The Unified Team

Dating is full of dilemmas. Who pays? Should you kiss? Should you sleep with someone on the first date?

In this episode we discussed many and talked about the dynamics that cause dilemmas.

Chemistry and compatibility are elusive topics. In this episode we dug in to try to understand more.

In this episode our intrepid Rebels were challenged to work in teams and build a model of how to make a relationship work.

After this, we looked at the Gottman's Shared House relationship model. 

Transcript

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. Tonight, we're here for the the government shutdown relationship House model that we're going to discuss. So you've just been in the breakout room talking about what you think your past relationships may have needed or what they were missing and what would have made them work if they were meant to work. Does anyone does anyone have any insights or thoughts to share based on.

That discussion. I have a nice term that came up in my group not needing to have a fair partnership, a sense of a fair partnership, but I like that term needing to have or not need.

Yeah, that's that's that's that's a shortfall in a relationship, not having one. But that's what they would love to have. So that's a shortcoming. Not having one. OK, that's a good one. Anyone else stand standing up for a balanced relationship at the same time, standing up, great defending. Now, I'm struggling to remember if Rosa or Rosa.

Yes, so we agreed with the girls that it was communication and trust and we talked about how. Sometimes taking a bit longer to get to know the person is a bit more worth it so that you get that kind of connection with them and then you get more communication and more trust and more openness to me personally. What that was, what locked in all of my past relationships was the communication and trust. And like I mentioned last week, there was this lack of vulnerability from the other side, like I couldn't trust the person because they weren't vulnerable with me.

So it was just a one way street, really.

OK, OK. Any any other qualities, so attributes of authenticity, honesty. Being present and also we have communication. OK, I come validation. OK, compatability. We cannot feel sorry. Another one is not knowing what we need, what we want.

OK, self-awareness. Yeah. Within Rispoli, respectful boundaries, boundaries. Are not getting not not getting physical too soon. So, like, say, if you had a date in plan where you didn't have physical contact to say like eight dates or whatever, you might decide that allows you to see the person as they really are and not get caught up in all the chemistry, which is wonderful. But if you're OK, it's almost like a drug. You know, you can get hooked and she's free and not really see what you've got.

Do you think that is just going to build up the chemistry and delay it? Or do you think that's going to be a way around that? I think if you give yourself time to see where what the person is actually about and they're a decent human being, there's nothing wrong with me and a decent human being and that being chemistry. But if there's just chemistry, there's no compatibility that is doomed. I think that's my personal experience and opinion. There's gotta be something more.

It's okay to have the physical and the the connection and the compatibility. Ideally, you're not going to marry someone you don't find you don't find attractive.

Are you OK? And we had in our group the trying to avoid the conflict. Avoid conflict. By pleasing or just simply avoiding? OK. I made suggestions there, got Carol. Sorry about that. Yeah, I just made the suggestion that it seems like you can only really meet and connect with somebody to the level that they've done that with themselves. So how well they know themselves, how developed they are is the depth that you can merge with them.

Mm hmm. I think it comes down to that. I think I can't remember who it was that you talked about being vulnerability, the vulnerability. And that's quite interesting, because when you do find someone who is willing to go further, more vulnerable than you. Is that going to feel threatening because there's a point where all of us have where we feel comfortable and a lot of people say that they want a lot of communication and vulnerability, but it becomes then threatening when someone does go to that level, because then you find the limits of your own readiness to go to the thing.

And I think you're really spot on that role. But I think that's why it's important not to share vulnerability, see too soon. So you say if you went on a date for the second time with somebody and they started opening up about their life, you would think that was a red flag straight away. But if they said the same thing on the 10th day, it would be appropriate. May be just about the pace of the getting to know someone not doing it too quickly, just slowing everything down.

Yeah, it's it's it's not what you do. It's the context in which you do it. The context is all important.

And you have to be careful about cultural norms, though. If you're an American, you will open up immediately. You will start to get that's true. Culturally, they're more open. So you may find that a little bit overwhelming.

But, you know, a pretty open it's wonderful, isn't it, that that sort of emotional openness. I lived in America for five years and that is really beautiful in other cultures like Colombia, and they're very gregarious and that's beautiful. But what I'm trying to say is if you start sort of telling someone all your emotional history that whatever culture you're in, that is kind of like, hang on a minute, that's a bit too much in there.

No, that's the kind of if you are talking to somebody who is of the same culture, it may be normal for both of them. You may think it's not the done thing, but that's normal for them. But I think it's more if it's two people from two different cultures, how do you make that happy meeting that happy half halfway point where you can both work with the differences between you? I think can I present a different view, please?

I believe if he's not the right person for you or you are not the right person for him or her.

Sorry, then. We are not willing to go that far to be vulnerable and open and transparent. Good poing, good polling, poorly in polling. I think that's the difficulty I've had in past relationships, actually, and not trying to communicate people all the time and trying to conflate resolve and not being met halfway. I guess they're not willing to be vulnerable or face their issues or be honest with themselves and with me. Yeah, and I guess it just depends how resolved they are within themselves, really.

I think I think everyone everyone has a level that they're willing to open up to and can connect to. And one of the problems that people have when they are dating or in a relationship, and then there's all these kind of tricks and techniques and the rules and all of these things. And what they do is they essentially mask who you are. So the goal isn't to make a relationship last with someone. The goal is to get the relationship that you want.

And so the more quicker you can get to who someone is, the quicker you can work out that in Winstone relationship, you shouldn't be. I need to make this work. It should be. Can it work with this person? Yeah.

Mean spot on. You just hit the nail on the head. And so the quicker that you can get to that and then the less emotional thing there is if it doesn't, if they're not the right person. So yeah, it's really just about finding the level that you can connect someone with. That they allow you to and you are comfortable with them. Sometimes it's just simply the person got so much trauma, why it's not even aware it's having these issues, so it's not really not honest with itself, it just simply never reached that crucial level.

It's just been always busy, busy, and that's our these time issues, we try to be busy and we try to solve a lot of problems that should be first ourselves, but we should be every single day for ourselves, like so many great people does. First two, three hours. It should be yours, not even your partner, not even anybody else. It should be your wake up early, do your three hours for yourselves. Then after go and do the other stuff.

Yeah, it's easy to lose yourself in a relationship, and so many people do lose themselves in trying to be the person to please or the person that keeps the relationship going. OK, so we've we've got quite we've got quite a few ideas so that everyone still confident they have a good grasp of their feeling and understanding. So when I saw when I first read it, I used to just write stuff for us to talk a lot. And so if he came here expecting to listen, to talk, then that's not what we want.

We're going to do. This is about being engaged and everyone sharing their views that we will come away with something better than any one of us had to start with. Now, what I want to do now is, is an exercise and we're going to work in teams of about four or five in breakout rooms. And what I'd like you to do is think up if you had to. And I need to, because you've been assigned the task of making a model, the best model you can come up with in 20 minutes as a group for how to make your relationship work.

AK. Does that make sense? We say that again, please. Sorry. So we're going to work in groups in four or five in the breakout room and the idea is to take what is essential for building a relationship model. So I don't know if you can see the whole thing. I've put it up as a virtual background of this is the Gutman's relationship model. So what I'd like you to do before we go through it and talk about it, I'd like you to think about what in your view as a group, would it take to make a relationship work?

So the government have been working on this like 40 years, but you've got 20 minutes. But just to come up with the best idea you have. And then so then we can we can compare that against the governments. OK, so we've got someone who wanted to do a kind of regulars know how things work in each group. If someone can take notes to be the spokesman and write down the model and draw in whatever, whatever kind of model seems to make sense.

OK. Is that volunteering better? Yes. If it starts with self-knowledge, self awareness, knowing the self and one word values. So who you are and what you want in life next, honestly communicate honestly with your partner or prospective partner. This is driven by vulnerability, which in turn brings about trust and authenticity is at the center of it. So we had millions of words like tolerance and patience and empathy and understanding, and we spoke about willingness to invest in a relationship and having an emotional bank account and how we need to be willing to create a balance.

But at the heart of it all really was honesty, starting with honesty to self Monkeybone. What you want and an honest. It's OK, yeah, that's those kids. Thank you. Does anyone else from that group who wants to do anything else in. Before we move on. OK, which group thinks that? So tonight we haven't got Irial here, so it's not going to be no bribery with apple crumble. So which group, just on the merits of the work that they've done, thinks that they have a better model or.

Or is that sent out? Or who has an alternative model, is that Janosz? Yeah, we actually find a couple of good points. One of them was the courage. To be bold and to do the things like. Also, the self reflect, we said, which is related more further to understanding the healing from the traumas, how to even do that, to be aware about. Dialogue to resolve the problems. Rather than just its proper listin and really understanding and the space to giving for each other, especially when the trauma will trigger.

And we also said, so don't try to help others without being asked to help, because by that you actually not giving trust, you actually taking out the ability to learn how to solve that problem in the future. And by like that, it's the person can feel it in control, and they're also the ones who are aware of the common trauma triangle of. Victim, victim, Villone, and remember the other one, but yeah, becomes, you know, that kind of trauma of Survivor and saved.

Could I ask what was the coverage needed for? So even to try to solve the problems, you know, for anything because solved, then we know what to do. But you actually have to put your ass there to do it. You have to be show up. And for that, you need a lot of courage. It's not just self confidence. That's not enough. You have to go there and do it. You have to go there and you have to be there and just the least.

And that's a courage. It's Bradley Brown, really nice talking about that in Netflix, you can find it's really nice. Because to me, the word courage says that you're willing to make the effort and to be willing to make the effort to me speaks of having that value, because I think that was somebody who you don't value, not willing to put in that effort.

You need courage to trust Jesus and to give yourself completely. OK, is anyone else from Genesis greet anyone else kind of thing to say? OK, which says it is two more groups within the. He would like to talk from one of the others. I'm doing my good Irene and Matthews Group. OK, OK, OK.

We came up with the idea of building a committed team, so it's two individuals working together to build a committed team which has a sense of fun and enjoys physical and emotional intimacy. Yeah, I can't even read my own handwriting. Sorry.

And contributing to that, uh, the following things, um, authenticity which was mentioned before.

Commitment. Conflict resolution and learning. Effective, these two separate things, conflict resolution and learning and yeah, and learning as in how to learn in conflict, learning, learning from the experience, from the conflict and the resolution thereof.

Right. Effective communication, of course, that is all tied into that, but separate and apart from that as well, learning to ask for what you want. Being able to ask you, which I think also ties in with courage. Can create encouraging and appreciating individual growth. OK, and, of course, values always fit into that. And providing dynamic support. Dynamic, yeah, it way the changes it also one supports and the other supports. Yeah, yeah.

And it may vary throughout, OK.

You for the biggest list, we like to talk. OK, one more group whose was the last group? Nicole. And so, yeah, we had our analysis just about managed to get something together, but we're talking first, we reckon it should be based on clear boundaries. About what both parties want, what you look for, what your morals and values are. Equals basically going from a place of equality with a partner, authenticity, which is really important and and with that we discuss that pertaining to autonomy as well.

So having your own things going on, your own interests, a little bit of introspection, I guess, and honesty. I mean, that's a given. And then we were feeling after this sort of communication and conflict resolution, so it with a bit of emotional intelligence, it's got to be based on respect. And you to be able to communicate and resolve your issues. I've got to be vulnerable with each other. And then we're feeling like shared humor is also important and teamwork, like Sandra was just talking about anyone else from the group mission.

And it's only two more to be Sandra's group type patient, loving, caring. OK. OK, so. I think now if we go quick and give you three minutes, same groups to come up with three. So amalgamates amalgamate, which is more important, Kifri, when I did this, I made like this model based on my ideas and then I figured out what is that the core of the all? Because it's easy to remember free. And it's interesting that only one of them is turned up.

Okay, so back in the same breakout rooms click fire free. And you see, you just need to really quickly agree amongst yourself, like I think or you assign authenticity and autonomy can probably be merged. And then we'll come back in three minutes for just free. Free for each. So quickly, what are the three from each group? Compatibility, authenticity, interdependence. We found this difficult to narrow down, we went with communication, conflict resolution, respect, and then we went to show on the last one was sort of bounced around empathy and love.

But I think authenticity is quite important as well.

OK. It's really hard to do in the short time and the other two groups. One of them was the authenticity aswell. We said all the communication to the solving problems. And the third one was a little bit like how we could describe. I believe I can explain. So you can explain. OK, I'll add something, Sidrah Mutual Attraction's. I guess you can say compatability, so which includes physical attractions, mental attraction, emotional attraction, spiritual attraction.

A case different, like all three levels of attraction. Yeah, or more. Okay. Physical, mental, intellectual and same as mental, but emotional and spiritual. OK. And Kate and Betty. British group Honesty Values and Curtaining Katamon.

