that a lot of us can relate to in different stages.
                      So welcome, Laura.
                      Happy to have you here.

                      Laura - 01:29
                      So glad to be here.
                      Thank you for having me here.

                      Avery- 01:32
                      Yes, course.
                      I just think it's so wonderful when people are willing to share their story because, you know, our story can become somebody else's survival guide and I think that's just such an important piece of our human experience, so thank you.

                      Laura - 01:46
                      Absolutely.

                      Avery- 01:48
                      So why don't you tell us a little bit about you and when you first identified as a high achiever?

                      Laura - 01:54
                      I think I've been a high achiever my whole life and it just snowballs so I was I'm a physician and I was in my own practice and I had two younger kids and it was just blowing and going everyone was busy my kids were in their own activities they were doing you know soccer and Piano, ice skating
                      and then I had my life of working full-time I'd literally drop them off at school and I'd run to work and then run back and pick them up and then all the festivities began.
                      I think I was living out of the back of my car is what I always said because I had soccer chairs and I had you know coolers and dinner was kind of whatever we drove by that was close and so you hate to even admit that now but it's like yeah you know how it goes.
                      And over time that just kept, you know, I just kept thinking, well, I can do it all.
                      You know, I'm, I'm not that busy.
                      And they'd ask you to do something at school.
                      Sure.

                      Laura - 02:54
                      I can do that.
                      So, you know, here's another added, added stressor and another added thing that you had to accomplish.
                      And so over time it really started wearing, you know, wearing me out and I was really getting tired and, and I'd come home.
                      I was just exhausted all the time.
                      It was irritable.
                      My cycles got really all messed up.
                      I started kind of losing words and my kids would be saying mom we told you that and I couldn't even remember the conversation.

                      Laura - 03:22
                      I named it word inversions I would be thinking something and something else would come out and I go oh wait that's not what I meant to say and it really just It just kept getting worse.
                      So that's kind of when I first started realizing that hey there's really something wrong but I didn't recognize it as burnout.
                      I thought there was something physically wrong with me and so you just kept plugging away.

                      Avery- 03:52
                      Yeah.
                      And that's really common.
                      When I talk with people and they're just like, oh, I don't think I'm burned out.
                      And then we start to go through some of the signs and symptoms and then they're like, oh, okay, so maybe.
                      And it sounds like that's kind of where you were at is you were seeing all of some of these cardinal burnout red flags, but we didn't admit that it was burnout, didn't know it was burnout and you were still looking for something else so that you could keep going at the pace that you were.
                      Is that fair?

                      Laura - 04:22
                      Oh, absolutely.
                      Absolutely.
                      I even went to my doctor and I said, you know, I'm starting to wonder if this is stress.
                      Oh, what do you have to be stressed about?
                      You're fine.
                      Oh, okay.
                      Well, maybe I am fine.

                      Laura - 04:35
                      So you just plug away and keep going another year and then suddenly you're really starting to crash and really feeling terrible.
                      And that's when there was one particular event that happened that really shook me up so much that I had taken my kids to school, run to work.
                      And it was a little different day, the schedule had changed a little bit.
                      Got off work, you know, jumped in my car and I had put a sticky note on my dashboard that morning.
                      I didn't even remember putting the sticky note there on my dashboard though.
                      And the sticky note said, pick up the kids.
                      And I went, oh my goodness, I'm having to leave a sticky note to make sure I haven't forgotten to pick up the kids because their schedule changed.

                      Laura - 05:23
                      And it was just enough of a difference.
                      I was so worried that I would forget to go pick them up at the different time.
                      And that's when I was like okay this has got to stop.
                      I mean I was in my 30s.
                      It should not have been that much.
                      So I really started doing a deep dive into my health and you know traditional medicine was not creating answers.
                      All my lab work was normal.

                      Laura - 05:48
                      And I wasn't getting anywhere and so that's when I started looking even deeper into things and found functional medicine and that's when I recognized that the adrenals, the adrenal burnout, adrenal stress was absolutely real.
                      And when I started addressing that, that's when lightbulbs started coming back on.
                      I felt like I was in more control of my life.
                      And I had to do a lot of work though.
                      It wasn't easy because you really have to stop and look at what's creating that.
                      And you have to make some changes, even though you don't want to, but you have to make some changes.

                      Avery- 06:25
                      I completely agree.
                      I think a lot of what's talked about is for burnout recovery is just all the stress management things, which is like the band-aid, but we're not actually fixing the rushing wound that's underneath that if we're not addressing the contributing factors.
                      I have heard a little bit about adrenal fatigue and I was working with a functional medicine physician and that was helping me with that, but why don't you explain a little bit more about what that is for the people that wouldn't know.

                      Laura - 06:53
                      So adrenal fatigue, you know, first off, you know, traditional medicine doesn't even recognize that term and it's not like the adrenals are like tired and need to take a nap.
                      I think it's just more of a term of a concept of when you are in a fight or flight mode all the time.
                      The adrenal glands are the stress gland.
                      They are the ones that producing all the hormones that are getting you through that fight-or-flight mode.
                      And there are several stages of the adrenals that are kind of leading to burnout and depending on where you are and how long the stress has been going on it really kind of looks a little different all you know all along those paths.
                      So when we're really talking about adrenal fatigue We're looking at a kind of constellation of symptoms that are you know basically if everything else is normal and you're so tired and you're having trouble struggling and you're anxious and you can't get through the day especially having like
                      afternoon fatigue which is a hallmark of adrenal fatigue then you really need to start thinking about oh I wonder if stress is creating a bigger problem that could be adrenal fatigue.

                      Avery- 08:05
                      Great answer, love it.
                      So if somebody was interested in exploring that and wanted to talk to somebody to see if they had adrenal fatigue, what would you recommend they do if their traditional medicine doesn't cover that?

                      Laura - 08:18
                      So the traditional labs you know everything's done in blood work will miss adrenal fatigue now you can pick up adrenal failure in blood work okay and so to look at and rule out adrenal failure you'll get you know a lab like ACTH which is the signal that says hey let's go to the To the adrenal glands
                      and help them make cortisol.
                      You can check your cortisol level and then there is a marker called DHEA and they use the one sulfate so it's DHEAS.
                      Those are the blood markers that you can you can do for adrenals.
                      They miss adrenal fatigue though so you really have to just have that suspicion that it's there.
                      The salivary test that you can get and there's actually some labs around that you can actually order them directly.
                      But taking it four times through the day first thing in the morning you know right before lunch mid-afternoon and bedtime those will actually kind of flush out adrenal fatigue with a lot more accuracy and what you're looking for is that gentle ski slope but very often with adrenal fatigue You might

                      Laura - 09:21
                      start out okay at the top and then you crash and it's just like you fell off the mountain or you're just dragging all day long and they're really low or sometimes when you really get dysregulation you'll be low and then you spike high at night and then of course now you're awake and you have trouble
                      sleeping so going that extra step of looking at the cortisol levels can really make all the difference.
                      And even if you can't do that sometimes there are just there's some questionnaires that you can do that will kind of rat you out because it really puts it in your face of yeah I have been burning the candle at both ends and those can help too.

                      Avery- 10:01
                      Awesome, thank you for those and we'll link to some of those things in the show notes as well.
                      You said that you started to apply some things to help with your adrenal fatigue.
                      So can you share a little bit more about that and other things that you helped get yourself out of that burnout phase?

                      Laura - 10:18
                      So it was multifactorial.
                      It was literally not just one thing.
                      Um, one of the things that I did, I sat down one day and I just wrote out everything that I was doing that caused me stress.
                      And then I categorized them of what can I get rid of?
                      What can I delegate and what do I have to do and how can I reframe it?
                      So I really put kind of a little you know column type of thing and it became very important to really look at those And it was a really hard exercise because there were people's names on that list, you know, so-called friends that caused me stress.
                      And you had to really evaluate those relationships of, you know, what's happening here and, you know, family members that cause you stress and you're not getting rid of family members.

                      Laura - 11:11
                      So how can you change the perception?
                      How can you set a better boundary?
                      What can you do?
                      And boundaries became very, very important and they were very difficult.
                      And I used to actually picture there was an old commercial I forget what Visa company it was or you know it's like one of those loan companies or something that It would actually you know there would be a phone call and then they would say oh can you do this and they would hit this button go no and
                      so I had to visualize myself saying no because I was always saying yes I can help them that yes I can do this and I realized that yes I'm very capable and I can do a lot of things but that doesn't mean I have to.
                      And so I really had to learn how to say no and just keep that space open for what I really wanted to do.

                      Laura - 12:01
                      And I honestly think that was probably the most important thing I did.
                      Now I also did quite a few very targeted supplements.
                      Once I realized that I was dealing with adrenal fatigue I checked the salivary levels.
                      I actually looked at the neurotransmitters which is a urine test that you can do and I started taking targeted supplements to really try to plug in those deficiencies And that made a difference too.
                      So between the two of those things.
                      That really started getting me on the right path and then it kind of snowballed so then you know suddenly I was feeling a little bit better so then I could exercise more and then I started you know really getting excited about what I was doing so it led me down a path that I never even saw coming
                      and it didn't take long to get it reversed but without really doing that deep dive into making the shifts then I would have never really accomplished that.

                      Avery- 12:57
                      Oh, that's perfect.
                      Yes.
                      So the process that you described about like writing down everything and categorizing it and the delegating and creating the space and boundaries.
                      It's exactly what we do in the first two weeks of the recovery program because it's so important to do that.
                      Just to look at all the sources of stress and say like, okay, let's get a plan of attack here.
                      And also, what can I let go of versus what do I need to manage?
                      And that's just so valuable.

                      Avery- 13:25
                      And I'm really glad that you shared that because it's fine that I say, hey, you should do this.
                      But when somebody else says, it was really impactful for me.
                      It makes it easier for somebody that's resisting to follow through.
                      And so as you're rebalancing your high achiever, what are some things that you can catch earlier when your high achiever starts to ascend you back down into that adrenal fatigue burnout kind of space?

