The Unified Team

The only certain path to success is the path of mastery.

We can't master everything, but there are certain things that we can never be happy without achieving. In this episode, we looked at what those were and what was the path to mastery...

Transcript

[00:01]

Welcome to The Thing Free Rebellion, the podcast for independent thinkers to rebel against ignorance, manipulation, dogma, doctrine and the fears and temptations that stop us being ourselves and living our best lives. Good to make relationships, simple dotcom to join us at an event or find more information. To lose or gain in 21. Three and a marriage weighs a few pounds.

[00:40]

Yeah, we feel the punishment is a sudden gain a gain of marriage and lose a few pounds.

[00:49]

I thought you said gay marriage. It's all coming out, though. It's it's as if dating strategy. A whole new market. Yeah. Now there is too.

[01:08]

I thought I thought the weights, but it would be gain muscle and lose fat. But that's OK, isn't it.

[01:15]

Yeah. Lose weight, get fit. Find that lovely gentleman. That's it. No marriage in the Marriage Act of marriage you know.

[01:32]

How long were you married for some time, if you don't mind me asking.

[01:35]

Thirty four years. That's a lifetime.

[01:37]

Was OK. Much longer than one but over a decade.

[01:45]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[01:50]

I was. I was married in 14 years. You're looking for differences, Rob, but I am a bit too superficial. No, no, no. It was it was only the warm up. So we're going to go deeper.

[02:10]

So you found the perfect relationship now. I'm sorry I said so. You found the perfect relationship now. How do you mean I'm teasing you. OK, yeah, I know you said it was the warm up something you found the perfect one.

[02:30]

Oh, I see. Like the marriage is OK.

[02:35]

Um, right. So the next bit is. Right, in order for you that we're talking about Mostri, so you can only master so many things. So what are the three to seven things that would be essential for you to live a happy, meaningful and worthwhile life within one category?

[03:11]

Or do you mean different categories of different categories? So I would I would suggest health money. Career relationships are probably like universal self development. I don't know if that's necessary. That's more of a life journey, but it's mastery of yourself. Yeah. So that's probably that's probably why not have counted.

[03:42]

Or is that yeah, I mean, it's sort of combined with relationships, I suppose. But there is a self, there is the self actualization of self, but there isn't the relationship, the extension of the self. It is an extension. But to really be fulfilled in a relationship, I think you have to work on yourself. So it's it's this to me, it's the grounding of self. As far as the individual and the extension into into a relationship which completes that the complete seal.

[04:17]

Yeah, yeah. Which which is where I was going to say, like, you have a relationship with yourself to master the relationship. You could classify it as a relationship with yourself as well.

[04:29]

Yeah. OK. I suppose it goes back to the old saying of yourself, you have to get that first before you can love somebody else.

[04:42]

Yeah, yeah. Does anyone have any different? Freedom from. Yeah, I was about to say Independencia, same thing. What are you thinking about covid-19 million? How did you guess?

[05:05]

Well, I guess you might say let's talk over the weekend and the snow and with some family.

[05:11]

And it just reminds me of the saying that the best things in life are free and with you know, you do take it for granted that those type of things you could do without question, you could go where you want to what you want. And we can't can't do that anymore. So. Once it's taken away, it's become more chaotic. It's easy to think of all the things that were lost and that were restricted to do it at the moment, because you can never I don't think anyone can ever completely lose the sense of freedom.

[05:48]

No one can ever completely take anybody's freedom. There's always something that someone can take away from you. It's like that quote from Victor Frankl, isn't it, the last the last freedom is the last. Freedom is the ability to choose your response.

[06:13]

Yes, OK. Is there anyone are you there, Betty? Hello, I'm just getting dressed. OK, what we're doing is because it's such a small group, we're doing the breakout rooms in here, so feel free to join in if if you want to and when you're ready. OK, so is there any on that list that anyone feels doesn't apply to them, select cell phone relationships, money, relationship, money, health, career, career?

[06:56]

I'd say I don't feel like I don't really connect to that one. OK, then.

[07:04]

Was there an overall health of career, money, relationships, faith and freedom? Do you see what we have done? There is happiness, although you might say what makes you happy. But all those things don't necessarily always make you happy. I mean, just because you felt that you could have career and all that, you've got to kind of understand what's missing in your life. So, like, a little bit something cool, I suppose. I mean, I could totally just quit sitting here in a back.

[07:37]

But, you know, if you're kind of on your own, you haven't really got a relationship with anybody. It's not. It'll be nice, but it's not really fulfilling thing. I think I've mean, having a good relationship with yourself and a good relationship with all this is that brings happiness in and of itself. I think it'd be very difficult to have a good relationship with self and always and not be happy. Yeah. That being comfortable with yourself, I suppose, is what you so really you are really that list is about the self matters, being comfortable with yourself, being yourself.

[08:16]

And in my interpretation that is also freedom, like as we had the whole free thing for a living. So it's so I think if you have not of health that you feel is as good as you can, you have mastery of your career. You do something meaningful. If you have mastery of money, then you're free of the money worries. If you have relationships, then you have good relationships. And so a sense of of of of control over your life.

[09:00]

Yeah, yeah. It's in a way, yes. It's really about the way I conceptualize it is that you have. You've confronted the main problems that we have. I suppose parenting would be a tough one for people who have children. I was thinking parents involved and I was thinking maybe that comes the relationships. It does, but it has a lot to say about parents and some of the responsibility. Sorry, Alan, what about parents?

[09:37]

I'm just saying that's probably if you have children, it's probably another matter if somebody wants mastery over how to get rid of the kids.

[09:49]

Yeah. You know, how to keep them close, keep and say, oh, we got this spectrum. It's their time to go.

[10:02]

But it's funny that the reason I asked that question about the parents involved was because, you know, you've got your mind, your mind's eye, and you think, yeah, that's not impossible or impossible.

[10:13]

That's possible. But in terms of parenting, for some reason like that, we just like Blobfish in terms of I don't think you could have gained mastery over that. That was what the mind was telling me.

[10:25]

And that's why I know you can definitely them. You can definitely. It's just like in your career, like you get better, I you spend more time sort of navigating it and stuff like that. Yeah, no, I agree.

[10:41]

It was just, you know, when your parents just got like a Fulgham doesn't kind of like go along with what you kind of think in yourself. So logically, you can't put my mind to saying, no, you can't. That's why I asked that question.

[10:54]

So I have to accept that with parenting, there are there are the bits that you can control and there are the bits that you can't because you're dealing with other individuals and it's acceptance of yourself having done the best that you can do.

[11:17]

Um, yeah. You know, I think sometimes people put too much emphasis on the things that they think that you should do as a parent. And they see themselves as having failed if they did not do those things, whereas if you were to speak to the child, you would get up, probably get a totally different perspective because they are not looking through those eyes. And I think sometimes we're too critical of ourselves. There is no doubt that the pressure that we put on ourselves, lead to lead to unhappiness can lead to unhappiness because we feel that we have failed.

[11:58]

Do you think parenting is harder than any of the others? There's more intricacies to it than all this. I think it crazy to give a lot more in some in some circumstances, and you're not it's not you give without necessarily expecting to get. An equivalent in return. So it demands some selflessness on your part. And I it's it's how that plays out, I think that's what's important in the long run. I think. It's more or less the same principles or ideologies applied to a normal relationship with a child.

[12:55]

But I will say it is harder in this sense that you are dealing with a little person when you when you are dealing with a partner, you are dealing with an adult.

[13:08]

Well, let's just at the brains completely developed to that stage. Yeah. So the other person in STEM and. Exactly. So assuming the other person is not is a normal person, you're dealing with another adult, you may disagree on things, but you're going to get a sensible response or you're going to get something that you can discuss things through with a child. You are going to get the little pure feelings coming back and you have to learn to sort that through.

[13:35]

You get that with adults as well. I mean, that's why I'm saying it really depends. So, I mean, I had this in my own relationship with my spouse. I as the spouse, I suppose you get a lot of. A logical response was back, but then if you ignore all that and you get to the core message, you kind of go you're upset about the thing, aren't you? But what you're saying has got nothing to do with what you feel, but also more introspection and introspection in that respect.

[14:09]

It's not yeah, the difference lies. But with children, you see, you get that all the time and you have to learn to cut through that. So they might say, oh, you're just being too much. And the other because they cannot see this sense in what you're saying sometimes, or rather they don't want to see it because they want to play, they don't want to study or they don't want to go to bed now because they don't feel tired, but they're not thinking about the consequences of tomorrow morning when they're going to be tired or they can't see what you see because they haven't got the life experience.

[14:41]

They don't understand that all these things are going to lead to something negative. You understand that, because probably you've done it and you experienced it or you've seen it, but they haven't. And it's not real to them. It's like people still you can't think in abstract yet.

[14:57]

Still, it's a bit like people are still saying, you know, covid-19 isn't that bad. Well, you know, almost two thousand people died. So it can be very bad for some people. But can you say so? It's it's a bit like that. So I think in that sense it's harder because you have to learn not to love your own feelings anyway. And that's very difficult, at least for me, because they are your child and you are emotionally connected.

[15:29]

If it was somebody else's child, you could actually be a lot more calm and funny and a better person in that sense, because you are allowing your emotions to get the better of you and you can kind of cool the kind of explain things and, you know, that probably will get through the message will get through better. But when it's your own kid, get over there, get it done, believe you, because or they study you haven't studied hard enough or whatever because you know, they can do it, but they're just being lazy.

[16:02]

And so in that sense, I think it's harder. But it's exactly the same principles. For example, by the way, stop me from dominating the conversation. I find, for example, with my kids, one thing I have always done is been absolutely honest and clear about my things. So they know that I'm a man of my word. If I say it, I'm going to do it. But that also places a lot of responsibility on me to be careful not to say something I don't want to do.

[16:36]

And so if I say if you do that, you're going to get into trouble, then I have to follow it through if they do it. But and they've got a point, for example, that I told a joke. And sometimes when I talk, my face is very serious. So sometimes I will say something that kids would look at me and go, are you talking to? And if I say yes, I'm joking because then I will tell them that I'm joking.

[16:59]

And then they know and they have a laugh about it. But so the point is that kids know that there are boundaries and they know that is consistent. And the same thing with your spouse. They know that they can trust what you say. They know that there are certain boundaries and that you're consistent. If you say you're going to do something, you will do it. You know, it's obvious that you're serious about it. So the integrity bit, the honesty bit, the reliability, it always has to be...

The Think Free Rebellion is a personal choice. It is the choice to make yourself the authority and author of your life.

Transcript

[00:00]

Today is going to be a little bit different because it's not going to be so much of a discussion as I want to share some ideas with you, and it's about changing the nature of the group and the base of the group. And then so I'm going to run through some ideas. If you have any questions about anything as I'm going along, just interrupt me. I'm going to run through this and then we'll see. You can see whether you agree or disagree.

[00:33]

OK, so. The idea so the basic idea is. That if we have a group that's formed around relationships. And people talk about sharing different perspectives. There's always a basis for conflict. And so whenever you're dealing with conflict, you have to look at where's the point of agreement? And so I've been giving it a lot of thought to thinking of. What's really behind, like, personally, most my philosophical view and where this conflict come in in terms of it.

[01:14]

So I want to start with a personal basis and as to how why, I think thinking free is the key to everything. And then we're working back. OK, so. When we talk about relationships. Or anything, we're talking about different things because we got different experiences and different perspectives, and so oftentimes that means there's a clash when people think they're talking about the same things. But actually they're coming from a completely different angle. You know, the thing about if six blind people come and see an elephant, they all have a different experience and they call each other lawyers because they don't understand from that frame of reference.

[02:07]

So, OK, so. The question of what's between you and your perfect life or your perfect relationship, now I want to share my my model of what about that? What causes us to what's between us and them perfect basis and explain, OK, hear me and explain why from my perspective. So. What are we looking at here is. I think. That based on my life, I spent four or five years studying happiness. Before relationships and really what meant what happiness, what makes someone happy is basically we have a blueprint, we have a blueprint that we can't change.

[03:05]

It's genetically what we believe to be. And so becoming happy is a is a journey of growth, is a journey of growth into becoming more of who we are and expressing that potential that we have. So this is kind of representing that journey. Now, what happens for a lot of people, for most people probably is somewhere they get swayed off course and so in terms of relationship can become stale or they can become bored, they can become bitter or even things go really wrong.

[03:45]

And they end up with an in somewhere that is quite toxic. So. What is so I'm looking at what why do people get swayed off? And the airline industry, they have a one in 60 rule. So basically, a flight path is similar to this that an airplane will set off and it's aiming for wherever it's going to land. But all the time it's getting buffeted by wind, by turbulence, by all these factors which take it, of course.

[04:23]

So in the airline industry, the one in 60 rule is that for every 60 miles an aeroplane travels, every one degree off is going to be one mile off. So, James, earlier in atomic talks about if if an aeroplane sets off from Los Angeles, it's four and a half degrees of. By the time it would have reached New York, it's instead in Washington, D.C.. And so I think that's an analogy for what happens in our life and in our relationships, is that that's what we're meant to be.

[05:01]

And then we get swayed off so we don't actually become the. So why do we get swayed? And that's really three things. There's. Ignorance. So in the example of the planes, planes have crashed when you act, when there was a miscommunication between them and the air traffic control so that they thought they were in a different place. And so obviously, they're like crashing into a mountain when they weren't expecting anything to be there. So what happens to us individually is we're born helpless, we born not knowing anything.