AK. OK, so that's interesting. So authenticity is showing up. It's strange how in a group how much variety there is, and I think one of that one of the reasons for that is that words are very difficult. Words that I say would mean something slightly different to you. And so is really getting to the definitions of that. OK, so now I'm going to run through the government's model. So that the government said John Gottman started work research on relationships about 40 years ago, saying that he he had no idea how to have a relationship.

He had no idea about them. And really, he is someone very small, numbers driven, statistics driven. So he himan Bob Levinson just did this research and I didn't intervene. They didn't do anything. They just like the main research is in what they call a love lab. So they have like this flat where a couple will come in as if it's like an Airbnb for a weekend and they'll just be there as if they're away for a weekend.

And there's cameras all around the lab, the couple of wired up. So it's taking all their senses, you know, like heart rate, skin, all of these things you get in physiological states and they just watch them and they just analyze the video and they looked at how they talk to each other. I looked at how they disagreed. And interim government claims that he can think he said ninety seven percent. He can claim who's going to which relationships are going to last and which aren't.

Primarily on how they argue it's not if they are arguing isn't the sign of a problem, it's how you argue. So to set this up first by because what we've done so said basically most of what I've learned on relationships is based on the comments and then I've looked at so the governments that goal. So they differ from someone like Hovell Hendriks, whose goal is to be very idealistic. And they have a story that relationships are part of the journey.

And so it's a bit of a leap. It's not maybe it's true, maybe it's not, but it's not provable. Whereas the governments are very much only work on provable. And he's spoken that their goal is to help couples and be able to have a pastry together. It's not to be anything more than that. It's not any great spiritual or that it's just to be able to have a functioning relationship. So that's where they came from. Now, John Gottman for 20 years, never had any theories.

He had lots of research data, but he never intervened, never did anything. And it was only when he met his now wife and she'd been working as a therapist. And she was deeply and as a as a therapist....

In this podcast we talked about what attracted us to people.

What happened to attraction over the span of a relationship and what killed it or kept it alive.

We answered whether it can be re-ignited and much more.

Transcript

[00:00:00.835] 

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. So tonight, we're looking at the science of attraction. What is it that makes us attracted to one person and not to another? So you've been in the breakout rooms.

[00:00:30.215] 

I think you'll find you're all Meeteetse. So just tell me if you want to join, if you've got something to say. But so we were looking in the breakout rooms about who you who you like. If you could say anyone or spend the night with anyone, who would you choose? And then looking beyond that, what was there that attracted you to that person? So does anyone want to share what they found from their breakout rooms? Yes, we liked different people, but we all found that we were attracted to the animal magnetism and their presence.

[00:01:14.415] 

OK, so animal magnetism as in. Some of them, yeah, their presence really we describe them as being confident and having a distinct presence about them. OK, I think I could add to that because I was in the same group, I don't mind bringing it to the floor, I think is an example in nineteen fifty eight. So I've got an interesting thing with regards to dates. So in nineteen fifty eight, if anyone remembers, in the fifties there was a very attractive actress who I found attractive and my grandfather found attractive when he was in his 20s, Elizabeth Taylor.

[00:01:49.535] 

So she was in a film called Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. If anyone remembers a nineteen fifties in nineteen fifty eight with Paul Newman. And on the other side, Paul Newman was a very handsome man in the nineteen fifties, but I think Elizabeth Taylor would be one that struck out for me and her personality, in a sense a stage persona. I think Elizabeth Taylor from the 1950s.

[00:02:13.015] 

I think anyone else and also I'm interested in looking at is there a divide like any distinctions between between gender attraction and genders?

[00:02:30.505] 

I think I've read it before that men tend to go off, they have more visual. Well, I must say that I agree with Betty's group, the Animal Magnetism, for me, I would spend a night with Idris Elba and AJ and have gotten from Bollywood movies and Indian fans and Bollywood fans. I would spend the night with them when I want to get intellectual where maybe I'll go elsewhere. But yeah, those two, I'm OK. And so is it the looks.

[00:03:05.375] 

Is it the character they play? Is it something else?

[00:03:10.625] 

Well, in the carrot they can play different characters, but essentially there is something about them. There's presence the way they carry themselves. There's confidence. And you you don't know this for a fact, but you think that they may be interesting just to have a conversation with, but I'm not expecting them to be professor, you know, whatever.

[00:03:38.115] 

That's not what I'm looking for. I'm sorry if not for one night of the week. Yes.

[00:03:46.845] 

You just want them to look pretty for tonight. Is that it? Oh, yes.

[00:03:50.865] 

Oh, yes. Oh, yes. And I'd love to be entertained. I mean, it doesn't mean anything, you know, it's just that that is what I would like for that excitement then.

[00:04:04.035] 

Oh, no, I'll have the proper conversations, you know, the deep the deep look into your eyes or get into my brain kind of thing. Now, not for one night. I like Dustin Hoffman. I like his voice. Actually, it's got really OK. What is it about his voice. I don't know. It's just I'm not quite sure she. I don't know what it is, he's just. There's a sense there is a sense of depth about his voice when you just get a feeling that he could talk about anything and have something really interesting to say about it, and you can always close your eyes.

[00:04:49.235] 

Sorry, and you can always close your eyes if it's just the voice. Well, listen, not just know. I know. I'm just I'm just joking.

[00:04:59.175] 

Not in our group.

[00:05:00.635] 

We had we completely contradict what you were saying. The male janosz was definitely into the intellect, whereas Frances and myself, it was more like the attractive body, etc.. And Frances chose Chris O'Dowd, who I Googled to find out who he was. He's an actor. And I had to check. We looked really attractive on my phone, but I have to check his height because height is really important to me. And I know that sounds silly.

[00:05:35.915] 

And and so height was really important, but Janosz definitely went for the the the brains rather than the the attractive body, etc.. And my mind was Adrian Dumba from the line of duty. Yeah, that's okay.

[00:05:53.495] 

Thank you. And what are what was it about your dumba?

[00:05:59.265] 

It's his voice, and we both were talking about the Irish accents, so it was the Irish accent and it just seems to have a lovely way with him. And he's tall, obviously, and I hate to say it, but he reminds me a bit of my dad. So what more than somebody might well read into that. OK, thank you.

[00:06:22.245] 

And Granddad, he. I am sorry about that. Well, just because the policy is not working, yeah, the reason that we I was in it was interesting because the girls have completely different expectations. And then I was really interested because they tend to go for the lost and a bit of provocation for a night. And I was the complete opposite. I can't even if I said to you, you're going to go on a date with the person, I don't want to waste it by drooling all over them.

[00:07:01.665] 

I want no intellectual conversation with them. I want to get to know him a really deep level, but on a on a nice, calm, easy conversation. But I want to get in a more intuitive level. I don't just look at it because you've got fancy nails. It's all irrelevant. And what's the point? It's a waste of my time to spend time with them, rather sit and watch Netflix. So it was just interesting being someone else's perception of it.

[00:07:30.765] 

I need to be intellectually stimulating up and out with pretty girls with no brains. It doesn't work because you're going to form a relationship with someone that has to you have to be stimulated in all aspects. So, yeah, if you're on a date with someone possibly doing it, what's the point of even attentive? They're not they're emotionally or mentally stimulating because it might be physically attractive. It doesn't mean anything. Does it really just go buy a magazine or something?

[00:08:00.945] 

But if you're looking for a relationship to gain some sort of spiritual emotional wisdom from someone, so you want to choose your time carefully. So it was interesting how my but my preferences were completely different from can I just stop you there? And just to ask if it's not a relationship, if it's just pure physical attraction, would you still go for the intellect overlooks? I've been a really beautiful women. But that's got nothing about and I'm not saying all women are like that, but they literally have nothing about them.

[00:08:38.085] 

It's straight up and out of office looking women who are more bouncy and got more personality. It's not about anything. It's about someone is just a nice person, a mature, emotionally mature person. It's like I'm 40. I'm not playing games with my child. Emotionally immature, 40 years old. I'm married, by the way, so I'm not looking for anything. I found that. I found the physical age. That's why I'm married. But the thing is, relationships have to be built on something or it's pointless.

[00:09:10.215] 

It can't be built on lost because it looks fade. I'm not as handsome as I was 10 years ago and then another 10 years going to be even uglier. That's just life. And unfortunately, you have to find someone that you've got a deep, deep connection with because that's what it's all about. It's about creation and procreate and being with someone when you get old. So, yes, so so normally I would agree with you.

[00:09:38.745] 

But what we're doing tonight is just looking at attraction and trying to separate attraction from relationship so that I have someone who knows something I don't know someone that it's got more I can learn from. OK, I'd want to be with someone like that, OK? OK, thank you. And so how.

[00:10:03.745] 

Yeah, I was just wondering. So is the attraction the same thing as connection? Meaning that the chapter just spoke to find a way to connect with these women despite that outwardly great appearance. So. Yeah, is attraction and connections nominals. No connection is when you connected to someone, but attraction is what draws you to someone. So for attraction, how we use attraction as a definition. The definition of attraction we're using is is like magnetic attraction. So, yeah.

[00:10:47.825] 

So it's what attracts you because the force of attraction is attract or repel. So it's what attracts you. And I think it's Irene where you're going to have some say.

[00:11:00.755] 

I quite like confidence, confidence. Tom Hardy for me, I think he's just such a confident actor. And also I quite like talents like musicians and even like people with power tools. You know, guys are power tools. I know what it is. I just the command or the mastery, you know, like I've got this kind of thing, you know, we're looking at attraction and quite like, you know, guitarists who just get really into the music and does not about looks.

[00:11:34.295] 

It's about seeing how much pleasure they're given off to the audience and also themselves. And yeah. So that's what I like, I think. OK, thank you. Anyone else? All mine were, I think, started on physical attraction because the celebrities and you can only go off their TV or film personality. What you see generally with some of them and is that I'm not sure and fans are all just me now towards the end of the conversation, because you got that one minute show, three with Michelle Keegan, Margot Robbie and Amanda hold of and some of them.

[00:12:28.195] 

I have seen what they portray as their personal Magaro with a couple of films I've seen. And yes, she's a bit cheeky, a bit full. Well, that could just be a character she's portraying. But yeah, looking at it from me I it but I picked one other because I will spend a few seconds left money to help me out. The other person is briefly Catherine Ryan, who's a comedian. So I've seen her a few times, I think she can be quite funny, but I've seen another side of her personality where she had a bit of fun that she joined in the Lip-Sync show.

[00:13:02.295] 

So she was portrayed do the best singing, better dancing. So I saw that you don't normally see. And she dressed up as well. We don't always see her dressed up. So she was also dressed up, which I don't always see. So she's funny. So she was taking a few boxes. But yeah, I can imagine quite a few guys who say yes. Michelle Keegan sexaholics.

[00:13:23.785] 

OK, thank you. That um, there's something I've noticed on social media as well is and I just want to say thank you for being brave enough to to put out that dash, but a lot of men tend to not want to.

[00:13:45.525] 

So like you'll see, I've seen quite a few social media posts and women are quite aggressive to certain men. Like I remember seeing Chadwicks, the body coach and women and all these kind of things of like that. They found him attractive and they were imagining him being with them in the kind of comments out there. And kind of and whereas I've seen similar posts where like a similar female celebrity or something has done something like that and men have been very restrained.

[00:14:22.545] 

They might be different in messages, but socially, I feel. A lot of men feel they're not able to express, like, pure physical attraction, I don't know if any men feel that way, that they have to show more depth to them or something like that. But but that's kind of something I noticed. So. Did anyone else have comment, I think maybe.

[00:14:58.045] 

Yeah, well, my choice was Elon Musk and because I would simply really enjoy talking to him and listening to his ideas, I listen to his podcast with Joe Rogan, and it lasted for like four hours. And it was great in my group with Carlin. Richard, we did all agree that it was about intelligence. But towards the end, we did say that it's quite self-explanatory for people to say that they're attracted to intelligence is is really a no brainer because, well, obviously, you wouldn't be able to spend more than 15 minutes with just a pretty person because they would have nothing else to say.

[00:15:44.655] 

But to add that to add to that, I would say that looks would still be important. And I think I did express it for my personal life that when people say that I'm only attracted to intelligence and nothing else, I think they're massive hypocrites because we all choose to how a person looks as well, even though we might not admit it ever. But I personally think that and wanting to talk to someone is a no brainer and wanting to have a nice conversation.

[00:16:19.425] 

But also you might want to see a nice person as well, especially if that person's intelligent. They would want to talk to person, to another intelligent person. I think it's self-explanatory. Rob, do you think it's a bit of an age thing? My next door neighbors are racing car driver and he's getting a little bit older and he'd always have the Lycra girl on his arm when he was out with his mates, etc.. And this has been going on for years.

