The Uplifters

This Week on The Uplifters

Time is our most precious resource. Most of us feel like we don’t have enough of it, don’t use it to its highest impact, and feel like if we only had more, we could do and be more. 

But, what sets apart those people who seem to have more time than the rest of us? What are they doing (and not doing) that expands their capacity?

Kymme Williams is one of those people. She is the founder of Bushwick Grind Cafe, a massively successful cafe and catering business in Brooklyn, NY. In addition to running a complex and growing business, she simultaneously held a senior leadership role in a large global organization for 8 years.

But, how did she have the time for her 9-5 and her cafe and her family and herself? In one word: Purpose!

She fell in love with the science of coffee. She visited coffee roasters and learned about the economics of coffee and the effect that coffee farming has on the local populations, particularly education, women’s health, and the availability of drinking water. 

She fell in love with the community and the connections she made as she watched people fall in love, find purpose, and build their lives over cups of coffee.

She leveraged the symbiotic relationship between her day job and her side hustle, and let each role strengthen the other.

She partnered with her husband to expand time by each taking ownership of the tasks that leveraged their individual strengths.

Finally, she didn’t let fear or well-meaning business advice keep her from going ahead with her plans.  After all, no business plan in the world would account for Covid.  The most important thing is to have a purpose.

In this episode you’ll learn:

* What it takes to lead with “yes.”

* How to measure success in a way that is authentic to you.

* How to get started even if you don’t feel it’s a perfect time, or you don’t have all of the answers.

Learn more about Bushwick Grind and Kymme Williams here.

Thank you for reading The Uplifters. This post is public so feel free to share it.

Episode Summary

Discovering a New Path (1:00 - 4:00)

* Kymme talks about her journey from a traditional nine-to-five job to pursuing her dreams.

Early Ambitions (4:00 - 5:00)

* Kymme recalls her early job experiences and how she always had a hustler's mindset.

* The discussion touches on the balance between our need for financial stability and pursuing our passion.

Transition to Entrepreneurship (5:00 - 8:00)

* Kymme shares the pivotal moment when she decided to pursue her coffee shop dream alongside her full-time career.

* Aransas reflects on Kymme's journey and the courage it takes to follow one's passion.

Finding Passion in Coffee (8:00 - 10:00)

* Kymme discusses her deep connection to the coffee industry, her visits to coffee producers, and the social impact of coffee farming.

* The conversation explores the significance of supporting coffee communities in black and brown countries.

Embracing the Journey (10:00 - 12:00)

* Kymme talks about her husband and their decision to move to Brooklyn, which led to the birth of Bushwick Grind.

Time as a Currency (12:00 - 14:00)

* The importance of time and how it can be a barrier to pursuing dreams.

* We discuss the mindset of time scarcity and the need to trust in your capacity.

Balancing Multiple Roles (14:00 - 17:00)

* Kymme talks about the symbiotic relationship between her different roles and learning to make the most of her time.

The Fear of Not Having Enough Time (17:00 - 19:00)

* The discussion focuses on how fear often holds people back from pursuing their dreams due to perceived time constraints.

* We encourage listeners to consider what they might regret not doing.

The Art of Adaptation (19:00 - 21:00)

* Kymme shares her experiences during the COVID-19 pandemic, including the challenges and opportunities it presented.

Trust and Truth (21:00 - 24:00)

* Aransas describes Kymme's approach as centered on trust and truth, emphasizing the importance of integrity and belief in oneself.

* Kymme discusses the value of maintaining honesty and integrity in all aspects of life.

Unpredictable Success (24:00 - 27:00)

* Kymme reflects on the unpredictability of success and how she navigated unforeseen challenges like COVID-19.

* Aransas encourages listeners to embrace uncertainty and trust the unfolding journey.

Measuring Success (27:00 - 30:00)

* Kymme shares her view on success and the benchmarks she has yet to reach.

* Aransas challenges the idea of measuring success solely against the original vision.

The Community Fridge (30:00 - 33:00)

* Kymme passionately talks about the community fridge initiative and the impact it has had on her community.

Self-Nourishment (33:00 - 35:00)

* Kymme reveals her devotion to her faith and prayer as a means of self-nourishment.

Imagine that each of us is wearing glasses with differently tinted lenses. The color of your lens represents your background, culture, and beliefs, and influences how you see and interpret the world. Through your green-tinted lens, it might feel almost impossible to imagine my fuchsia-tinted world.

So it was when Kym Dakin, author of Head, Heart, and Hands Listening in Coach Practice was hired by The Environmental Protection Agency to help their field operators, who were focused on environmental impacts and data, communicate with farmers and landowners who saw the land through completely different lenses. 

While each of us sees the world differently, we also hear others differently. In this episode, you’ll learn about three types of listening: Head, Heart, and Hand Listening, and how understanding these different listening styles can help you communicate more effectively.

Head Listeners hear data, Heart Listeners hear feelings underneath words, and Hand Listeners listen to translate words into actions.

In this episode you’ll learn:

• [00:15:00] How to assess your personal listening style.

• [00:28:00] The role of assumptions and personal stories in shaping our listening styles.

• [00:32:00] Questions you can ask to improve the impact of your listening.

Kym was nominated for the Uplifters by Julie Hughes.

Kymberly Dakin-Neal is a mindset coach specializing in effective communication and professional presence for over a decade. She works successfully with newly promoted employees, women running for office, and entrepreneurs pitching new products. Kym helps train medical professionals in more productive listening and patient communication via the Standardized Patient program at Tufts and Kaiser Permanente. Kym has also developed and recently sold a bookmarking app called Nugget to eliminate the need to take notes in online meetings. She is a mindset coach with Positive Intelligence and her book “Head, Heart, and Hands Listening in Coach Practice” has been released this year by Routledge Publishers. Learn more about Kym: LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and check out her wonderful book: Head, Heart, and Hands Listening in Coach Practice by Kimberly Dakin-Neal

**Segment 1: Exploring Kym's Journey into Listening**

- Kym shares her experience of working with field operators in the Department of Environmental Protection.

- Field operators' frustration in communicating with landowners violating environmental statutes.

- The realization that effective communication required a shift in listening styles.

- Introduction to three modalities of listening: head, heart, and hands listening.

- The story of Kym's experience with her teenage daughter, and the challenges of different listening styles within the family.

- How personal experiences and professional work led Kym to explore and refine her own listening skills.

**Segment 2: Understanding Heart Listening**

- Aransas and Kym discuss heart listening as a focus on emotions, body language, and the truth beneath words.