                      Laura - 13:52
                      I think what I've learned over the years is to watch for those little telltale signs of suddenly maybe you're not sleeping as well or you're feeling a little bit more anxious or You feel like you can't get everything done.
                      Those are those little tip-offs that hey there's a lot going on and what I've learned is that there's seasons of life that are going to be like that.
                      I mean there just really is and it's not about oh don't be stressed it's about how do you Perceive the stress.
                      How do you handle the stress?
                      Because stress will be there.
                      And so some of the things that I've really watched is that when I find myself kind of slipping into that I really almost do like a little mini checklist of okay what am I doing?
                      What's you know eating my time?

                      Laura - 14:44
                      What can I let go of?
                      What can I pause?
                      And that use that word pause in that very often I will be doing something that I don't have to do right then And so it's about okay I'm gonna pause that I'm gonna get through this season whatever that season looks like and then I'll pick it back up and I have to give myself permission to do that and
                      the grace to do that because I think we as overachievers you feel like you that you can do it all and you just really can't and I always tell my patients if you don't take care of yourself how can you take care of somebody else and so I keep trying to you know come back with that and then I also
                      recognize when I'm really starting to slip Is when I'm really letting go of my boundaries and you know things are starting to encroach a little bit more so I have to step back and go okay let's set that boundary again and let's just figure out okay why do I have space for what do I not and it's not
                      being mean you're not being you know I'm not a good friend you're just recognizing your own space and then actually when you do that you're better You are a better spouse, you are a better friend, you are a better everything and that became a very important part so I always reach for that too.

                      Avery- 15:57
                      Beautiful said and I think as high achievers it's kind of scary to step into something like that because if you truly have that belief like hey I can do it all then you're just like okay maybe I can't that's now accepting that you're a human being and it's really we have to trust that we'll be able
                      to figure it out as we go because once we start to see the impact of those decisions That it's really hard to want to go back to the way things were when you can see how much more impactful you are.

                      Multiple speakers - 16:29
                      Oh, absolutely.

                      Laura - 16:32
                      Absolutely.

                      Avery- 16:34
                      So tell us a little bit, Laura, about what you're doing now.
                      How has this all pivoted and changed things for you?

                      Laura - 16:40
                      So when, when I was in my thirties and all this was happening, I really started looking for answers and you, you know, you'd go to the library and back when, when you went to the library, now you look online.
                      But you I found I was finding more and more things about you know I would take this supplement and take this supplement and you know eventually you had a list of 50 things and you're like I don't know what I need to take and I literally stumbled upon this functional medicine society called
                      Anti-Aging and Functional Medicine Society.
                      And I was like, wow, I don't know anything about that.
                      I need anti-aging.
                      And so I really started investigating that, went to one of their conferences and I walked out and I was like, wow, that was a life game changer because it was looking at the underlying cause of disease versus just slapping a bandaid on it versus just giving a medication.
                      While medications are important, that was not the only answer.

                      Laura - 17:37
                      And so I started kind of really looking at these conferences As a way to help myself and when I started feeling better all my friends were like, what are you taking?
                      We need what you're taking.
                      I was like, well, I don't know if you need what I need.
                      Let's see what you need.
                      So I started testing them and next thing you know, I was testing their neighbors.
                      And the next thing you know, I was testing their neighbors' friends.
                      And suddenly I had a full business out of the back room of my house.

                      Laura - 18:03
                      And that friend of mine said, okay, you've got to open a practice.
                      I was like, I was an ophthalmologist.
                      I was like, I don't need to open a practice.
                      I already have a practice.
                      I'm an ophthalmologist.
                      And you know, long story short, No, God just kind of keeps driving you in the pathway you're supposed to be and next thing you know I was I opened a practice of functional medicine practice I had one room no staff that was 17 and a half years ago and I've been practicing functional medicine ever
                      since now I do it exclusively and I have I don't know how many I've got nine staff I think and it's been such an amazing journey and To really do the deep dive and look for the underlying cause because I just see you know basically my story over and over and over in so many different ways and

                      Laura - 18:52
                      sometimes it's a lot worse sometimes it's not as bad I just know that people feel off and they come in and they go well I think it's my hormones well there are some hormones involved but it's not always the hormones they think there are and so it's been such a rewarding journey Oh that's wonderful

                      Avery- 19:10
                      to hear.
                      So if people want to learn a little bit more about you or check out some of those resources that you have, where would they find you?

                      Laura - 19:17
                      Well I'm on the internet so we have a website and so you can check it out there.
                      We have a course that really basically just tries to Put the tools in your hands on how you can actually look at your own lab work because just because it's a normal range doesn't mean it's optimal range and so there's a thyroid course that's kind of a carved out course and then there's a
                      full course it's a do-it-yourself thing it's do at your own pace Basically has almost 100 handouts and I walk you through this is how you read a thyroid lab, this is how you read a b12 lab, things that you can make some actionable steps and there's some things that are obviously a little bit more
                      complicated that you're not going to be able to just treat yourself but just having the awareness that there actually could be a problem really can get you to go find the people that you need to get the help.
                      So it's not a let me fix it kind of course it's let me figure out the underlying problem And so that way you can ask the right questions.

                      Avery- 20:21
                      Beautiful.
                      So I'll link to it in the show notes, but can you just quickly share what your website is so that somebody listening can quickly type it into their phone?

                      Laura - 20:29
                      So you can do, uh, you can put in Dr. Laura Myles and it's D-I-N-G with just D-R and that would usually get it.

                      Multiple speakers - 20:37
                      Sometimes Laura Myles MD, um, will also come up.

                      Avery- 20:40
                      Beautiful, beautiful.
                      So thank you again for sharing your experiences and your knowledge and just having this open conversation.
                      I'm really grateful.
                      If you would leave the person listening with one final message, what would you want it to be?

                      Laura - 20:56
                      Gosh, there's so many.
                      There's so many lessons, aren't there?
                      There are.
                      I think one final message is that You don't have to do it all.
                      And it's okay to ask for help.
                      It's okay to say no and take care of yourself.
                      It's not being selfish, it's being self-sustaining.

                      Avery- 21:24
                      Ooh, I love that term.
                      Definitely going to be a quote for the episode for sure.
                      Thank you so much, Laura.
                      I'm just so grateful for your time.

                      Laura - 21:34
                      Well, I am so honored to be here.
                      Thank you so much for doing what you're doing.
                      This is such a huge area and I know that just addressing this is really making some life changes in the people you touch.
                      Thank you.

                      Avery- 21:51
                      Hold please.
                      I know that these end-of-podcast blurbs are generally really repetitive and only say, make sure you're subscribed.
                      But this isn't like that.
                      Today I have a little habit challenge for you.
                      Before you sit down to do your next work block, I encourage you to take five slow deep breaths for five seconds on the inhale and five seconds on the exhale.
                      Doing this helps us turn off our stress switch which then regains access to our higher level thinking brain which is something that we talk about in the free course that's included in the productivity partner app which helps you design your pre-work ritual.
                      And inside that productivity partner app, each day there's a mini habit challenge where I take 60 seconds to explain something like this that you can do in your day to become even more effective and impactful as a high achiever.

                      Avery- 22:43
                      You can try it for one week for free by going to thetruthaboutburnout.com.
                      Give nothing to lose and everything to gain.
                      Go give it a try.

                       

                       

                      23 min
                    • Overcoming Burnout: From High Achiever to Empowering Introverts with Serena Low

                      In this episode, Serena Low shares her transformative journey from a high-achieving lawyer grappling with burnout to empowering introverts. She discusses the societal pressures of perfectionism, her struggle with identity, and her newfound passion for helping others navigate similar challenges. Tune in to explore the delicate balance between visibility and privacy for introverts and discover actionable insights for overcoming burnout.

                      24 min
                    • Mastering Work-Life Balance in Nonprofits Organizations

                      Avery - 00:00

                      Work-life balance is about finding harmony between our professional duties and personal lives, something that seems even more elusive than ever.

                      Over the past decade, the lines between work and personal time have blurred, with technology making us accessible just about around the clock.

                      Economic uncertainties and job insecurities have also pushed many of us to work longer hours, constantly proving our worth.

                      The expectation to always be productive has soared, yet the support systems and resources often haven't kept pace.

                      And so this struggle isn't just about managing our schedules better, it's rooted in systemic issues that require structural change, like flexible work policies, adequate staffing, which I know you're really working on, but it's very hard as a non-profit to make sure that you're staffed adequately.

                      And then also talking about a culture that generally values that well-being.

                      And again, especially in the nonprofit sector, recognizing and addressing these broader challenges in a way that works for your organization is crucial for fostering a sustainable balance and truly supporting your dedicated staff to serve the communities that you do.

                       

                      Avery - 01:09

                      So how do we do this?

                      Hi, I'm Avery Thatcher, a former ICU nurse, and this is not your standard stress management podcast where we just focus on those band-aid solutions like the benefits of meditation, mindfulness, and self-care.

                      You already know that you need some kind of recovery strategy to deal with your stressful life.

                      But what you may not know are all of the sneaky ways that society, our upbringing and our high achieving nature, and so many other factors contribute to our risk of burnout.

                      That, my friend, is what we talk about here on this podcast because you can't do something about a situation that you're not aware of, right?

                      So if you're ready to get out of the pattern of burning out, feeling better, only to burn out again, it's time for us to shut the light on the truth about burnout.

                      So let's start off by just talking about the origin of this work-life balance term.

                       

                      Avery - 02:02

                      This concept emerged in the late 20th century during the 1970s and 80s thanks to Generation X, which you can learn more about on the episode that I have that talks about the generation gap.