[00:16:47.315] 

You know, I've met so many girls. They are absolutely gorgeous. And then recently he's come to me and I have coffee with him and we'll be talking for hours. And then he suddenly said, he says, I'm getting to the age now where I want to have somebody who can have a deep conversation with because these girls, they can't talk about, like, you know, his type of music, et cetera, et cetera. So I think as he's getting older, he's realizing that maybe he does need a little bit more than the conversation than the looks and no longer needs to impress his friends.

[00:17:20.705] 

The other thing is over Christmas, I went through a bad time really with my partner. So I went on dating sites. I don't know if any of you've tried them and you could get even in covid I could get you know, you could get a date every Saturday, every Sunday. It would only be a walk because that's what we were restricted to, etc.. And obviously the height was the issue. So every Saturday I'd go out, you know, with a particular man that I'd met on the dating site during the week.

[00:17:49.205] 

And then Sunday I'd have another war. I don't know what the neighbors were thinking anyways. So then all ages and and but and we'd walk around and you talk because that's all you're be doing. And if they and there was some really lovely people you could have conversations with, but I would go and talk to my lady friends that would be walking with during the week. And I'd just say I'd love to, you know, keep going with this guy, etc.

[00:18:18.455] 

but there's no physical attraction. I could not get into bed with this man, et cetera, et cetera, and no chemistry. Put that word out there as well. I don't know what anybody else feels about that. So going back to what Rosamma, I think was saying about I think you need a little bit of physical attraction before you start the conversation. Maybe just put out there. Yeah, OK. Thank you for that. Yeah. So what we're looking at is attraction and so.

[00:18:51.995] 

The quality of a relationship is about connection, and so what we're trying to look at is the initial attraction, but also the fact of you may have connection. And so Esther Perel says that in a long term relationship. The attraction dies because of familiar familiarity. So we're looking at what does it take to keep the attraction for a relationship. So we're looking at what is an attraction and then what does it take to keep that attraction alive? Do you want to jump in?

[00:19:37.255] 

Cantante. And the first thing that we can use is Travis, I can't because otherwise I feel like I know that's the thing. Do not be illusions. I am not a grunt, OK? I'm a lot younger, but yeah, humor is the best one because you say you can laugh people to death if you if you've got banter and it's great you got a relationship and you're constantly, you know, my my favorite thing I get I'm married.

[00:20:06.225] 

Right. So and when I go on holiday with Mrs. Merkel abroad, there's nothing better than there are people watching. And it's just little stories of about people that we can say we just take it and laugh. And so much so cume is the main thing is it's being able to just laugh all the time and not take life too seriously because no one gets out alive anyway. So when you saw that you can just have a laugh with all the time, it's great.

[00:20:37.305] 

It's brilliant because that connection and that attraction gets stronger. So I've been married for like four, five years, but I'm in a relationship and I love her more than I've ever loved that because she looks she looks more attractive because I'm more connected to her that she'd say the same thing because she brings up something in me and I bring out something in there that other people can't necessarily do. It's like last but I said deep, meaningful relationship. I don't mean let's get into people's psyche.

[00:21:06.975] 

I mean, let's just be open and learn. And remember, relationships are built. They're not they're not yet. You can't just because it'll just you feel these relationships, they just the end before is because it's ended. And with the social media as well, like Tinder and all that nonsense, there's so much temptation out there. So if you haven't got a good connection with someone, you could look somewhere else. You're going to be tempted, aren't you?

[00:21:37.215] 

I definitely think it's important. You know, so many people say that the funds, the funds gone, the excitement is gone. So but it seems like not taking stuff too seriously. But what about when life does get serious, when we children or when there are really big issues...

The Four Agreements is a book written by Don Miguel Ruiz. In this episode we talked about the lessons we can take from it and how relevant it has been in our lives.

Transcript

[00:00:00.835] 

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the past, helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. So tonight's meetup is on is a review of the four agreements, so the four agreements in Tomago terms, terminology is a way that we agree with the world is the way that we create our reality. So. It comes across as quite literal, but for me, the way I would talk about these is the stories that we make up of reality.

[00:00:49.495] 

So he talks about if someone if a parent tells a child that they're bad and that they agree and you agree with it, that becomes your reality. If someone tells you that your rubbish is coming and you agree with that, that becomes your reality. So the four agreements are and where he talks about these are being agreements that you break, agreements you make with yourself to free yourself from those conditions. So the full agreements are to be impeccable with your word now are impeccable.

[00:01:28.545] 

The word comes from Latin means to be without sin. So it's really about using your word, without judgment, without blame, not to harm and not to hurt yourself or others. The second agreement is not to take things personally, that none of it's about you and where we take anything on. That's because we've taken it personally. The. Third agreement is to make assumptions that we tend to justify how we feel with logic, and so we justify the emotion that we feel by the reality that we create that justifies how we feel.

[00:02:21.515] 

And a fourth agreement is to do your best. So before so you've been in the breakout rooms and we've been you were talking about who would you be if you'd been born into a different family, into a different culture of a different gender, a different religion, different social class? So basically, all the things that are externally tell you who you are, your role, your position, the way people treat you, if all of those were different.

[00:02:58.085] 

Who would you be? So I'm interested in what struck anyone as they were discussing their. You might have to amuse yourself, but just tell me what I struggled to tell myself because I thought it was more about of wanting to understand other characters than actually having some sort of an internal thing that I want to be different. I guess maybe I'm just being pompous, but I'm a bit more comfortable with where I am with things. I know if that's just me.

[00:03:44.575] 

What do you mean as you're more comfortable with where you are things?

[00:03:49.525] 

Well, I mean, I don't look at it, so I wish I was I wish I was over another it or nature or organization of country or origin or anything like that. I don't have that kind of that kind of effect.

[00:04:08.825] 

Now, the real issue with this is not where would you have like to be born, but how much of who you think you are comes from what everyone's told you, from all the external influences and how much is come out internally? Oh, because if something that would be similar, if you were born entirely someone else and like a different gender and everything else, then there's a spark that's you. Because all the other things, because of your gender, because of your couch, because of your being in all the things that you've learned from your family and so on, are all things that come outside and tell you who you are.

[00:05:00.565] 

So it's about who would you be, what would still be there of your across all of those things?

[00:05:12.165] 

I think it will be more like what I was going was more like what I am now because I was all those social conditioning, if you like, external conditioning up until well, I guess call it a mid-life crisis if you want. But up until my 30s, 40s, in fact, and then I kind of had a situation where on the self reflecting and started to actually be more myself in a way I grew up, if you like, became more mature.

[00:05:50.005] 

And then recently I went through this divorce. I grew up again, and especially in this last phase, a lot more of the time because I stopped the notion of these being seeing the well, I said being the perfect father wasn't perfect, but being conditioned into being OK, the husband. So you do this and you sacrifice everything and all the rest of it. And that was at the expense of being bigger. And so what I now sort of the kind of things that will come out of it is perhaps about messing around.

[00:06:30.595] 

That's just me. I like to do that. Have a laugh. I mean, those things need to be serious. I can be quite serious, quite analytical, but I think I don't want to sit there and have a long career. And I mean, don't get me wrong, I like an intellectual debate, though. And again, I like it as well. But it is something I will sit there and begin to have when something comes up.

[00:06:57.955] 

I quite enjoyed it. So I think the key thing will be if you can't have a laugh, then it's probably not worth that moment. So for me, it's it's messing around really. Well, that will is the one thing that will come out. So spare a fun. Yeah. Yeah. Cheeky one as well, you know, and I know my my 13 year old works out sometimes he will do something wrong or whatever and I might pull him up on it and he'll have a kind of a cheeky come back on that kick.

[00:07:36.125] 

And you know, I take it as the understands that he's done it wrong, but he's kind of doing a cheeky comeback as well. And it's perfectly fine. You know, I like that sort of thing or I will do something and he will take the milk out of me. And that's perfectly fine. I like that. It's a bit like I went to have a chest x ray because my dick is something and I just had to jump around like this.

[00:08:03.745] 

And the nurse said, But you've got to take the jumper, you can't do the extra jumper. So I said, yeah, but. I don't have anything underneath it that you still have to. So I said, OK, but on the one condition that people laugh at my belly. And she looked at me and she went now she said, I want the world to love me. So I thought that was great. You know, I just I thought I'd come back.

[00:08:28.205] 

The love with a straight face. I wasn't quite sure, but she was joking. But the point is, is that kind of sense just humor makes you smile. For me, that's that's one of the most memorable. And keep anyone. I actually came for a old I born in one country, then my family moved to another country and I end up now in UK. So for me, I've been into different cultures. I learn three different cultures and they'll be honest.

[00:09:12.925] 

If I could change again, I wouldn't be the same person. I wouldn't be the same person because I wouldn't go through the same stories, the same pain, the same pleasure. That's actually what they ship us. OK, so is there a part of you that if you were. Both an entirely different family, a different gender. Completely different social background. What would be the part that would still be deciding what's the like, the part that is Janosz?

[00:09:59.965] 

Without any external. If the parents wouldn't be the way, they wouldn't teach me to wait, how I went through so far, probably I would still remain for that child. Kind of little behavior mentality, which actually, as you see the world, is that kookiness is that's the coldest city when you're looking out for the world to grow, to look at something, whereas the beauty is something what you want to expand experience. But it's all depending on the experience, what you got, because the stock you as a child, because you can't make it longer.

[00:10:54.345] 

I think I have something I wouldn't want to change my sense of independence, pushing boundaries. That's me. I like to lose, I sense I sense that from knowing you from meet ups, because your story seems to have been that you fought against what was imposed on you. So, yeah, I could sense that that was. Tom. That was something that I think is inherently a new. Were are you going to share something? Yes, hello, um, I don't know if it's right or not, but I said I wanted to be an American Indian chief, a male because of the.

[00:11:47.075] 

Well, I like how they go, how. And then I like they're always in charge and they're always people who get you get looked up to. So like in my family and my friends, I'm always the organizer, always the one that sorts out this, that and the other and kind of the top, like the king or the queen. And I thought it would be good to maybe have be the male side of it and also to learn the spirituality that they know, like the rain dances and the voodoo and things like that.

[00:12:20.195] 

How and if you were in that position, what do you think you would have in common with who you are now? Oh, I'd be really busy and really organized and just I was just trying to help everyone as well. So if there's a problem, I, I feel that the American Indian chief, the top guy is when people go to them, when they've got problems or if they just want to have a chat or whatever and maybe a bit of healing as well because, you know, talking and that with healing and stuff.

[00:12:57.375] 

OK, thank you. Thank you.

[00:13:01.345] 

Anyone else you buy that you just phrased that question when you said, what would you have in common as the other version of you with the current news? But how can you quantify that? Because we were saying that so much of who we are is our nature or nature and nurture. In other words, we don't choose our parents, so we don't choose our genetics and the personality in that sense. And we don't choose where we're born and the culture and the education.

[00:13:28.335] 

So how can we say what all of us in a different environment would actually carry over? Definitive and scientifically? We can't, but it's about trying to separate. All of life is a story, and it's the story of what happened to me. It's the story of the situation I'm in. So all of that is a story, and so we can't we can't really scientifically, but in somewhere in that story, there's a sense of who you intrinsically and how much has happened because of our circumstances.

[00:14:17.235] 

So you're right in terms of the genetics and things like that, that's very difficult. But it's more in a sense of we've talked about layers of the onion. Now, most of those on the external are what you look like, who who are like the family you came from, what you've believed, what your experiences have been. But in the core of that, somewhere there's something that's inherently you. So it's trying to get to that. Does that make sense?

[00:14:52.895] 

Yeah, that does make sense, but if you say this part, that's inherently you, then wouldn't that shift if you had different genetics with different parents?

[00:15:06.345] 

Possibly it would depend. So genetics, I'm telling you, we'll give you most of how intelligent you are that give you most of your temperament as you have your extrovert introvert whenever your how where you are neurotic spectrum. So give you lots of that. But maybe is there something to like, something you talked about that sense of independence, of wanting to be who she was, regardless of the circumstances. Everyone and Janell's talked about having a spirit of fun.

[00:15:53.535] 

So that's not maybe some of that's genetic, but we can't really separate because we I mean, we still don't even really know who is who is genetic and who's been and what is genetic. We're still figuring out that. But this is more in terms of because we never actually can do this. But it's a way of going, OK, what are these outliers? The army. And what's the core of who I am? So it's more of a story of how you're constructing it than actual scientific reality.