- Kym's story of her near-collision on the highway and Aransas' analysis of...

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This Week on The Uplifters

Imagine that each of us is wearing glasses with differently tinted lenses. The color of your lens represents your background, culture, and beliefs, and influences how you see and interpret the world. Through your green-tinted lens, it might feel almost impossible to imagine my fuchsia-tinted world.

So it was when Kym Dakin, author of Head, Heart, and Hands Listening in Coach Practice was hired by The Environmental Protection Agency to help their field operators, who were focused on environmental impacts and data, communicate with farmers and landowners who saw the land through completely different lenses. 

While each of us sees the world differently, we also hear others differently. In this episode, you’ll learn about three types of listening: Head, Heart, and Hand Listening, and how understanding these different listening styles can help you communicate more effectively.

Head Listeners hear data, Heart Listeners hear feelings underneath words, and Hand Listeners listen to translate words into actions.

In this episode you’ll learn:

* [00:15:00] How to assess your personal listening style.

* [00:28:00] The role of assumptions and personal stories in shaping our listening styles.

* [00:32:00] Questions you can ask to improve the impact of your listening.

Kym was nominated for the Uplifters by Julie B. Hughes .

Thank you for reading The Uplifters. This post is public so please share it.

About Kym:

Kymberly Dakin-Neal is a mindset coach specializing in effective communication and professional presence for over a decade. She works successfully with newly promoted employees, women running for office, and entrepreneurs pitching new products. Kym helps train medical professionals in more productive listening and patient communication via the Standardized Patient program at Tufts and Kaiser Permanente. Kym has also developed and recently sold a bookmarking app called Nugget to eliminate the need to take notes in online meetings. She is a mindset coach with Positive Intelligence and her book “Head, Heart, and Hands Listening in Coach Practice” has been released this year by Routledge Publishers. Learn more about Kym: LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and check out her wonderful book: Head, Heart, and Hands Listening in Coach Practice by Kimberly Dakin-Neal.

Episode Summary

**Segment 1: Exploring Kym's Journey into Listening**

- Kym shares her experience of working with field operators in the Department of Environmental Protection.

- Field operators' frustration in communicating with landowners violating environmental statutes.

- The realization that effective communication required a shift in listening styles.

- Introduction to three modalities of listening: head, heart, and hands listening.

- The story of Kym's experience with her teenage daughter, and the challenges of different listening styles within the family.

- How personal experiences and professional work led Kym to explore and refine her own listening skills.

**Segment 2: Understanding Heart Listening**

- Aransas and Kym discuss heart listening as a focus on emotions, body language, and the truth beneath words.

- Kym's story of her near-collision on the highway and Aransas' analysis of her heart-centered listening during the incident.

- The role of gratitude and curiosity in heart listening.

- The idea that individuals with strong heart listening tend to notice emotional cues and experiences over facts and details.

- The importance of understanding and embracing different listening styles.

**Segment 3: Exploring Hand Listening**

- Aransas and Kym define hand listening as seeking solutions and taking action.

- The misconception of hand listening as giving advice, and the importance of asking questions instead.

- The story of Kym's husband's ability to provide support and hand listening during their daughter's challenging times.

- Kym's emphasis on building alliances and finding common goals as a part of hand listening.

- The need for intentionality in conversations and recognizing biases to improve listening.

**Segment 4: Identifying and Improving Your Listening Style**

- Aransas and Kym discuss how individuals can assess their own listening styles.

- Kym suggests an assessment exercise to help identify your predominant listening style.

- The importance of mirroring, reflecting, and asking open-ended questions to enhance active listening.

- The power of curiosity and asking "What's behind that for you?" to understand others' perspectives.

- The role of assumptions and personal stories in shaping our listening styles.

**Segment 5: The Impact of Heart Listening in Various Professions**

- Aransas and Kym discuss how heart listening can benefit different professions.

- Imagining the impact if doctors, lawyers, construction workers, and real estate agents embraced heart listening.

- The significance of empathy, curiosity, and understanding in building connections and resolving conflicts.

- The need for more heart listening in a world filled with noise and lack of genuine communication.

**Segment 6: Self-Care Through Heart Listening**

- The importance of self-care for uplifters and caregivers.

- Kym's self-care routine: taking three deep breaths, creating space, and practicing curiosity.

- How self-care helps in regulating emotional responses and making more informed decisions.

- The role of self-empathy and self-compassion in self-care.

Messy Transcript

Aransas: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Uplifters Podcast. I'm your host, Aransas Savas, and if you've been here before, you know that we talk to Uplifters, the women who are focused on making their corner of the world a little bit better and leaving a positive impact. And today we are joined by Kym Dakin, and Kym was nominated by Julie Hughes, who you met on one of our earlier episodes.

Kym is a mindset coach and she's also the author of Head, Heart, and Hands Listening in Coach Practice. She has so much wisdom to impart but one of the things she said that I found most. Energizing was that by listening with empathy, curiosity, creativity, and navigation, we can change our [00:01:00] lives, our community, and our world.

So Kym, thank you for joining us today.

Kym: Thank you for that lovely introduction. I hope I can live up to it.

Aransas: So Kym, tell me how you became focused on listening and connecting with our inner sages. 

Kym: I'll start with why I became fascinated with listening.

I was hired to do a series of communication trainings for the Department of Environmental Protection and in my state of Maine here, uh, We have what's known as field operators [00:02:00] that would go into rural places, uh, coastal places, and engage with landowners who were planning to do something or had already done something that was in violation of some environmental statute.

So you can imagine the tenor of these conversations. Some of them included large dogs, some of them included firearms. Um, they were not friendly. And these field operators are scientists. They are data geeks. They are committed to keeping our environment as pristine as possible so that we can pass down land to the next generation.

And the one after that. But I realized in talking to them that what they were listening for in these conversations were opportunities to share [00:03:00] their bulk of knowledge. But how well does more facts and figures and data change people's minds? They were finding out not so much, and that was the source of their frustration.

So I realized that the mission wasn't about getting these individuals to communicate better. It was about getting the field operators to listen in an entirely different way for entirely different information. And I started to get curious because. The same way we have communication styles and learning styles.

Maybe we also have listening styles, maybe depending on our profession, our natural habits, our biases, the way we were raised. [00:04:00] Maybe we are really. Set up to listen for only certain kinds of information and let the others wash by. I mean, when you think about it, we are a culture that's saturated in information.

So how do we tease out the relevant parts? So I started getting curious about my own listening, and during this time, uh, my teenage daughter, Skyler, was going through a really hard. Adolescent, sort of the classic sucky adolescents. Um, so that meant that night after night, we'd be sitting out on the back deck, holding her hand, blowing her nose, wiping the tears night after night after night.