                      The phrase originated in the UK, in the United Kingdom, reflecting a growing awareness of the need to balance professional responsibilities with personal life.

                      During this period, societal and economic conditions were evolving rapidly.

                      The rise of dual income households, increased participation of women in the workforce, and the shift towards a service-oriented economy.

                      Really heighten the pressures on individuals to juggle work and home life.

                      An originally work-life balance referred to the ability to divide one's time and energy between work commitments and personal pursuits.

                      And it was in response to these long hours and these intense work demands that characterized these corporate cultures.

                       

                      Avery - 02:57

                      The aim really was to prevent burnout and to ensure people could maintain fulfilling their personal lives alongside their careers.

                      Back then, achieving work-life balance often involved setting clear boundaries between work and home.

                      For example, people would adhere to strict work hours, ensuring that they left the office on time, to spend evenings with family, They would be able to turn off and leave their work behind.

                      Weekends were reserved for leisure and relaxation, completely free from work-related tasks or anything that would remind you of work, and some companies began offering those flexible working hours and part-time positions to help employees better manage their responsibilities.

                      This historical context shows that while the term work-life balance might seem like it's more modern, the struggle to achieve it has deep roots that are driven by significant societal shifts and the persistent need to set boundaries for our personal wellbeing.

                      And we all know that boundaries are hard.

                      So this idea that work-life balance has shifted dramatically over the years is and maybe it's just the perception of it in our cultures and especially in the nonprofit world.

                       

                      Avery - 04:07

                      And what once felt achievable is now often seeming like an unattainable myth.

                      Our work-life dynamics have changed so much with technology playing a huge role because we're always connected.

                      Emails, messages and notifications follow us everywhere, even in our downtime.

                      And the expectation to be constantly available and productive has become the norm.

                      Even if you try to avoid that culture in your nonprofit, there's still that expectation, also the FOMO, the fear of missing out on something important, that really keeps your employees engaged, at least mentally, even during their off hours.

                      And so these increasing demands really impact our time and our energy.

                      And so this brings us to the myth that individuals alone can manage work-life balance on their own.

                       

                      Avery - 04:56

                      Because modern discussions often place the burden on us as an individual to balance everything through better time management or personal discipline.

                      But this ignores the bigger picture, the societal and systemic constraints that are making achieving this balance nearly impossible.

                      So again, with the economic pressures, with job insecurity and the ever-increasing workplace demands, especially in the non-profit world as you're working with maybe limited funding and smaller staff.

                      This balance can be really elusive and so in the nonprofit sector again these challenges are even more pronounced because the passion for the mission that your nonprofit has often leads people to work longer to have higher stress and that's compounded again by the limited resources and the high

                      demand that you have for your services especially in this economy and it's clear that achieving work-life balance isn't just about our individual efforts It does require systemic changes.

                      So even non-profit organizations like yours need to recognize and address these structural issues to help create environments that support rather than hinder our well-being.

                      And this is something that I work with different non-profits about all the time.

                       

                      Avery - 06:06

                      Because there's really, we've got to look at it from the top down as well as the bottom up.

                      When we approach it from both sides that's where change really happens so much more consistently and so much faster.

                      So when we're looking at how to help your organization better support work-life balance, we have to look at things from a wider structural perspective.

                      Because for instance, employees in the nonprofit sector often experience high levels of stress due to that deep commitment to the mission combined with limited resources and high demands that we've been talking about.

                      And so this can lead to feelings of being overwhelmed.

                      In a lot of the employee engagement surveys that I do prior to coming in and working with the team, I see a lot of people that feel undervalued and feel like they're working extra And not being recognized or even noticed for the effort that they're putting in, not to the degree that they feel like

                      they're deserving.

                       

                      Avery - 07:00

                      And this is frustrating for some leaders to hear because they feel like they're doing so much already to try and make sure that people know that they're valued and that they're appreciated for the work that they're doing.

                      But it's learning how to really celebrate those things in a way that's meaningful and that's something that we talk about in the workshops as well.

                      And so when these people are feeling undervalued this just makes mental health issues even more prevalent and really just drains their fulfillment energy which leads to burnout.

                      And so all of these challenges that we're facing really just show that achieving work-life balance isn't just about the personal effort on the individual level, on the frontline staff level.

                      It requires more broad changes in how we operate and how we support our staff.

                      So creating environments that prioritize well-being and that provide realistic workloads and proper support because I know that sometimes deadlines happen and you really just have to scramble to get things together but the proper support is really crucial for fostering this work-life balance for

                      your employees.

                       

                      Avery - 08:11

                      And rethinking work-life balance in the nonprofit sector requires us to acknowledge and address its unique challenges and the deep passion and commitment and drive that really pushes nonprofits work does lead to burnout if it's not being managed.

                      And so employees that are deeply invested in their missions, frequently working long hours, trying to meet the high demands and limited resources, all of this dedication, of course we can see that it's admirable, but we also know that it is detrimental to their well-being.

                      And this means that you're going to have more absenteeism, you're going to have higher turnover rates, Increased recruitment costs.

                      All of these things do trickle down into the bottom line as well.

                      And I know that you care about your team.

                      You do want to have them feel better, have good mental health, feel really well supported.

                      So this is where we need to again look at the systemic issues.

                       

                      Avery - 09:10

                      And the good news is that there's actually some small changes that can have a huge impact.

                      And this is what we talk about when I meet with the leadership teams is we talk about the different strategies that we can use to either address some of the sources of stress and work-life balance that are being thrown off for people if we can do something to fix them.

                      But for all of the things that we can't do something to fix, Like inflation and funding and how hard it is to find people to work for you right now.

                      All of those things are something that we need to learn how to manage and so this is where we're approaching it from a different perspective and this is where meeting with the leadership team And then implementing what we decide on with the frontline staff can be huge because leadership plays a key

                      role in modeling and encouraging a culture that values balance and well-being.

                      And this is where leading by visible example can actually be a very powerful way for your leadership team to show the rest of the workforce that this is what balance looks like and this is how you do it even in the role that you're in.

                      And so really it's about understanding the complexities of your organization and the obstacles that you're facing and to better address your organization's approach to work-life balance.

                       

                      Avery - 10:35

                      I encourage you to take the organization burnout risk assessment quiz which you can find on my website thetruthaboutburnout.com And it just walks you through a couple of questions.

                      I think there's 10 questions in total and it helps you determine the burnout risk for your organization and that'll just show you how much you need to prioritize fixing the work-life balance structural issues in your organization.

                      So go ahead and check that out.

                      That's at thetruthaboutburnout.com and if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to me.

                      I'm here for you.

                      Hold please.

                      I know that these end-of-podcast blurbs are generally really repetitive and only say, make sure you're subscribed.

                       

                      Avery - 11:18

                      But this isn't like that.

                      Today, I have a little habit challenge for you.

                      Before you sit down to do your next work block, I encourage you to take 5 slow deep breaths for 5 seconds on the inhale and 5 seconds on the exhale.

                      Doing this helps us turn off our stress switch which then regains access to our higher level thinking brain which is something that we talk about in the free course that's included in the Productivity Partner app which helps you design your pre-work ritual.

                      And inside that productivity partner app, each day there's a mini habit challenge where I take 60 seconds to explain something like this that you can do in your day to become even more effective and impactful as a high achiever.

                      You can try it for one week for free by going to thetruthaboutburnout.com.

                      Give nothing to lose and everything to gain.

                       

                      Avery - 12:08

                      Go give it a try.


                       

                      13 min
                    • Navigating Burnout: Family Vision and Energy Management with Joseph & Melissa Neary

                      Joseph - 00:00

                      Okay, one day we're gonna conquer the world, the next day is like, don't bother me, I'm not getting out of bed.

                      So it's just like learning how to do all this manic swing of energy, not energy, not energy.

                       

                      Avery - 00:13

                      Hi, I'm Avery Thatcher, a former ICU nurse, and this is not your standard stress management podcast where we just focus on those band-aid solutions like the benefits of meditation, mindfulness, and self-care.

                      You already know that you need some kind of recovery strategy to deal with your stressful life.

                      But what you may not know are all of the sneaky ways that society, our upbringing and our high achieving nature and so many other factors contribute to our risk of burnout.

                      That, my friend, is what we talk about here on this podcast because you can't do something about a situation that you're not aware of, right?

                      So if you're ready to get out of the pattern of burning out, feeling better, only to burn out again, it's time for us to shut the light on the truth about burnout.

                      Okay I am so excited today because this is my first ever double guest episode and I feel when I first met Joseph, I just connected with him right away and felt like we had so much to share and talk about and then when he shared about his partner I was just like okay I think I need to talk to both of

                      you because I feel like Melissa and I have a lot in common which is both nice because then you have someone you can talk to but also sad because he knows what somebody else is going through So welcome Joseph and Melissa.

                       

                      Melissa - 01:32

                      It's so nice to be here.

                       

                      Joseph - 01:33

                      Yeah it's really a pleasure and Avery you're doing a great work you know just in the community of professionals I think the more we can talk about the subject and how we can support it's just our own careers and ambitions but also kind of a holistic life approach is really good.

                       

                      Avery - 01:48

                      Absolutely and I'm sure we're going to talk a little bit about this Melissa but I feel like there are some skills that I was forced to learn That would have been so much more helpful earlier on, the like energy pacing and some of the other components.

                      You're just like, well, why didn't I learn that sooner?

                       

                      Melissa - 02:07

                      Yeah, it's been it's been a long road, lots of learning, that's for sure.

                       

                      Avery - 02:13

                      Yeah, absolutely.

                      So tell me a little bit about that road for you.

                      What does your journey look like?

                       

                      Melissa - 02:18

                      So I was diagnosed with my first autoimmune disorder disease.

                      I've heard it a lot of different ways.