[00:16:30.985] 

Course, sorry, you're about to say something. Thank you for your patience, and that's fine, I think. I can't believe I picked up on it from the onset, which is what it points to, which is a fundamental philosophical question. What's at your core? I would say, Sandra, we had a good chat about it and that there is the nature nurture thing. But what about beyond that? And we were also talking about different classes.

[00:17:01.555] 

And it is quite common that you can have people who are from the upper echelons who are really trashy. So some of them are stuck with that in mind. It really does tap into something to say, is there a part of us which is really philosophical, but is there a part of us that comes into this world already as we are? It's not formed and changed. And I was thinking of the line from The Matrix versus the Matrix. Cannot tell you who you are, which is interesting.

[00:17:39.355] 

I don't really have a clear answer, but I just want to say that it definitely points to something interesting close. And that is that and this is quite a hard thing to talk about. But you can meet someone so lovely and just tick so many boxes and then there's no chemistry. So that has to relate to something deeper that connects and bonds beyond just ideas of ourselves.

[00:18:03.635] 

I think and I think that you've raised a really big point, that there is always that nature. But nature and nurture have to work on something that has to be a seed, that has to be something to nurture. So is so I believe that this is a blueprint and it's a blueprint of its genetics and it's it's something that's unique to you. And then that plays out in the environment. And I think of it is like a plant. If you see the plant in the wrong environment and wolves roam around.

[00:18:51.155] 

So it's going to wither. But if you put it in the right optimal, then it turns out to be whatever it was meant to be. So, yeah, I think there is definitely that. Sense of something beyond nature, nurture, because otherwise what is there to nurture and. Yes, so I think there is. I look at people as being an idea, like an idea, like the world, like the Matrix is a context to explore and express an idea and the idea.

[00:19:33.985] 

Do you think the idea is a physical thing as a biological perhaps in the brain, or do you think that idea is a non-physical thing, as in some metaphysical spirit? Well, all of this depends on all of this, depends on, you know, when we talk about connection, level of connection, the level two to the connection of life. So it depends on how you how you, whatever your representation of that is. And if if it is that you you believe in, like souls and stuff like that, then then.

[00:20:11.125] 

Yeah. And some people will believe it comes from past lives and there's some spirit of energy. But really, life is just energy. Everything in life is. Just a flowing energy and the energy that is ours isn't the law of energy that it can never be destroyed, can't be created, can't be destroyed. So there's just energy. And so, therefore, what we are is an expression of the energy. So if you want to take it really deep, yeah, there is nothing really personal.

[00:20:52.525] 

Yeah, but if if energy can't be created or destroyed, then how do we blame death? Well, Daffy's is a personal construct that is a human construct because, of course, there is a physical death. But in terms of that energy, when you look at energy. The energy cell, the body disintegrates and becomes part of the soil and then it like that soil then becomes something. So the energy just continuously flows, but it changes form.

[00:21:33.735] 

So while the energy may be human and then it becomes non-human. So because we look at the world from a human construct of that, everything matters in human terms, the way we have dominion over the planet. But actually the world's been going for billions like the life when you look at Big Bang has been getting millions and billions of years and we're just one expression of millions. So when we say that you like life ends because we die, it doesn't have we become if we were extinguished as a species, if the planets extinguished the energy, still something else.

[00:22:23.465] 

So life always goes on. Life always expresses itself. And what we cannot hear when you go really deep is what expression of life. Away right now. But what you need to start thinking about energy and life in terms that are quite difficult, in the sense that we are looking at each other, so we see our physical form. But in terms of energy, we have to think in more abstract terms. You start thinking about energy that you can't see, but you may experience, for example.

[00:23:06.235] 

And if you think of things and think of energy, terms of sound, light, um, wind, it's it takes you away from having a defined form.

[00:23:20.875] 

And in other words, I'm trying to get that there is there energies that you can't package as neatly as the human form? And in that regard, then I think it is easier for us to think of energy morphing from one state to another. And that's what it's what what happens in the real world. We move from one state to the other, energy from one state to the other. It can be excited. It can be addressed. It can be seen as light.

[00:23:57.305] 

It can be heard a sound. It can be seen as movement. So there are different forms of energy. And if we think of ourselves and our expressions, those are all manifestations of of energy that we emanate from us.

[00:24:17.155] 

But we are a manifestation of energy. Then that's interesting. When you said what did you just say? What what are we I mean, what else could we be other than what we are human?

[00:24:28.075] 

Well, um, so when we're looking at we're energy manifesting. So in that sense, we we're manifesting as a human human form. So. What makes energy manifest in different phones? So what makes the difference between a human, between a dog, between a flower or a tree? So maybe this is what's different is is an idea, isn't it? Yeah. Is the idea the intention behind the energy that the intention is that that is that's the difference.

[00:25:13.775] 

Yeah. Yeah. So which is it. I mean, could you have the intention to be a dog or plant. Well in order to to shape the energy, there has to be some intention to that blueprint, that DNA of a dog, the DNA of a human being I have a tree is what shapes the energy into. Into what it is. So we couldn't we can't go from like from the level of guy like I'm a dog and transmute that, but there is something behind like Deep...

This episode is the last of our three keys to successful relationships.

In part one of this three part series, we talked about connection being how we created our experience and that relationships were the vehicle through which we create connection.

We talked about there being a constant flow from feeling connected to disconnected and how conversation is the mechanism through which we create connection.

In this episode we talked about what caused disconnection.

Transcript

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the past, helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. Tonight is the third part of the free keys to successful relationships, so the first key to successful relationships we talked about the whole point of. Like how we make sense of our experiences through connections and relationships are a vehicle for feeling comfortable creating that connection. Then we talked about there being a flow from connection to disconnection and conversation being the mechanism through which we create connection.

So tonight we're talking about what breaks connection, what creates disconnection. So what struck you in your discussions in the breakout room? Anyone have any thoughts? I think we were discussing lack of interest, the other person, at least that's one area that we don't. But if the other person I lovely engaging with the partner that can potentially cause this connection because the trust is not being listened to or being OK. So for me, that would probably come on the respect.

Would that be an accurate reading for you? It may be I mean, it's not so much. Well, it depends on the time respect, I guess, but it's not so much if the other person isn't showing interest in what you have to say or what you are doing or what's happening in your life or what kind of they are with you as such. But they expect that they're not putting anything into the relationship. And that's something in a more emotional way or in a psychological way than a contributing into.

So as an engagement like being engaged, being involved. Yeah. Yeah, ok. OK, so what determines whether someone's engaged or if they disengage, they call it more like a fixed mentality when the person doesn't want to marry your fiance. It's like staying in the comfort zone doesn't want to expand it, it's just all the time. That's my knowledge. I'm already at the door and I don't want to any more. So many people happening. When they finished high school, they stopped learning.

And when it's not good, growing mindset's, let's put it this way.

OK, so how does that how how does that break connection? Basically over the time you will lose interest because that is nothing new. What you can learn with that, that's nothing new. What you can do with that person, no activity all the time. The same things you will talk about, because eventually we'll run out from the things to see just all the time. You will still complain the person actually ending up in the complain loop. So the person only see the bad habits doesn't searching for the great opportunity for the future.

So the goal mind set this all the time to looking how you can break through the barrier barrier as long as the fix mentality is just black and white. Yes, no good, bad. Just labeling all the time and whenever you leave, but you actually don't have a time to go to the sense you don't need to label emotion. You don't need to label anything in the life, just experience it, just have it just to be there. OK, so this is really talking about in general, when we talked about Mostri, about the Toblerone and that that would be like the hacker, just happier a level.

And so what you're saying is we've got the growth growth mindset. There's going to come a point at that plateau where someone is unhappy with that and that's what's going to be like.

So let me go back a bit, because it's so what exactly happens when one person is at that plateau and then you said the other person gets to be more critical of them and I start to kind of complain. You basically what's happening when the fix mentality and all the time just feel like the other person at criticise, but my mindset all the time bluntly.

So you've won palmitate, global mindset. It's all the time. Want to improve all the time, want something bigger, achieve more in the future. That's how it's supposed to be in my perspective. If the other person just told me to just stay in the bubble doesn't look anything. OK, so. What what what about if they're both fixed mindset, if it's both, it can be at the same time it can be stopped. It can have some argument.

Because it's black and white, so I have a right no, I have a right, no, I have a right along the good old mindset. Yes, you may, OK, you have the right. But I still keep my right as well. So what is happening there? What's the point where it's breaking? Don't compromise. Yeah, basically just win lose, one of them will have to win another one have to lose an end date.

I believe everybody should win. Everybody should take something from it. But that means compromise and compromise. You have to discuss you have to discuss it to and fro and you find common ground and if you can't discuss with respect, then you're not going to succeed. Because if you have no respect, you are going to have anger and other destructive elements coming into play in that tug of war. You become adversaries rather than companions. I would think. OK, I think you can put a case for any number of things being the cause, but what I'm looking at is what is the trigger point?

So we've had disrespect and.

If I were taking five minutes to to clarify respect. Yes. So I'll tell you how I how I define it, I define respect as being about curiosity and being about interest in the person is about wanting to understand them as opposed to trying to control them or make them be what you want them to be. I don't know if that makes sense.

Does anyone else see it differently?

But suppose sounds like you're trying to understand this person that they. Oh, so you know who they are. And that's why you're curious and that's why you want to see them for who they are and understand them. So it's like acceptance is part of it. You accept them for who they are. Oh yes. Yes. Because the general respect for the person and that respect comes curiosity and a wanting to appreciate them as opposed to want them to match up to an expectation, especially since close the door.

Suppose it's a closed door. You are trying to communicate with someone. As you seem to appreciate, and there is no feedback, you're not getting, in other words, that's. It's a one way street, isn't that a lack of respect from them? Yes, but also it could be that they have they don't want to let you in either. And for me, that not wanting to let you in, that not engaging is about respect, because it's because if you respect someone, you engage with them, you're interested in them, and you're you're willing to have that engagement.

That should also be fair. Suppose suppose you feel that you have some deep, dark secret, such a good person. I mean, you know, and so you hide, you try to hide your true self. And so you don't respond to the cues that are coming from your partner because you have this fear.

I mean, I've I've heard people say things which seem to be rooted in fear rather than, you know, not respecting another person. But they're afraid. They're afraid of being ridiculed or afraid of not being respected themselves. So they guess so. So there's the question is with that. If you don't trust someone and that's sort of a level of respect, that it might be that there's a basis to it. But in a relationship, do you need like that's the point where you're going to break connection because you're only going to let someone in so far.

So do we always need to let someone in or because that's always going to be a point where I let you in so far. And of course, there's good reason for it. Some people have been horrifically in relationships and so they don't let people in. So do we always need that? I think that point is going to be a breaking point. But that's a philosophical question is do we always need that?

What is it you're asking, do we always need or do we need to share everything? And that relationship from a down to date, we own our mind, it's working like a muscle. We don't know what is the breaking point. So at some point you will have this level where you stop because that's your breaking point. It's working the same the mind as the muscles. So next time you can go further, you can do it further and further.

The question, how you communicate, if you can communicate and distant beep the same person, right, you can do continue with the same person, these breaking points, if you can't communicate it because you try to hide because you don't respect yourself. You cannot show respect for the other person. So quite often it's the biggest problem is the shame we feel inside. That's a shame. Only one person knows what. It's a shame ourselves the way how you tell the story.

It can be shame anymore if you don't feel shame. Yeah, yeah, I think there's nothing like shuts down communication like Shane. So you're talking about things like laziness, and I think we touched on it in the beginning when we were talking about Janice was talking about people who are just black and white and they know what they know and they really don't want to know anything else. And but from that, you can become very boring. And so the other party is bored.

And out of that, you can stop communicating because there is. And so you stop talking. And you may find that you're not shared interests at all, many, many commonalities that exist between you after a while.

So so where's the point? So you find someone boring. So differences of opinion. And so then you stop talking. But where's the point? If we analyze that zoom West Point, that stops the connection. When you stop listening to each other and relating to each other, being open to each other, so why when when, um, why do we stop relating and stop listening when you stop feeling hurt by the other person, when you stop feeling heard and respected.

OK, and so where's the point where we where we where we have that difference when we start blaming each other rather than taking the responsibility? They like to be a little bit more victimized and be saying, no, everything against me, the world, against me, you're against me. So we start blaming all the others and taking responsibility. Whatever we do, how we respond, it's our responsibility.

Or you stop reacting to the person completely ignore them.

Some people. Give up too easily, won't work at relationships, so that's why, you know, and gone. It was it was 10 guys over 10 days and now suddenly something maybe something's gone wrong. Either way, you know why you was feeding onto the foreman. The boring line gone. They just lost the job. I'm not saying it has to be always extreme what they just had an argument with. Well, today, you don't excite and you're not funny and you can work through that.