Now, prior to this, I was starting to play with three modalities of listening, head [00:05:00] listening, heart listening. The field operators were largely head listeners, right? They're looking for data, what's proven, what's already known, what's been certified, and known to be a fact from the past.

Heart. Listeners are looking for the truth. Underneath the words, underneath the content facial expression, body language, vocal tone. Right, those sorts of signals. Some people are expert at tuning into that, so they could almost, almost divorce their attention from the content to tune into the the truth that's being communicated physically.

hand listening is largely about taking those two dimensions and taking the best parts of both. Putting them into action to solve problems. So hand listeners [00:06:00] are looking for problems to solve. Their motivating question is, what can we do about it? So after weeks of sitting on the deck with my teenage daughter, I had run out of heart listening capacity and I was into hand listening.

Yeah, this sucks. What can we do about it? Whereupon she would just, she would look at me and go, Mom, I just need you to listen. Right? I was like, well, I have been for about three weeks and I'm, this is sounding like a broken record to me. Let's do something different. So both of those situations got me curious about my own listening, what I was missing in listening, why that was happening.

And how I could tweak it and intentionally build my listening skill in the channels where I am not [00:07:00] so proficient. Uh, at the same time, my husband, who's a pretty good head listener, he also could sit there night after night, hand her the tissue box and just say, yeah, that sucks, right? I'm going, wow. You've got far more capacity than I do in this juncture.

So what is that about? So those were the questions that sort of fueled the model for me. Aransas: It's so exciting, and I suspect most coaches, at least skilled, impactful coaches specialize in heart. 

Kym: Oh, I, yes, I would think as well. 

Aransas: I've always called it holographic listening, and so it's this sense of people's energy when they say something or how their body shifts or how [00:08:00] their voice shifts or certainly energetic words always draw me when somebody says disgusting.

I'm like, Hmm. Right. What's under there? Right. And so it really is listening with an abundance of curiosity and, and I think what you're saying is there's also a really important place to, well, this is what happened in the past, and because it helps us understand what's influencing this heart 

Kym: response.

Yeah. 

Aransas: Then with the, the hand listening. The thing I wanna distinguish here because I'm, I, I, I, I feel like I am on a mission to remind all of us as uplifters and helpers and caregivers that nobody likes advice and that we. We have this really beautiful, loving urge to fix, right? And it's known as the writing [00:09:00] reflex.

And, and we, we wanna help. And so I think that hand listening could be misinterpreted as let's get in there and fix you. And I don't think that's what you're saying at all. So I wanna make that distinction that we're not saying listen to fix, but listen to. Unlock activation within, within, within the 

Kym: speaker.

Exactly. With them to Exactly into, and that their answers, that was, you know, that, that was a lesson that I had to learn, honestly, because I'm, I'm, 

Aransas: I think most coaches do. We like, we like to be helpful. 

Kym: Do here exactly what you should do. It's like, oh, no, 

Aransas: no. And I do, I have this benefit of being. At a distance to see that.

But you are 

Kym: the only one in the point is to elicit the capacity in the client to take action, [00:10:00] to activate their own hands listening, right? To go forward that way. And that's a lesson I continue to learn. There you go. I'm always making myself Take a deep breath, sit back and ask a question. Ask a question.

Instead of giving advice, advice, that's the way I'm wired, and that's a tussle for me. But I am getting better. if I'm hearing you correctly, the work that you've done is really to aim to help people understand where they have a listening imbalance.

And to achieve a more holistic listening style 

Kym: and to understand [00:13:00] going into a conversation, what your intention is, what you are trying to build, what you are trying to cause in the person you're speaking to. If I have a conversation with a client, it's going to be different than a conversation I have with say, a collaborator.

There's going to be a different amount of intentionality. And so if I know that going in, I know both what my pitfalls are and what kind of listening I need to strengthen in order to have the best conversation I can have. Um, I also have to go in knowing what my biases are, Aransas: And how do people get a sense of what their listening style is like for other people? 

Kym: I think there's a, well, there's a, an interesting assessment in the book that I take people through. And [00:15:00] there's also one on my website, uh, Kym Dakin, k y m d a k i n.com.

Um, I tell you a true story that happened to me, and I stop it at certain junctures and you can list the things that you've retained and what you retain is a clue to your listening style. Can we, can we try 

Aransas: it right 

Kym: sure. if you're listening and you'd like to go through this, I invite you and I invite you as well, Aransas to uh, have a way to note down what strikes you when I'm telling you this story and what you retain.

All right. This is a true story. This happened to me in March of 2016. It was around 1230 in the afternoon. The weather was clear and sunny and even a little warm. And for those of you who have spent time in Maine in March, you know that a day like this is heaven because it's very rare.

It's mud season in March, in May. Well, I was running late that afternoon to an appointment. Which is not unusual, but not so late to where I'm going to push 80 miles per hour in the southbound interstate. However, the guy in front of me is doing 60 miles per hour and I need to get to where I'm going before next Tuesday, so I go to pass him.

Now I am listening to N B R. I'm drinking my coffee and my to-go mug. I signal I pull over into the passing lane and I've just passed the car to my right. [00:18:00] When I become aware that I am seeing a silver s u v barreling down the highway in my lane coming directly at me, I would judge his distance at maybe 100 yards.

So for only a split second, I cannot believe what I'm seeing. But I immediately dive into the right lane and he passes me by what feels like a few feet, but was probably more the like a few yards. I am shocked. I am angry at this near [00:19:00] collision and I am grateful that I had time to get out of the way, but by now, I am tempted to pull over into the breakdown lane to stop shaking, but I'm going over 75 miles per hour and I'm still late, so I keep going though I have slowed down considerably.

I noticed two things in my lifesaving maneuver. I do not spill one drop of coffee,

and there are now 1, 2, 3, 4 cop cars passing me in the northbound lane. In an attempt to follow the person in the S U V who must of course be a criminal or a terrorist, a bank robber, a domestic abuser. that night on the news. There was a very brief mention of an elderly man who got confused when he entered 95 using the off ramp. Instead of pulling over, he panicked and floored it into oncoming traffic. The police finally stopped him, but not until he had gone almost three miles.

There were no injuries or casualties. We were all very lucky. The traffic was relatively light at that time of day. I was very grateful for having had enough time to avoid disaster, but it bothered me that I had jumped to the conclusion that this poor, confused old guy [00:21:00] had been a criminal of some sort.