                      When I was seven and so I was in elementary school and this is like a month of school and it wasn't at the time it didn't feel like a huge deal because it was just psoriasis and so nobody really got it besides like oh you've got dry skin or like that's kind of what they assumed and it took me years

                      as a child to realize How it was affecting me outside of like what you could see that I was more tired than the other kids or that I got sick a lot more.

                      Little things like that.

                      So then my second autoimmune disease showed up in high school and I was 15 and that's when I got rheumatoid arthritis and that one felt a lot harder.

                      Because I was a competitive pianist.

                       

                      Melissa - 03:33

                      So that was the first time that it severely affected my life because everything hurt.

                      I couldn't play sports, I wasn't active.

                      And I did cut back on piano.

                      I ended up, it ended up being the reason that I didn't major in piano in college or like these different life choices that I had to spin around that.

                      And that was pretty much it until COVID hit.

                      And as you know, stress just makes another one pop up.

                      And it was lockdown.

                       

                      Melissa - 04:14

                      We had become foster parents right before lockdown.

                      And so we had a little baby and then we started homeschooling because our older five weren't doing really well with the online school like at all because we have some other kids with learning disabilities from adoption.

                      And that's when the Graves' disease popped up.

                      And that one affected, affected everything, but I'd say that my energy was the biggest one.

                      Energy and brain fog, those are the two things I remember.

                      Like, all of a sudden, I couldn't remember what I was doing.

                      Like, I would be halfway through a sentence and just lose it and that was the first time for me.

                       

                      Melissa - 05:01

                      Like, the brain fog hadn't showed up before and it showed up with the Graves' disease and that was really bad.

                      Plus, you know, everything comes with Graves' disease.

                      I had the hyper... when your weight is too... Hyperthyroidism?

                      Yes, but I... metabolism, thank you.

                      Look at this, we're playing trades over here.

                       

                      Avery - 05:26

                      That's it, brain fog in action.

                      I recognize, oh good.

                       

                      Melissa - 05:31

                      Yeah, so the hypermetabolism made my anxiety super bad.

                       

                      Avery - 05:38

                      Oh, of course.

                       

                      Melissa - 05:40

                      And I didn't realize that would do that.

                      Like, it was like I was being attacked by a lion all the time.

                      So since then, I've made some major life changes and got a medication.

                      Like, I'm a true believer of both.

                      And so, Diarrhea is in a good place.

                      Obviously, it doesn't, like, go away, but it's in remission right now.

                      So, at this point, I'm trying to just not make anything happen.

                       

                      Melissa - 06:09

                      Does that make sense?

                       

                      Avery - 06:11

                      Absolutely.

                       

                      Melissa - 06:11

                      It's like constant fear of like, okay, if I get too stressed, I already have three.

                      Like the chances that another autoimmune issue pops up for me are very high if I get too stressed for an extended period of time.

                      Like it does take a while, but I'm trying.

                      Like we do have a lot of kids and we do whatever happens.

                      So there's a lot of energy pacing.

                      I still suffer with chronic fatigue, obviously the brain fog as we've already seen.

                      And that's kind of where we're at.

                       

                      Joseph - 06:44

                      I think there were a few things she left out there, so I'll toot her horn for her.

                      She is a mother of nine, so she has three biological children and then now I guess it's six adopted.

                      We did have four foster children.

                      So it's talking about a high achieving woman.

                      When she was in college and she stopped her job at the math department, you have to hire three people to replace her.

                      So what she can accomplish in five minutes will probably take me about an hour.

                      She's a hyper-efficient, hyper-focused, can get a lot of stuff done, amazing planner, hence why we're even able to have this large family.

                       

                      Joseph - 07:26

                      Because I'm often in la-la land, you know, creative soul over here.

                      And she's thinking about what has to get done and then we can get stuff done because she does that.

                      She was top of her class in high school, you know, she had a full ride scholarship to the university that we had.

                      So all around like she gets stuff done, she's ambitious.

                      Conditioning, just get stuff done, meets up with these kind of consecutive walls of chronic disease and then burnout has been kind of the cycle we've gone through several times.

                      We've learned how to like Okay.

                      One day we're going to conquer the world.

                       

                      Joseph - 08:12

                      The next day is like, don't bother me.

                      I'm not getting out of bed.

                      So it's just like learning how to deal with this like manic swing of energy, not energy, not energy.

                      Plus we have kids and oh, guess what?

                      We're both sick.

                      You know, like that's, that's been some of the serious, um, difficulties we've had to face along with, you know, just job career changes and things of that nature.

                       

                      Multiple speakers - 08:36

                      So I think that'd be interesting to look at some of those I think my biggest challenge currently is not overdoing it when I do feel good.

                       

                      Avery - 08:48

                      I hear you.

                      It's so tough to rein in the high achiever side of you and be like, hey, I need to like save up some of the energy for today so that I still have some tomorrow.

                      Yeah, so tell me what that dynamic is kind of like.

                      Like when, because obviously like Joseph shared and I loved hearing him talk just about you and how you could see how proud he is.

                      Like he's definitely such a wonderful supportive partner you can see.

                      So tell me a little bit about how that shift continues to go and like what was the hardest part for your high achieving side to accept once all of these chronic illnesses started piling on?

                       

                      Melissa - 09:32

                      Oh, there's two.

                      A, because I'm very much a person that's like, I will do anything I want.

                      I don't care what it is.

                      I can learn how to do it, I will do it, and I will become proficient at it.

                      I don't want to be great, but I will become proficient.

                      Like, I will do that.

                      And learning that there's actual things that I will never be able to do is frustrating.

                       

                      Melissa - 09:58

                      I don't like that.

                      And then the things that are within my spectrum of achievability have started taking twice as long to get there.

                      And I don't like that either.

                       

                      Avery - 10:12

                      Oh my goodness.

                      Like I said before we hit record, like I feel so seen right now because everything you're sharing, Melissa, are things that I've talked to my partner about, I've journaled about, I've gotten a therapy over, and it's just like, it's this loss of who you saw yourself as and what you saw yourself as

                      capable of.

                       

                      Melissa - 10:32

                      It's hard because I'm like good at not comparing myself to others.

                      I've worked really hard on that, but I will compare myself to my old self.

                      And I'm like, well, that was me, but obviously we're not the same person that we were, you know, 10 years ago when we were doing this, or even 5 years ago when we were able to do this.

                      And, like, trying to simultaneously improve myself because I'm so goal-oriented, but, like, accept exactly where I am no matter what it looks like that day.

                      That self-compassion has been really tough.

                       

                      Avery - 11:12

                      Of course.

                      So Joseph, how do you see all of that kind of integrating?

                      How does that play out for you?

                       

                      Joseph - 11:18

                      I think the biggest transition that I've had to go through is learning and it's actually the same lesson.

                      It's kind of learning the same lesson she's had to learn about herself but from the outside.

                      So for example, we can get really excited.

                      I'm trying to think of a specific example that we can get into.

                      This one's back from college and this was kind of the first time I started to really learn about this.

                      And so for all you guys out there, I'm sure you can kind of relate up this.

                      You know, you think you've landed on the perfect date idea.

                       

                      Joseph - 12:00

                      Like, okay, this is going to be good.

                      Like, she's going to love this.

                      I was taking her to, it was a, uh, we were going to a ballet.

                      It was like, I think it was like the Swan Lake or something.

                      And I'm like, she's going to love this.

                      It's culture, you know, we're going to feel so sophisticated and we go, we're all excited and we're sitting down, we're feeling good about ourselves.

                      And then boom, the wall hits.

                       

                      Joseph - 12:31

                      And she is just tired, can't hold up her eyes.

                      And she's like, can we just go now?

                      We weren't in half.

                      I think halfway through the show.

                      And it was like, I had a hard time like seeing like, wait, what's going on here?

                      Like.

                      We had this great show.

                       

                      Joseph - 12:55

                      I mean, we used to stay up kissing and making out like just last year.

                      Like we made two o'clock easy, you know?

                       

                      Avery - 13:04

                      The embarrassment for Melissa right now, the red that's creeping in.

                      It's a good thing we don't share video.

                       

                      Joseph - 13:11

                      And all of a sudden, like we can't make it past nine o'clock, you know?

                      And so I think that was like one of the first, the first times I went, okay, there's variability in this.

                      Another incident is when we were both really excited about having a foreign exchange student live with us.

                      You know, this was going to be super exciting, new culture, we're going to learn about new culture, the kids are going to like have like kind of like this older sister and from another country sort of deal.

                      And again, we hit that wall, you know, a couple of weeks in and all that excitement, all that energy, it's just sales are gone.

                      You know, there's no win in the sales.

                      And so then going through, being okay going through the work to undo all of that.

                       

                      Joseph - 13:58

                      And so I think for me, it's learning to be present with the person I'm with right now and just accepting wherever she's at.

                      But also like, I've learned to also think, okay, she's high energy right now.

                      And something I've had to become better at and this, you know, the lesson I'm still learning is when she's high energy to make sure I'm all the way there, Get done, done.

                      And then be willing to step up when it's low energy and just manage expectations at the moment.

                      I haven't always been perfect at that.

                      Sometimes I, you know, go off and I'm doing some other distracting activity when she has energy to get something done and that kind of creates friction because she's expecting my help to get stuff done.

                      She has energy, let's do it.

                       

                      Joseph - 14:47

                      And it's kind of energy is like this scarce resource now that we have to kind of plan around.

                      I probably sleep way better now than ever because we get to bed on time and we make sure that sleep is sacred.

                       

                      Melissa - 15:01

                      We primarily sleep in this house and we're in bed by like 8.30. What happened to us?

                       

                      Avery - 15:09

                      Isn't it brilliant though?

                       

                      Multiple speakers - 15:12

                      My partner and I always joke that we're 100 because we eat dinner at 4.30 and we're in bed by 8.30. And with nine kids, that's, you know, but it's almost militant, you know, like we have to get, and that means learning to say no to things.