There's there's just one low. And that's just a just one argument. Might be a monologue. So you might say, well, I'm done. You know, there's other instict, higher levels where it's Bigelow's is losing jobs, losing family bereavement. And some people do give up too easily. I had a point before and I couldn't quite get an. Well, while that's on your mind, let's look at that. So why would someone give up like that if you were to put it down to one quality?

Well, some people, you know, some people do give into easily. Some people say we're more of a throwaway society these days, as in life. Right. There is the temptation of a line so easily where some people I'll tell you what we got when I got this tunnel, the women over the table, I'm just going to move on so quickly. So you two, are you talking about short term relationships? No, not necessarily, but, you know, the you know, you've got laptops, you've got mobile phones, some people do give in so easily, just up to one low one argument, one where on one going not so your personality on Gaullism.

Nine out of ten, constantly no more. And it's not amazing. So I don't know, I'm just going to give in and move on too quickly.

If you would put one word on why give up. What would you say? Commitment. To make it respect, it can be respected as another one word respect as well. So these commitments, some people might just go. Now, I'm not willing to commit to that. Could it be value as well as that money, which is where this is headed by just boat? Yeah, to me, it came down to they don't see value and and or secondly, they don't believe it will be they believe it's going to work out, which really is they don't believe you're going to be of value to them, which is which I think a lot of there is a snap decision because of the nature of online dating.

Some people blame it on alcohol and drugs as well. Well, at the time we were getting old and it was full of five points longer and it was more fun opportunities.

But it also depends on what you have put into the relationship, how much you have invested into the relationship and where it is that kind of tempers, whether you just pick up the suitcase and walk through the door or you make an attempt to try to find some common ground, because if you have not invested much, then it's very easy to say, I can't be bothered with this.

This is just too much of a bloomin headache. I'm gone and you walk out. Whereas if you have invested and have connected with not just the person, but we all come from families and we have networks, we have domestic situations that we get, you know, connected in with and so forth. And it depends on what you have to disentangle as well. That sometimes puts a brake on a person just barging out and saying that they can't be bothered and they will calm down and reassess the situation.

So I think it's it depends if it's a new relationship and you have to put down any roots, it's easy to say plenty more fish in the sea. I'm gone. This one is too much problems.

Whereas if it's somebody that you have children with, you have a mortgage with, you have whatever and all of those things, you are more, I think, tempted to to sit down and analyze what is going wrong and figure out if there is a way to work through it.

If not, then you go. But I think there is another step in that that scenario. Doesn't that relate to values as well? Because if somebody says I don't want to leave because I value my children, that's why they stay home, because I value plenty of people that still walk away even though they have kids, because apparently they don't value their children. Exactly.

So it's you know, it's because sometimes people walk away from their children. And if you know the details, then you probably can understand. Maybe not, you know.

But I think also one more usually happening. That's especially in the bedroom, because they are not able to open for each other about their imaginations, what they want. So because they are unable to open, sometimes they are searching out. And that's why he's speaking out, because they're also a little bit afraid what the other person will see. If I like this, what if I like that? You know, quite often women especially have more imagination or decide, but ministers were happy and afraid.

They get just because of the social things, whatever, and they afraid the partner will not accept that, which I think it's bullshit because if you are open to each other, you will accept whatever just the least. And it sort of doesn't. Good. So what does she was saying earlier about sort of throwaway society and how people connecting through the Internet, and I think that if you meet somebody through a group or through work or just through your general life or less quick to treat people in a throwaway manner because you have to face them again.

And therefore those I would describe that as having more care, love and respect and value for an individual rather than block delete more.

Yeah, there's a level of it can affect your social status, like your reputation among your network if if you're seen to act badly, whereas online you've got no connection. No one's going to know. Yeah, I think that's true. And I think, yes, we could look at what breaks connection and there's a whole lot of factors. And I think shame is a big one. I think disrespect. I think the growth and fixed mindset is a real issue, and I think we take responsibility.

But for me, the breaking point is conflict is where we have that difference of opinion. And because I think all of those things feed into I think shame stops us talking openly about our differences of opinion and which relates to what Janice said, like particularly when you look at the main things that people argue, it's money, sex, children like social family, social things, household chores. And so like that is the whole patriarchy change the treatment and where it's like the whole Christian dogma where you can't really talk about sex openly.

Money equally has like the slightest thing of keep up with the Joneses. And I'm going to tell people when you're in debt and all these things. So there's levels of shame in there. And of course, when you have children, you like it. It's difficult to walk away from children. And sometimes we don't know the full story, but there's a judgment that's going to happen to us anyway.

So really, conflict is about so stellar. I know you dropped out, but so we say in a conflict that it could be any one of a number of issues. But conflict is real, really the point of difference. Now, I think we can have differences, but when we were able to communicate about them and we were able to be open about them and we're respectful and we like we're working together and growing together and we take responsibility for those differences, then it becomes a point where you can grow and develop and deepen the bond.

But the problem comes when we have those points of differences and we don't talk about them or we don't confront them. And often people are willing to be open. And so you get this passive aggressive thing of you should know and no one really saying what they really the real issue is there's this sense of we feel the shame or we feel where we don't want to. We get defensive and don't really want to discuss it or we become critical in trying to control the other person.

And so that conflict conflict makes us more and more entrenched. And so it breaks the communication. And with that, when once we break the communication, then we start mind reading, we start judging the other person and we start to see them as the enemy. And that's where the disconnection comes in. So I think it'd be worth yeah. And then there's this pride and ego and all of those things that then become difficult and like, okay, so let's have a quick poll in the room of who is comfortable with conflict.

No. So most people think about 50 50, so wouldn't be so comfortable with conflict, remain comfortable and you can...

There are three keys to successful relationships. Last week we discussed week 1, which was connection. This week we discuss the mechanism for connection.

Transcript

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the past, helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips.

OK, so tonight, what we here to discuss is the three keys to successful relationships. And tonight we're going to discuss part two. So the first key is connection. So we talked about relationships being the mechanism by which we get connection with other people and connection being the way that we make sense of the world last week.

So. We we were talking about what that all relationships flow between various types of connection to this connection, and it may be that you like you right out of connection. You're right. Disconnected, which means that the relationship is not very enjoyable. And so the relationship probably breaks and but often there's a flow between the two. And so what we're looking at tonight is what is the mechanism that we can feel more connected? So just some housekeeping for me, if anyone whose in need we this call is recorded in the main room, the breakout rooms are recorded.

We don't use the video. So I think everyone's got their video on, especially in the breakout rooms. If you can use your video, if it's convenient, it just helps people see where you are and so that we can feel more connection. The philosophy to the groups we talked about, the Fink free rebellion, meaning that life is really about who philosophically we believe that life is really about us becoming ourselves without being swayed by dogma, other people's ideas, by emotions, or I've been swayed by short term emotions or by ignorance.

And so what we really hear about is to work out our own ideas of what's right for us. OK, so in the breakout rooms, you were discussing what had preceded or what had caused you to feel connection? Does anyone want to share the experiences already, insights they had?

OK, so so I'm sharing with Kareem and I don't know if I heard the story, but so where if he is going left in this house, which had three three flats. And so I was out putting my bins one sort of late summer evening and somebody came onto the property. No, I wasn't sure whether it could be somebody going to a factory or something like that. So I didn't really pay attention. And she asked me about the basement flat because there was a sign, a tilak sign.

And and I said, oh, I don't know. So I just continued. And then she kept on persisting and I was just ignoring her. I just thought, you know, just answer the question and continued what I was doing. So I just had one of these things to put outside. So I had to go out again and walk round round a bit and put the bed. And she was still there. And on the third attempt, she said something.

And instantly I found my wall just dropped that barrier I had. And I just looked at her and I suddenly was connected and with such a surreal thing, she just asked me whether she just asked me whether I practiced Reiki, which is something that I do. And I don't know what made her say that. But then she just offered me a card. And if you really get to connect and if you're interested in Reiki and then we had a discussion about Reiki, but it was only if only when she said something that I guess I was.

Already connected to that that ball drops, but she was obviously still interested in that basement, that things like that, I mean, that didn't change, but she just came out with that. So, yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. So we talked about, like, there have been different layers of the onion. Last week we did. Yeah. And so, like, the flat downstairs is like the most superficial layer where she'd gone to something a little bit deeper and she said, well, I thought she was observing me.

She wasn't going away. So I was busy my head. I was just wanting to get the bins out. So it was a 10, 15 minute job I have to put out rolling it down. It was my turn. You know, we have to share that duties for a few bins so she doesn't go away. It's really just when she said that. So I suspect she was observing me and then said something which which didn't make me connect with her.

Stop and look. But my answer was not enough, it seemed. Well, obviously, contact the letting agency I was thinking of and there wasn't enough, so but yeah, and it's great because three months later I went to a birthday party and. Yeah. I mean, really connected. It was lovely seeing her. Yeah, so what would you so what do you think it was that you had something in common? Yes, I think yeah, there was a commonality there.

Some think that perhaps. Yeah, that I was already connected to something that I was connected to that she's like, for example, if she started to speak French to me, I wouldn't say, look, because it's, you know, my second language. And so I would. Would connect the two because it's unusual to find a French speaker sort of, you know, just just so yeah, I would probably have the accent and then would have maybe spectrum French and then there would have been a connection, but there was none of that.

So, yeah, finding something that is that you're connected with but married in the other person. Perhaps starts the connection in some way. Well, it brought my ball down because I then really turn to look at her and I hadn't before. OK.

Thank you, guy, does anyone else have any other examples that I can relate to in that I think that I felt connected with people, the previous partners, a cell phone that showed an interest in me, that interests me. So I guess it can be on the level of connecting interest or something or digging deeper. But I think that's that's when I feel that someone can feel connected to a person. When so when you feel understood and you feel that they're showing an interest, they care.

Yeah. Concern. I think my example is, oh, my goodness, I tried to go very deep. I hope I don't upset anybody with this one.

My best friend, who I met my first week at university. She is. The closest thing to a sister that I have because I have no sisters and we've been through everything, and some years ago her husband was found to have was diagnosed with colon cancer.

And from that, we had known each other, all of us, the three of us from university. And when he got the diagnosis, they lived together in Florida, every every doctor's visit, everything doing the research. We all we were all doing the cancer trips with me here. But she was doing the research, whatever any new thing, any new development, doctors visits, everything. We were going through it all, all of us, the three of us.

And he he went into remission and we thought, yes, it was OK. And then, of course, as usual, it's always on a New Year's Eve or New Year's Day. You get the bad news that it's back anyway to fastforward. He was terminal and he was going he was dying. And then he decided that he wants to go home from the hospital to die. He wanted to die at home. And I spent I don't know how many hours together, the three of us in the room, me here, she there him down on the phone until he died.

And. I don't know that I can get as close as that to anybody. Again. When he went when he drew his last breath, she says he's gone and the two of us were just there, the silence, the connection, we never had to say much. We were just there together. And. I've never I've never felt that deep connection with even my husband. Sorry, A.. Yeah, but that's that that to me was a connection that I don't know, that's that's my benchmark.

But I, I think so many times, like you've apologized and we feel that we shouldn't raise deep emotions. And really what connects us is the deep emotions. And it's like that shared experience. I don't think you can get a deeper connection and sharing something like that with someone. But it also it's hard when you are when you when you look at other connections, meaningful connections, if you know what I mean. It's kind of like, OK, yeah, it's OK, but it's you know, because you've been you've been all the way down there, uh.

I think the question is, how can we? Develop those connections without tragedy, even without. How can we develop them more consciously?

That's really a hard question, but we had a different part to the discussion, if I may. That he joined us and we were talking about feeling connected with being a two way street and feeling valued, feeling the sense of openness in in one respect. Betty pointed out that you may have baggage that. Well, I was point out that maybe if you have baggage, sometimes that prevents you from actually being receptive and being open and really connecting with somebody else.

And she pointed out that sometimes if somebody is willing to work with you through your issues, that that can bring about a sense of deep connection. And actually that that can be quite good. Know, I suppose the point about somebody working with you through the issues you have is that it's a case of them being there for you. And I think your point about what Rob was just saying in response to Sandra's story is that when you share an emotional moment when you need someone, I think that brings us to someone.

So I think I mean, I wonder, can we make a deep connection with someone if we don't have some sort of strategy? In other words, if we just share good times with people, where do we have the opportunity to actually know that they are there for us and that they will be there for us when the inevitable happens in life? Because we can never say that they will be there. If we don't know that. If we haven't tested that, I think really what really makes a bond is when there is some sort of tragedy or an opportunity for them to actually prove or show that they'll be there.