[05:48]

And. So we have to learn the ways of the world because we can't become. When we operate in the world. Like from day one. So we grow up helpless and we grow up and our parent or caregiver is looking after us, but they're also telling us all the traditions or all the rules and all the customs of our society. And that's the way that we pass on information generation to generation, and a lot of that is useful because otherwise we'd start from day one.

[06:27]

We have fire, we have technology, we have everything that we have because we don't have to start from the beginning again. And so then we've institutionalized these ways of passing on values and beliefs and expectations, and this comes from the wider culture, from so that we get to school, we've got the media, which is giving us certain ideas and values, religion and all of these kind of things. So they're basically giving us the map. But the map that they're giving us isn't necessarily Ahmet.

[07:10]

So we talked about the fairy tale framework, it is one of the biggest things that sways people off in terms of relationships. And. This is a mistake and this is something that we're told and we set up with expectations and beliefs and assumptions that aren't actually true. And so there's a lot of things and even without meaning to like when you're five years old and the teachers tell you, shut up, no one wants to hear from you when they say, like when you're made to feel stupid, all of these things become lessons to us.

[07:49]

All of these things become fears that we don't stand out. We don't say what we really mean. And so all of this. Sways us off our individual unique path. So this free, otherwise, what is free, why so why is ignorance, and it may be that we don't know what we're doing. We don't know, like we haven't got an accurate map. Or it may be that the assumption or the expectation or belief wasn't true, then the other two are fair.

[08:29]

And a lot of the times the fear comes from the idea of public speaking is is the biggest fear because. Of we are afraid of what other people tell us, because we've we've been told certain things and we've learnt certain things along in our childhood, so that makes it frightening to stand out. It makes it frightening to stand up for what you believe as opposed to what you're told. What everyone else thinks is true and said in the other way is.

[09:00]

That there's all these shiny objects, so. Like the get rich quick schemes, the idea, the hacks and the shortcuts and all these kind of things which are tell us that we need to. Do certain things, say a certain thing, so in terms of relationships. Like what stops us fear? So, for example, if you're dating is the fear of standing out is the fear of rejection. If you're in a relationship and is the fear of being honest, the fear of being vulnerable.

[09:40]

So what's the shiny object? So it may be that someone so attractive. That your state, of course, because they're not the perfect person, but they're so hot, or it may be that you desperately want it to work with a certain person who is an. The person who is going to be right for the. OK. All right, so we're looking. So where was I? So in terms of being swayed off by other people's like by by media references and things, I just want to use one example is does everyone needs to be Dimond's?

[10:32]

The rest of the base diamonds, so basically it's the story of why in 1930, 10 percent of engagement engagement rings with diamond rings. Now, something like 75, 75 to 80 percent. And so basically, that was a concerted, concerted advertising campaign for a generation of women, so Dimond's didn't have a lot of use and the birth had funded this big expedition to find precious resources. And they found these mines of diamonds and they had this glut of diamonds that there was no market for.

[11:19]

And so there wasn't really any value. And so they tasked advertising agencies for about 30 years to try and work out different approaches to find the market. And essentially what they did. Was like the winning campaign was they targeted a whole generation of women from about 15 to 20. So this was in the nineteen thirties. So all the women who were of, like, thinking about being proposed to them and basically told them a dime and lost forever, if your boyfriend proposes to you and he doesn't use a diamond ring, he doesn't mean it forever.

[12:07]

He doesn't really care. And so what happened was this there's this pressure on the girls that if they had an engagement ring wasn't diamond, it was a sense of you've accepted an engagement ring from a boy that doesn't care about you. And so they then put pressure on two boys and say, well, I want a diamond ring and. Then they came out with all these campaigns, like, if your boyfriend doesn't like what what's a lifetime of happiness worth, isn't it worth a couple of months of your life?

[12:46]

A couple of months of wages. And so basically in the generation. The diamond ring became. Like standard. For no other reason than the fact that the birds needed needed the marketplace to sell their diamonds. And so when we look at the messages that we get from the media. And when you look at magazines, when you look at TV, all of them are exist. Their business model is to exist in order to sell advertising. And so when you're looking at social media, it's basically the same thing that as it said, like if you if you aren't paying for something, you are the product.

[13:34]

And so when we look at. So when we look at the way that like and I'm not here with the conspiracy theory, I'm not bashing. Economics or money, but what we have to look at the motivation of. Advertising and media is basically to sell stuff. And so how so when we look at. Where does that lead to, like a commercial marketplace leads to? Being creating, I want to use the food industry as an example, so the food industry, like if you if you have a raw potato, is not really worth very much.

[14:23]

If you make it into chips, is worth a lot more. And if you make it into crisps, is worth a lot more. But what you've really done is you've taken a basic food and you've made it less nutritious. So. So the food industry works by pandering to our taste buds, as in sugar fat. So. And so, like we now, decades later, have an obesity crisis. Because they're creating the food that's going to that's going to compel us, make us crave and make us buy their products.

[15:11]

And so it becomes a rush to who can have the most sugar, who can have the most. So. In this way, so that it becomes a bit different and we have those suits. And so that's really what happened over 30, 40 years in the food industry, and so why we now have an obesity crisis. Now, when you look at. In terms of information and social media. Or social media is. Their business model is to sell our attention.

[15:50]

And the way that they get our attention is by. You know, things that things like Areva polarize us and outrageous, and so there's this culture of outrage and it's like people talking about in social dilemmas and other places that basically what you see in your news feed. Is individual to what you believe. Because so, for example, if you want to advertise on Facebook, you're not allowed to say anything that might target someone or might make someone feel uncomfortable.

[16:31]

Because if it if it's challenging, it makes someone feel uncomfortable, they're not going to spend as long on Facebook. So Facebook blocks those those ads out. And so basically. What we all get in our face. All the people that we agree with, the groups and the pages and things that we already agree, so we're not.

[16:55]

And what that leads us to is groupthink, which is basically where people who believe the same thing. Make poor decisions because they don't have the diversity of opinion. So. OK, so so basically. What I'm saying is. The world out there is kind of pushing us. To fit into it is is easy to sell us stuff, whether it's products with Armani or whether it's an ideology. And when you look like so you can see this play out in the recent Trump.

[17:43]

And to a lesser extent in Brexit, in terms of. We don't. Actually get to see the facts, we get to see the conspiracy theories, we get to see the dramatics and the polarized sides, and so it pushes people apart and it stops open and honest. Debate. OK, so so that's where we get swayed off by ignorance or by assumptions or beliefs or expectations that aren't actually true, and then we get swayed off by fear because our narrative makes us afraid, to be honest.

[18:24]

Makes us feel unworthy, makes us feel we're missing out or and so that's how we stray, we stray in terms of when something is easy. So so that's really the three ways that we get straight, that we stray off our path. So does that make sense so far? Could you repeat what the freeways are, please? Yeah, so it's ignorance, which which is like not having an accurate path or being so out of fear and desire.

[19:05]

OK, so the next be able to talk about is the difference between when we navigate that path. The way that we get swayed off in terms of fear and desire and often also ignorance is by emotions. Now. I'm like sometimes like when I describe things is very logical, sometimes it can seem cold. And. So I want to talk about why that is. Is that. There is when we say, for example, when we're talking about a relationship, when we're in a relationship, we're in it for the emotion and the benefit of being in the relationship is the emotional side the way that we can judge.

[19:58]

The quality of a relationship. Is by the emotions. When we feel good, we're on a path. When we feel bad, it's because we're off our path. So the why and that and. Why don't we evaluate the relationships is all emotional. However, the problem is that people. Use emotion to navigate. So when you're making a decision so like if, for example, if you had a GPS that worked on navigation, it said, OK, we're going to go down this road because because this is really pretty.

[20:37]

Right. I really like this route. We're going to take this route. You'd end up in a different place. And so when we navigate our emotion, when we navigate our relationship or even the life. Based on emotion. We take the wrong path because the role of navigation is is mediating what we want with where we are. And if we disregard the reality of where we are and like the map of the land. Then we just go where we want to go, and that's where we get switched off.

[21:17]

So logic is the bridge between what you want and where you want to go, so logic is a terrible reason to be in a relationship is a terrible reason to judge. Where people overthink is when where they try to judge their relationship through logic. So the emotion is for how the relationship's going. You judge based on emotion, why you want to be in a relationship is for the emotional feeling. But when you make emotional like so like when people really, really attach someone and they say the same people who are in abusive relationships, the guy that I love him and, you know, I, I, I can't leave, so.

[22:06]

And that's all because we were attached to certain outcome, because we were afraid of something...

In this episode as we draw 2020 to a close we looked at what we need to do to build a great relationship even if we don't already have a Partner.

Transcript

[00:01]

So we accept that if you a relationship is a result of your behavior and your behavior as a result of the practices and the habits that you you use, that you have. And so then we look at attitudes.

[00:18]

So your attitude to dating relationships is going to affect how enthusiastic you are, how much activity that you do and how and the quality that you bring to that. So having a more positive attitude about dating relationships means that you activate more of the best in other people.

[00:39]

It means that you meet the people who are more attractive and more not attractive in a physical sense, but more attractive as they have the qualities that create a more attractive relationship. So. We talked about personal narrative in the way that you rise, you improve your attitude. We talked about all relationships, create problems. So you may have problems initially in the start of dating. And when you start school, then you can have a problem somewhere late. There isn't going to be a problem solving problems.

[01:18]

It's which taught in the breakout group about the difference between a fixed and a growth mindset and where knowing that problems are something that you can resolve if you change what you do and life works out. And the model that we have is going to determine the problems that we face and adjusting the model that we have can prevent or resolve the problems along the way.

[01:51]

We then looked at skills. What abilities do we need to develop improve in order to have better dating, dating experience and relationship experience about what? Atwar relationship?

[02:11]

Next year, what difference can you do to improve the your knowledge, skills and confidence in terms of dating relationships? And so what action can you take to have better relationships? So we covered quite a lot of things, and if you follow through these, if you listen to the recording now, if you follow through and ask those questions of yourself, then you.

[02:41]

I can come up with an action plan for 2021 in 2021, I'm launching the relational mastery system and a relational mastery system is the habits, the practices, the process. Two dating. How do you have the confidence, how do you have the minorities that results in better relationships? How do you have the dating skill and the how do you choose your partner? And then how when you've met someone, how do you develop the relationship? How do you build the relationship that has less friction?

[03:25]

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. OK, so today we're today we're not going to have too much discussion, it's going to be more planning session, a session for you to really think about what you do next year to.

[04:00]

Put your relationships in the best position that they can be.

[04:06]

So I've got some questions to run through, and so we're going to run through those questions and mostly talk about them in the breakout rooms. And then we can come back and we can just get a couple of things from everyone. But we've got four questions. So that's going to take quite a bit of time for the sake of if you're listening to this and you're not actually here, then this is really, again, for you. These are questions for you to think about, because what can you do next year to make your relationships in the best position that you can?

[04:44]

So for anyone who's new here, what we do in the main room here where we are now, the discussion is recorded and so you can listen back on any of the past mishaps that we've had, the discussion that you have in the breakout rooms is private. OK, so before we actually get started with that, I'm just interested to know where you put in a chat or whether you want to hear what he has an interesting news resolution.

[05:27]

In our room, we actually don't have New Year's resolutions. We'll be doing some lifelong changes instead because people don't really stick to news or solutions. It just short term is like a spur of the moment thing. People kind of go, I'm going to do everything because I'm fed up with something. So it's a knee jerk reaction to a problem is not a realistic expectation. You're all hyped up, so you set yourself impossible goals and then you just set yourself up for failure.

[06:02]

So instead, what we say is, I want to change my life for better. I'm going to do this. Which comes back to what you were saying about relationships as well. Oh, yeah. I'm going to find a new partner next year. It's kind of unrealistic. I mean, life doesn't love your partner, so it's not like you're going to necessarily find somebody. You can, by all means, look things into thing. But you've got to look at yourself because to change yourself, you gotta be more likeable, I suppose, or somebody that or put things into perspective or put things into operation so that you can go and find someone, but not because it's a New Year's resolution.

[06:42]

And very wise and perfect set up for this evening.

[06:50]

AK. So if unless anyone else has any interesting. Different points. Well, I'm Guerin's. Sorry, I don't know if man is really interested, but it's short term, it's 20, 21, I'm sure it's interesting. Well, we're all we're all interested, aren't we? It's interesting for me.

[07:17]

Well, resolve my lingering marriage, finalize what it will become. No marriage and move on the new single Tell Me for 2020. Well, yes, that's it. Yeah.

[07:38]

Now, up close that chapter. Yeah, that sounds like I think once you come to a decision, it's you know, there is always a natural delay because to that it's hard to make that jump. But, yeah, if you've decided, then that's. It's time to collect. Yeah, and it's and it's going to be hard because I am giving up. Thirty four years of. Marriage and all that entails, it means I'm starting all over, so I've got to be I've got to have a very strong spine.

[08:22]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm sure you'll do it and you'll you'll be fine.

[08:28]

Oh, I'm stubborn and I don't give in, so I will be fine. I know. I am making sure that I'll be fine.

[08:35]

You better believe I will be fine because I think what this is also this group has helped me to do is not to waver because I was more or less resolved.

[08:50]

I knew that that was what I wanted to do.

[08:52]

But it's more of how you think of yourself and your place in what's about to happen and how you develop a plan of action that you can stick to. Because, you know, the there's that outcome that your your your sort of you can't you can you have a clear vision of a better word as the end game. Yeah. So thank you very much.

[09:29]

OK, and that leads us perfectly to the first question. So there's actually five questions we're going to ask, and the first one is, what is your vision for? Your relationship is next year, so you've got an ultimate vision of what you want your relationship to be. And then as as I said, what is? Like, what is the step, so we'll win. I think we all want this perfect relationship and whatever, but there is sometimes things that we have to put in place.