                       

                      Melissa - 15:27

                      Yeah.

                      We say no to a lot of things.

                      Things that we'd like to do, like I was invited to book club last week and I'm like, Oh, it starts at eight.

                      Like, I'm sorry.

                      I will not be there.

                       

                      Joseph - 15:40

                      We're both heavily involved in our church and community.

                      So sometimes.

                      They say, all right, men, support your wives to go out and do the activity.

                      And like, she won't be there.

                      It starts at eight o'clock.

                      Like, who does that?

                       

                      Avery - 15:55

                      Yes, though.

                      Yeah, I think it just changes your perspective on things because most people They generally go through thinking that time is the most valuable resource, but when you experience something like this, like you talked about Joseph, energy is actually the most valuable resource.

                       

                      Melissa - 16:16

                      No, and I know there's people with chronic conditions who have to do this so much more than I do, but I do still have to calculate in my head if this energy expenditure is worth it.

                      So take today for example, we took One week off of everything for school, piano, everything.

                      So I was like, okay, we're going to get this house organized.

                      But literally I'm trying to decide like, okay, do I go to the gym for my body or do I clean out this closet?

                      They're going to be the same.

                      Like, and sometimes one wins out and sometimes the other, and I know there's people who have to do it.

                      We're like, oh, do I take a shower or not?

                       

                      Melissa - 16:54

                      And it's rare that it's that bad.

                      It has happened, but not recently because I think we've gotten really good at figuring out how to work things.

                      But there's a lot of like, okay, if we go to the aquarium this morning, I have to set aside an hour because I will need a nap.

                      Like, because that's a really high energy with the kids, like different things like that.

                      So there's, there's a lot of mental calculations going on, especially when I wake up and I can tell what kind of day it's going to be.

                       

                      Avery - 17:28

                      Yeah.

                      And I feel like, like logically, we know that this is helpful.

                      And we can see that it's helpful for our physical energy, but it also drains our mental energy that much faster and then leads to more brain fog.

                      And I often say that my brain is like Swiss cheese.

                      It's full of holes and things just like fall out of it.

                      And my partner will be like, we talked about this yesterday.

                      And I'm just like, okay, tell me again.

                       

                      Avery - 17:50

                      Cause I don't know.

                      I've never heard this before in my life.

                       

                      Melissa - 17:53

                      Reminders and alarms on my phone.

                      Is concerning.

                      Where is concerning but also helpful.

                      Yes, exactly.

                      Well, that's why I do it because I will literally forget to get my kids from school.

                      Like it's not that it just things happen and I forget that it's this day or that this should be happening.

                      So we have alarms that go off nine or ten times a day for all the things.

                       

                      Melissa - 18:22

                      I don't sit in the oven for the stove for Because I will forget to check.

                      Yeah.

                       

                      Avery - 18:30

                      Yeah, absolutely.

                       

                      Joseph - 18:31

                      If I could say a hopeful thing here that... She still is accomplishing a lot.

                      Like, meaning maybe not quantity, but quality.

                      It makes you focus on quality because you can't squander the quantity of energy.

                      I mean, she's a mother of nine kids.

                      And our family is really important to us.

                      I think of, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10 of biologically driven women who want to be mothers, she's probably at a 10. You know, there's no right range.

                      I'm just saying, of things that are really important to her, they don't slide off the radar.

                       

                      Joseph - 19:12

                      She's honed in, she's focused in, so I would say she's still very high in cheating on the things that matter most to her, but it forces you To identify what matters most to you.

                      And so I think that, and again, as someone who tries to be supportive, that helps me as well, because it clearly identifies for me what's most important in my spouse's life, and it helps me prioritize.

                      It helps me with my own habits as well.

                       

                      Melissa - 19:49

                      I think the way that you Support me the most.

                      A super involved partner with the case.

                      Like I would say that this is equal.

                      He does all the bedtimes.

                      He does all the baths.

                      He's like, you're there.

                      You cook breakfast every morning.

                       

                      Melissa - 20:06

                      All that good stuff.

                      But every Sunday, he will meal prep my meals for me.

                      So that I, because I have been following a low inflammation diet for years now.

                      And those are hard to cook for.

                      And he will, he'll be like, okay, what are we having this week?

                      I do take care of the shopping.

                      So like that's kind of my end, but he will make them all on Sundays.

                       

                      Melissa - 20:32

                      So he'll cook three or four meals that fit everything that we're supposed to do.

                      And that's huge, huge for not having to spend my energy on the making or the decision-making.

                      Both of those, which are tough.

                       

                      Avery - 20:49

                      Yeah, definitely.

                      So you've given us a couple of strategies.

                      What other things do you do, Melissa, for yourself to try and make the most out of the energy that you have as a high achiever?

                       

                      Melissa - 21:02

                      It's like, I almost have a protocol for every type of day.

                      When I wake up, like if I can tell it's a really low energy day, I'm like, okay, we need to change things.

                      It's okay to have a little bit more screen time.

                      It's okay to do, I still try to get out with the kids every day, but it'll change to like going to a park and just sitting on a bench and making sure no one fails themselves.

                      Or I try to stay away from caffeine because it does make things worse overall, so it's usually not worth it.

                      But some days I do use it because I'm like, we just have to get through.

                      When I'm high energy, I still struggle to not overdo it.

                       

                      Melissa - 21:49

                      I really do.

                      And it'll be like seven hours later when I've completely crashed, it'll take the next day of not getting off the couch to recover from that.

                      So I'm trying to take more rest.

                      I've gotten really good this last year of when our little boys nap and it's quiet time for everybody and I get at least a solid hour of rest.

                      Instead of working through naps because I feel like, oh, I can get so much done, they're asleep.

                       

                      Avery - 22:23

                      So what does rest actually look like for you now?

                       

                      Melissa - 22:25

                      I've had to work on that too, because it isn't scrolling through Instagram, which is what I want to do.

                      It's very much like setting everything down and actually trying to sleep.

                      Like legitimate nap.

                      It doesn't always happen, but I do try to always try.

                      And that's tough too because I want to read my book, but it's still resting and it doesn't make the same difference, it really doesn't.

                       

                      Avery - 22:57

                      Now I'm with you.

                      One of the ways that I often have to rest in the middle of the day is literally with earplugs in the dark with my feet up the wall and you just lay there solid and just try not to do anything or think of anything.

                      And I remember early on when I figured that this actually worked for me.

                      It was just so hard to commit to because it was so boring.

                      You know, but now that I know how effective it is Because I'm fighting it less, I need less time to do it, depending on how I'm trying to recover and what I'm recovering from.

                      So I think, yeah, it's just like you said, it's a learning curve and it's learning levels of self-compassion that you didn't even know were required for life.

                       

                      Melissa - 23:44

                      I've always used my accomplishments and my worth as a single unit.

                      That's just how my brain worked.

                      And that worked for me for a while.

                      It really did, like there was no problem there.

                      And that's why I didn't prioritize rest because I quote unquote was not getting anything done.

                      And so it's taken me a very long time to just sit there.

                      And like yesterday, my mom happened to come over right when it was like at the quiet time.

                       

                      Melissa - 24:24

                      So if someone's listening right now and relating to what you've shared, especially with all those mental gymnastics,

                       

                      Avery - 24:54

                      What would you want them to know?

                      What would you want to tell them?

                       

                      Melissa - 24:58

                      It's taken me a really long time to accept that putting myself as the priority actually helps my family the most.

                      Legitimately.

                      Meaning taking the extra time to eat the food that supports me, making sure I have a nap every day even if the kids wanted to go do something right then.

                      Like it will help our family more if I put myself first.

                      And it's taken days of putting that to the test to actually prove it.

                      But I had to put it to the test first.

                      And as the scientist I am, we were going to make it happen.

                       

                      Avery - 25:41

                      I love it.

                      So then Joseph, if somebody was listening right now and they're relating to your situation, what would you want them to know?

                       

                      Joseph - 25:51

                      I would say it's better to process disappointment than suppress it.

                      Because when you suppress disappointment, it leads to resentment.

                      I think being able to process resentment and move beyond it to acceptance.

                      Those are the five stages of grief.

                      Let yourself to grieve the change of expectations.

                      And also I think that leads to more because once you can kind of get out of process out of your own emotions and be able to emotionally connect to another person it allows you to allows for that connection to happen allows for love and gratitude because if you're so blinded by your own resentment

                      you'll never see how much sacrifice the other individual is doing And I feel like when you and I, and it does come back, but I feel like we've gotten to acceptance, which has opened up problem solving.

                       

                      Melissa - 27:04

                      I was angry, I couldn't see a way to fix things.

                      But when I'm in acceptance and open to things that before I wouldn't have considered because I don't want to be one of those people who has to do that or who does this, it improved my life significantly once I figured out that I wanted to figure it out.

                       

                      Avery - 27:30

                      Beautifully said.

                      Beautifully said.

                      So just before we wrap things up and Joseph I still want to hear a little bit about your podcast but is there anything that you would really like to share with the person listening right now that we haven't talked about yet?

                       

                      Melissa - 27:45

                      We talked about this a little bit but for me the biggest lesson has been that a human has worth by existing and they are No more worthy than they ever are by any single action they ever do.

                       

                      Joseph - 28:07

                      Something similar to that is just focus on the values that you want to live and you'll value your actions.

                      It's always like a North Star.

                      If I want to be a loving husband, it's not whether we went to the whole ballet or whatever it may be.

                      Focus on the value that you want to be and your worth will always be right there.

                       

                      Avery - 28:30

                      Beautiful.

                      And so, again, just tied into that, we can logically say those things to ourselves, but there has to be some work to get our emotional body on the same page.

                      So I think that's just such a beautiful starting point for people, though, is to have that north star of where they're kind of working towards.

                      So that's beautiful.