I think that's true. I just like to make a point first. Now, we've only been here for half an hour and you've been in separate rooms, who feels more connected to Sandra now? After that story, because it's sharing an experience and so I think so how do how do we know? We don't know until we see it. And that's the thing about. A terrible experience is that we can't know that someone will really be there for us until we're in it.

Know people will always going to say, hey, I'm your friend. I'm always going to be there. I'm your partner. I'm always going to I'm always going to love you. But until you actually pay that price. No one knows, and I think it's the it's the emotions that come. Barry Bonds is the. Actual experience is the actual knowing that someone is there, because what what is it really when someone shares that experience, its compassion, its trust, you know, that they're not going to have you know, that they're and there's something about when we have a superficial conversation, it's just words.

But when we have a. An experience. It's it connects us more emotionally, it affects us more. So so the. So how can we do it consciously, so I think we can share in joy. We can. And I think I mean, this is what our this is our quest tonight is to find out how can we consciously create more connection? I think with Nicole, we had we touch this subject a little bit about it's actually we was talking about as the kid we actually, you know, choosing the experience.

We just do it. We are there as depressants and as adults. It's the new experience that they seemed. Forty seven percent of our adult time, we are in our head. So we actually all the time be creating or we try to create our future or our past. So we're not in the presence. We're not experienced in defense. And from Sara Assunta studies, I really get it that to be dead even in the silent. It's already in the presence just to be there, don't need the word just to be there and expedient.

And so many times we just think when somebody sees something, then I lose them, just Sandra's stories, I didn't even have to imagine. I felt it had emotion. And that's how we get connected. I believe so. So can I say something? Yeah, sure. And so when we was talking in the break up, when we was all of a sudden when you're on the same frequency with someone, so in this situation last been in this group, now someone just sharing that with us, we now have a piece of sound.

Just so she said something that, you know, she went through really meant a lot to her as she shared that with us so we could have a little bit more of an understanding of Sandra's personality and the kind of woman that she is. When we was in the breakout rooms, we was talking more about maybe the really superficial because we're was talking about how when you felt a connection with someone, what's happened just before that. And I was just thinking maybe back to like a past relationship that I've had.

And when I felt connected to them, it's been when we've maybe been laughing and we've just been ourselves, we're laughing with each other because we've been alone so frequent saying we're having fun. And then I realized has a big factor to do that. But I was thinking more in a romantic setting, in a relationship. Yeah, I think that that's true, like, that's how, you know, when people die because of the fun times that they can because and I associate that person with that sometimes.

And like from affection and people connect from sex because it's a shared experience, because from being affectionate from even so. So that's. Yeah. So there's different levels. So for me, it's like it's slightly different though, because I know when I've been in groups I struggle with big group. So we feel like really uncomfortable. And I was in this part of this one group and I was really uncomfortable. But it was when when I let my vulnerability be shown or when I was truly saying that's when I felt the connection.

And I don't know if anyone's come across Brene Brown, but if you listen to her talk on the power of vulnerability and she says it's that that vulnerability is what drives connection. So when you let yourself be truly saying that's when when you feel connection with people. Yeah, yeah, very true. And so if we're looking at that point, what's the opposite? So if we were vulnerable, we we have that connection. What creates the disconnection? I think when you're not being true, you're not being your true self.

And so Brian Brown talks a lot about shame and because shame shuts us up, we don't talk about things because we feel shame. And so we've got so in every moment, we've got a choice where we can be vulnerable and connect. Or we can not be vulnerable, the opposite, which is the response to shame and disconnect, so. OK, so sorry. Did you touch on shame? And because you mentioned Brownie Brown. Brownie Brown is that I'm hearing the same the same as a TED talk, but she's she's done a couple of these too.

I remember very vividly remember when she made a distinction between shame and guilt. And that's quite important distinction to make because she said feeling guilty is that you've done something wrong. While shame is to say that I am wrong, there's something wrong with me. And I really stuck with me that distinction, because it was only once I understood shame and that in that way that it was. Help to unpack some some things I was going through at the time, but she's absolutely correct.

No one's actually come across that. She's actually amazed that TED talk was very powerful and they just wanted to just make that distinction. Thank you for that. That's really a good distinction because. So much of our childhood, I go to school when you've got 30 kids in a class or five hundred kids in the school, you want to control them. And the weapon that they use is often shaped like your, you know, like a teacher or a parent stretched.

And it's it's not like you're doing this bad thing at all. You're always like that. You're always naughty. Why are you always being in pain? And so we grow up with all this sense of shame and so many times, like we grow up into a world that's already going. And so we weren't there at the start of it. And so we're joining this world that's already going trying to find the rules like this is like a treadmill of of the world's moving and we want to let go.

What am I supposed to do? What do I do here? And. So what happens is we think there's a rule of what we should be doing, what we shouldn't be doing, and we inherently feel like I don't know other people, and because we we experience our world internally. But we expect other people externally, so it looks like everyone else has got it all together. And so there's all this this shame and this so much comes out in relationships like the, you know, the Facebook relationship, the Instagram relationship, where people have to make it seem like they're perfect, because if they if they if they showed the reality of their relationship, it's like, why?

Why doesn't he love me? Why doesn't why why is he looking at other people? All of these things mean that we don't talk honestly and openly about relationships. And that's really what this group started with, with just a place where you could talk openly and honestly about relationships. So yes, sir, thank you. That was always.

Hi, guys. You hear me? Yes, we can. Oh, hello. It's really amazing what everyone said. I've been absolutely blown away, especially what Sandra said. I just want to say thank you to for being just basically been in tears. I wasn't able to speak because that was just like I thought, a very similar experience when I was listening to Saddam. He took me through my own experience together. And it was just I just want to say thank you and allow you to know what I was trying to say earlier.

But my aim was to work with was the apple crumble connects me to see what makes the noise from bull. And even even we've joked now free episodes, and I think this is all that's to blame for, oh, if if we if we have to have an apple crumble addiction recovery group, I'm blaming IRA. And because we've had that joke about three weeks now that there's a level of connection. No, Brownlee's, I'm not I'm not going there.

If you're going to go millionaires' shortbread or a little hot with a bit of ice chocolate chip cookies count. I'm not really.

I had one today. I thought to myself, oh, okay.

Think all jokes aside, the food really does people like more than anything else. So I, I'm like the spoiler and getting all the food ready and the kids are all stuck around like with the foil. And I know it's like it really bothers everyone, all the food cooking and all the smells and everyone helping each other. It's like very tribal, very tribal, which I think is really missing in society at the moment. But it's a shared purpose, I suppose.

Yeah. And I think it's also like an actual campfire because that's where everyone gathered and it's a natural gathering point. Whereas now we've got Facebook and we go Instagram, but that they bring their own difficulties.

I've got a of occasions.

Sorry I this I had that on Saturday, so it's funny enough. It's like such a back story. So. Yeah, exactly. So I had sister that also. So then I had the kids round so my kids came down from the slums and. Yeah....

When you analyse a problem, you'll find that most of the problem is in a lack of clarity and not defining the issue.

I believe one of the most misunderstood aspects of relationships are that we see relationships as the goal.

Relationships are a mechanism, but not the goal.

The goal is connection. In this episode we went on a quest to understand connection and disconnection at a deeper level.

Transcript

[00:00]

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships. The podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. I believe that there's free keys to relationships. So that's what we're going to do in the next free meet ups. So tonight we're going to talk about key number one and I believe key number one is connection. So tonight, we're going to be on a quest and we've got Betty and Janell's leading our quest to look at the connection and disconnection.

[00:49]

So we started off in a breakout rooms by discussing when we felt from experience connected or disconnected in relationships. So what did you find? What ideas did you have or any comments, feedback from the discussion? I like the idea of connection or disconnection. Well, he felt that the central feeling at the heart of. Feeling connected is to be supported. So first of all, we look for examples where we felt connected and we kind of reversed, engineered and looked for examples where we didn't feel connected.

[01:37]

So an example was where somebody was trying to communicate with someone and the person wasn't listening because they were on the phone and they had a blank expression on their face. So we said the opposite of that. Then obviously to be listened to and to feel heard and to feel respected and the feelings around that word, to feel acknowledged and for someone to show a genuine interest and to ask questions, you also felt. Another example is when someone shows genuine concern and asks questions and it's like what's bothering you?

[02:11]

And they listen. So the feelings we have were like feeling lighter, feeling validated, respected, respected of your needs and empathy and uplifted and embraced. And really we felt that when people felt heard, they felt relaxed and at the central feeling. So that was to feel supported. And that that was what was one of the most important things to feel connected to someone like.

[02:41]

That's great, thank you. Any other comments from that from that group? And what else? OK, journalist. We may need more find it, this connection, it's coming from the communication, the behavior and expectations. So that came out that like object, the object is change or our common goal is change over the time. He showed us three changes in overtime, so like trying to get over.

[03:25]

It's like it was a situation where somebody wanted to take the other one wanted for kids over the time. So they wanted weekend house or they wanted more like a flat. It can be between each other. It's changed to goals like. That could be the case as well. Yes. Oh, yes. We had a contest issues as well when we feel disconnected. It's unable, actually, to open the other person. So, yeah, honest communication is.

[04:16]

Too much comfort. OK, as in, they got complacent with each other and. Over the time, you know, after a couple of years, they get too much comfort with each other, so they're not doing the same way like in the beginning.

[04:35]

Yeah, too much to keep and not compromise. One person to match, the other one is not compromise. OK? Distance getting critique and called. Distance and it's critics and cause. OK. Lack of respect. And the personal presence. OK, so so like the other groups there where some of you are talking, but not really they're.

[05:18]

OK, can I add something there, Rob? Yes, you just I mean, sometimes, you know, there might be a number of instances, but, you know, obviously sometimes you meet someone and it might be a bit lost in the it or, you know, oh, do make me laugh, you know? So it's I'm not saying it's first day, our first date stuff, but as you get into knows when you might go, that I forget all the, you know, really attractive.

[05:47]

And yeah, sometimes you might not know the personal first by you as you get to know one six months down the line. That's why you might become disconnected, because it's not all just about attraction and gone. They're not fully twenty four, seven or every time you see them, they're not fully normal because I see him five days a week now, but I only used to see him on a Saturday night. While all the effort that made me laugh, I'm trying to say and I'm going to quickly compare that to I used to see my son for two hours a week.

[06:24]

So that two hours is just a highlight, again, a day can be four hours, five hours, whatever it is, and it's just it's all good when you see somebody four times a week, it can't all be good. Yeah, I wouldn't say none gone well, I see in four days a week now, and he's not falling all the time now, was we? What we used to eat once a week is full and. And I just got a few comments as well, will show that basically we're talking about disconnection when a man goes into his cave, which is the classic book, Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, men retreat into the cave.

[07:12]

And that can confuse a woman is confuse me in the past. But I respect the differences. And I would also say that I like to retreat into my cave as well. But men don't always understand that. So it's kind of always getting a little bit of a stereotype in men. And then I apologize because I realized I needed to get more specific about my own experiences rather than generalize, which is the sense that I'm learning not to do that anymore.

[07:43]

But yeah, men, they retreat. But I would like the man when he retreat and say, OK, honey, I'm off for a while, you know, I got to think about this. I will be back and I'll let you know they were ready to publish a man to just say a few things around that and they can spend all they want you to in the cave. But it's not me, they said, like a few words of respect.

[08:11]

You got me.

[08:13]

Yeah, because I think what you're saying is it's not the fact that they go to the cave. It's the fact that you don't know why they've gone to the cave. You don't know what that means.

[08:28]

Absolutely. That's what I do.

[08:31]

But why do you need to know it's there? It's it's probably a part of a ritual because I'm not a man, but I go into whatever it is that I go into.

[08:42]

Yeah. And to work when I come in after a hard day's work, don't speak to me. I don't want to talk to anybody. I'm serious.

[08:53]

I must have my cup of tea and then I'll have my shower. Then you can speak to me then.

[09:02]

It's about communication because if, if one person goes into the cave and they want their space and they want to be left alone for the other person to feel content in that relationship, to still feel that connection, is it that they need to just simply communicate and be like, I need my space? The actually we need to understand first ourselves, what is that feeling? And to know, okay, I need a little time now and after the communication, but so many of us, we not even know I need time.

[09:36]

So it's very difficult to get into the nation until you understand your own behavior, so first you need to understand yourself. Then after he was able to communicate expression, it should come from our first. We need to be able to express for ourselves, for our brain to let know what I actually want now time. And I thought that that makes sense.

[10:02]

I like the way you put that it starts with yourself and then communicating that honestly and openly.

[10:09]

Sometimes even we may not know why we are going into the cave, but you just find yourself there. But there's just the emotion is just you just feel down and you just want to get on with it yourself and you don't want to know how to talk to you about it. But you can't save a man just like, yes, if I could crumble outside the cave financial center, that would make things really, really easy.