It also bothered me that I hadn't seen the SS U V sooner than I had. Was I just zoning out in the passing lane? Well, later that week, driving down that same stretch of highway, I realized that there are gradual turns and rises in the road. That pretty much obliterate visibility at certain sections, including the section.

A confused old man nearly rammed into me to this day. I think twice about passing a vehicle if there are no other cars ahead of me in the passing lane and I can't see more than a half mile ahead. What an incredible [00:22:00] story. Yeah. Still makes me shake. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. All right. So what did you come up? you really painted a beautiful picture of this very special day and. This, this magical moment and how quickly that changed into something really intense and terrifying.

Um, and I was really struck by the way you tuned into gratitude, alongside the shock and the anger, and yet transitioned that immediately into your focus and your purpose. Mm-hmm. To keep going. And then as you guided us back through sort of the postscript here, um, that moment that you saw the police that [00:23:00] I, I did pick up immediately on those assumptions about who this man was.

so that it was really powerful that you too identified that and, and got curious about what was underneath your, your conclusion there that, that perhaps this man might be somebody different than than you thought. again, you mentioned gratitude, so there's a real theme of feeling. Overwhelmed or worried, and then identifying gratitude.

So I suspect that is a, a honed strength within you. and then sort of the final section for me, I, I, the thing I thought was most interesting is that you noticed some self blame there and, um, really looking for your own accountability in this situation. And then you went to grab more data. And [00:24:00] you got curious about what was true for you.

And in doing so, you identified not just opportunities to, keep in perspective your own response to things, but your future choices and how you might later. Uh, adjust your approach to driving particularly on these stretch of roads based on 

Kym: this experience. That was beautiful. Thank you. And it was an amazing story Well, you could see why the details matter when head listeners listen to this. They are aware of the numbers, they are aware of how fast I was going, how much distance between me and, and the guy who's coming in the S U [00:25:00] v. it's also interesting to me that certain people have said, I thought the guy was coming behind you when I tried really hard to be very clear that he's coming at me.

That is interesting data too, right? The pictures that are formed in people's minds, that's kind of an aside, but all, most the, the, the majority of the information that you just gave back to me indicates to my ear that you are a very strong heart listener. You were giving me, even when you described, you went back for more data, you went right into.

Curiosity, you went into gratitude. Um, it, it, and it was beautiful. You, you notice how often I picked up on gratitude, the way I painted the, the platform of the story [00:26:00] where we start, right? And then the s u v is the tilt, right? We start with normal, everything's hunky dory and then s u v. But there was also that piece in the.

At the end where you noticed I went back to take care of myself and adjust the way I drive in the future, that is a piece of hands listening. We all, we, we have all three of these things going at once, but for some of us, most of us, two of these channels are stronger than one of them, if that makes sense.

Mm-hmm. 

Aransas: Mm-hmm. And, and I, I feel that so deeply that I, I don't recall details and facts and my mother does, like [00:27:00] she is Jeopardy queen, and I just sit there with my mouth on the floor. 

Kym: Uh, I addicted to.

Aransas: It's amazing and I'm in awe of those people, but that is not how my brain works. And I could tell you it was silver. I could tell you it was close. I could tell you yes, it was fast. And I think you said those details, but they really, they not only were they not the focus for me, but I felt like they would be a distraction from really hearing you.

Kym: There you go. And that is heart listening. That's heart listening in a bucket. Yeah. And what you also, uh, mentioned, you know, your mother's jeopardy Queen, people who can retain and then bring out facts when needed. They're astounding to me. I, I'm just in awe. Amazing. And I so wish I had that capacity, particularly when I'm, Having an argument with my [00:28:00] husband because he's got all these facts that he could throw in,Aransas: I think too, something that that comes up a lot in my work is I think a lot of women have an I'm not smart enough gremlin, and I think a lot of it is driven by greater heart listening than head listening. And I think part of what I really love about this model that you've created is it reinforces the power of different types of listening, and it does not make us any less smart or 

Kym: valuable.

No, and that was my mission. Because the same way, you know, we have. Learning styles and communication styles. We also [00:29:00] have listening and retention styles. You know, what sticks with you about my story is the emotional journey that I went on that you experienced vicariously and you know how fast I was going.

What color? The s u v, it's, it's a detail and it's like, you know, these are not important. What's important is the journey. And the learning That's what's important. And when you think about it,

The way that our world is wired, we're all screaming at each other. Nobody's listening to each other. Trust is breaking down. Relationships are fraying. I. What our world desperately needs is more heart listening, and so [00:30:00] let's claim it. Let's use it, right? Let's get into the world and dig in and build those trusting relationships across difference.

Aransas: What would be different if doctors were heart listeners? If lawyers were heart listeners, if construction workers and real estate agents were heart listeners, 

Kym: what I had to teach those field operators to listen for with those landowners instead of just junctures where they could spit out more facts.

What is this person trying to build? What's the dream underneath the action? How can you position yourself as an ally in building that dream? If he wants to pave over the wetlands, what is it he really wants to do? He wants to build a playground for [00:31:00] his grandkids, so his kids will come and visit him more often.

What can you do to get behind that dream? Once you find out what that dream is, then you can build an alliance with that person, the big dog. Yes, 

Aransas: thats right. Instead of being in conflict or in 

Kym: collaboration, but you have to listen for different information.

You have to find a way to tease that out. That seems to be a capacity that we seem to have lost. I did some research on a lot of different foundations and organizations that are building amazing ways for people to connect across difference, [00:32:00] uh, restorative justice.

braver angels and, there's a coffee house effort to try to get people from different places in the political spectrum to share how they feel and what their stories are that dictate their political opinions. We have to find a way to have these conversations in this country with respect.

Yeah. before we can knit ourselves back together as a nation. we will get those links from you, Kym, and be sure to share those So as you're listeningyou can find those links in the show notes.

And, and Kym, for folks who want to get better at heart listening, what are some of the questions they might lead with to help them establish that intention? Well, 

Kym: I'll give you an example. A client that I'm working with, uh, is a landscape architect and her company has put together a proposal that has to get passed, uh, for one of the townships here in southern Maine.

She's facing a lot of nimbyism, not in my backyard,, pushback. From Citizens and I, I asked her to have a one-on-one conversation with the head NIMBY, [00:34:00] just to find out certain things like what is most important to you, who do you most want to take care of? What do you feel you most need to protect?

What is most valuable to you? What is a total non-negotiable? and to really listen what is the story behind your statement, right? And to really listen and pay attention, write things down, reflect back.the principles of active listening have been with us for a while. So we mirror physically facially, maybe vocal tone.