[10:13]

Because it's not just about meeting someone and then everything being magical. It's about you have to have the foundations for you, you have have the foundations for the relationship. So what what is the what would you like this time next year? What would you like to have achieved in terms of relationship? So I'm going to ask that question and we'll go to the breakout rooms and this will be a shorter one. So if we go for six minutes, I think I guess most groups two minutes per person.

[10:52]

So if you if you can kind of go for two minutes each. When you get a link to come back, don't come straight back, let it kick you out and you still a minute from when that when you get that warning. Are you frozen peas, frozen peas and Ice Cube is gone.

[11:18]

So anybody in terms of relationships or what is anyone got any plans? Yeah, I have.

[11:24]

Can I just share quickly what my problem is so I can get out the way? Yeah. So good to see everyone today. I not as face as I was last week. I've chilled out a bit you know. Yeah. Much. I've got all of that out right now.

[11:40]

I'm really, really changed now so.

[11:45]

And thanks for being so patient with me, I appreciate. Yeah, I've just got a job in a forest school, which has been a bit of a dream of mine to to sort of work in alternative education. So I don't actually believe mainstream education is always good for every child. I would really love to meet my partner in that kind of environment where we have a common goal, like a partnership, not like we fall in love and can't live without each other, that kind of stuff, but a real partnership and a completely meaningful.

[12:18]

Yeah, common values and a vision of because this has been my vision for about 15 years of building an eco therapy cabin in the forest to help children that have gone through trauma and for people in addiction that need to rehabilitate, you know, for families and children. And yes, this is my vision.

[12:44]

You see a shared vision, shared goals, shared purpose in life. Yeah. And then so preferably he would be quite good at building. So I'm good. I'm good at designing. So I would be the designer and preferably he could build the house so we could work together. That would be awesome. That would be that's my dream.

[13:03]

Will his name be Bob Bob the Builder. No, I think his name is going to be like Bill, not Bob. And I just want to make sure that's okay.

[13:18]

Sarah is a really good guy that you just described what you're looking for, that you should have a shared purpose and goals and values. That's really good. I'd be fine. I'd be fine.

[13:26]

Oh, Betty, it's so nice to hear your voice. I didn't know you were in the I didn't know you were here today. Lovely to hear from you.

[13:34]

Yeah, good. Well, thank you. As anyone else.

[13:39]

Got anything to add. So I was just trying to show you what we were saying was if we could decide for next year where be like to be playing the road this time next year in terms of relationships, not so much as a New Year's resolution, but, you know, ideal situation will be hopefully find my life partner an amazing guy, you know?

[14:22]

But but but I mean, is that is that do you think that within a year you'll do that in a year?

[14:32]

I don't know. I guess like my learning now is how did how do you. How how do you. How do you enjoy the journey while you wait for someone who is absolutely amazing, because I'm not going to settle for anything else that is just absolutely amazing anymore. I'm done. Yes. Me first.

[14:54]

This time, you have to be able to enjoy the ups and the downs of the rollercoaster.

[15:01]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm just hoping to make friends by this time next year. I mean, obviously, I'd love to find somebody who will kind of go, well, you know, this is it. But I am being careful not to set myself any unrealistic expectations because then I'm setting myself for failure and it's just disappointment. So if I can meet a couple of people and have one or two good friends, that's, you know, anything about that is icing on the cake.

[15:39]

I am looking for fun if you are on the road, whether are you in London.

[15:47]

Let's go.

[15:48]

Though, just tell me and I'll be there. But on Wednesday nights and Friday nights, also dancing. You know, I've got to get home.

[15:59]

I'm sorry. It has to be in the day. Okay. So was a really nice family atmosphere.

[16:07]

Yeah. But you see, I'm at the stage where I think having lists what can.

[16:18]

Yeah.

[16:18]

You know what? On one hand it's good to know what you want, but I don't want to create a list that I am going to be checking boxes against somebody because they may be quite different, but yet still they are the best fit for me.

[16:35]

I am not looking for a husband and looking for somebody who complements me and enables me to be my whole self, including all of my craziness.

[16:50]

You either love it or you hate it.

[16:54]

And who is not threatened by my independence.

[17:00]

So that's going to be a hard sell, I'm sure.

[17:05]

And as I said in my group, I am not going to be this again. Been there, done that. So I don't want any projects.

Helen Fisher has the broadest study of relationships. She is an Anthropologist and Biologist who has studied over 80 different cultures looking for the universals of relationships. This is a discussion of her work.

Here's what we discussed...

Transcript

[00:00]

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. So tonight, we were talking about the work of Helen Fisher and Helen Fisher talks about relationships as being life's greatest prize. And so we talked about. The various formats of relationships, whether they were monogamous, whether they were, is it natural for us to be monogamous? Is promiscuity natural?

[00:44]

What's the like? What what format of relationship works? How do our narratives affect the way that we relate? And. How does the history of patriarchy and social control, how does that affect our relationship and essentially what we were trying to work out with which is which comes first, like the nature or nurture. And of course, both nature work within a context of nurture. OK, all right. So let's start tonight. So the topic tonight is life's greatest prize.

[01:36]

And so this is really what Helen Fisher talks about. She says that. Life's greatest prize is finding a mate, and it's the way that we have children, it's the way that we have companionship. And so we'll talk through all aspects now. Handfish work is probably the broadest of all the like. There's loads of books on relationships, but. They although, you know, like you got five love languages, which is probably one of the best selling, which is basically communication, you've got the government, which is about their shared house model.

[02:22]

You've got lots of other people that talk about relationships. We talked about stand talking before, but that's attachment theory. So they all talk about a small section of it. Whereas what Helen Fisher has done is she's an anthropologist and biologist. And so she's looked from like she goes back to 21 million years ago as to climate changes, as to, you know, that caused changes in. Primates that led to all the way that we interact today, so I mean, Herberg so why him?

[03:01]

Why her, why we stret, why we love. So what I want to do to start with is because they are so, so broad. I was looking at, you know, what are the questions we can put in the breakout rooms and this so much. So what I would like you to do is put in the chat box any particular questions that you would like to cover. So really what? So to give you some idea, just as a hands up, he's read the blog post that summarizes it.

[03:39]

OK, and so if you can write any questions that you have from that or anything you'd like to talk about tonight, we'll go from there. So if you knew down the bottom there's a chat box and you can write in there. Anything that you're interested in talking about? OK, so just and then we'll start tonight. So I'm just going to give you some housekeeping, so. What we're here for really is a safe place to explore, a safe place to explore ideas, to discuss relationship ideas and to come away with.

[04:30]

Some perspective that helps us in our relationships away from here, if you can if you can have your video on, so it just helps people see who they're talking to, especially when you go into the breakout rooms. Now, the discussion here is the audio is recorded and so you can listen to any meetup that you haven't attended, but the breakout rooms are private. So in the breakout room, you in a small group and it's just a chance to to talk because in the main room, we can't all get a chance.

[05:08]

Not everyone's comfortable talking to everyone else. Okay.

[05:18]

So right, so what we're going to do is we're going to discuss some topics, we're going to go breakout rooms to discuss them privately and come back and share one couple of bits of housekeeping is.

[05:38]

One of the first eral was asked a couple of meet ups ago about how he kept faith in dating in the face of. Failure, and he he was kind enough to share down his ideas, and so there's a blog post Woodchopper in the chat later, if you haven't had a chance to see it, and he's here to answer any questions so we can bring that up if anyone has anything to say in terms of etiquette. We have one person talking at a time, and if you have something that you want to contribute, then just put your hand up and if your camera's off, you can put your in.

[06:30]

I think it's some reactions, isn't it? You can put your hand up participants for you. Okay, so everyone's been hit by default just to block out background noise, if you want to jump in just a minute yourself or hand up. Okay, so the idea of monogamy is. I forgot the central idea is this one, yeah, one spouse, one spouse, that's it. So the idea of monogamy is one spouse, so.

[07:09]

From looking at. All of history and. The nature of relationships depends on the culture that they live in, so patriarchal relationships are very different from hunter gatherers and she talks about that. She talks about basically the 10000 years since we became agricultural.

[07:33]

We from hunter gatherers to farmers is really about.

[07:43]

Both men and women needed each other and members particularly needed because of the weight of the plow. And so this is basically where patriarchy came from because men had men were needed more. And so when you look at patriarchy is really. Catering to men's fears, it's controlling women, it's controlling the narrative, and so. Making so there's been so when you look at. Like the essential, essential evolutionary goals are, when you look at evolutionary psychology, the goals are for a man to perpetuate his genes and for a woman to ensure the safety of his children.

[08:37]

So. Every woman pretty much knows. That her children are has no man can really be sure. And so when you look at. Taking away money, independence from women, and that's really about. Limiting access, their access and their freedom to. To basically cheat so that the man knows his children, that his children and his OK, so one.

[09:13]

So one so that's really where monogamy in the patriarchy has generally been, not unless men had the resources, when men had the resources, it was only about like in cultures where polygamy, multiple wives is is available to something like five to 10 percent of men who have the resources. And she uses the story. A lot of she talked to a Negaunee man who had three wives, I think, and she said, well, how many wives would you like?

[09:49]

He said, none. And basically, she talks about the problems of jealousy because while you can. Okay. I think we need to backtrack to the central premise of Helen Fisher is that there are three wives. There's the sex drive. There's the romantic drive and there's deep attachment. And so what she shows from her brain. The neuroscience research is that they operate on different. Different aspects. So they're driven by different hormones. But she says all three of them are cool.

[10:38]

They come from the like the reptilian brain, the cool brain stem. So they're as important to us as. Hunger as first, and so he says that they're equally. Equally important, however, they work independently of each other and so we can find someone attractive and be sexually attracted to them. But the Rachmat, so she talks about, OK, so the sex drive is basically testosterone driven and so tested testosterone and estrogen. I think it is so that works on lust.

[11:27]

The romantic drive. Is. I can't remember which Doberman and the romantic drive is about. Focusing on one person, it's focusing your attention on one person and then a deep attachment she proposes is an idea, is a mechanism to attach parents, which seems to be for about three or four years, because when she looks historically at relationships and she looks even like way back in the past that there tended to be, she says all societies had a form of divorce.

[12:11]

It didn't used to have any stigma or shame to it. It was just like they're not happy together. And about a third, probably about a third of couples would divorce and they would just but they would always remarry, which is why she says it's an instinctive drive and.

[12:30]

So those three work independently of each other, which is why. Why we. Why we why there's so much infidelity and she looks back and she says there's always been infidelity and it used to be quiet, like she she gives examples of cultures where they sort of turn a blind eye to it, sort of like Italy and. Where unless it was blatant in their face, they just accepted that they had other partners. So. Am I making clear does anyone have any any comments or.

[13:24]

But the discussion, more or less, this ignores matriarchy. Yeah, make sure it's. It deals with it, it deals with the issue of infidelity in a way in a different way. You can you talk a bit more about that?

[13:48]

OK, like, for example, that group of people, that tribe I can't remember the name in China near the border with Nepal and Tibet. I think it is they have something called a walk in marriage. And the men don't live with the women and the women. The children belong to the village because sometimes they don't even know who their fathers are. And the men have to be invited to spend the night with the woman and at her place and hence the walking, because then he walks back home to his mother every morning in the morning and it can be a different mind all the time.

[14:23]

And they're all they're all OK.

[14:28]

The men don't fight each other in terms of jealousy over the particular woman, because I suppose those who are in favor would probably also have many partners, but it seems to work out and the children belong to everybody in the village. So they're all parents. Of all the children and you know, hmm. Yeah, there are cultures where there is a cultural comment. Which one it is, but I believe that when a woman is pregnant, she will try and mate with.

[15:04]

All the men in the village that have characteristics that she she wants her child to have, and I believe that they all contribute to the child. And so someone who's intelligent, someone who's a great warrior, someone who's kind, someone who's this. And so there's also the idea that.

[15:30]

Which is one of the reasons they say, like, why do women was like, why do women cheat? Or I'm part of it is that they are protecting their children. If if everyone knew his father, who was the father of a child and they were rivals for powerful resources in that tribe, they could be killed, which is one of the reasons why. Monogamy is what Helen Fisher says, monogamy is basically the way that we work, because while we can be poly, poly, polygamy, polyamorous or have different arrangements, we haven't evolved past jealousy.

[16:26]

And it's those basic. So when she talks about relationships where there were multiple and she does talk about multiple husbands, will they that's that's a lot rarer there.

[16:40]

There's like children being poisoned, his wives fighting each other constantly. And so. It just seems to complicate things, so her view is that. The best the one that works best is monogamy, although she talks about because we want that commitment, so it's commitment, but also we've planned clandestine affairs. And. I read a really good book, actually is called Sex at Dawn, and it was recommended by Sarah Pasko, actually a comedian, and yeah, she was likening human beings to saying that we were closely aligned to bonobos.

[17:30]

But it was it was quite interesting at looking at the polyamorous, um, aspect of it from an anthropological point.

[17:43]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, usually, you see, I think one of the problems is that because we've had 2000 years of Christianity and I mean, we I'm talking having come from a Western society, which is mostly Christian in more of, you know, the culture. And so what's happened is sex has become stigmatized and shamed. And so we look at. Monogamy as being moral. Whereas she's not saying that at all, because if you look at different societies, they'd have different arrangements and the arrangements, determine the arrangements and determine basically by the culture, which is determined by the environment and the situation of the people.