[10:39]

But as a mom tends to get more experience when I got into my cave rather than get bored and that's what I got really mean and thought of why are we paying what what you know? And it's like, I don't a minute you can go into your case for what I go into. My case is like drama.

[11:02]

So I'd just like to say it's actually chicken and black beans or some of.

[11:10]

Look, it's not easy, but make sure you put out your socks in the board all your time. Thank you. And you did that.

[11:22]

See, I think that if we are communicating in general, we should have developed a sense of what a person.

[11:35]

What makes a person tick your partner tick what what their their work life is like, if it's a stressful type of job or if they have long days, they come in very tired, et cetera, et cetera. And I think we can go some way in helping them by trying to understand just based on the cues that we're seeing from them as well. And in that way, we can have a proper conversation.

[12:08]

We can ask questions because sometimes you are doing things and you don't even realize that what you are doing is affecting the other person negatively.

[12:21]

I think what's simple sometimes what's happening because women are waiting for the most part, I feel so deep, deep to express their base, but sometimes it does. Well, I'm not just one side, but they just form and delete couples needs to switch off. But sometimes they should do that outside. But most of them they do in front of TV.

[12:47]

Excuse me, I'm not in waiting at home for men to come home and I see Rob died with laughter. But sometimes what man is waiting for wife to come home? Wife is the wife is the bigwig and her husband is junior to wife. Husband is waiting for wife to come home. What about that situation? No, come on. I used to work seven days a week, OK? I was on call as I at some point and I used to travel a lot.

[13:20]

I used to go to a lot of international conferences. Husband had to stay home with baby even though there was a helper. OK, so I am the grumpy one. I have no one to come home. I have a cave. Not here it goes. I'm not blowing my trumpet, OK? I'm just saying that it goes both ways and time to decompress and have some space. And to my mind, if I didn't have that time to not speak, to let my hair down, just to take half the road close and just feel like a human being.

[14:03]

I don't want to hear your problems. Don't tell me about who's doing what in the office and who did what. I can't accommodate it. Give me half an hour and I'll listen to you afterwards. I'm all yours, but just give me that space. And people are often scared.

[14:20]

To be honest. I want my generally all. If you try and communicate these things that no one's perfect. But I think that when do go into that, just to give some indication if that's what's going on, even if it's not worth it to communicate, just to give some indication, sometimes coming back and being left confused and then it just makes things worse.

[14:43]

And if you like, if you're married, I absolutely get, you know, your partner inside and out, you know, all the nuances and all the other reasons. And you can like you, you can play off the keys, you know. But when you first date, when I was talking about when you first go out with somebody and you learned about them, say, in the first six months, unless were giving you stipulations, not like going to OK then.

[15:11]

And yet they they don't contact you like ages and suddenly they appear and safely and you think where the hell if they know, you know, if there's no communication that needs to be more communication. You know, it's so important. One of my love languages is how a man communicates with me. That is my love language. How many presidents like that, but how often communicated with and what they bring the apple crumble or no? I'm not going to leave that other than what I think about the point that those made when he was saying that if you start seeing someone, I mean one night a week and it's an awful and then you see the more and it's not so much, how do you maintain the connection and.

[15:58]

Okay, yeah, that's perfect timing. So whenever we talk, every problem or every situation has different levels. There's the level of the content and that's where we're talking at the moment. And when you talk from the level of the content, it's very emotive and you can't really see much other than where you are in any actual conflict. So there is the content. There's also the concept, what it's about, and then there's the concept context. So we're going to go be abstract and look at the context so that we have a full understanding of connection and how it informs what it's about, how we develop.

[16:42]

And then the question is going to be then to bring it back down to the content. So we have a bird's eye view and so we can see the different sides. Okay, so. All right, so we're going to go abstract. Okay, so, you know, there's the old case. First of all, a quick. Four on this and your first responses to what is connection and what is this connection? We cannot choose to feel known and to feel alone, you need to feel seen and heard and respected and valued.

[17:28]

OK. Also my lover. Should write a book, should write a book, you know, not love what you say. Does anyone else have any views on connection, this connection, connection is things in common? No, you're being listened to and not just if I take it. If somebody listens here on the. They've hated on what you've told them, so hang on, I hate it that you keep putting your feet up on a buffet two days later, every day of the week, the next week, you still put your feet up on the buffet.

Relationships often descend into pointless bickering.

The hill you'll die on is a way to clarify what's worth fighting for and what is a pointless argument.

Transcript

[00:00]

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. Tonight, we're talking about the Hill you'll die on, and that probably sounds a little bit. It's not very descriptive. Thing, but really what it's about is. What? What are you really willing to fight about and what is a meaningless fight for you? So the saw her look at where did it where did it come from the Hill that you will die on?

[00:49]

And it seems to be seems to have come from 1969, in 1969 in the Vietnam War, it was a battle for a hill and. The Americans lost, they say, six hundred and thirty Marines or. What more infantry and Viet Nam say fifteen hundred. And essentially, they were fighting for a hill that had no strategic value. That had no real benefit, and they gave up on it when it got when it became hard to. To win, so it was Edward Kennedy who is a senator then who named the Hamburger Hill because basically the infantry men who were killed were basically treated like mincemeat.

[01:44]

And so the hill that dying is represents. Like, if you have to if you have to, like in the military, having a hill is an advantage because it's hard to fight. And so to win, to win a hill means that it has to be something worth conquering. Now in relationships. All the fights that you're going to have were fighting for. Or are they just something you've got in the pattern of squabbling about, are they mean meaningless battles?

[02:28]

And then. In life, there's really. Fights that. The gain is not worth fighting. But there has to be something. That powers your life, something that's important to you. Because if you don't have the hill that you're willing to die on. Then. You don't really have something that gives you is going to give you a source of passion and enthusiasm. So the idea of the Hill that you go down is about having some sense of purpose and it's also having some sense of identity about what your life's about.

[03:19]

So these are the things that become our North Star. So. First, though, I'm curious because you were talking about what you are passionate about when you were young. So does anyone want to share what they want you to be because I didn't hear anyone else's. OK, and I got my sherry, so we were talking about so I really do need to also with job rules actually, but when I was really young, I liked I had the dream of traveling quite a lot.

[03:51]

So I wanted to see the world. And I was like because I felt like such a big world and I want to see it and get to know it. And I always felt the best way to meet other cultures and understand them. And then it kind of evolved. And I really started with journalism, but I always been passionate about animals, which is something I haven't mentioned. And I did quite a few rescues when I was back home. So that lasted until I moved to the UK and only at the age of 15 I thought of becoming a social worker.

[04:19]

So I wanted to do something that was meaningful and help others. So yeah, I think that was that. And so far it remains like I still want to travel loads. I still love animals and I want to work will help as much as I can. And I still work in care in the health care sector, so. I'm still doing all of those things, so. Well, I wanted to be everything that I read as I was explaining to my group, so any book that I read that was really so I went from medicine to archeology to veterinary medicine to God, he knows anything.

[05:08]

And of course, it was a bit of a what you call it, a toss up things that girls are supposed to do versus things that girls weren't supposed to do became part of the family thing, but that I ignored.

[05:21]

And so eventually I became a marine zoologist, then an aquaculture aquaculturist, growing fish. And now I do science and technology, so I've gone all the way around, so, yeah, so now I do a science and technology policy. So I look at strange and emerging technologies, robotics and A.I. and genetics and lovely, wonderful, futuristic things, which I absolutely enjoy. Good. So what's changed is the general question, what's changed from childhood to now?

[06:08]

Reality. A healthy dose of reality. So is it reality or. So when I was young, I wanted to be a professional footballer, you know, like lots of kids, then somewhere along the lines I realized, one, that maybe I didn't have the skill. And to do more than that, I wasn't prepared to work for. But then also the other things coming to your life, so there are competing forces that tend to moderate or modulate whatever the word is, moderate your your passions.

[06:56]

You know, some of your passions, because they start to compete for time and attention and also passions to. OK, um. OK. So one of the questions not to discuss now, but for later. Is the things that moderate and the things they stopped and the things that changed all by. Real. Or are there things that we put in? So. Is it really reality?

[07:53]

Sorry, can you repeat the things again, the things that the things that stopped us, were they really barriers? Or were they challenges that we weren't even prepared to to work enough for or we give up on our dreams because they became challenged? I think in some respects it was more of a compromise. Some things are based on compromise, but I also think that there are some things that you can't control. For example, competition in the workplace or in education, you may wish to do something a particular course, but you can't do it because the competition is so great, that's out of your control.

[08:51]

Well, that moderate that changes, that's the bit that's the problem I'm thinking about. Right. So the competition. Means it became it became harder, right, but someone has to win, and if it's really your passion and if you went all out and really committed to it. It depends on the stage of life that you're at, because when you're at home with your parents, the conditions that you live in, in other words, with your parents, for example, if it's a very competitive thing that you want to do and see your parents can't afford it or they can't afford extra tuition to enable you to compete, then then that's not something that you can control.

[09:52]

It's it's a reality which Templar's which has to temper your behavior or your your ability to realize your passion. And then you have you have more choices to make in terms of whether you really want to do it and you can afford or you make the sacrifice in terms of. You know, time and money, yeah. Thanks for that opportunity, is that as well and what you say about sacrificing sort of things to do the yeah, I want to get is, is that.

[10:38]

When we believe the reality more so, there are really always examples like the pursuit of happiness in that film, where Will Will Smith is now, where he finds all the odds, spaceplane, true story. And you always hear like Olympians who've had every hardship and yet they found a way and I kept going. Is it just that we start to believe reality more than the opportunity? Is it what sorry, is it that so it seems so hard to achieve and so we can rationalize that by saying, you know, it would take too much, there's too much competition is is I need to have motivation, all of those things.

[11:37]

But the one like the one percent or the one person that's really dedicated. I mean, when you if you think about.

[11:49]

Someone like I mean, I don't know his story, but Michael Spinks or someone like that who's so committed, I think Lewis Hamilton has a similar story. I think he. His father, his father worked three jobs to raise. And I'm trying to think of other people like that, but there are people that despite every you know, they should have just listened and should have given up by all rational reason, but they still found a way.

[12:27]

Anyway, to start off, I just want to try we'll try something different, but before you go, Rob, there is another side to that in that haven't missed out on a particular path that you really desire. You embark on. You have to embark on another journey, so to speak. I hate that word. But for what it's worth and in some instances, there are people who have found greater fulfillment than the original passion that they thought that they could not live without, because that happened to a friend of mine who in my class at high school A-levels, he failed all of his day lives that we did because he wanted to do sciences.

[13:18]

He wanted to be a doctor. But he was very he was very he was a very committed Christian. And even at high school, he had started preaching at church. And on the failure of the A-levels, he decided that he was going to go into the seminary to get his education and he rose to become the second highest in his denomination in the church eventually. And became a principal of the seminary that he went to. Whereas if he had chosen to send his senses, he would have been mediocre at best, probably.

[13:54]

Yeah, yeah, that that's really what I had not excited or waiting for in that way. But, yeah, it's really about is it sometimes is the right thing to give up and to try something else, because sometimes things that we have an interest in or a passion for are only to lead us to something else. But sometimes we give up on the thing, and I don't think there's only one thing like he's not a. It's not something that if we miss that, then we always miss the boat.

[14:30]

But I think the key distinction is, are we given up for practical reasons because we think it's too difficult or are we giving up because it's a real change of passion? Right. So we're just going to try something else to start with, everyone sitting comfortably. So and if you want to put the camera off for this, fine. So maybe you should just sit relaxed and. Focus on your breath so you can breathe in for inches for four.

[15:16]

Come out through the mouth, right? Rainfall. Outfight. Enfold. Outside. Now, imagine that your life is like a train line. Lie down on the floor. And imagine that you could float up. So you could see the whole line from beginning to end. From where you are. And imagine that you're looking where you are now. Looking down at you, that's down in the line. And you can see from where you are in certain things, so relationships, certain roles that you have to play certain ideas and beliefs and keeping your chin down.

[16:18]

Even you limited stock. And from where you are, just see if you can see which ones those are. And then. Look and see the ideas and the opportunities and the relationships and the roles that. Are about. That could energize you and lift you up. Which video of which could. And then when you when you've looked at that and when you're ready. Just float to the end of the line. And then look down and think about.

[17:09]

When your life reaches the end, what are the things that will really matter to you? What will you really care about? And then as you float back. Think about which of the things that holding you back. Will impact on that. And which of the opportunities are there things that. Could help you rise higher. Open sea, see? And then when you're ready to fly back to new. OK, if everyone's ready, I'm going to go into two breakout rooms.