We reflect back what we're hearing, [00:35:00] but after a while I start to feel like, um, Instead of active listening, people are acting like they're listening Aransas: That's such a good quote. Instead of active listening, we're listening, acting like they're listening.

Kym: We've heard the term get curious, not furious. If you can manage to ask a why question or a how question or a, what's behind that for you, question, you 

Aransas: can. Yeah, I think that what's behind is really important. I was thinking a lot about assumptions as you were talking in [00:36:00] this. There is, there is something for these people who are saying, not in my backyard.

There is something they have seen that makes them believe this will have negative consequences. So what is that? And I do that with clients all the time. I'm like, Who, whose voice are you hearing right now? That's right. What story is this reminding you of? And I think once we get that piece of information, we start to understand in a very different way what, what they're envisioning.

Because again, you painted a picture for me in your story and we paint those pictures all day in our own minds. Based on our lived experience. Aransas: So as we begin to wrap up here, Kym, one of the things that I think is most important for us to talk about in every single episode is how Uplifters care for themselves while caring for everyone else. Yeah. So what does that look like for you? How do you sustain your good work in the world?

It's 

Kym: pretty simple. It's hard for me sometimes to remember that when I'm faced with stress of any kind, self-generated, or from outside myself, if I can first take [00:39:00] at least three deep breaths, create space, for myself immediately, that will calm me down. That will activate calmer responses. once I do that, I can start to get curious and curious. Gives me a little distance from my emotional response, which may be panic. It could be anger, it could be confusion. I can get curious. Finally, and this is the foundation of heart listening I can have empathy for myself if, if my [00:40:00] panic response is because I've made a mistake, I can know that I'm still a good person. I just made a mistake. I can probably find a way to fix it. And of course empathy for whoever else is involved in whatever stressful situation is happening right now. it's breathing and curiosity.

if I. Don't moderate myself and modulate that impulse. I can get myself into trouble and at, at and at best, I'm stuck on the surface of my life, if that makes sense. I'm on the hamster wheel going really, really, really fast, but I'm not offering myself the opportunity to go deeper into my own experience.[00:41:00] 

And that's where curiosity happens. That's where empathy happens, and that's where. Better informed actions take 

Aransas: place. What an amazing answer, Kym. Thank you for that. So for all of you listening, you uplifters out there taking care of everyone and everything. Perhaps this conversation is a little reminder to check in on our listening and to consider maybe.

Where we are listening with less than our whole hearts and our hands. Um, because no matter how much we, we practice that there will be scenarios and there will be moments where we cannot fully tune in and be present. And often times I think that happens with the people we care about the most. [00:42:00] So, As we round down this episode, perhaps you can carve out five minutes for yourself to take three deep cleansing breaths

and to get curious about where you might have the capacity to listen a little bit more. Deeply

to hear a bit more.

"Everybody says you gotta fill up your cup so that you can pour into others. I decided this year I'm gonna fill the cup, I'm gonna drink from it, and then whatever spills over is what I will give to others. Instead of just giving to everyone else and saving the leftovers for me, this time I'm taking the cup for myself. I still wanna give, but I get to go first this time."

When Tamecka Murray was 15 years old she had her first child. She has been taking care of other people every minute since.  When her youngest child turned 21 and the pandemic hit, she realized that she needed to know what it felt like to just take care of herself.  So, she left a happy home and loving relationship with her fiance and got her own apartment.  

From the moment she decided to leave, she made every decision with careful attention to her needs. She improved her credit, to give herself the financial freedom she needed first. She thought about what she’d do if she were free to live every day exactly as she wanted, and chose a home that was ideally suited to support her vision. She poured love into her body, mind, and spirit, just like she had for everyone else. 

"I walked in here with absolutely nothing. It was like, okay, I'm gonna be eating Oodles of noodles for a year. Almost three years later, this was one of the best gifts that I have given myself as an adult, I wouldn't change anything about it. Even the moments of being scared. But I allowed myself to feel each emotion. I processed the emotion when it came up, It was just me deciding to pour into myself because it was a desire that I had to just take care of Tamecka, not Tamecka and her three children, not Tamecka and her partner. It was a decision about Tamecka and Tamecka alone."

Fueled by her newfound energy and the loss of a dear friend, Tamecka has started an events company called I am My Sista that brings women and girls together for transformative experiences.

In this episode you’ll learn:

• [00:9:00] How to be your best companion.

• [00:10:00] How to find energy and motivation by celebrating life’s little wins and milestones - and how your words impact your perception of success.

• [00:22:00] How to fill up your cup so you can pour into others.

• [00:30:00] How to be a truly accepting friend.

Learn more about Tamecka on Instagram at IAmMySista_llc. 

Subscribe to our show at www.theuplifterspodcast.com for lots of free resources, newsletters, and more, for and by Uplifters.

This Week on The Uplifters

“Everybody says you gotta fill up your cup so that you can pour into others. I decided this year I'm gonna fill the cup, I'm gonna drink from it, and then whatever spills over is what I will give to others. Instead of just giving to everyone else and saving the leftovers for me, this time I'm taking the cup for myself. I still wanna give, but I get to go first this time.”

When Tamecka Murray was 15 years old she had her first child. She has been taking care of other people every minute since.  When her youngest child turned 21 and the pandemic hit, she realized that she needed to know what it felt like to just take care of herself.  So, she left a happy home and loving relationship with her fiance and got her own apartment.  

From the moment she decided to leave, she made every decision with careful attention to her needs. She improved her credit, to give herself the financial freedom she needed first. She thought about what she’d do if she were free to live every day exactly as she wanted, and chose a home that was ideally suited to support her vision. She poured love into her body, mind, and spirit, just like she had for everyone else. 

“I walked in here with absolutely nothing. It was like, okay, I'm gonna be eating Oodles of noodles for a year. Almost three years later, this was one of the best gifts that I have given myself as an adult, I wouldn't change anything about it. Even the moments of being scared. But I allowed myself to feel each emotion. I processed the emotion when it came up, It was just me deciding to pour into myself because it was a desire that I had to just take care of Tamecka, not Tamecka and her three children, not Tamecka and her partner. It was a decision about Tamecka and Tamecka alone.”

Fueled by her newfound energy and the loss of a dear friend, Tamecka has started an events company called I am My Sista that brings women and girls together for transformative experiences.

In this episode you’ll learn:

* [00:9:00] How to be your best companion.

* [00:10:00] How to find energy and motivation by celebrating life’s little wins and milestones - and how your words impact your perception of success.