[18:37]

So we can have relationships in all kinds of ways. And that's basically practical, but. Predominantly, it's one man, one woman, and it doesn't mean one man, one woman for life, she talks about there being a three or four year high, which is like the attachment stage. And after that. It's kind of like the high point and I think the problem. With that is because we don't have a. Mechanism for dealing with relationships past that up till then.

[19:22]

I don't think we have so she's very positive about relationships, she talks about, you know, the agricultural thing and now women are increasingly getting their independence. So we're now reverting back to pre agricultural because what's happened with the industrial revolution is that you've separated resources from the relationship because a husband and wife had to stay together because if one left, the other couldn't cope and one had to leave with nothing because you couldn't separate farm. Whereas now when you have, you got to work, you earn your money, you have resources that can be separated.

[20:11]

So monogamy is one monogamy as one spouse. So it can be one at a time, so you're like lifelong monogamy would be. Yeah, so whether it's staying together forever or serial monogamy. OK, so. Pete, I'm not sure did I answer that question or is there any more? You know, like when you said about sorry to go back, hi, my name's Sarah. Hi, guys. You said about that a man needs to know who their child is.

[20:51]

I think you made a pretty good point about the woman. Always knows, obviously, where you know her child, but the man might think that the child is someone else's. But that is not just that does not correlate just with why men need to dominate the woman. The reason why a man historically needed to dominate a woman wasn't just to do with that. That issue was to do. You're talking about an insecurity in the man and a lack of trust in the relationship, whereas the reason why women were dominated historically was a multilayered I mean, how long if you go.

[21:29]

But it's to do with power and control society. And historically, a woman was dominate it because of power and control. And I still think to some extent that is true politically. If you look at the political background that we're living in, 80 percent of the houses of parliament is made up by man. Whereas in New Zealand I've lived in New Zealand, that's what I know. It's about 70 percent of women that they are in parliament and culturally New...

Like computers have operating systems so do we. In this episode I tried to explain how our O/S affects our relationship.

This discussion is based on the following blog post;

https://makerelationshipssimple.com/evolution-relationship-operating-system/

Transcript

[00:00]

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. So basically, we were talking tonight about the evolution of the operating system and the operating system is the cultural narrative for how relationships. Function for the narrative around what a relationship means, how it's formed, how why expectations we should have and how we can fix it if if if it goes wrong. So we looked at the level so level one is basically the caveman level of tightwire I want.

[00:48]

Level two is the more civilized a sense of like we have to be here in within civilization, we have to take care of other people. And so it's the deal making level where we make deals of maybe it's not a so we might see this level now in terms of a golddigger relationship or a sugar daddy sugar relationship where someone marry someone for. Some other reason than than love or attraction level three was from about a 12th century, I think up until now the prevailing cultural narrative has been that we marry for love, that we marry because we meet the person that sets us alive and we fall in love and they are the one and love.

[01:47]

So I think we move to level four when we recognize that the fairytale myth doesn't work to level four is about a level of confusion. It's recognizing the narrative that still culturally we have. Doesn't work, and it's more of a pragmatic response of that doesn't work. So what will and I think the movement to study relationships, I think people like Harville Hendrix, people who've advocated more progressive relationships, has an open or polyamory and that kind of relationship. Our reactions to the recognition level three doesn't work.

[02:37]

So the minor upgrade to to that is recognizing that its skills and knowledge that can help us to develop our relationships, and it's the recognition that we can no more, that we can impact our relationships and level the next evolution is the sense of we recognize that our life is essentially a story and it's every story that's given to us or it's a story that we create and it's recognizing that we don't have to take the narrative that we're given culturally, but that we can transcend that and create our own narrative.

[03:31]

And so it's it's taking. Our life and our situation and making a story and recognize that we're consciously using that as a construct until. We find data that contradicts it. And so it's recognizing that we create narrative in terms of. What things mean to us, and it's just being consciously in control of that. The idea is that it's a buffet of ideas, so we all can bring and share our own perspectives and our own ideas and you take what you want.

[04:08]

So there's no one, right? There's no one. We're not here to convince anyone. We're not here. No one's right. No one's wrong. It's just an idea where we can share ideas and take from whatever is useful to the main room where we are now is recorded. And the audio with the main room will be a podcast. So you can catch up on any of the meet ups by looking at any of the past on a podcast.

[04:35]

You can look at any of the past ones and catch up on any that you've missed. If there's a problem with the breakout room, you can leave the breakout room and come back. I'll be in the main room and I'll help you reassign. Also, if you if you have an Internet connection problem and you get dropped out, then I'll be in the main room and help you get back into your breakout room. I'll give you a link for feedback later.

[05:03]

So any problems or any ideas for future meet ups? Like I said earlier that we discussed in December, we got the Christmas party, so share any ideas.

[05:18]

Also, just want to let you know in the new year, obviously there's going to be lots of people starting dating.

[05:25]

It's a time when New Year's resolutions and people decide to start dating. So I'm going to be doing the pilot study last month. And so start dating. Right. Is going to be opening in just in between Christmas and New Year's so people can get started. And that's basically a there's details on that on make relationships simple dot com. And if you go there, if you look at the start dating. Right, that's a month long training in online dating messaging coming soon is just finalizing the curriculum for relationship mastery system, which is going to be like the start date in what is a cut down version of that or cut down version of part of that.

[06:18]

But the curriculum is a system of relationship building that's going to be coming in January. Right. So now so the topic of tonight is the evolution of the relationship operating system. Now, in order for us to be able to discuss it, I know it's kind of a. It's an abstract idea, and it's maybe not. Immediately obvious what it is. So first of all, I want to just clear up any misunderstandings or not.

[06:56]

Not not knowing what a relationship operating system is so that we can go into the breakout rooms with some solid idea of of what a relationship operating system is. So if I if I mention relationship operating system, who thinks what's. How does that apply? Or is everyone clear that it was in the blog post or Spain, so I can explain a bit, that would be great because I don't think I fully grasp the concept.

[07:32]

Yeah, OK.

[07:33]

So basically, I like if you look at your mobile phone, it has it's got hardware. So that limits the scope of the camera and the ability of what it tells the speed of its processor, things like that. It has the IRS or Angel or whatever the equivalent Android is of the operating system. And then within that, it has the apps and the apps allow you to use the phone to do specific functions, so like message or take pictures or whatever is now my.

[08:11]

My proposition is that we have humans have a similar set up, we have genes which are genetic or genetic capability, what we're going to be the colorize, we have the skin color, the person, the temperamental factors.

[08:32]

So that's the hardware. We can't there's bound to within which we can change that. The and then on top of that, we've got a relationship operating system. And the operating system is the set of frameworks and beliefs that we have about the world and more particularly about how relationships work. And so that said, basically in a relationship, when you react without really considering every element and nuance of the interaction, which is basically how we interact most of the time, then we're working from on autopilot.

[09:14]

And when you're walking on autopilot, it's from the operating system.

[09:19]

Does that make sense? We're trying to analogize the humans way, working through the use of technology.

[09:28]

Yes, it's basically a computer. The operating system mediates between apps, which is skills in humans and the basic hardware. So in order to for a human to function, they have to have a view of the world, a set of beliefs and rules of thumbs. And so those rules of thumb are what we operate on, unless we give a lot of focused attention to a specific instance. So what would be the what would we what was the aim of the debate?

[10:11]

What specifically out of this concept?

[10:14]

OK, so the evolution of the operating system is the five basic is the way that I see that relationships have evolved. So initially, when you go back to caveman times, it was I want an answer to the cavemen, you know, dragging a woman by the by a hair and with a club taking what you wanted. So the next evolution was we civilized, we we civilized. Then we realized that in order to get this, we had to do this.

[10:52]

And so it's about we're looking at how do I get what I want? What do I have to do? What do I have to give? We don't have to pretend.

[11:05]

And so when you look at like pick up, pick up and chat up lines, that's basically what do I have to do to get what I want.

[11:17]

The next evolution is the romantic.

[11:22]

Operating system, which is the idea of I feel like this, therefore it must be love and therefore it must be fight, the next evolution was really evolved from a confusion where with political with the rise in independence and equality of women and I not knowing what to do, kind a sense of confusion of what are the rules, what, what, how these things work. And so then it's it's. The use of skills within that, and I believe that the next evolution is a personal narrative based.

[12:08]

So does that make sense generally? Yeah. And is everyone so vacay with the basic concept, when you say operating system, do you mean underlying beliefs then paradigm? Yes.

[12:26]

So when I talk about the fairy tale model, that is a framework that is a that is like operating system free. Is anyone else? I know this is quite strange.

[12:48]

Explain the artisan in the master samples.

[12:53]

OK, thank you. Um. Let me let me see that he said basically, I know, right?

[13:06]

I so basically that is that if the value model of where you go from here to here.

[13:16]

So the line is. Once you're free or operating below the line, so it's it's subpar results. OK, so I'm sorry, I'm not saying that was the mastermind looking at the wrong one. Is that the one on the very top? Yes, four five point Zero Mostel and four point one one. OK, inscription the fine and artisan consolidate to make sure I cross it right.

[13:52]

OK, I'm seeing a different image, but I do know that there was the Arsenal master. Basically, artisan is basically master is someone who's gone past artisan level. So it's a higher level of a more effective operating system. And this is on the operating system. Post an evolution of relationship operating system. Yeah, it's the one on the meetup post. Oh, I may have posted a slightly different one. I'm sorry. No, no, no, it's okay.

[14:36]

I had no sorry. It was my fault. I picked the wrong one. Oh, my. That's a changed one. Okay. So so basically, it's like caveman settlers in civilization. Okay, so so someone who's operating at the caveman level, they're the prescription for them to to get to the next level is to have empathy to the caveman level, doesn't have empathy and settlor level is to level of within a civilization and aspiring to want more than that.

[15:08]

Kind of like what's given.

[15:11]

And then the dreamer is the kind of romantic dreamer. But the the next that prescription is to challenge and think a little bit more critically. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Okay. Right. So the topic of the breakout room is. To really consolidate the idea of the relationship operating system for you, what you understand of it and how it can impact relationships. So maybe in personal experiences, if you see somewhere where it's impacted your relationships, if you see other people operating from certain levels.

[16:04]

That will be another example. Does that make sense to everyone? Just released through the lake that you are basing this on into the chat so that we can just make sure. Well, yeah, we're looking at the same time.

[16:24]

She should be the first link in the chat and I will post it again. Chat. Okay, go. Okay, so the topic is really discussing what a relationship operating system is doesn't make sense to you. What do you understand it?

[16:58]

Because our understanding each side is a kind of foreign concept, you understand, because I think it's OK, I'm repeating someone's audio.

[17:12]

And so what what what you understand, Biak, and what impact it has on relationships. How does that make sense? OK, I will. Just one more time, please. OK, right, quick show of hands.

[17:41]

Does a relationship operate? The system makes sense. Do you have a vague idea of what it might be? Hands up. Hands down. Hands up, if you have a vague idea and you can use the reactions if you haven't got camera on.

[18:04]

OK. Right, OK, right, so so you sorry, Sandra was not. Yes, yeah, OK, so. When we function, we function most of the time and rule of thumb, we function without thinking. So when we're driving, we learn to drive and it becomes automated. So initially, it's really awkward and it's learning the skill and we have to constrain everything we do. Like, I don't know if anyone else, when they're parking has to turn the music off so that they can accommodate things at once.

[18:45]

So. The relationship operating system is what do you function on when you're not thinking about it, when you're just relating, when you're when you're thinking of what your partner does or has done? What are you referring to? You know, when people say they should do this, what are you referring to? So it's gut instinct or rational thought. So where's the gut instinct coming in from?

[19:22]

OK, so it's the belief somewhere you have to have an expectation of what a relationship is, certainly of how it works. That's the relationship operating system. OK, right. OK, we're going to go to the breakout rooms for 12 minutes. When you get a link to come back, don't come back straight away because you still got a minute of the conversation. Welcome back. OK, so. How about room one? What what was your discussion, what was.

[20:14]

Any questions or examples that you can share?

[20:22]

We wondered if people had different operating systems would be compatible....

Commitment sounds like effort. It sounds boring and dull.

Yet total commitment is easier than partial commitment.

We're always committed. But what we commit to determines the level of quality of our relationships. Here's what I suggest we should commit to...

Transcript

[00:00]

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips. So tonight, we were talking about the five commitments and the five commitments that we have to be committed to in order to have the relationship of the quality that we warm. And the idea is that we have those commitments so that we're not forever judging each situation individually, so that we know what we're committed to and what conditions we're committed to them under.

[00:48]

And so the commitment, the five commitments are to build a relationship of equals based on trust, respect and kindness, to learn what it takes to make a relationship work. To take complete responsibility for your relationships. To commit to choosing a partner based on the qualities and their ability for a long term successful relationship and a commitment to to being the quality of partner that you expect. And so the the idea is that if you have the commitment to those, those become your boundaries, those become your the standards that you aspire to, and so that you're able to nip problems in the bud.

[01:38]

OK, so welcome, everyone. So the topic tonight we've got is the five commitments and basically. The the idea is that. One hundred percent commitment is easier than 99 percent. Okay, so before we actually start with the main topic, I'm just going to run through expectations. And if anyone is new to the meeting and insight of what's going to we're going to do ahead. So the whole point of this group is to having a safe place to honestly discuss relationships.