                      So just before we wrap things up, I would love to hear for you to share, I guess, a little bit about your podcast, Joseph, because I feel like we have some similar overlaps and I know that there'll be people listening that want to listen to yours.

                       

                      Joseph - 29:04

                      Yeah, so mine's the Emotional Man Weekly podcast, though it hasn't been weekly since we've been working on a new season.

                      What I primarily focus is the intersection between building companies and building families.

                      So what does it look like to scale your company while still being present?

                      You know, and it's not just, it's at the very basis, it's not about time management.

                      It's about learning what, how balance is created by understanding what you value and building off of that because that way the whole ecosystem will work.

                      The decisions are easier to manage and instead of placing your value on net worth or how much time you're with your families, it's right there with where your functionality meets your values.

                      And so come on over, give it a listen if you're a business owner or a spouse of a business owner and you want to learn how to live a balanced life.

                       

                      Avery - 30:04

                      Absolutely, and I know that we do have a number of entrepreneurs listening, but even if you're someone that is just struggling with work-life balance between your career and this, the episodes on this podcast are fantastic, so I would highly recommend you go and have a listen.

                      We're going to link to all of that in the show notes as well.

                      So thank you so much Joseph and Melissa for your vulnerability and For sharing your connection and just your experience because I think I've heard this ages ago on another podcast interview that I did and they said that your story can become someone else's survival guide and I really feel that's

                      what you've laid out here today so thank you for that.

                       

                      Melissa - 30:45

                      Thank you so much for having us.

                       

                      Multiple speakers - 30:47

                      You're doing great work.

                       

                      Avery - 30:52

                      Uh, excuse me, one second please before you skip on to the next podcast.

                      If you struggle with getting caught in the weeds of day to day little things that you need to get done, you're going to want to try our daily planning one sheet.

                      It's completely free and we have both a digital version and a printable PDF version.

                      This daily planning one sheet helps you get your thoughts together, set intentions for how you want to show up, organize your tasks, determine your priorities for the day, and give you a tiny habit challenge for the day to help you get the most out of it.

                      Interested?

                      Go to thetruthaboutburnout.com slash planner to get that free download.



                       

                      32 min
                    • Recognize and Combat Burnout in Nonprofit Organizations: Essential Strategies for Sustainable Success

                      Burnout can have significant physical, emotional, and psychological effects, ranging from chronic stress and exhaustion to depression and anxiety. By recognizing the signs of burnout early on and taking proactive steps to address them, nonprofit organizations can:

                      • preserve the well-being of staff members, 
                      • maintain productivity and morale, and 
                      • prevent turnover. 
                      • By recognizing the signs of burnout and taking proactive steps to address them, organizations can create a positive and supportive work environment that enables them to fulfill their missions effectively and sustainably. However, since awareness is always the first step, here are some things to look out for to know if your nonprofit is experiencing the symptoms of burnout.

                        7 Signs Your Nonprofit Organization Is Experiencing Staff Burnout
                        1. High Turnover Rates: One of the most evident signs of burnout within a nonprofit organization is high turnover rates. When employees frequently leave their positions, it often indicates underlying issues such as excessive workloads, lack of support, or a toxic work environment.
                        2. Decreased Productivity: Burnout can significantly impact productivity levels. If you notice a decline in the efficiency and quality of work produced by your team members, it may be a red flag that burnout is taking its toll.
                        3. Increased Absenteeism: When employees are experiencing burnout, they may be more likely to call in sick or take unplanned time off. Keep an eye on absenteeism rates within your organization, as they can provide valuable insights into the overall well-being of your staff.
                        4. Poor Morale: Burnout can lead to a decrease in morale among employees. If you sense a general feeling of disengagement or apathy within your team, it may be a sign that burnout is prevalent and impacting their satisfaction with their work.
                        5. Heightened Conflict and Gossip: Burnout can fuel tension and conflict among team members. Pay attention to any increase in interpersonal conflicts, gossip, or friction within your organization, as it could indicate that stress levels are reaching a boiling point.
                        6. Lack of Work-Life Balance: Nonprofit employees are often passionate about their work, but this dedication can sometimes lead to an imbalance between work and personal life. If you notice that your staff members are consistently working long hours or sacrificing their personal time, it may be a sign that burnout is looming.
                        7. Physical and Emotional Exhaustion: Lastly, keep an eye out for signs of physical and emotional exhaustion among your team members. Symptoms such as fatigue, irritability, and emotional withdrawal can all point to burnout and should be taken seriously.
                        8. Now that we've outlined the signs of burnout, let's delve into why nonprofit organizations are particularly susceptible to this issue.

                          Reasons Why Nonprofit Organizations are More Susceptible to Burnout

                          Nonprofit organizations are more susceptible to burnout for several reasons, stemming from the unique challenges they face in fulfilling their missions while often operating with limited resources.

                          1. Nonprofits are typically driven by passionate individuals who are deeply committed to their cause. While this passion is admirable, it can also lead to a culture of overwork and self-sacrifice, as employees and volunteers feel compelled to do whatever it takes to make a difference. This intense dedication can quickly lead to burnout, as individuals neglect their own well-being in pursuit of the organization's goals.
                          2. Nonprofit organizations often operate on tight budgets and limited staffing, requiring employees to take on multiple roles and responsibilities. This can result in overwhelming workloads and constant pressure to do more with less. Without adequate support and resources, employees can quickly become overwhelmed and exhausted, contributing to burnout.
                          3. The nature of nonprofit work can be emotionally taxing, as individuals are often exposed to the challenges and hardships faced by the communities they serve. Whether it's working with marginalized populations, addressing social injustices, or responding to humanitarian crises, nonprofit employees frequently encounter difficult and emotionally draining situations. Over time, this exposure can take a toll on their mental and emotional well-being, increasing their vulnerability to burnout.
                          4. The nonprofit sector is no stranger to uncertainty and instability. Funding fluctuations, changes in political landscapes, and external pressures can all impact the day-to-day operations of nonprofit organizations, creating additional stress for employees. The constant need to adapt and navigate these challenges can lead to feelings of frustration and disillusionment, further exacerbating burnout.
                          5. Recognizing these challenges and implementing strategies to support employee well-being is crucial in preventing burnout and sustaining the important work of nonprofit organizations.

                            How to Fix Burnout in Your Nonprofit Organization

                            Addressing burnout within nonprofit organizations requires a multifaceted approach that involves policy changes, leadership initiatives, and frontline staff engagement.

                            Policy changes are essential in creating supportive work environments that prioritize employee well-being. This may involve implementing policies such as flexible work arrangements, reasonable workload expectations, and access to mental health resources. By establishing clear guidelines and procedures to prevent burnout, organizations can create a culture that values the health and resilience of its workforce.

                            Leadership plays a crucial role in fostering a culture of support and accountability within nonprofit organizations. Leaders must prioritize staff well-being and actively promote open communication, feedback, and collaboration. By modeling healthy work practices and demonstrating empathy and understanding, leaders can cultivate a sense of trust and empowerment among their team members. Additionally, leaders should be proactive in addressing issues of burnout and providing resources and support to those in need.

                            However, addressing burnout cannot rest solely on the shoulders of leadership. Frontline staff members are often the ones most directly impacted by burnout and are in the best position to identify its causes and effects. Their input and participation are invaluable in developing effective strategies for prevention and mitigation. Encouraging staff involvement in decision-making processes, providing opportunities for peer support and mentorship, and fostering a culture of self-care and work-life balance are all ways to empower frontline staff in addressing burnout.

                            Addressing burnout early is crucial for nonprofit organizations to maintain their effectiveness and sustainability. Waiting until burnout reaches a critical point can have serious consequences for both individual staff members and the organization as a whole. By working together to create supportive work environments and prioritize employee well-being, organizations can ensure the sustainability of their missions and the fulfillment of their goals.

                            Why You Can’t Wait Any Longer to Address Burnout At Your NonProfit

                            Addressing burnout early can help prevent a decline in productivity and morale within the organization. Burnout often leads to decreased motivation, engagement, and job satisfaction among staff members, which can impact the quality of work produced and the overall effectiveness of the organization. By addressing burnout proactively, organizations can maintain a positive and supportive work environment that fosters productivity, creativity, and innovation.

                            Early intervention is essential for preventing turnover and retaining talented staff members. Burnout is a leading cause of employee turnover, as individuals who feel overworked, unappreciated, or unsupported are more likely to seek employment elsewhere. High turnover rates can be detrimental to nonprofit organizations, leading to increased recruitment and training costs, disruptions in service delivery, and loss of institutional knowledge and expertise. By addressing burnout early and demonstrating a commitment to supporting staff well-being, organizations can reduce turnover and retain their most valuable assets.

                             

                            12 min
                          6. Rediscovering Inspiration: Caroline Biesalski’s Journey Through Burnout

                            Caroline - 00:00

                            So I was on a cruise I was super excited but I was also like I just want to sleep all I want to do is get on that ship and sleep three days or so and I think these are signals as well um yeah you know more about that I don't so yeah this is the beginning of feeling of burnout Mm-hmm and you

                             

                            Avery - 00:24

                            touched on the most important point is that like we've mentioned before on the podcast that burnout is not a stress management issue so much as it's an energy management issue and that's why when we're in burnt out we feel like we just want to sleep.

                            It's like we can't do too much beyond that so that's totally normal.

                            Hi, I'm Avery Thatcher, a former ICU nurse, and this is not your standard stress management podcast where we just focus on those band-aid solutions like the benefits of meditation, mindfulness, and self-care.

                            You already know that you need some kind of recovery strategy to deal with your stressful life.

                            But what you may not know are all of the sneaky ways that society, our upbringing and our high achieving nature, and so many other factors contribute to our risk of burnout.

                            That, my friend, is what we talk about here on this podcast because you can't do something about a situation that you're not aware of, right?