[18:14]

And. Just to talk about. What do you think is holding you back now, what is going to matter and what opportunities are there for? Your muted we can join, you're going to we're discussing. We can break up, break record. OK, so yeah, I'm going to you're going to get a link when they when it says it's going to close. Just carry on your conversation. It's just like a one minute warning. Welcome back.

[18:59]

So we were talking in the breakout rooms and. All of life, how we experience it is is about the reality that we see. And the meaning that we make between that and all of that is a story. Everything that we perceive. Like the temperature, like when we see someone doing something, how we are, all of that is all of perception. Is. Factual, but we can't operate on facts, and so we have to make those facts into some kind of story.

[19:42]

And the story that we tell determines our experience to the story that we tell is the difference between giving up or being. Lewis Hamilton or someone who's fought for every. Obstacle, I'm thinking when I'm talking about them and come to mind, Frederick. I can't I can't remember his name, but it was a famous slave, and so basically his story was that he was born.

[20:18]

Illegitimate son of a slave. She'd been ripped off by the master. So he was banished to another plantation. And so he's someone that really should have had no. No chance of ever achieving anything but just through circumstance that the plantation he was on had like a Connelly, the wife of the master was quite kindly and taught him how to read. Which was actually against the rules, and so he was later he told others, and so he was banished for for doing that because they weren't allowed to read.

[21:07]

And. He waited years and eventually was able to find to escape, and he escaped and one day he was like this group took him in to look after him. I think in New York, and they put on talks and gatherings. And one day you stood up and talked and he just had a talent for telling stories. And so anyway, this was hardest that he became ultimately he became he one of the president's advisers and campaigned for the abolition of slavery.

[21:51]

I don't know if anyone knows. Historian Frederick Douglass, Frederick Douglass as the one you know, the one that Trump said he knew that he's a good guy to lie, wasn't it?

[22:09]

But such an inspiring story. And so there's and it's like Victor Frankl in man's search for meaning, talks about in the concentration camps, how some people were crying. Some people were mean, some people were happy. Some people were sad. They all depended on the story, in his words, the meaning that we might have of the circumstance.

[22:36]

So. Really? What's what what really matters to us is the story that we tell and there's a story that will make us miserable is a story that will lead to failure, is a story that will make us give up. There's a story that will make us better. If you look at things like the red pill theory and there's a feminist equivalent, I can't remember the name of it, but all these kind of manganaro my. And all of these are stories that people have made of reality as they see them.

[23:16]

Which have led them to be bitter, which has led them to be isolated and cut themselves off. And then there's other people who through every kind of hardship for every kind of. But. Everywhere where life told them that they couldn't do it. They still kept believing, they still kept trying and eventually. Found success. And so the difference is all about the stories. So. OK, so we got a small group tonight so we can either stay here and talk about stories together.

In this episode we talked about creating an Artisanal Relationship. That is a relationship that is perfectly designed for you and your partner.

Transcript

[00:01]

Welcome to The Thing Free Rebellion. The podcast for independent thinkers to rebel against ignorance, manipulation, dogma, doctrine and the fears and temptations that stop us being ourselves and living our best lives. Good to make relationships, simple dotcom to join us at an event or find more information. Tonight, we're talking about autism relationships and priorities, know what I mean is that most people do things by default, so most people basically go along with a condition that go along with what everyone else tells them, like from the media and so on.

[00:48]

So. We've become in commodities world where everything can be manufactured and comes off cheaply and most efficiently and most effectively, there's become a great market for artisanal products, for things that are down the traditional way hand with great skill, with great care. And of better quality, so. I look at a lot of people, the relationships in by kind of like the rights of our culture, and it's it's that they it's like a diamond engagement ring. It's with a big, expensive wedding.

[01:33]

It's with the big house or the big car and luxury holidays as as if they're the things that are going to make you happy. And by contrast, I think an artisanal relationship is where you get to skilled, like relationally skilled individuals who build the relationship. That's right for them that they can both thrive in. And so it's it's custom built and it's built with skill. It's distinctive and it's disregards the traditions or the customs that doesn't serve. So you were talking in breakout rooms about five qualities and I went into his room, really just see how or where you were four times and I went to bring you back and it looked like you were agreeing five between each of the group.

[02:34]

Is that. Is that OK? Right, Stewie, can we have a spokesperson for each? Yeah, I don't mind being a spokesperson for my group. Sarah. If I say, OK, great, OK, I think you've got the the go ahead. So what about Sandra? Who was it? It was, yes, Fernando and Sandra. Really small group. Sandra, would you like to be there? I think she's looking for the mute button.

[03:22]

Yeah, that's all right.

[03:27]

And we have a problem, Alan, the eating group. That's right. The the most social group. OK, are you happy with that, Alan?

[03:44]

Yeah, I will go. All right.

[03:46]

So let's have Sandra arole and Sarah. OK, so we'll have a discussion of the five qualities. So if you each argue your case. And let's see how different they are and what we come up with. So should we go with case? Should we go? Ladies first. We start with Sarah, Sandra and in our bringing up the rear. OK, we thought I'm going to take one of the top qualities from each person because we didn't come up with for you a group, we have five each.

[04:28]

We got 15. But I'm going to take one from each of us is fair but playful enough so I can just put you Sarah.

[04:38]

OK, so Nicole and Janosz were in your group one night, so you can private message, Sarah, if you want if you want to change or whatever, as she's explaining. Sorry. Go on, Sandra.

[04:56]

Now, Sarah. Sarah. Sorry, silly asses.

[05:02]

Yes. No worries. So playfulness, we thought, was a really major key ingredient in the relationship. Obviously this the time to be serious reason things, but also that needs to be some levity and a way to diffuse any conflict and not to make fun, but to keep it. Levity, I think is crucial. I so would that also be classed as far Manuma? But, you know, playfulness might be something more reciprocity, like humor can come from one person but might not be shared.

[05:40]

But to be playful, I think we were assuming there was some reciprocity in, you know, OK.

[05:49]

Should I go on to the next keep kind of something that would have been not even something that I would have considered years ago, but now I'm getting it all the this is so for you to say compassion and Collimore. And we also mentioned all these things like acceptance, support, all come under the umbrella of kind of unconditional love. That was a really big one that came out of great, unconditional love, that what that means is when someone is really feeling depressed or down and not to criticize this kind of compassion, it just is such a long way to relationship.

[06:38]

OK, we're going to limit you two to five, though. Yeah.

[06:44]

So I think I've said so.

[06:47]

I've just crossed the last one of them, which won the unconditional love or no compassion, compassion, just cross compassion if we don't need compassion for every animal. OK, ok.

[07:01]

Thank you. We'll be back. We'll be back to you. OK Sandra.

[07:07]

OK, I'm going to leave out the ones that Sarah has already made and now you got to pick five.

[07:14]

Right? So I'm going to give those two undercity. So we're going to refine to five from everyone. Yeah.

[07:18]

OK, Fernando, give some very interesting insights, which I think I will use as the first three.

[07:30]

He talked about personal development as being important to somebody who is evolving, but not only evolving in of themselves, but enabling you to also grow by encouraging you and. Participating in your evolution as well, which I thought was quite, quite nice. And from that, he also brought up in this. Evolution, bringing about increasing compatibility as a couple within the within the couple. Yeah, we are growing more together rather than growing apart. So I suppose in that sense, your evolution is in parallel, in a way, if you look at it, it's congruent and then, of course, looking at.

[08:36]

Beauty and beauty in the person, and that embodies not just not the physical, not just the physical, but the spirit, a sense of self and what they add to the relationship, which would embody the whole thing about humor and all of those things. Right. Right.

[08:56]

But, Fernando, so physical and emotional and spiritual and spiritual. Yes. Yes.

[09:03]

And kindness and all of those other attributes. And then for me, I thought of confidence.

[09:17]

And having the confidence to nurture your own individual growth, but no, it is Fernando, in a sense, having that confidence to not.

[09:30]

Restrict your partner's journey, your partner's evolution, so confidence and then social conscience is the other one which speaks to things like love of nature, treating people with respect.

[09:55]

I think that is that five. Yes, those five. OK. All right. OK. It's interesting because when you look at your list, there's going to be a very different person from Sarah as groups list. Okay. Thank you, Errol.

[10:13]

OK, so we thought loyalty was one of the key attributes that I don't think we went blind loyalty, but loyalty in the sense that the person is committed to the relationship rather than always being somewhere else. Maybe the other one we had was trustworthiness, under which we kind of saw things like integrity, honest old being part of the overall general approach as well. The other one we had was supportive. So the person is there for you when you need them.

[10:57]

We and also loving, caring potentially about kindness, as I think Sara was talking about earlier on. Well, being in the sort of supportive that that person is there for you, that will help you hopefully.

[11:13]

Um, he almost certainly came into it, but didn't quite label it playfulness. But I mean, being from person to be around with rather than just looking off until the time kind of depressing. And the other one we had was communication, somebody who was communicative, who will maybe express their feelings or express their thoughts. I mean, I don't think we meant verbal diarrhea, by the way, like me, but something a bit more, a bit more, sort of somebody that gets their point across so that, you know, you can understand them.

[11:58]

You can kind of understand how they're feeling and how they are thinking. Then I'll ask you to spot any issues or positives or whatever so you can kind of feel more bonding in that sense. That's kind of our five, I think three. Well, you got you got you got five I'm now thinking of.

[12:24]

OK, right, so we're going to go back into the breakout rooms, but I believe there is it should be it depends on the variables that you've got, but you should be able to move between the rooms. OK, we'll get it, we'll go back into the breakout rooms, so I'm putting down the.

[12:53]

Qualities of each group. So each person who read out the groups knows what their qualities were. Yep, yep. OK, so what we do is we'll go into the breakout rooms and now everyone of Iroh, Sandra and Sarah can move between the groups. And what you're going to do is listen to each person's pitch and choose the partner that you would you would pick if you had to pick one of those partners who embodied all of those things. So that makes you realize this was going to be a dating game?

[13:43]

I no, I would have preferred that.

[13:47]

I recognize that's the ultimate stitch me up here.

[13:56]

OK, so we said we're going to go back to the main groups, but then you should be able to listen to farmwork. How? Like a picture of what someone would look like. You've had all those qualities and then you listen to each of them.

[14:16]

And so we're trying to convince them that the person that we have kind of created is the best person to be with. This is like blind date and you are person number three and everyone else is going to listen instead of going instead of being a just on. Well, the answer is yes, it is pitch and what that person would be like. So so is the only arrow. Sarah and Sandra and everyone else can ask questions, pick holes, and you've got to decide which one you're going to stick with for life.

[15:02]

OK, well, I'll be jumping in and out of the breakout rooms.

[15:09]

So when when we do that, we go into like one room each and how are we going to make it in the room? Are you going to tell you can you go back in the same breakout rooms? And it should when you were in that breakout room, you should be absolutely cutting breakout rooms or it should have an option of joining the different rooms and said any conflict between them.

[15:30]

So try it. Where do you find that? I'll come into the groups and I'll show you. You're going to contestants want to move. No, no, you ask questions and then when you think, OK, so does everyone know, OK, I've got to finish the qualities of my schema communication.

[15:52]

Wouldn't it be better if people started in different rooms because I a up and I discussed this five interests is looked like by the right person, but it may be that they need to kind of hear the other file first. Then what? Like some sort said.

[16:12]

Yes, but we're going to start off in your room. But my expectation is that everyone's going to move the room straight off because of that reason and see if I can get a better option.

[16:28]

The popcorn doesn't count. You can't bribe everyone to get the roast from the end. Yeah, I do have some roast chicken roast potatoes. No.

[16:45]

Yeah, sorry, you can't jump to that because. Sorry about. I was I was going to leave the apple crumble for later, actually, because I also I baked as well apple crumpling cream.

[17:05]

Actually I like it with ice cream but my book that's not playing fair I love is not fair.

[17:15]

All right.

[17:16]

So who's fair in love war. OK, so I've got to make a pitch to convince somebody that I have the right set of.

[17:24]

Yeah, they might ask you questions. Hi, Betty. Did you catch up with what we did, you get a hello, did you get a grasp of what we doing?

[17:37]

H.S and qualities of your ideal partner?

[17:39]

Yeah. So these are the kinds of groups that speak five qualities that if you were stuck and you can't commit to this person, you've got to stay with them for life and there's no get out. So I'm going to join you to a group where you can move between them to whoever you think has the best options. Right. So we should listen to the fact that they've chosen the and you want me to say which ones I think are the best?

[18:04]

Yeah, you got to pick the person who embodies one of those. The person. Yes.

[18:10]

So you imagine that he's a person that embodies all those characteristics, you see. I pick one of them. OK. All right. I'll see you in the room at. I...