[02:15]

So everyone's opinion is valid. No one's opinion dominates. It's not about being right. It's just about having a place, a safe place, that we can discuss relationships in a way that maybe we wouldn't with people that we see in our everyday life. There's no stupid questions. Everyone's anything that you could be struggling with, other people who can act out as well. It's always good to clarify and redefine. So how it works is in the main room, we have a discussion this the audio is recorded and so then you can catch up on any time that you've missed out on the breakout rooms are private, so that doesn't get recorded.

[03:01]

And I want his other than the people that you're discussing with. If you can if you can have it, Kameron, because this is a person-to-person interaction, it just makes people feel better, especially in the break room. Some people feel some people feel uncomfortable and it's going to change how people perceive you if you don't have your camera on, because people are going to think, who am I talking to? So, of course, there are reasons sometimes because of bandwidth, because of where you are and what you do.

[03:32]

You can't if you can in the breakout room. If you just explain to people why you can't have the camera on you or you don't have the cameraman, OK? So I think that's most of it. If there's any problems in the breakout room, if you leave, I'll be in the main room and I can reassign you. I'm going to put a link in the chat later. That's for any feedback, comments or suggestions. OK, so let's start with the main the main topic, so the topic is the five commitments.

[04:06]

And so basically this is about. The fact that if you haven't made a decision is tyring to make decisions, so if you. Wait until you see how you feel, you end up never going to the gym, you end up eating the cake, you end up buying the impulse buy. And in the same way, with dieting and relationships, it means that if you go to a dating site and you're not really committed to it, you're going to give up when you have a bad interaction in a relationship, which means it's more stressful because you're always thinking, am I in this relationship or am I not?

[04:41]

Would I you should I leave? Is the grass greener? So you always have to make like one different decisions. And research shows us that making a decision is tiring. And so the less decisions we have to make, the more energy we have for the big decisions. So in a blog post, I share some information I shared about Barack Obama and Mark Zuckerberg and Steve Jobs, who basically made the decision to always wear the same thing. And they wore the same thing because it meant that they never had to make a decision about what they were going to wear.

[05:25]

So they had the energy freed up for the big decisions. So. If you have basically the gist of the article I wrote was if you have if you make Clear-cut decisions, it means you never have to make a decision whether to change the game, whether it's about whether to do this or to do that, whether you're in the relationship or not, it means that you just get on and do it. And most of our energy and most of the anguish in relationships is about my decisions.

[05:58]

So. Yet I don't believe that you will, you always need to. Relationships are going to be conditional because. You're not in a bad or a good decision then. Because you say that it's tiring, but it's also sort of. There's a need, a desire to make a good decision, so time spent thinking about and weighing up the consequences of making the decision, is that not worthwhile just to make a good decision yet?

[06:43]

Definitely. So. For example, I think there was there was a spate of there was a time like the 80s and 90s when. All business groups that were basically taking what was in the Japanese style of business of Khoisan and continuous improvement and things like that, and basically one of the differences when they go over their ideas, they didn't always work because there is a different culture. And one of the important parts of the Japanese culture is that it seems to be that they all agree.

[07:23]

But actually, they spend a long time before they make the decision in private discussing it. And they they hear all sides of this, quite a lot of diversity in the way that they make the decision. But then once they made the decision and they all agreed to it. So, yes, I think you should make it. You need to spend a lot of time on working out what the right decision is and obviously should review it sometimes. But I think and really what I've done in the five commitments that we're going to talk about is.

[07:59]

What I believe are the keys to the key decisions to commit to so. I think you should make a decision, but with that is conditional. So people want unconditional love, but the reality is humans for the most part, are capable of that and.

[08:26]

If someone I don't think anyone should stay in a relationship where there's abuse, where there's violence, where there's control, where there's manipulation. So I think there needs to be clear. Boundaries of what what is unacceptable? But what you don't want to be making a constantly remaking the decision is. I don't feel so great today. Am I am I still in this or this person is more attractive and maybe I've got a chance with them should, you know, chopping and changing because that kind of chopping and changing is always going to is never going to lead to lasting happiness.

[09:10]

So it's really yes, so there's a lot a lot of build up to make the decision and to be clear. And yes, you can change the decision. Because as we evolve and as we change, we get more clarity and we can make better decisions. So I think. The what would they now is who go to small breakout rooms. To actually start for one minute. And think about how does this apply in your life? So for some of us, it's going to be.

[09:54]

So, for example, I've been trying to give up sugar and I've mostly given up I've given up chocolate, but sometimes it's like you had you've had dinner and you really feel like a cake or a biscuit. And that's the worst time to make a decision. So that's really my plan. So some people decide to exercise light based on how they feel and then they go to work and they are not too tired. And so they end up never going to the gym.

[10:24]

Some people go out and make a decision to buy something when they shopping based on whatever it feels like a good deal of the time. For a lot of people dating, it's like they get a couple of bad. They have a bad experience, they have a bad message and they go, dieting doesn't work. I'm giving up. And in relationships, it's they have a bad day. They're not feeling good about their partner in that day, that week.

[10:54]

And so they decided maybe I'll be better in a different relationship. So we'll take one minute to think about how does this apply to your life? What area are you making decisions based on how you feel in the moment? Is this exclusively for relationships or does any of you know, first of all, is to think about any area so it could be excited to be. It could be money, work, whatever. OK, everyone's back and you can meet everyone again by yourself so we can arm yourselves one at a time to talk.

[11:47]

Anyone got any question, comment or insight in that on that concept, on the idea of making a decision up front al-Qaida's. I think it's good to have a balance of being disciplined or organized the way I tried to perceive it that you were saying, Rob, is it's not good to be doing everything off a boss. Believe maybe that's disorganized or. It's got to be organized, put. Is it because some people might be very old and too organized to planned a robbery relative, you said tossed you out for a pint tonight, a bit like I always do in Washington.

[12:44]

Would I always go to the gym on a Monday? And these very little flexibility, not friends, family, potential partner, it can disrupt things and make things not as good as they could be. They could be better if you don't be flexible with people. I described I knew a female friend. It was very organized about chores and this is my day off. I always do my washing on my day off. She was like not my friends, but she was like potentially meet someone as well.

[13:17]

Well, I told her myself, I said. A year later, two years later, I said, I've seen changes in you that when you're texting me. It seems as if he'd been more flexible with this new leaders on this aid, an hour to go because I wasn't interested, but I said I see it seems as if you're not being so rigid with that person. Maybe that's because it's more of a person that you think they might be the one and you, whereas all the people you did, either it was you or the Arab or you're willing to make that more effort to be more flexible.

[13:53]

And I still think there's a good balance between being organized, because sometimes it's good because if you're organized and it can accommodate other things, if it was organized tonight, you could say right. Teased or dressed. And I asked myself and then some somebody randomly might say, well, and the good old days, do you want to come to the pub randomly? But you might say no, sorry, I've still got potatoes. Are you Zarganar? You might have the night free.

[14:20]

I'll be that flexibility and doing things on impulse switch date where Rob actually go. Text does talk about oh, we hadn't planned it. As the most disorganized and spontaneous person, I am fully with you, I think it is it just for the big decisions, for the real, really important things. I think this is like you make those ahead of times. But I'm just going to bring in Catherine CACC. Good to see you here. Yeah, thank you.

[14:58]

Thank God they worked out for me. So what came up for me that I think it will definitely free me up to have time and energy to make bigger decisions is to predetermine what I'm going to have for breakfast and and dinner, because I don't really I don't have a preference. It will just make my life easier. But I really care about lunch. So then lunch will be a little more flexible. And every day I have something different, but I might have a theme.

[15:25]

Mondays is Taco Monday since I could do it their way and they just do it that way. But that can be applied to anything else. The things that are not as important and that we do a lot of marriage, why not have it set? So then when something big comes up, then we already have the energy and excited to do it. And also we have flexibility. Our own schedule is our own decision. So something changes. You have the freedom to say, I changed my mind or I have something planned, but because that sounds more fun, I want to do this.

[16:02]

Yeah, I think. I've had that kind of thinking about like if I if I set a time when I'm going away, I don't always have to make the decision because otherwise I'm sitting there and I'm working and I'm thinking pretty hungry, really fancy. Three and half the time is an excuse to get out of. You like to procrastinate. Alan.

[16:31]

Yeah, I remember about 14, something like that, I was I was on a bus to school and basically the stop before school was where the shots were. And it was it must have been like the longest space between bus stops in the world. It was massive, about four miles. So it was a big decision. Do I get off and get a chocolate bar and not walk to school or do I go to school?

[16:57]

And by the time it made my decision, I realized I was actually off the Boston. I couldn't believe it. I was like, wow, what's going on there? And so I automatically taking myself off the bus because the impulse of the chocolate bar was more important than the war. The school. Well, I've never forgot that because I think it's an important thing of. It's did it automatically and I think where we come, where it will lead to potentially and this is the automatic thinking, because if something is we breed automatic, we are happy to automatically.

[17:40]

And. Thinking, as you said, it only requires requires energy, and even if we know what we're going to have for our economy, we know what we're going to work already.

[17:57]

Then those decisions don't take away the energy. And I suppose we can then apply the energy elsewhere in our lives. I say in the group that I despise going to Japan when I will put it off and put it off and put it off. Well, I do spend a lot of time thinking about what will have me saying, you know, I asked for of food, I think it definitely is definitely something to it. And I think maybe getting some sort of balance in place would leave people in a better place more.

[18:36]

Hello, Fresh really worked for me with food. Because they just give you you just pick them up a couple of weeks in advance and then it's just which pack Imran is Imran.

[18:54]

Maria, it's Maria. Sorry, it's my surname. Yeah.

[19:00]

So I'd love to I forgot his name, but the person who said about the balance between being organized and...

If, as we have said previously, relationships are a quest, then what is the landscape we have to journey through?

Transcript

[00:05]

Welcome to honest talk about heartbreak, dating and relationships, relationships, the podcast helping you navigate your path to happy ever after with your host, Rob McPhillips.

To summarize today's talk in five minutes, so we were talking about the relationship landscape and we talked about instead of looking at. Relationships as being more evident than in the moment, being the zoom out and see them from a bigger time scale, from being able to see your whole life, being able to see how the specific situation that you're in at the moment is just a speck in the big scheme of things.

[00:56]

You have a sense of perspective, being able to visualize the landscape as if you were creating a film, as if you were creating a drawing so that you are able to visualize the emotional states so that you have more ability to look at and. Journey to where you want to go to whatever visualization that you can use is the way that your brain is, is structuring the way it thinks, and so that visualization can tell you how you're looking at the situations of your relationship status.

[01:43]

So we looked at someone had a series of mountains that they had to climb. Someone else was on the edge of a forest and I didn't know what was in the forest. And someone else was confused and not knowing where they're going. And so we looked at what our fears are then. And in the current our current relationships situation, what priority we have to overcome. What was this at and. What what do we do next? So I think that was kind of it, but if I missed anything major out, jump in.

[02:26]

So thank you for being here tonight. If if anyone's got a few minutes to talk about the meetings in general and feedback. Stay on. Otherwise, good night and thank you for being here. So tonight's topic is the relationship landscape. So. We'll get into that in a minute, but just a few things I wanted to take over. Thank you to the people, asked people for opinions and simply said that was quite interesting. Quite a lot to go for.

[03:06]

So possibly at the end of the session or perhaps another time. Well, we'll go through some of those. For anyone new, if you can if you can put your camera on just so we can see you, if you're not comfortable, that that's fine. The so what we do is we're going to have a discussion, we're going to run free like some Startrek sizes and some breakout rooms, so, I mean, the breakout rooms we have is more private discussion.

[03:46]

In the main room, the conversation is recorded. We don't use the video, but we use the audio. So any meeting we've had, you can go back and listen to. What was? OK. So. I think my strengths. So the idea of relationship landscape, does that bring up anything for anyone? Is it confusing or does it before I was quite looking forward to learning what it's all about.

[04:24]

OK, I'll ask this because. What I want to start with is. Really tapping into your imagination kind of might seem a bit weird, but I thought this might be. Because it's something different. This is just the way I kind of envisaged it, and I think it might be useful for you.

[04:49]

So. Before you have any preconceptions, it might be an idea just to go through this exercise to. Exercise your imagination. So if you want to have a camera on camera off as fine seconds, Meeteetse, I'm just going to run free this. And what we're really looking for is how do you envisage it so I don't know if you have any pen and paper about. Or access to it. And you're not going to need it right now, but at the end.

[05:31]

Will. It might be helpful for you to have it. OK, is everyone saying if everyone sits somewhere with a relaxed when they feel comfortable with this little background noise, they can. De. And if you just said, well, we're going to start with this is a breathing exercise, so if you can breathe in really nice before. And in breathe out through your mouth, I said. Every evening for. And in breathing out, Farai.

[06:24]

And then if you see if you can just relax and if you focus on your breathing and keep that breathing pattern and then. Relaxing. Each time that you breathe. So this and now next time when you breathe in, if you can support your muscles. So, Brevin, for. Tense up and breathe out for right to relax. And then just relax. More and more. So if you can imagine all your stresses and worries and concerns and if you imagine just putting them in the bag and just leaving them.

[07:16]

And should you just relax? And then imagine that you can leave them up. You've got a bird's eye perspective. And then above you, above your home. Above the city. Now, if you can imagine your life in a line. And you can see where it begins. And you can see where it goes to. And pick out some of the milestones, the relationship milestones. And just imagine what they were, a deck of cards, you can just pick out a few of the cards, so you pick out a few of the incidents.

[08:20]

As The Receptively Review. And just zulily. We're going to go to the land of relationships and imagine that there's this land. We talked about it being a quest. So the idea of the land is that there has to be a land. The question is within. So. Looking back, looking down. What does this land look like? What can you see? What can you smell or can you touch? What places are in? Where have you been to?