* [00:22:00] How to fill up your cup so you can pour into others.

* [00:30:00] How to be a truly accepting friend.

Learn more about Tamecka on Instagram at IAmMySista_llc. 

Messy Transcript

Aransas: Welcome to the Uplifters Podcast. I'm your host, Aransas Sava, and today I'm joined by my friend Tamecka Murray. Tamecka [00:01:00] is the founder of I Am my sister. She also happens to be, I. One of my friendship role models. Watching the way she shows up and shows love for those in her circle inspires me constantly.

Tamecka, I'm so grateful that you joined me here. 

Temecka: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the invite. I'm excited to be here. You have been my inspiration, so for us to be inspiring each other it just means so much.

Aransas: I've gotten to watch the impact you've had on a lot of rooms, and I don't know how much you sense this because it's your life and your perspective, and it can be difficult to see the impact we make, but without even speaking, I have watched you bring [00:02:00] sunlight into gray rooms and there is just something about your pure Tamecka-ness that makes everything feel lighter and brighter. I know you've had a wild last three years. When did, and I'm gonna label this, the grand evolution, but what do you call it and when did it begin? 

Temecka: It started when the pandemic started.

Mm-hmm. It was when the world shut down and I was always into like just getting to know me. It just, I guess a brief history is I was, I was a teen mom, so I was a mom at 15. So my, I grew up raising my kids like, so they labeled it as a child, having a child. [00:03:00] So, and when the pandemic hit my son, he was turning 21.

So it was like, yes, I can finally like, just take care of me. Right. That doesn't mean that my kids go away, but it just means that now they're adults and now I get to finally give myself the attention that I needed. 

Aransas: Yeah. And that that was such a solitary focus for you for so many years. When you started to look at your life, what did you see?

Temecka: Now I see it's freedom, right? It's freedom to just. I get to just be, I get to just show up and the only person at this point of my life that I have to take care of and make sure is okay is me. Like I check for my children and everything. But for the first time it [00:04:00] was, how does Tamecka feel? I didn't have to go through a list of people in order to get to Tamecka.

Mm-hmm. So that's what actually, and you know, and I, and making a decision at the end of 2020 to move into my own apartment. It was scary, but it was also big because, and you'd been 

Aransas: living with a 

Temecka: partner, right? I was living with my fiance and I'm like, I need my, I need my own space. Not that because there was something wrong with us, but it was because at that moment, like I've always wanted to know what it felt like to just take care of me.

While I was living with him, he's an awesome provider. He, you know, he made sure everything was taken care of, but I'm like, what would it look like if I just took care of me and didn't have to lean on a comfort zone because I felt like he was the [00:05:00] security blanket. But for the first time, I just wanted to just take care of me.

And so I applied for the apartment that I'm in now. And I believe in the law of attraction, so I put it out there that this is what I wanted and I wanted to get my own apartment, and within two weeks I was getting my keys and got approved for the apartment. So, you know, whereas for him, he kind of looked at it like, I probably was planning it forever because who really gets an apartment within two weeks.

But one of the other ways that I was taking care of myself is I was also making sure like my credit was good, right? Like, so everything was pretty much aligned in me taking care of myself where, you know, Prior to my credit was not something that I wanted to be proud of, but I did all of the work that I needed to do to make sure, like [00:06:00] when I was ready and I needed to do something, that my credit was gonna be fine.

So that was kind of like my first step of caring for myself while I was actually living with him. But I knew that there was gonna be a bigger picture in the care for myself. And it just aligned it where, because I did all of the work that I needed to do on fixing my credit, it allowed me the opportunity to be able to come apply for an apartment and not have to just take any apartment, but be intentional about where I wanted to live.

And so I live in between two parks, so I knew that this is where I wanted to live. So I'm like, okay. And like I said, and the next day she called me and she was like, oh, you got approved. So on New Year's day of 2021, I actually brought the new year in in my apartment and I was intentional. Also, that day is [00:07:00] I wanted to bring the I, I usually bring the new year in with family.

And that's my mom's birthday, Maisy rest in peace. So it was a tradition that we always celebrated New Year's together, but that New Year's Eve, I wanted to bring it in by myself. And not because I was lonely, but, but because I was actually full. I claimed what I wanted and I received it. So I had my mom's picture with me.

I had my mom's U with me. I had a candle. I ain't have nothing else in here but me, my mom and the candle. And that's how I bought, that's how I bought the new year in. And every day since I've been here, I've decided that one, my household was always going to be a place of peace. And not that I don't go through anything, but when I do, I'm intentional about getting up and going [00:08:00] for a walk.

Because I wanna make sure that my household stays 

Aransas: peaceful. What a radical idea that is to take the drama outside and not let it live with you. There's something else I hear in what you're saying, which sounds like being enough for yourself, which is maybe an even more radical idea for most women. What is it like to really be with your own company?

Temecka: I love it. I love it. Most of the time I'm, when I'm here, because I have big windows, I'm in here and I can be in my apartment. With the TV off. I do like listening to music, but there's times that I don't even turn the music on. When I come home, I shower and I can just lay in here still, like just relaxing in complete silence [00:09:00] because of just the way that I care for myself.

And it took work to get, get here where just being able to sit in silence and not have your, you know, your mind wandering. I consider myself sometimes like an overthinker. I can sit in here and I can be silent and be okay and not have my mind racing all over, but it took, it took some time to get here, but I'm happy that I arrived.

What was that work like? I did a few. I did a self-development workshop, so I invested in myself. I have a therapist, not only if something is bad or something went wrong, do I invest in myself. I also invest in myself when things are good. Because sometimes it's like, you know, we, I, you can get caught up with just saying, you know what?

I'm gonna do this work when I'm going through something. When you know, the anxiety attacks come right. All of those things take place. But [00:10:00] when I knew that this is what I wanted, I was like, what would it look like for me to also do the work when I am in my happy place, to where the work continues versus it just only showing up when.

I'm not having a good day or a good moment. 

Aransas: I think it's something that's really hard for a lot of women, but you and I have been in each other's lives for a lot of years, so I've gotten to witness how you are, and I see you more in social media now than in person. And one of the things that really jumps out to me is that you are more celebratory than most people.

You strike me as somebody who is constantly looking for. The winds and the beauty and the remarkable, even in the ordinary, you see it for its extraordinariness, and that to me is such a powerful strength of yours [00:11:00] to be able to name and identify and then shout joy for those little things that feel really big when you honor them.

Temecka: Being able to celebrate the small things with the community and the ladies that are in different groups that I'm a part of. And you know, I've been a consultant with the budget needs running her dream catcher groups as her national dream catcher leader. One of the things that I encourage with the ladies that.