                            So if you're ready to get out of the pattern of burning out, feeling better, only to burn out again, it's time for us to shed the light on the truth about burnout.

                             

                            Avery - 01:32

                            All right, I am very excited to talk to Caroline.

                            I was a guest on her podcast, but she's going to tell us about it a bit later, not too long ago.

                            And I'm just really excited to hear her story because she shared that she actually didn't realize that she had burnt out until she started listening to some of the episodes here.

                            So welcome, Caroline.

                            Tell us a little bit about you and what you're doing.

                             

                            Caroline - 01:58

                            Oh, thank you so much for having me.

                            I'm so excited to be on your podcast today.

                            And as you said, I just found out about burnout a little bit more.

                            And what I realized in the last two or three years was that people around me were talking about burnout and they obviously had to burn out.

                            And I had, um, And after having lots of work in 2021, I decided I need a time out.

                            And I have to go, I chose to do a cruise, five weeks.

                            I was going to a cruise.

                             

                            Avery - 02:53

                            That sounds lovely!

                             

                            Caroline - 02:55

                            It was lovely, but two things were happening.

                            First of all, two weeks before the cruise, my mother had an accident and she was in a wheelchair then, in a hospital.

                            And I was focused on my, I want to go to that cruise.

                            And then, and then, no, it's not funny, but, and I was visiting her, of course, and helping her, she's living alone.

                            And the cruise was canceled.

                            The cruise company cancelled the cruise because of COVID.

                            They cancelled 600 guests for being able to do the cruise at all.

                             

                            Caroline - 03:40

                            It was in January 2022. And then I thought, what am I doing now?

                            Because everyone thinks I'm on that cruise now, having a time out.

                            It's all good.

                            Then I went to visit my mom helping her, of course.

                            And then I decided I booked a different cruise then for two weeks.

                            So I was on a cruise.

                            I was super excited, but I was also like, I just want to sleep.

                             

                            Caroline - 04:07

                            All I want to do is get on that ship and sleep three days or so.

                            And I think these are signals.

                            As well, yeah, you know more about that, I don't.

                            So yeah, this is the beginning of feeling of burnout.

                             

                            Avery - 04:24

                            Mm-hmm and you touched on the most important point is that like we've mentioned before on the podcast that burnout is not a stress management issue so much as it's an energy management issue and that's why when we're in burnt out we feel like we just want to sleep.

                            It's like we can't do too much beyond that so that's totally normal.

                            So what do you think What other factors do you think contributed to your experience of burnout?

                            I know you identify as a high achiever.

                            Do you think that played a role?

                             

                            Caroline - 04:55

                            Yes, I was a high achiever or I would call it hyper achiever because there's a difference.

                            I recently learned it and I never would have called myself as that.

                            I always I am ambitious and I always achieve my goals and what I set my mind to.

                            And yeah, and I was, I wanted always to be number one everywhere and succeed.

                            So I had my own company and I felt this pressure also with the employees coming to my house, because I have to say We constructed a house to live in and my office was in that house.

                            So every morning when, so I got kind of panic attacks, not really, but I was really scared to go in that office at the end, you know, and I was avoiding, really I was avoiding, I cannot tell you why, but it was like, I cannot go there anymore.

                            And then it ended up in, I closed the company last year.

                             

                            Caroline - 06:01

                            In July, June, I closed it because I didn't want to do it anymore.

                            And then until then I thought, Oh, everything is okay.

                            So I didn't identify this burnout only after that.

                            And I thought now the best time of my life begins because I was traveling then four months through the US.

                            Yeah.

                            No, it was the best time.

                            So it was kind of the opposite of growing up, like having a good time traveling, meeting people, having good food, et cetera.

                             

                            Caroline - 06:36

                            And when I came back then to Germany, I think this is where everything like, you know, when it's soaked in, maybe the reality kicks in and you think, Oh, what have I done?

                            And what am I doing next?

                             

                            Avery - 06:54

                            Yeah.

                            So when you think back to, like, because you mentioned that, like, you know, it's burnout now, we often talk about how hindsight's a jerk, and you're looking back and you're like, oh, there were the signs.

                            So what do you think some of those subtler signs were for you that you were heading into burnout that you just didn't notice yet?

                             

                            Caroline - 07:16

                            I didn't notice that people are mirroring it.

                            So, and when I mentioned in the beginning, it came into my life, it was in May 20, I think 2021, when one of my employees told me that her husband was suffering from a burnout and he quit his job.

                            So it was around me.

                            And then one year later, Um, there was a person coming into our office and I didn't know why, because it was an employee from another company, but we, so from a, um, how do you call it?

                            A client, a client.

                            She, she worked for a client and she came to visit us in our office and she talked for three hours only about her problems.

                            And when she said one word, she said, I think.

                             

                            Caroline - 08:08

                            I have a burnout or I think I'm going to have burnout soon.

                            And I didn't realize this, but after when she left and we talked about it, we were three people witnessing this.

                            We all three thought, oh, it's already too late because if someone says, I think I'm going to have a burnout, then they are in the middle of the burnout.

                            So I had to make a decision because I was the like, It was responsibility and I thought I'd talk about it but

                            Yeah, there was bad stuff happening.

                            And I think she left the company and she was also afraid of being fired by them.

                            Yeah.

                             

                            Caroline - 09:08

                            And I didn't notice.

                            So it was in my field already talking about energy.

                            It was in my field, but I didn't realize it.

                            And I think everything is okay.

                            And then I closed my company and I thought I solved the problem, but I didn't know.

                             

                            Avery - 09:23

                            Yeah, so tell me a little bit more about that.

                            So this is where like people think that burnout is like a circle, like you just kind of come back up to the top and everything's fine.

                            But we have all of these patterns and habits that continue to like knock us back down into burnout.

                            So by closing your company, you thought you had solved the problem.

                            But what other patterns and behaviors did you notice that continued to perpetuate burnout for you?

                             

                            Caroline - 09:47

                            So I was on that holidays.

                            And it didn't get better.

                            So it was like, yeah, I took the pattern with me and it was like, I was still there.

                            My thoughts were running wild and, you know, in the spiral.

                             

                            Avery - 10:04

                            Yeah.

                            So like what kind of thoughts were in there that kept bringing you back to burnout?

                            Can you think of any in particular?

                             

                            Caroline - 10:10

                            Yeah, I think also the question about what happens next?

                            What is now?

                            What am I doing now?

                            I learned a different profession, you can say, like I became a consultant for Bob Proctor three years ago.

                            So I had this new perspective as well.

                            I was working with clients, so yeah, something new.

                             

                            Avery - 10:44

                            Yes, love it.

                            So what things did you do that started to help you get out of burnout, besides traveling?

                            Because I know that was a really good reset for you.

                            But what other things did you do to help make sure that you don't end up back in burnout?

                             

                            Caroline - 11:00

                            Yeah, I can tell you which is Facing it.

                            Facing the being honest with yourself.

                            What is it?

                            Even if you don't call it burnout but you feel that something is wrong and you have to face it until you know.

                            And to care for myself, put myself first.

                            Doing what I love.

                            Not forcing myself to do things I don't love anymore like accounting because I love more coaching or yeah or doing the podcast I told you or you were the guest in my inspired podcast.

                             

                            Caroline - 11:40

                            Yeah and this is also maybe it is also the reason I started the podcast because you know when you only when you take the words burn out that there's a flame going out and then you have you have to be inspired again or like ignited and it's about the flame or the fire and these were questions I asked

                            myself last year what inspires me And what are my gifts and talents?

                            And I thought, I cannot answer it right now.

                            So why not asking other people?

                            So I did this and I'm very inspired by doing the interviews now.

                             

                            Avery - 12:16

                            Oh, that's beautiful.

                            I didn't know that story behind it, Caroline.

                            That's lovely.

                            So tell us a little bit more about the kind of people you bring on your podcast.

                             

                            Caroline - 12:27

                            Oh, this is so it's like, um, when the podcast came to me in the middle of the night, 3 AM when I was in San Diego coming back from a road trip from Los Angeles to Colorado Springs and back.

                            Um, then in San Diego, I had a house sit with my first dog.

                            This was exciting enough.

                            And then I woke up in the middle of the night and there was one word telling me podcast.

                            So like it came to me.

                            And I took inspired action to set it up.

                            Then all the guests are coming to me, like you, for example.

                             

                            Caroline - 12:59

                            So I see faces on Facebook, on LinkedIn, wherever, social media.

                            And I just ask, would you love to be my podcast guest?

                            And they are all saying yes.

                            They are all inspired, you know?

                             

                            Avery - 13:13

                            I love that.

                            And your podcast is so beautiful to listen to.

                            You bring on so many different perspectives and people, and it's just such a wonderful place.

                            I really like it.

                            Thank you so much!

                             

                            Caroline - 13:35

                            Yes, so I'm also a tech nerd when the internet was invented or opened to the public in 1996. I was one of the first, like I'm always first mover.

                            It can be related to the hyperachiever.

                             

                            Avery - 13:54

                            Yes, I heard it.

                             

                            Caroline - 13:56

                            Of course.

                            And so I, um, I tried this new platform, Be Connected, and I became a certified expert.

                            This is where I record my podcasts as well.

                            And we can stream there, have groups and live events, and it's just fun.

                            You know, it's a community growing, it's a startup.

                            So we are, um, how can I say this, promoting this or advertising, and I'm working there so I can teach people how to use it and make the most of it.

                            Yes, this is what I'm doing now.

                             

                            Caroline - 14:26

                            Then of course, I'm still a consultant for the Bob Proctor coaching programs, and I'm doing the podcast.

                            And I have a reading group.

                            I read Think and Grow Rich every morning.

                            It's my morning for you.

                            It's in the middle of the night.

                            Yes, at 5.30, Think and Grow Rich.

                            And this is also very inspiring.

                             

                            Avery - 14:47

                            That's a beautiful habit to have.