[09:11]

Where are you going to? And what's the journey you have to make? To get from where you are to where you want to be. So if you look look around. Where are the different places? Where is the hazardous? With the easy pass. And then when you're ready. Zoom back about back above. And then back down to the now. Feel being back in your body. And then open your eyes. OK, so for if you have pen and paper, draw out what came to you, what was around, what is the relationship landscape like, if you were in a.

[10:29]

Bad place, where is it if you're in a good place, where is it? And. Map out where all the different places that you could be within the relationship landscape, where you single, where someone. Where is. It's stressful. Where is it lonely, where do you feel love? Where were you happy? And what are the obstacles? And so when you've got something and you feel ready, if you just put in a check ups.

[11:12]

I'm going to open up the breakout rooms so you can discuss it in a small group, if you're still working on it, then just ignore the breakout room invitation. If there's no one talking in the breakout room, if you just leave the breakout room and you'll come back to the main room and then I can reassign you to a different way. If there's a problem in the breakout rooms, there's ask for help. Link, so you get an invitation now when the warning comes that last minute, if you stay in, you've still got a minute to finish your conversations and then automatically bring you back.

[12:01]

And if you're still working on it, then just. Carol, know the breakout. Welcome back then you won't have anything to share about their landscape. My landscape was mountains and a path, no, not a path, a little spot on the ground because there is no path because yeah, I don't work well between the three or four of us, we decided that we're a little bit confused and a bit hesitant about going forward because probably because of past past problems from previous relationships and then.

[12:44]

Yes, like a conflict between what you want and what you're willing to sort of try. Yeah, that's that's definitely what I am at the moment with my little my little spot in the mountains.

[12:59]

OK, so you up in the mountain, you know, I'm at the bottom of a bunch of mountains.

[13:05]

OK, yes. That's a big trek yet. OK, thank you. Anyone else? I can dive in if nobody else wants to go. You know, what I would do is I'm just going to meet everyone if you can meet Sulpher and then whoever wants to talk just so that we don't have background noise going on our. OK, sorry, so mine is mine is a forest below a thick forest. I suppose I'm on that. I'm on the pathway what's behind me, but I left it.

[13:50]

Well, there was a fireplace. Let's just saying I wouldn't say it was quite demonic or anything like that, but it just wasn't a nice place.

[14:02]

And for a while it got really bad.

[14:05]

But now I left the place and I'm moving to a place which I feel is going to be a lot better. I can see some clearing up ahead, but I don't really know whether they are the actual destination that I want to be at. But the excitement for me is that at this I'm going to find out. I'm going to get there. But I'm also preparing myself that it may not be what I was looking for. After all, you know, the gold may not necessarily be in the clearing or it may not be in the other clearing.

[14:37]

So mentally, I'm also prepared not to get too too disappointed if it isn't what I'm looking for and to try and enjoy the journey that I've got there, I've seen it at least and know if along the way I happen to see flowers, tears, you know, whatever, that that's great.

[14:58]

I've learned things. I've seen things, I've experienced things. So to take the journey for what it is also not to have a bit like Alice in Wonderland, I suppose, not have a clock like the Revit time shield of matter. Obviously this is all metaphoric, right. For but so that there is no concept of time. It is just the journey. And I just enjoy the journey as you go through it. And some things don't, don't just rush through and then miss.

[15:34]

But that was a nice bunch of flowers. There was the city. I mean there is a journey to be had, of course, and you don't want to spend too long analyzing a particular theatre or something, but at the same time, you want to not miss things around you. So it's a little bit balance for me as I go through the journey. That's best to I see if that makes sense to anybody, I can put it into plain English.

[16:00]

Well.

[16:04]

You want me to throw you just spend forever wandering around the forest without making it through the forest, though there is the potential, which is why I said it's a very good idea that you picked up on this like it is like peeping through at the end of the forest.

[16:19]

It's over that way. Can well, I mean, I and that's why I said not to spend too long just analyzing all over analyzing something and looked like possible. And it's a it's a balancing act so long as you feel comfortable with your because life is such that you can change what you want. So you may decide that actually this isn't what I want anymore. Actually I want something else. And so long as you're comfortable and you will not look back on it with regret, that's the most important thing.

[16:55]

So what I don't want to do is look back on my journey and regret that I didn't spend time or I spent too much time, but at the same time, don't get too scared to spend the time, will not spend the time and get yourself paralyzed in that, you know, you just do what feels natural, what feels right. But keep your eye on where you want to go. Don't take your eye off where you want to go and analyze.

[17:21]

It is still where I want to go to. I still want to see that. Yes. OK, then carry on, because today I may look at certain things. Maybe I reach a clearing and I look at it and I go this type of clearing sort of total waste of time. There's nothing as total rubbish. When I come back to the path, if I see a similar clearing, I'm not going to go and explore it perhaps and just move on to something else entirely.

[17:48]

Has anyone else got a different. Landscape. And when you think about going up out to Tea Party type of thing, I don't know of anyone in the manga cartoon Akira and it's like a big Nayo Tokyo landscape. And that's kind of where where I went. And I was like looking like a big mouth. And I was looking down and. Everything locked in significant insignificance at the same time. And. I didn't really associate with the other people that were there with.

[18:36]

And I didn't know because you talk about whether you want to go, what direction do you want to be in? And I was totally unsure about which which direction to go in. And I think that was amplified by the fact that I was up in the air in the. And. In this particular landscape, so, yeah, from a visualisations point of view, I mentioned it in the in the break up rooms that I took, the exercise is being.

[19:10]

To. Look into your own life from an external point of view, rather than one which we often do, where we look with limited viewpoints.

[19:27]

So I think taking something positive from it. Usually that image of command that created when you talk, and I think that's a good way of stepping out of your situation and trying to look at it from maybe a different perspective than what you currently go, that's the way I that away.

[19:48]

It's also.

[19:52]

When you look at fairy stories and even films now, they are the way that we work out our fears, what we're dealing with. So, for example, dreams, one of the ideas of reasonings of. Actress of dreams is that it's a way that we develop social skills. And it's how we how we work out what like how we gain the skills that we need to deal with whatever we're facing. So often when there's when we've got a challenge, we start having dreams that are maybe symbolic, but then we have to use those skills.

[20:46]

And so when you look at.

[20:49]

Like the fairy stories of old. All the creatures like the trolls and the demons and the wicked witches and the big bad wolf were all in the forest because that was the extent of where we knew. Now that we know that it's like the aliens are going to come at us or it's artificial intelligence or something like that. So, yeah, again, above it is enables you to see a picture in Dissociates, it's not so personal and also that it's.

[21:24]

When you're in a situation, it can seem overwhelming because you're in it, but when you put it...

In this episode we discussed Stan Tatkin's book Wired For Dating and how that could help us in dating.

Transcript:

[00:00]

So the topic tonight is we're going to talk about STEM Takins award for dating. And so I can really talks about neuro biology and. Attachment theory, and so really, it's about. His work is really about, he says to when you're in a relationship, is 10 nervous systems interacting with each other, which is the reason why people can end up arguing over silly things, which is really what they're arguing about. So in the breakout rooms we were discussing.

[00:46]

What happened in your relationships or relationships that you think? And just before we we open up the discussion or just a couple of people say, just so everyone knows what's going on. So what we do here is we have a chat here in the main room. And the the chat here is recorded when you go into the room is private and then the recording you can catch. So if you've missed any time, you can listen in. What I'm looking for is an example of maybe and oftentimes we can't really explain why we get into these arguments.

[01:33]

But just looking for some real life examples so that we can we can use them to illustrate the principles and bring some clarity to them. Does anyone have anything that they were talking about in the. In the breakout rooms that. They could share. So if you want to I me to come you. Yes, I was talking with Sasha, so she left.

[02:05]

So she told the people I mean, in arguments in relationship, when the argument happens, the couple argues like a child is.

[02:19]

So the reason is because of lack of communication and I mean too much expectation.

[02:28]

So that's her answer. But my answer was that, I mean, since they love each other and they know each other so much, so they're connected to each other and they also called themselves like baby or things like that. So they're going to love each other. They act like a baby. Similarly, when they come correct, like when they are caught, they also act like baby.

[02:52]

And if they would have argued without relationship, I mean, they're not familiar with each other or maybe they are colleagues, they might not have like argued like childish childishly. And the other reason is that when they argue they know so much detail about themselves, like they used small details, like somebody says that your I mean, snoring is not good enough. I mean, your dress up is not good. And so this kind of small little things are used in arguments to hurt each other.

[03:26]

So this kind of small little things, when I brought in these kind of arguments, these are also components of babies like childish like arguments. So this is my I mean, thought about why they I mean, when they argue they act like childish. Well, they may not be childish. Well, I'm not saying it's not, but it might be that these things have annoyed them for a long time, like snoring, for example, but they just haven't mentioned it before because everything was fine and dandy and, you know, and there was no underlying problem.

[04:00]

So he didn't mention it. They just thought it. And then when something else is annoying them, then I'll bring it up. So it's actually just simmering under the surface.

[04:08]

So while they're arguing about the snoring, but it's not really about snoring.

[04:13]

Well, yeah. Yeah, probably not. No, they've brought it up. Yeah. So there's actually underlying issues on other issues.

[04:21]

You know, I think that's just a lack of being able to communicate around those things. So say like someone's got an issue with snoring or I think most of it is borne out of not expressing what you want clearly, and then not finding a sort of like mutual resolution to it looks like a win win situation or.

[04:44]

I think that's probably where it kind of yeah, and I think also because people aren't really clear on what they want. Only when they feel like they feel like I'm reading them what going on and just react. Yeah. But as you said before, it's sometimes a symptom of something that's an undercurrent. And so it's something that in good times you would probably tolerate, even though it is something that you wouldn't like. I have been through snoring and it drives me crazy because I wake up very irritable because I can't sleep.

[05:31]

And the response that I used to get is, what do you want me to do about it? So which says to me, you don't give you know a lot about me because you know that I need to sleep.

[05:48]

Therefore, that just escalates and escalates when if everything was lovey dovey and also very nice and stuff, you would try to find a way to de-escalate the tension. And, you know, what's that? What's happening. But because there is something else that is driving you bonkers or you're angry about that causes the explosion.

[06:14]

Well, for me, it causes me to just. I lash out with a pillow and a knife. No, I am I don't need any tools. I'm just very, very honest and very caustic. And so my husband will tell you, when you speak sharply, you cut like a knife. I'm sorry. It's nothing to boast about, but it's the truth. That's what he said.

[06:43]

Yeah, but not in that situation. His response basically meant he doesn't care. It's a lack of respect for you. Exactly. He's not doing anything about it. He's not trying to solve the problem.

[06:54]

So why does he feel like that? Because presumably, like five, 10 years earlier, he didn't. So why is he ended up like that?

[07:00]

I suppose it's a power play. It was a power play. Power play, OK? Did you have two bedrooms in the house, you could just or just left yourself maybe, I don't know, just no, no. He lives in Jamaica and I live in the UK.

[07:16]

And you can hear him when he when we are together in London.

[07:24]

But I believe that I mean I mean, living in two separate rooms will not solve the problem.

[07:33]

It will. I mean, make the problem deeper because you. I mean, living together, maybe they could I mean, make some kind of point. But if they're separate and they're lives, I mean, living in two separate, you can make the situation worse. There is quite a number of people that they sleep in separate bedrooms.

[08:04]

Yes, it depends on based on their preferences. But for me, I believe there may be whatever problems is happening. The problem is happening between these two people. So if they're working together, maybe try to find some common ground, then it will escalate the situation by living separately. Maybe that helped them come down at some point, but constantly living separately will make the situation worse.

[08:32]

This is not a start in the end, though, separate. But what I don't know is not necessarily because, like I, I know my girlfriend, we both sleep much better when we're on our own because it is hard, you know, like if you want to sleep early one week later and and just if you've been used to being on your own, you sleep better. So I don't know. But a lot of couples like if someone is snoring all the time and I can't change that.

[09:11]

My solutions, yeah, there are I don't know, but I do know that there was quite a sizeable number of people that do things separately. I suppose I think is unique, I think. I don't think that's necessarily. The end of a relationship or the start of the end of the relationship, it can just be a way then they they work out. As Colum pointed out, though, it's about the response that you get when you mention something to your partner.

[09:47]

It doesn't have to be about snow or it's whether they take it on board and even if they're not very active in terms of changing it. But at least they respond to you as though they're willing to do something about it to to reduce your impact that is happening on you. You know that. Yes. This is you're not happy about this and with good reason they will try to meet you halfway. It might not work because like, for example, snoring is very hard to resolve.

[10:22]

But if you're trying to make an effort. Then I would feel as though, OK, fine, you are trying to help the situation, but if you are not, then it says data for you.

[10:38]

Just as a show of hands, how many people and if you can resolve it, if the reactions down the volunteers, a show of hands, how many people have heard of attachment theory?

[10:52]

OK, and what was a question of it's such a mystery and does anyone know what attachment style they have that without just if you read it?

[11:05]

I think, Michael, I think I go through different attachments. I think sometimes I'm sure sometimes what's the other one, depending on what's the other one where you don't want? Well, for the fourth one's not very common, though, is it?

[11:27]

No, actually, I don't have the percentages and I. Yes. Is that the one are you talking about anchor and Wave and whatever? Yeah, although it's not secure, anxious, anxious, avoidant and ambivalent, fearful. I think I'm very avoidant sometimes, all the times I'm anxious and sometimes and completely secure, OK, depending on on.

[11:57]

Yeah, I mean we go through stages I think.