I interact with on a monthly basis is to celebrate. 'cause we are so hard, especially as women because we are taught we gotta show up. Mm-hmm. Right? Like when everybody else is sick, we gotta take care of everybody else. But when we are sick, we still gotta show up. Mm-hmm. Right. And you know, it's exhausting and we so hard on ourselves.

I went for a walk today and I did an hour. Instead of saying, oh, I only did an hour. [00:12:00] Just change the way, take the only out of it. Mm-hmm. And celebrate that. You just, you did an hour period. Mm-hmm. The only doesn't need to be there because then it's like, did the walk mean anything? Right. So it's the language that I'm mindful.

Right. Did it 

Aransas: mean anything if we're calling it only. 

Temecka: Yes, it does mean something, right? And so leading the ladies through a debt elimination challenge and someone may have been able to pay off one of their credit cards, right? And it's like, celebrate that, right? Don't sit there and you know and downplay it, right?

It's an accomplishment. Getting to the next step of your financial journey. So just in everyday life, I was excited today 'cause I cooked dinner. I haven't cooked dinner and like today I was like, wow, I cooked dinner. I'm excited. It's something that I haven't done in a minute and I'm like, look at me [00:13:00] today.

I stayed home on purpose because of personal situation. I wasn't okay to go to work, and I made the decision when I got up this morning and I'm like, no, I'm gonna take time for myself and not force myself to just be. I wasn't Okay. 

Aransas: There is some woman listening to this right now who is thinking to herself.

It never would've occurred to me to take care of me in that moment because so many of us are so accountable to our commitments that we forget that the person who most needs our accountability and commitment is ourselves. I. 

Temecka: And it's like just looking in the mirror and saying, what do I need? Mm-hmm. And one of the questions that I asked, and I had to ask myself this last night, what does support look like to you right now?

Mm-hmm. What do you need? Mm-hmm. And I needed a moment. I needed to be able to get myself together. I pretty much sat in here most of the [00:14:00] day in silence because I just needed to process what it was, but I gave myself permission to do so. And not beating myself up, like, oh my gosh, you gotta go to work. Or you know, you should be doing this.

And it was like, no, 

Aransas: if you don't go, you're gonna get fired. If you don't go, you're not gonna get promoted. If you don't go, you're not gonna be valuable. If you don't go, other people's feelings are gonna be hurt or they're gonna have to work. Right? There's so many things we can pile onto ourselves that turn up as guilt and shame and so then we don't take care of ourselves.

And I wanna just point out something in your question. You said what, what kind of support do I need? What does it look like for me? Because we do get super generic about our ideas and our expectations of these things, right? Like it's like this is what support looks like. And it'd be easy for me to say, ah, worked for Tamecka, it's gonna work for me.

But that's not right. It's about honoring what's true for 

Temecka: us. We can't say we need support if we first don't know what support looks like to [00:15:00] ourselves. No. And my sister circle is the same thing where I ask the ladies all the time, how do you need us to support you? We are sister friends and we are here for each other, but each day, maybe each hour might be something different that you need from us.

So in order for me to really support you, I need, you need to first identify what the support look like to you first in order for you to be able to filter it down to anybody else, right? If you was to call me and say, well, Tamecka, what did you need? What do you need? But if I don't know, because I never even asked myself the question.

Then how do I tell you what I need support on? And then I can't be mad if you're not supporting me in the way that I need, 

Aransas: right? Because it's human nature to assume that other people need what we need, and to try to get it in and be really confused when it's not what they need. And so I describe you as being this masterful friend, and I think that's a [00:16:00] part of it because you are aware that everyone has different needs and you take that to a different level by asking people what those are.

And the beauty of that is, You know better how to show up for them. There's less frustration and friction in the relationship because you were being meaningful and intentional in that relationship. And what a beautiful act of love to trigger that self-reflection in others, because I feel like every time we ask a question like that, what kind of support do you need?

The response starts with, oh, good question. And to me, good question is really people saying, Oh, I hadn't thought of that, and I really wanna know the answer myself, 

Temecka: right? And it gives you an opportunity not to feel like you're forced to answer the question now, because you can pause and say, can I get back to you?

If I don't know the answer, why give a generic answer. Because then [00:17:00] when the support comes and that's not the support you need, you are not gonna use it anyway. So it's like pause. If you don't know the answer, it's okay. Give yourself permission to say, you know what, can I get back to you because I don't know.

And it's just honoring that I don't know what I need right now, but I can get back to you. 

Aransas: Yep. It started the conversation and most of the time it's not. About finding all the answers, it's about asking the questions and opening ourselves to the answers. You talk about the law of attraction for people who aren't familiar with that idea.

What do you mean by it? 

Temecka: It's when you speak something, you just, you put it out there and the universe is gonna answer in some kind of way. And just one of the things that I'm mindful of now, 'cause sometimes I'm like, I asked for something and I sometimes I'm not ready. And I'm like, oh wait, so that [00:18:00] happened really fast.

I wasn't expecting that. Right? Like, you know, we're getting my apartment and when I started looking for apartments, this build, the, the where I'm living at came up and I'm like, Really. And then I got the call the very next day. So they say when you ask for something, you gotta be ready. Mm-hmm. Because you never know when it's coming.

It could be scary sometimes. I'm not saying it's not, because I was like, oh wait, I don't know if I really was ready. And I almost talked myself out of it and I was like, you know what? This is what you asked for. You Ha, you got it. 

Aransas: You're so brave to say yes. It had to be kind of scary. To go out on your 

Temecka: own.

I walked in here with absolutely nothing. So all of it was scary. It was like, okay, you know, what am I going to eat right? Like, I'm gonna be eating oodles and noodles [00:19:00] for like a year or something, and how long is it gonna take me to get a, you know, a bed? Like, so I was o that's when the overthinking started coming in, but it really came together really nicely.

And the support that I received was unmatched and just the way that I show up for people, my family and friends, they showed up for me. 

Aransas: I feel like there is somewhere in the world at this very second, some woman in the middle of folding a giant pile of laundry who was just stopped in her tracks and just dropped all that laundry on the floor with the realization that.se

She could take care of herself and that she could be free and she could start over. So if you were talking to that woman right now, what would you say to her, Tamecka? 

Temecka: I would say trust yourself. Trust yourself, and [00:20:00] know that it's possible. It works out. As long as you do the work and you stay true to what it is that you wanna do, it's gonna happen.

