The Unlearning Curve

22 – Tim Whitaker & TNE – How We Enable Abusers

 This Episode will be released on both The Unlearning Curve and the Desert Sanctuary podcasts. It dives deeper into how we have operated in the past and how people enable the abuser to behave badly (led by Megan South Benninger).

 History

During the 2023 incident with platforming an accused abuser at the Theo bros beer camp, The New Evangelicals and Tim Whitaker were deeply involved in participating and promoting. When abuse survivors asked for an explanation, they were ignored, dismissed, and harassed, including me.

Megan Benninger joined us on the Desert Sanctuary Podcast to discuss the incident, but very few supportive actions were taken by the speakers who were encouraged to speak up. Tim responded with a video, after 5 minutes of research and talking to the accused abuser, that was eventually removed by his board. Here is our podcast episodes if you want that history. I will also include other episodes that followed, with several others.

https://thedesertsanctuary.org/2023/08/24/special-edition-spiritual-abuse-tne-tony-jones-and-the-theo-bros/ 

https://thedesertsanctuary.org/2024/02/01/314-david-hayward-patriarchy-narcissism-and-abuse/ 

https://thedesertsanctuary.org/2023/12/31/301-brad-sargent-becky-garrison-narciccism-and-religious-trauma/

The Current Situation

Last year (2024), there was an incident between Tim Whitaker and a female employee, which was severe enough to warrant an investigation by Grace, an organization suited to helping groups like churches get the facts about issues that arise.

Here are some of the blogs that came out.

The Organization Comes First – Karl Forehand

 TNE Reckoning Announcement – from RV and W1(link to report)

Allegations against Tim Whitaker and The New Evangelicals show how hierarchy transfers to progressive ministries – Rick Pidcock

That time I got an angry call from the subject of an article about anger and abuse - Rick Pidcock

Is Nowhere Safe? 5 Things Whistleblower Helpers Should Do Instead of Repeating Harmful History – Rebecca Hopkins

TNE and Trauma: Not So Fast is Wiser than Let's Move On – Tia Levings

Bodies Behind the Bus Podcast

The Net Grace report was a thorough report. Still, even while the online communities were trying to digest it and report on the situation, Tim Whittaker behaved badly and tried actively to convince people not to make this a big deal. The incident involved rage driving, which traumatized the victim, and Tam posted a video at his workout facility with the song “Student Driver.” Various things led us to believe that he was not serious about changing or the allegations, TNE was partially responsible for enabling this behavior.

 The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

21 – Tim Whitaker & TNE – Still Not Getting It

 This Episode will be released on both The Unlearning Curve and the Desert Sanctuary podcasts. This episode is an introduction to the situation, and the second episode dives deeper into how we have operated in the past and how people enable the abuser to behave badly (led by Megan South Benninger).

 History

During the 2023 incident with platforming an accused abuser at the Theo bros beer camp, The New Evangelicals and Tim Whitaker were deeply involved in participating and promoting. When abuse survivors asked for an explanation, they were ignored, dismissed, and harassed, including me.

Megan Benninger joined us on the Desert Sanctuary Podcast to discuss the incident, but very few supportive actions were taken by the speakers who were encouraged to speak up. Tim responded with a video, after 5 minutes of research and talking to the accused abuser, that was eventually removed by his board. Here is our podcast episodes if you want that history. I will also include other episodes that followed, with several others.

https://thedesertsanctuary.org/2023/08/24/special-edition-spiritual-abuse-tne-tony-jones-and-the-theo-bros/ 

https://thedesertsanctuary.org/2024/02/01/314-david-hayward-patriarchy-narcissism-and-abuse/ 

https://thedesertsanctuary.org/2023/12/31/301-brad-sargent-becky-garrison-narciccism-and-religious-trauma/

The Current Situation

Last year (2024), there was an incident between Tim Whitaker and a female employee, which was severe enough to warrant an investigation by Grace, an organization suited to helping groups like churches get the facts about issues that arise.

Here are some of the blogs that came out.

The Organization Comes First – Karl Forehand

 TNE Reckoning Announcement – from RV and W1(link to report)

Allegations against Tim Whitaker and The New Evangelicals show how hierarchy transfers to progressive ministries – Rick Pidcock

That time I got an angry call from the subject of an article about anger and abuse - Rick Pidcock

Is Nowhere Safe? 5 Things Whistleblower Helpers Should Do Instead of Repeating Harmful History – Rebecca Hopkins

TNE and Trauma: Not So Fast is Wiser than Let's Move On – Tia Levings

Bodies Behind the Bus Podcast

The Net Grace report was a thorough report. Still, even while the online communities were trying to digest it and report on the situation, Tim Whittaker behaved badly and tried actively to convince people not to make this a big deal. The incident involved rage driving, which traumatized the victim, and Tam posted a video at his workout facility with the song “Student Driver.” Various things led us to believe that he was not serious about changing or the allegations, TNE was partially responsible for enabling this behavior.