[12:00]

Yeah. How we feel like if you're with family, well, assuming it's a good family, then you're probably going to feel more secure than if you were in a situation you like your new workplace, you don't really know anyone. You're probably going to be the context is going to determine some of that. So roughly. OK, so we'll get into attachment actually a little bit. But first of all, I just want to give some background for anyone.

[12:31]

Oh, yeah. The other thing was how many people have read the book or listen to the TED talk. So one, two, three. To talk. Yes, there was a TED talk or attachment theory. Now it was where we stand. Stand by. Anyway, I'm going to I'm going to run through that. So I'm just going to meet everyone now. There's no background noise. And then. We'll discuss in a minute. OK, so really.

[13:15]

Being in a relationship can become frightening because suddenly. Your future and your autonomy is caught up with someone else's. And so it means that you've lost what is the feeling of loss that a sense of identity when you're single, you can just make a decision and can do whatever you want to do. And when you're in a couple, you then there's someone you have to check against. And especially if you're raising children, then. It's not just how you parent them mean, it's also how your spouse, partner's parents and often you might have different styles.

[14:05]

And so you have this sort of. You don't have that freedom, so. Really, when we're born, we're born into. Into a context, we're born into a family and this someone who's looking after us. And. That. That introduction to the world. Is what's going to slum everything you see of the world from there on? It doesn't mean that you're condemned to to to that style, but it means that's the style that you that you have.

[14:47]

And different parents obviously vary in how well they are. Able to look after you, how much space, how much stress they have, whether they have postnatal depression, whatever the context of their relationship or and how the living circumstances and all of those. Factors determine how you grow up. So this is so attachment theory really is based in your earliest experiences of the world. So when we're born, we're completely helpless and we're dependent on. Of caregiver, which is usually definitely when attachment theory came out, was mostly the mom, but whoever is mainly looking after the child.

[15:39]

So as a baby, we both completely helpless. We there's nothing that we can do for ourselves and we can't even ask. And so some parents are naturally maternal, paternal, and they'll respond and they'll be able to work out the latest nappy, change the food in comfort. And now so the only way that the baby can ask for help is by crying, so. What attachment theory is really about is how responsive that parent is, determines the trust that the baby has in that person and then that trust in that person shapes how they see the world.

[16:24]

So a person that has a secure, responsive, caring parent looking after it tends to trust other people more. So there's a story of six men and six women come across an 11. And one of them's got its trunk and one of its leg and one of them is a one of them's got its main body and one of them's going to tell and whatever other partners. So then you've got. Like six different people that have six entirely different interpretations of what an elephant is, and they describe it to each other and they they can't like, you know, your life because it's not like that.

[17:18]

So their experience, because they can't see the whole they've only just they can kind of feel around apar. They have different experiences in the same way. We all have different experiences in the way they grow up. And this is attachment theory in terms of how responsive main caregivers. But it's also about a culture. It's also about our family. It's about our religion. And all those factors shape how we first see the world and then everything that we see after that.

[17:52]

Is based on the initial initial view of the world. So. So we're going to look at numbers, about 50 percent of people are securely attached, 20 percent are anxiously attached. Twenty five percent are avoidant and five percent are fearful. And so. So what happens when someone has a really responsive, caring mum or dad? They then feel like they're going to trust them and then they're going to trust other people, so. So when I first did research on how they discovered this was they noticed that children were about to have free would some would really cry when they separated from their mom and some...

Joseph Campbell popularised The Hero's Journey. Here we applied it to the journey of finding lasting love.

Transcript

Right. So I think we're all back shall we put if you want to put in the chat and anyone who wants to share Which films? You can say but not everyone's going to talk. So my ones I really recommend when I just watched earlier, it's called The Lighthouse. It's a new movie psychological Thriller the lighthouse I highly recommend us I recommend to call it the wild. And maybe Battle Royale. This is a Japanese movie. Okay wasn't very James Bond one of them title senior Royale a I'll it's a Japanese movie. It's like the Hunger Games. It's like the original version at Hunger Games. They reckon The Hunger Games copied my oh no. No, sir. So, what was it about those films that you well I'll just talk mainly about the one I just saw today which was called and the lighthouse it was a very like unique for them. There's only two characters in it and it's a psychological trailer and like it's just very very entertaining like Always you never get bored of it like and it's like and it's just shows like the man the camera work is really good. It's Black and Whites to look like an old movie and the story line is just very very good. It's like I recommend looking looking it up anyway and see if you might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's the type of movie that I like and I said what film that came out a few years. Segoe, okay. What was that? It's like a psychological Thriller is well with the real question being a philosophical question, which is what is it mean to be human?  Okay. So is this like machines versus Humans type thing? Sort of but not really but they make a an AI artificial intelligence and they're trying to make it as human as possible. And I so I was saying that the deeper question is not what does it take to make an AI human? But what is it that makes us quintessentially human. So in order to make a AI that successfully passes the Turing test and is taken for human. You have to be able to find out what obviously constitutes fundamentally human said the real. Not about the ARB. It's about our humanity. And what is it that makes us human interesting is essential think when you look at some of the technology that's coming around it's where we're going to sort of merge with review moments where like intelligence is never going to be a competitive advantage in the future because machines are going to be there and implanted in us. So yeah, that's that's an interesting question for I will have to face it started already. Don't be scared. Yeah, think of your Cochlear implants in your bug your your joints and your Pacemaker and your insulin pump and all of that started. It's just that those things you think of them as You don't think of them as things that can be hooked up to become a network of its own as you go along. So the more things are replaced and the more that they are program of programmable. Then you get you're getting closer and closer to that cyborg State. Yeah. Okay, so we got seven as well wasn't was seven like a horror or thriller. Weller psychological Thriller, but serial killer I don't want to give too much away in case somebody wants to actually watch it. But yeah, it was good. We could you find whenever some love. Yeah Netflix list here at night when the lights are off. Yeah, okay. Alright, so we're I don't really know the main characters in this but so we'll get we've tonight we're going to talk about the hero's journey and how that relates to relationships and the reason why I asked about films is because the hero's journey is is a concept that Joseph Campbell popularized and he actually got them the monomyth first came from James Joyce, but Joseph Campbell was this genius who sort of lived life on his own the damn bastard live life on these in his own. Design sort of way he wanted to do a PhD in literature and he'd arranged his Ph.D. And he went traveling and he really found out all it was about it was going to do American Native an apology and he he went travelling he found all this a fury and Celtic mythology and he said like it's expanded. I don't want to do this and they wouldn't they said my my you've agreed this this is has been a good idea and he just said sorry it went and it was in the beginning of depression and 1930s. So he just went to this to you this heart in the middle of the forest and for five years you just live that in his heart really simply just reading all day. And basically he went into to this solitude. It's reading all kinds of Mythology all kinds of books and he emerged five years later and he wrote this He wrote this book the hero and the hero with a thousand faces. And essentially the premise of the of that is that there is a universal structure to all stories and every great mythology and every great story from Rocky from Harry Potter Lord of the Rings to Jesus booger The Iliad and odyssey. See all follow the same structure and when you look at this the structure that he's got it's a brilliant. recognition of the structure that we go through whenever there's any kind of in order to like in order to have the career that we want in order to have a business that we want to have a relationship that we want to do anything that we want of significance. We have to become better than we are we have to develop skills knowledge confidence that we didn't have and the hero's journey is basically the story of that. It's the story of this free phases to it. There's the Comfortable Ordinary World is the separation we go to a new world and then there's the return. And the journey like when you think of a question the question is like the Holy Grail where you go for this object, but what all of those the stories is about is while you're going for that quest for that thing you're changing and it's it's really about The Interchange and not the the outer chain like the outer award. So let's look at the question. So we need If you I don't I remember the holiday in the buses, but I don't know the characters well enough to look at their hero's journey the others the others was a great film. So I really look at the archetype now probably the closest archetype to this is Star Wars and George Lucas had Star Wars for years and you couldn't write it and it was only when he came upon. The hero's journey structure that he just literally followed it out like that. So there's lots of like the Matrix is based on it. What ship down Lion King, all of these kind of films are based on it. So the first step is you have to show the contrast you have to show some on first in that Audrey world. And so first live Sky will clear. This is where he's all on the farm and he wants something more. So it's the safe stable world, but is is wanting something more and this is where a lot of people are at in terms of relationship. It probably comes the more, you know, it might be happy on their own but they just feel that they want something something more and I feel like there's something more out there for them. The next stage is something happens with a great white is called an inciting incident is something that happens that Spurs them like opens this whole new world and so it could be you come across someone really attractive. Someone asks you out it could and for Luke Skywalker was Princess Lea. The message from Princess Leia for Neo in The Matrix. It was when he got this message that follow these watch out for the white rabbit or something like that. So it's the Call to Adventure. But what almost always happens is is scary. And so there's the refusal of the call. So most of the time the hero will refuse and Luke Skywalker refuses the call because his uncle needs him Harry Potter doesn't believe that he you know, it has anything magical about him like the epitome of the refusal of the call is to build. By Baggins in The Hobbit. This is like, oh, I wouldn't want an adventure nasty dirty dangerous things that make you late for dinner. So this is Sometimes people are wanting to go on a dating site page. Sometimes people have been asked out but they feel uncomfortable in the situation or ascared of what that involves. So I think we all refuse the call as well. But the key to the review the key to the refusal of the call is that life is never going to be better. It's like life is going to always become boring constricting and Till you accept that call and so that's what films so that's the first section. That's like the Ordinary World. So I think  We can see it in films. But if we relate that to your own circumstances your own situations things that have happened in the past. When have you been in the Ordinary World what's been the Call to Adventure and power of you refuse then why have you refused it? So I think that would be an interesting point for a chat and in the breakout rooms. So if we go to the breakout rooms for we just have a short chat you think 8 minutes be enough?  okay, so if I set the breakout rooms and we'll be back about eight minutes again when you get the link, you don't have to rush straight back because you'll still have another minute. So is that clear? What what we're talking about? Just gives it again please rub. Okay. So the three stages are the Ordinary World where you are in your own work Ordinary World The Call to Adventure like the inciting incident what has called you to what have you been dissatisfied with in your current state that you would like a relationship? What is the Call to Adventure? What's the incident that made you think like this whole new world could open up to me and what and how have you? used it okay did so I think this is although this is like a script writing has been used as a script writing so that it's a way of interpreting books and films. I think we have our own narrative and we live by narrative and the difference between really struggling and really feeling empowered and grow for an experience is the narrative that we give to it. So I think by Able to apply these narratives. We we can change our experience of what happens. So did anyone have any insights or any stories or experiences that they can relate to? That they would like to share. I think so. I just got some amazing stories, but it's just kind of unable to tell us at the Mormons. She's going to have a busy night typing. I think she is. Yeah, there's a bit of a discussion going on in our group about kind of life being candid that in secret intricate that it's difficult to say, what's what I see you brought it over but it's hard to say what's technically go there. And because of the intricacies of life because of that. There was regret that doesn't really I don't really have much regrets. Obviously. I'd rather have not done certain things or behave in certain ways, but you kind of where you are. Because of what you've done I suppose and that's the thing more of his kind of says something similar in The Matrix about things happened just because they they also know like that countries a phrase which kind of fits into what we were talking about. Yeah. I remember this is a story I used in my bed case. Maybe it's her like a Chinese proverb. And that's it. Yeah, you know it. Yeah, it's so so one day like in ancient China this horse comes in and this man gives her a horse which is like a horse is worth like a house now and everyone to know how lucky you are. You're so lucky. He said maybe and his sons breaking in the horse and the horse froze him off and breaks his Leg, and if I saw what terrible luck your son, how are you going to bring in all the crops and how we've been a farm everything this year? And he said they said, you know what terrible luck and he says maybe and then a couple of months later the Army come around and can script in all the figuring men and he can't go and he's like one of the only ones saved from like a bloody war and it's just like Alan Shepard. Sign what we think is like sometimes you can never tell if it is or isn't it takes a longer time span? In terms of the refusal of the call and the Call to Adventure. Like does that bring any insights on where you may like where your fears might hold you back or where you're feeling of obligation to your current state cyst, like for example, as I'm saying that what comes into my head is the research that on average it takes a couple six years from where decide they're going to leave like a marriage to when they actually leave it and that's there's so many obligations and fears and restrictions. So does that make sense to you that the refusal of the call? It makes sense and we were discussing along similar lines because it's one thing to recognize that you need to change. But then as you mentioned obligations sense of Duty that can hold you back. But even after you have resolved that or those issues there is still yourself. How do you proceed? One it says it's the landscape has changed so they are fares as to how you're going to cope. What how can you navigate this new place? How are you going to be comfortable in it? Are you confident Etc? So there is one your yourself within a relationship or within a system because every marriage or relationship has not just the two people but family members business all of those. Things are intertwined and you have to unravel those to get yourself and not feel guilty about that process. And as you said takes about 6 years because you have to figure out how you're going to get yourself out with I suppose the least amount of bruising to yourself and to others because there's also The the fair that what you do can have serious impact on the others or the significant other in the relationship and how they are going to cope as well. And those things can hold you back. But once you're out of that there is as you say making that step to enter into a new phase of Life the confidence to do that. In a landscape that you probably don't recognize and to figure out how to maneuver the develop that confidence to then try to engage with people who again, it's going to be the same thing. Am I going to have to go through the same set of experiences that I had and how many as I as I called it how many princes am I going to have how many frogs am I going? Case before I find my prints are going to go through all of that that is just time consuming his energy-sapping. It's can't I just find the one right now and we just start you know, and we go through this thing. So it's I think it's effort. It's fear of the unknown and it's having to go but I think a positive note is that we I've gained some experiences that we can draw on even though that relationship that we are leaving or that situation at relieving we have failed their lessons that we have learned that we can bring to bear. And that's interesting because that kind of leads us to the next stage. So it's really there's all these external reasons like you said and really it's about us getting to grips with all of those and the internal fears and being ready and like the details of actually doing it. I just a sort of administration but it's it's becoming instead of facing the fears. And so this is the next state of thats that's like the cut off from the Ordinary World. So now once you've gone past the refusal of the call, the next stage is the stage that takes you into the new world is the meeting of the mentor meeting with the mentor. So this is the idea that you have a plan. You have something you see some way that you can do this and initially it may be that you don't have belief in yourself. But you have belief in something else. So or Luke Skywalker is Obi-Wan Kenobi and knowing the world of the Jedis and having cop having belief in the Jedis for Neo it was Morpheus and you know all that. Yeah, Morpheus and Trinity that they had a plan and they had something going on for think of other films for for Rocky. It was it was finding his trainer Mickey who taking him on so the stage of the mental is Finding some knowledge finding someone or some training that you can believe in until you can believe in yourself. Sorry. Once you have that that sort of pushes you over the edge and give you the confidence to take this new quick New Journey. And so the next part is crossing the threshold increase it crossing the threshold is The stage of leaving the comfort of your own world and finding this strange new world. So in Star Wars, this is when he goes into that bar. It's full of all these strange aliens of it's like this completely different world for a mate for Neo in the matrix. It's going into the joining the crew of The Never member kashiro or whatever it is. And so it is finding this. Only world that you're in and just finding your place now. So in terms of relationships is crossing the threshold could be like date joining the dating site. It could be when you've leave your relationship and you suddenly got this new world open up. Yeah, I think ultimately is I think the refuse of as I said it can it be dangerous that stage. Yes it is because ultimately what what the refusal of this call tells you is that life is always going to be shrinking and I think there's the comfort zone and if you don't Branch past that comfort zone Everything you want is in what I call the Adventure Zone but the adventures that design is scary and if you don't take if you don't make that leap your life is always going to be less than it could it's going to bore you and what's and what anxiety what happens is the less you face anxiety the more it in circles you and shrinks and so there's the more and more scares you so the less needs to happen. Are you to feel anxious?  so Okay, so he's crossing the threshold know once you cross the threshold. You're in this strange new world. And once you're in a Strange New World, you think you find yeah, that's actually says of each of the individual these three things that patient. That's really what what determines how long it takes you to go from the refusal of the call. It's really about getting the confidence together and feeling ready to take that leap. And so yeah, it's going to be different for everyone. So all of this is unique the Is a universal structure but the I mean we can see how many films it's in. I remember years ago. I used to sort of emails and it was like 501 different Heroes Journeys and they broken and 501 films down into the hero's journey structure. So once you're in the new world, it's about tests allies and enemies. So a new world has different challenges for you. It's tests that you're not comfortable with and then it's sorting out who your allies and who your enemies so in Star Wars, you've got the rebels you got Han Solo principally a cube a coronal then and then you've got the Stormtroopers. You've got Darth Vader in Harry Potter. You've got the sliver earrings and Gryffindor is it so it's like you've got allies and enemies. So what did I see in sight you're going to have? People that you may not be attracted to you may not get on but you probably going to end up just chatting to a few people as kind of friends. You're going to have people who are rude people are aggressive and you're going to have tests. You're going to have rejection. You're going to have to deal with people who are rude and you're going to have to just like how do you get someone's attention? How do you deal with people who are persistent but your uninterested so all of these are tests. So the next stage is the approach to the innermost cage in the most cave. And so this is...