                            I really like that.

                            So where can people find you on the internet?

                            Oh, they can find me everywhere.

                             

                            Caroline - 14:57

                            Oh, what I love most is TikTok, you know, TikTok is Where it all started three years ago, I discovered my mentors and I decided to go on social media and I think I didn't tell you the story that I didn't speak before.

                            Not in English, not in German, I didn't speak so not in school.

                            I don't know how I studied or how I finished school or Get the marks by writing every time.

                            So I was not speaking, I discovered that and I also improved my English in the last two years.

                            Yes, so it's a miracle that I can speak to you today and I'm so happy.

                             

                            Avery - 15:43

                            Yes, absolutely.

                            So we're going to link to everything including your TikTok in the show notes.

                            And I just want to take a moment Caroline to celebrate that you are doing a podcast, not in your native language.

                            And now that you've shared that, it's even more strength and perseverance that it took to do this.

                            So I just want to commend you for that.

                            It takes a lot of courage to do.

                            So thank you.

                             

                            Caroline - 16:09

                            Thank you.

                            Courage is my second name.

                            And I recorded 228 episodes now since December, and I committed to 1111 episodes.

                            You know, this is very exciting.

                             

                            Avery - 16:23

                            It is very exciting and I am so excited to watch you on your journey as you get closer and closer to that number because you will get there.

                            100% you'll get there.

                             

                            Caroline - 16:32

                            Thank you so much.

                            And I said, then we are doing a celebration party with all the podcast guests, which you are included.

                             

                            Avery - 16:40

                            I am there.

                            I am there.

                            Definitely.

                            Well, thank you so much, Caroline.

                            Is there anything else that you want to say to the person listening right now before I let you go?

                             

                            Caroline - 16:50

                            Yes, of course.

                            Never give up.

                            Always believe in yourself and there is a way.

                            Because even if you don't see it yet and it is there and there are people helping you, you just have to ask or reach out to someone, for example, me or Avery, of course.

                            Yes, there's someone helping you, supporting you.

                             

                            Avery - 17:12

                            Beautiful way to end the episode.

                            Thank you so much for that.

                            Thank you.

                            Hold please.

                            I know that these end-of-podcast blurbs are generally really repetitive and only say, make sure you're subscribed, but this isn't like that.

                            Today, I have a little habit challenge for you.

                            Before you sit down to do your next work block, I encourage you to take five slow deep breaths for five seconds on the inhale and five seconds on the exhale.

                             

                            Avery - 17:42

                            Doing this helps us turn off our stress switch which then regains access to our higher level thinking brain which is something that we talk about in the free course that's included in the productivity partner app which helps you design your pre-work ritual.

                            And inside that Productivity Partner app, each day there's a mini habit challenge where I take 60 seconds to explain something like this that you can do in your day to become even more effective and impactful as a high achiever.

                            You can try it for one week for free by going to thetruthaboutburnout.com.

                            Give nothing to lose and everything to gain.

                            Go give it a try!


                             

                            19 min
                          7. Can Self-Compassion Transform Your Success Journey?

                            Amidst the hustle and bustle of everyday life, you might find yourself caught in a whirlwind of expectations and deadlines. Like a rising star in your own industry, you thrive on ambition and drive, constantly pushing yourself to reach new heights. But beneath this outward facade of success, there's often a silent battle brewing within.

                            Every setback feels like a blow to your self-worth, every mistake a harsh judgment on your abilities. Despite your achievements, you might feel trapped in a cycle of self-doubt and insecurity, unable to extend the same kindness to yourself that you readily offer to others.

                            Sound familiar? This scenario highlights a truth we can all relate to: the journey toward success is often fraught with internal struggles and emotional hurdles. That's where self-compassion comes in.

                            Self-compassion, as outlined by Dr. Kristin Neff, boils down to three key elements: self-kindness, common humanity, and mindfulness. It's about treating yourself with the same warmth and understanding you would offer a friend in need. In essence, it's the antidote to the self-criticism and harsh judgment that often plague our inner thoughts.

                            When we embrace self-compassion, it becomes a guiding light, illuminating the path toward greater resilience and emotional well-being. By cultivating this mindset, we not only ease the burden of self-criticism but also foster a deeper sense of acceptance and inner peace.

                            It’s important, though, to consider why self-compassion matters, explore its impact on both our personal and professional lives.

                            The Importance of Self-Compassion in the Pursuit of Success

                            Self-compassion isn't just a buzzword; it's a powerful tool that can transform how we navigate life's ups and downs. Let's break it down a bit. Dr. Kristin Neff, a pioneering psychologist, outlines three key elements of self-compassion: self-kindness, common humanity, and mindfulness.

                            First up, self-kindness. It's about treating ourselves with the same tenderness and understanding we'd offer a dear friend. Instead of beating ourselves up over mistakes, self-kindness encourages us to embrace our humanity, flaws and all. After all, we're only human, right?

                            Then there's common humanity. This one's a game-changer. It's the realization that we're not alone in our struggles. Everyone faces challenges, setbacks, and moments of self-doubt. When we recognize this shared human experience, it becomes easier to extend compassion to ourselves and others.

                            Last but not least, mindfulness. This element invites us to approach our thoughts and emotions with openness and non-judgment. Rather than getting swept away by negative thoughts or feelings, mindfulness encourages us to observe them with curiosity and acceptance. It's like being the calm center in the midst of life's storms.

                            Let's talk about the benefits. Research has shown that practicing self-compassion can work wonders for our well-being. It's like a superpower that boosts resilience, reduces stress, and promotes emotional balance. When we're kinder to ourselves, we're better equipped to bounce back from setbacks and face challenges head-on. Plus, who wouldn't want to feel more at ease and content in their own skin?

                            The Consequences of Low Self-Compassion

                            When we constantly berate ourselves, it's like chipping away at the foundation of our confidence. This negative self-talk not only undermines our belief in ourselves but also sets the stage for burnout, draining our mental and emotional reserves.

                            Research backs this up, showing a clear link between self-criticism and heightened levels of anxiety, depression, and impaired performance. It's like a vicious cycle— the more we beat ourselves up, the worse we feel, and the harder it becomes to perform at our best.

                            In one study called "Self-Compassion and Psychological Resilience Among Adolescents and Young Adults: A Meta-Analytic Review" (Authors: Bluth K, Roberson PN, Gaylord SA, Faurot KR, Grewen KM, Arzon S, Girdler SS) published in the Journal of Psychology in Schools in 2015 found that individuals with higher levels of self-compassion exhibited greater psychological resilience, including lower levels of anxiety and depression.

                            A study done in 2019 published by the Journal of Autism and Developmental Disorders found that higher levels of self-compassion were associated with lower levels of parental stress, anxiety, and depression, highlighting the importance of self-compassion in managing the challenges associated with caregiving.

                            Yet another study done in 2013 called “The Association of Self-Compassion and Depression Symptoms in a Clinical Sample with Chronic Pain” (Sansone RA, Sansone LA published in Innovations in Clinical Neuroscience) also found important information on the role of self-compassion. This study explored the relationship between self-compassion and depression symptoms in individuals with chronic pain. The findings revealed a significant negative correlation between self-compassion and depression symptoms, suggesting that lower levels of self-compassion were associated with higher levels of depression in this clinical population.

                            By now it’s clear that self-compassion is a vital component for your ultimate success. Let’s get into how you can start to develop this skill.

                            How to Develop Self-Compassion for Success

                            When we're working toward goals that push us out of our comfort zone and we start to doubt ourselves, when we’re being our own toughest critic, or replaying over our mistakes and regrets in our minds, self-compassion becomes our greatest ally. It's like having a supportive friend by our side, cheering us on through the ups and downs of the journey. Without self-compassion, we're more susceptible to burnout and exhaustion.

                            Imagine you're striving for a promotion at work. You pour your heart and soul into your job, working long hours and sacrificing personal time to meet deadlines. But amidst the relentless pursuit of success, your inner critic rears its ugly head. Every mistake feels like a failure, and you can't help but compare yourself to others who seem to have it all together. Without self-compassion, this cycle of self-criticism can quickly lead to burnout, draining your energy and enthusiasm.

                            Now, let's flip the script. Picture yourself approaching your goals with a sense of self-compassion. Instead of berating yourself for every misstep, you offer yourself kindness and understanding. You recognize that setbacks are a natural part of the journey and treat yourself with the same compassion you would a friend facing similar challenges. With self-compassion as your guiding light, you're better equipped to navigate the twists and turns of the road ahead, preserving your well-being and resilience in the face of adversity.

                            In essence, self-compassion isn't just a nice-to-have; it's a necessity for success. By cultivating self-compassion, we not only protect ourselves from burnout but also foster a deeper sense of fulfillment and resilience on our journey toward our goals. So, as you embark on your next endeavor, remember to be kind to yourself along the way. Your success depends on it.

                            Self-Compassion is Not Just A Buzzword

                            So you see, self-compassion isn't just another buzzword—it's a game-changer. By treating ourselves with kindness, recognizing our shared humanity, and approaching challenges with gentleness and curiosity, we lay the foundation for emotional well-being and our ultimate success.

                            Research underscores the importance of self-compassion, showing its correlation with reduced anxiety, depression, and burnout. This gives us a light at the end of the proverbial tunnel of goal achievement.

                            So, as you continue on your journey toward success, remember to look at things from a more gentle and objective perspective. By embracing self-compassion, you not only safeguard your well-being but also pave the way for a more fulfilling and impactful path ahead.

                             

                            12 min

                          About The Truth About Burnout

                          From the publisher's feed

                          Welcome to The Truth About Burnout, where high achievers find the key to unlocking peak performance without burning out. If you're a go-getter feeling the weight of stress and burnout, join us as we explore the strategies and mindset shifts that will revolutionize your approach to productivity, focus, energy, and motivation.