 The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

# – Title of Episode

Summary

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

YouTube version - https://youtu.be/9FiDrgxlyoY

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

10 - Nominees for Worst Cult-like Organizations 

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

YouTube Version - https://youtu.be/eIsxEMJuT6A 

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

9 - Nominees for Worst Evangelical Leaders

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

YouTube version https://youtu.be/CsGKD4pRUWc

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to convey your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

8 – Good Questions for Deconstruction

Karl and Laura have been discussing good questions for deconstruction on The Desert Sanctuary blog and podcast. For this podcast, we decided to grab a few of these, discuss them, and help you start asking good questions and thinking about some of the most common ones we hear in deconstruction.

Link to the blogs.  https://wordpress.com/posts/thedesertsanctuary.org

Link to podcasts on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@karl4hand42/podcasts

Possible Questions:

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to send your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

7 – Understanding the Brain

 In this episode, we attempt to broaden our knowledge with a basic understanding of the brain. When we understand more of how the brain responds to circumstances in our life and what is really going on behind the scenes, we may be able to address our mental health and understand the way we are a little better.

Resources Mentioned

Mike McHargue – Science Mike – “Your Brain is a Burrito, and Why it Matters” (in his book, “You are a Miracle and a Pain in the Ass” - chapter 2”)

Mike McHargue Play-Doh model: https://youtu.be/Z9iTdbnyPP0

Dan Seigel explanation of the brain  https://youtu.be/f-m2YcdMdFw

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to send your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

6 – Barbie Gets Revenge on Greg Locke

 After some reflection, I want to suggest that it wasn’t God who destroyed the makeshift home of Global Vision or even the County he resides in that continually has to battle the hate preacher because of noise and parking issues. Even though the insurance company (if there is one) would probably attribute the collapse to an “act of God,” I have another suspect in mind.

Most people will remember that last fall, the hate-filled preacher smashed a Barbie House on stage with a Bible taped to a baseball bat. So, it's probably not God that brought the house down on Monday...I think it was Barbie! Barbie Gets Revenge on Greg Locke!

The Unlearning Curve Podcast

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to send your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

5 – Alpha Male Grifters

I was greatly influenced by men like John Eldridge, Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, and the Duck Dynasty characters. I now realize these men are grifters who realize men have something primal in them left over from their evolution. The men who followed these guys are vulnerable and have a root-brain inclination to be alpha males.

The trouble with this line of thinking is that most other animals also feel this need to respond to crisis and to live their lives in this crisis mode of imagining a demon around every corner and a predator just waiting to attack their family. This thinking doesn't consider that the rare occasion that that type of man would be required is rare, and it's most likely another alpha male with low self-esteem like themselves that is threatening them. Since they are mostly Christian, they should remember that Jesus was not an alpha male and used his higher brain to imagine better ways of dealing with the world's dangers by offering an alternative solution.

Like anything, it's about fear and control. These men have yet to realize that we never really control the world, and our fear motivates us, not the wisest part of ourselves. We may have needed that approach when living in caves and dealing directly with wild animals, but not now. The men who peddle fear are usually selling something else, like the $18,000 Alpha Male boot camps that are becoming popular and the NRA narrative, supported by gun manufacturers.

The Podcast 

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

[email protected]

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

* Toxic/Dangerous Organizations

* Our Mental Well-Being

* The Things We Learn on the Journey

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor, podcaster, and blogger for the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to send your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). You can also visit our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.

[email protected] 

Copyright 2025 - Stuart Delony & Karl Forehand

While many of us yearn for truth and understanding, the systems we participate in often prevent us from attaining genuine freedom in our everyday lives. As we move away from organized religion, we begin to recognize patterns. We believe that addressing many of these challenges requires us to examine all aspects of our lives, including:

* Toxic Leaders

Regardless of your belief system, we encourage you to unlearn anything that doesn’t benefit you. This will lead to healing and uncover a new way forward!

JD Forehand is the son of a preacher and an overseas educator. Stuart Delony is a former pastor who currently podcasts and blogs at the Snarky Faith community. Karl Forehand is a former pastor who runs The Desert Sanctuary, a home for spiritual nomads, with his wife, Laura.

Disclaimer: We view ourselves as practitioners on a journey of discovery rather than as experts. While we strive to transparently share our experiences and the lessons we’re unlearning, we will also refer you to professionals when necessary. Trusted guides will arrive when you need them.

Feel free to send your thoughts, concerns, and necessary corrections to Karl ([email protected]) or Stuart ([email protected]). Additionally, you can also see our Facebook page, The Unlearning Curve.