In this Meetup we discussed the Enchantment Dating Strategy. As usual we veered through a wide range of topics and brought a range of views and perspectives to the debate.

Transcript

[00:00]

So our topic tonight is the Enchantment Dating Strategy.

[00:04]

What was the discussion like in the breakout rooms?

[00:06]

We came up with some things, we came up with stuff, but I think it was a little bit of a struggle. OK, so what was the general consensus about approaches on dating?

[00:19]

I think they were quite good at pointing out things that didn't work, but I'm not sure we could actually come up with anything great.

[00:26]

OK, OK then. So that might be a good approach.

[00:32]

So what didn't work like? Definitely big challenge that they put people on the spot. So in real life I think it was very well.

[00:44]

I could imagine that being some some awkward situations.

[00:49]

I was coming to the workplace in a toxic male environment from a woman says he was the last piece Sandra was coming from a woman in a toxic male environment like a me.

[01:08]

That's speech. So embarrassing. Publicly embarrassing. Yes, yes, yes.

[01:18]

Point of the question that how you come across it makes a difference to whether you would be a pain in your heart to someone.

[01:26]

Sorry. Can you say it again, Betty? Yeah.

[01:28]

What's the point of the question? Was that how you come across to someone, but also whether you're appealing or not?

[01:38]

Not necessarily the point. The question was what approach is attractive?

[01:42]

Because it may be that someone comes with the perfect approach and yet you still aren't attracted to them and you're not going to get into a relationship with someone you're not interested in. But it's too to learn from good examples and from that. Nothing for me, sorry, the Sheila for me. The environment was important, so for me, you know, it's I wouldn't mind being picked up in a bar in the bar.

[02:23]

Can I just pause you there a moment, Sheila?

[02:25]

I'm just going to mute everyone because you got some background noise and then if you can answer yourself.

[02:37]

Yes, sorry about that. That's OK. So saying for me, being approached in a bar is not my ideal environment to be approached, because I tend to think if you're being approached in a bar, it's just. And I stereotyping here, I know it's like a guy on the make, you know, it's not after a serious or, you know, looking to be in a relationship. He's he's looking for a pick up. So that, for me, is completely off putting.

[03:11]

Sorry, can I come in there a little bit? It's funny you say that because I think the complete opposite.

[03:18]

I'm actually saying to the people of my great courtroom that quite often it's the environment for me as well, the place I don't really appreciate somebody approaching me. I mean, for example, I don't own the street or supermarket or places that I'm perhaps not open to being approached. But I find that if I go to a restaurant or a bar or a pub, then I I'm a bit more open to being approached. Whether that person is doing it, just like you said, someone on the make or just whatever, I try to ascertain that in the conversational in their approach to me and take it from there, really.

[04:02]

So it's it's funny that you say that I just sort of base it on the fact that I don't feel so confident to receive attention in certain places, that I don't feel comfortable in a bar situation.

[04:17]

OK, well, I feel more open because I feel like I wouldn't mind in that sort of environment restaurant. It's not an issue, which is interesting. Sheila, really interesting case for you. So would you be more open to sort of receiving an approach sort of in the supermarket, for example, or on the street?

[04:39]

No, probably not. Again, like you said, I'm guess I'm not expecting it. I guess, you know, if it was, say, at a dinner party, a friend's house or, you know, even in a restaurant. And I think it's probably my own hang up that, you know, I'm I don't really drink drink occasionally. And for me being in a bar, I'm probably there with a friend. But secondly, I guess, is the fact that I don't drink.

[05:03]

I feel as if I don't feel a bit for fraud, impostor being in a bar. So I'm not comfortable in my own skin in that environment anyway.

[05:12]

OK, ok, that's interesting. So from both, they said it is individual and where you feel comfortable, but it's about feeling comfortable. Is where you're going to be more confident with the approach and more receptive?

[05:36]

It is it is absolutely for me the case, I think so I think to be receptive to an approach, I think you have to have. Confidence in you, I think, dare I say, attractiveness in that environment, and although in a bar I may I may have dressed, you know, I feel my self-esteem may be there and my confidence might be there, but just. I still feel this imposter syndrome being in a bar. That's very interesting.

[06:12]

Where their location doesn't bother me. The person bothers me. So I couldn't care less. It could be anywhere and it has been any and everywhere, so, you know, so but it's the person so I zero in on the person.

[06:31]

So is that the person that's attractive or the person that you makes you feel comfortable with the approach?

[06:40]

A little bit of both. Yeah, because if I think if I think you're creepy or just totally off, I just can't I don't like you. No matter how good the introduction or the opening lines or whatever the circumstances are, it's not happening. I'm not going there.

[07:03]

It's the gut feel, I think. Yeah. And I've had and I've had pretty interesting topics and invitations as I told my group, some of them and the person, no, it's not happening.

[07:21]

I don't like you.

[07:23]

It brings to mind two situations, two approaches I've experienced. One was I was in a park in Sydney when I was travelling and I got approached by this guy who there was nobody else in this park or very few people out of nowhere. This guy appeared. And so I started chatting up, OK, this is really creepy. So I got out of that situation pretty sharpish. And then there was another time I was in in a museum in New York.

[07:52]

And it was actually my last day. And I was actually trying to get to this museum and see this exhibit before I had to get to the airport. And I was approached by a guy that worked there. He was like security. And I was like he was actually having a really interesting conversation. But I was, you know, I knew I had to leave within, like the hour because I was literally on the way to the airport. And so, again, it was, again, gut feel, the environment, a gut feel.

[08:23]

One of the things that's kind of picking up, which you find quite interesting, is the discussions about environment and also how the environment is influencing somebody else's or the person who's approaching intense. Because the intent is basically what that patient is wanting by speaking to somebody else, obviously, in this case we would assume or making out that that person is trying to hash it out on a date or whatever it might be. So how do we. How do we actually know what the intent is, because surely the only true person I ever know is the intent behind any particular action is the person themselves.

[09:19]

So are we not being a bit too restrictive and saying, oh, yeah, because it's about it's there because it's in a park if they're shot, because then she could market it. If the judge thought it kind of like, throw that out there just for some opinions. Alan, what do you mean by intent?

[09:38]

Well, the intent behind us, you know, asking about so you get approached. So I can't remember who it was. But somebody mentioned before that they're not comfortable about being poached in a bar or something like that.

[09:58]

It's because you've got photoperiod and. You're you're kind of the assumption behind that is because you were saying that they might just want to have a one night stand with you or whatever it might be. Well. I don't think that we can assume things like that because the. Life is basically show into chaos that we really don't have any control over what goes on at all. We have little control of ourselves, so we have even less control over other people.

[10:34]

And by control, what I mean is by controlling the situation. So we believe in that case that that person is as God and negative intentions. It's not what we want. And therefore we're going to reject it because that's what we we assume. But I don't think we can assume things just because of the environments that we're in. And I think that kind of this and this is just my opinion, I think that kind of blocks the truth, because the only way you're going to find out is to engage in conversation, OK, if that person turns out to be a shlaim or what makes it clear that the the just after the one night stand will.

[11:14]

Fair enough, but I don't think it's right to just dismiss on the basis of environments only. But sometimes you have an interaction with somebody and it's not serious, it's just a hello or there is just some a bit of some kind of an attraction, but it's not going to go anywhere. It's just a bit of flirting. It's hello, you know, whatever. And you move on. I don't think every interaction is necessarily going to turn out to be something.

[11:49]

Serious are, you know, it's going to go any further. It's just another human being trying to connect with another human being. And hi. Hello. And you smile or whatever it is. I remember walking somewhere. I was going to a meeting somewhere in London, and I'm busy walking to get to my meeting. And this gentleman is coming on the pavement and I'm focusing on getting there. And he passed me. And somehow I just thought, what's going on here, because he was looking at me and I turned around and there he was, he stopped, he was looking at me and he was shaking his head and he was just doing this.

[12:35]

And I just looked at him and smiled and said, yeah, OK, good one. And that was it. There was nothing there for him to. He never wanted anything from me. I didn't want anything from him. It was just hello in it, you know, and two people passing by. And a smile. And I think you don't read anything into that, it's just a pleasant day, it's just another human being and you feel that you've connected with somebody in some way.

[13:07]

And I think sometimes if we were too restrictive, we don't even allow ourselves to see to acknowledge another person in a pleasant way, because we are thinking that they want something from us all the time and maybe they don't. It's just. I see you, I like what I see. I think you might be a nice person, so hello. And that's it, you know, so I'm just saying that to say that there are different types of interactions and there are different levels of interactions and most of them are not going to be.

[13:48]

Lead into a relationship of any kind.

[13:51]

But they do enrich us, I think so sometimes we shouldn't just see look at look at another person as a potential date, a potential.

[14:04]

My right, my one and only my. Made to be. I think it's a debate to just no answer to it, and you'll never find there's no right or wrong. I mean, in my experience, you've got guys I was trying to tell the story, but we got switched back into the main room.

[14:23]

What was why suddenly 14 years ago. And he uses that as an excuse to to empower women and chat them up with move on to the next. And he's doing it about five times. Unbelievable. But then there's also women in the group that, you know, the pretty the bad guys, and they spend the night getting drinks bought for them all night and they go from guy to guy, getting a free night all the time, free meal, free drinks and people like us, honest people even in the middle of all those sharks.

[14:59]

And it's hard. It's difficult. And when you've been divorced and you're thrown in the middle of it, it's soul destroying. And when you don't get to the last thing you need is that because he's just you just being taken by shock all the time. And it's awful. And for someone who's got a low confidence anyway, it can it can really it can really knock you down. I don't know anybody else thinks about be creative.

[15:23]

Don't go to a bar, go go to a park, take a picnic lunch and go and sit in the park and chat. Don't go to a bar and spend all your money buying drinks for ladies who are not interested in you. Go for a walk. It's free.

[15:36]

Yeah, yeah. I have a the plane and my wife and I decided that I was going to say why I'm so grateful for the fact that violence is all the rage for the purpose. Stop this...