And almost three years later, and this was one of the best gifts that I have given myself as an adult, I wouldn't change anything about it. Even the moments of being scared. But I allowed myself to feel each emotion. I processed the emotion when it came up, and again, it's not because the relationship was broken, it was actually just me deciding to pour into myself because it was a desire that I had.

To just take care of Tamecka, not Tamecka and her three children, not Tamecka and her partner. It was more the, the [00:21:00] decision was about Tamecka and Tamecka alone. 

Aransas: What an empowering and liberating decision. And when we talk about. Uplifters creating space to nurture and nourish their own dreams and their own goals.

So often it's, I wanna start a business, or I wanna write a book, or I want to travel the world. And yet I think too, there is this urge in so many women to just get intimately familiar with themselves, to have the freedom to just do things the way they wanna after a life of serving others. And certainly, You have not slowed down and loving on and caring for other people.

It's just that you've really added yourself to this mix in a consistent and prioritized 

Temecka: way. Everybody says you gotta fill up your [00:22:00] cup so that you can pour into others. And so I decided this year I'm gonna fill the cup, but this year I'm gonna drink from the cup. And then whatever spills over is what I would give to others.

So instead of just taking the whole cup right, and giving it to everyone else and just leaving everything else that was over for me. This time I'm taking the cup for me. And then I still wanna pour into other people. I still wanna give because I just love, you know, acts of service, but, I'm like, I get to go first this time.

And 

Aransas: what have you noticed about your cup as a result? 

Temecka: It's fuller. Hmm. It's fuller and, and I still pour, but even when I'm pouring and I'm pouring into other people, I still first check in with Tamecka. [00:23:00] If it's something I, I don't make plans and to try to break them. But if I'm not okay at that moment, then even if I'm still going to show up, I still will take time out for myself and then still show up.

But before I used to show up and not be okay and then take care of Tamecka. So now it's the reverse where I take care of me first and then I show up. Yeah, 

Aransas: because when you wait, it's almost like the cup is almost broken by that point. So you have to like get a new cup. It's just a lot more work. 

Temecka: Like you gotta try to put crazy glue on it.

Like you gotta put all the pieces together and I'm like, I don't wanna operate that way anymore. And you know, and I love service, I love community, but I'm like, it's not serving me if I'm giving more to everyone else. Then I'm giving to myself. Let's 

Aransas: put that on a T-shirt. [00:24:00] So Tamecka, let's talk about, I am my sister.

How did that come to be? 

Temecka: A friend of mine passed away from having a stroke, and our last encounter was at the hospital when I was holding her hand. I said, you know, you're my sister, and she couldn't talk, but she wiggled her toes and then she passed away. What 

Aransas: does it mean to be my 

Temecka: sister? I am my sisters where I am taking care of me, but I'm also taking care of my sisters.

When I say I am my sister and I'm referencing other women, I'm also speaking to myself. Because I am also my sister. It was important for me to have the My in there because it included me. I curate different events for women to get together. My goal is to always [00:25:00] have women show up at anything that I do is for them to leave better than what they came.

How 

Aransas: beautiful. What are your big dreams for this? 

Temecka: My big dreams for I am my sister, is to have it be inclusive to so many women. Because one thing that I, I constantly hear is, oh, women can't get together. Right? Once. It's too many women, and I'm like, but we are the women. We get to change that narrative about women can't get together and support each other.

Like we can even be supportive to each other even if our energy doesn't align. We can still coexist and still have respect and love for each other, even if we have differences, even in the circle. I am my sister. It's just for women to get together and create adult friendships and curate just the simple things that we take for granted and [00:26:00] just make them bigger.

Aransas: What do you believe is most important to. Being an adult female friend, 

Temecka: what's important for me is when I think of like just how I show up for my friends, it's checking in, right, knowing when my friend goes silent. Because I have a lot of strong friends, right? Like we get labeled as always, the strong women, but I'm like, sometimes I don't wanna be the strong woman.

I just wanna be a woman. I randomly send my friends text messages just because, just knowing when your friend may need you or when your friend needs you to back up. It's just knowing your friends and knowing that. You get at a friendship which you put into it, and knowing that if you choose to be disconnected, then people are gonna disconnect from you.

Mm-hmm. So you can still [00:27:00] disconnect when you need to, but it's your responsibility to reconnect. 

Aransas: So you have a big birthday coming up. 

Temecka: I'm super, super excited. It's my 50th birthday. 

Aransas: What do you want for this next decade for Tamecka? 

Temecka: I'm still processing it. I'm doing a 50 day countdown to 50. You're so 

Aransas: good at marking the moments you make everything so special.

Temecka: So each day I'm just speaking about how I'm feeling. It's been emotional because. Although I moved in here and it is still my very peaceful place, like I have some suitcases that I have to unpack. I have some things that I have to get rid of. I have some tough conversations that I'm gonna have to have that I can no longer keep putting off, so that as I go into being turning 50, I'm not going with all of this baggage.

So [00:28:00] like each day something new comes up. And I'm embracing it all. I'm actually, I'm really, really excited. And what 

Aransas: kind of questions are you asking yourself? I'm 

Temecka: like, what do you want? Right? What am I pretending? What are you pretending not to know? These are so 

Aransas: great and what I hear you doing is really this, 50 days to 50 is a challenge to reflect for 50 days and to ask yourself the questions that we can miss asking.

I. Ourselves. Ourselves. It's a really beautiful and inspiring concept, and so much of who you are as a person is asking the hard questions, facing the hard answers, and then celebrating every moment of progress, every learning, every opportunity, every bit of growth. [00:29:00] And that my friend, that is a recipe for a happy life.

And that is why when you walk into a room, we all feel lighter and brighter because you have put down so much of your baggage that your light can shine, and it makes all of us feel. That same sense of sunshine on our faces. Are there any other messages you wanna make sure that Uplifters hear in your story?

Temecka: Give yourself permission to not be okay. Give yourself permission that if you need to cry, it's okay. Sometimes don't even wipe the tears away because if you don't wipe 'em away when you are okay, the tears will stop automatically. Feel the feeling. Until you are feeling better, I promise you that the tears are gonna stop automatically [00:30:00] when we start wiping away the tears.

It's, it's kind of like telling ourself to stop 

Aransas: feeling. You are so special to me and I'm so grateful for this conversation and I am so excited that we recorded it so that we can share it with all the uplifters out there. Learn more about [email protected] over on our ck that's where you'll find a beautiful community of women.

Who are also uplifters sharing their truth and their wisdom with one another. You also find lots of research ideas, tools, and understanding about what it means to be an uplifter in this beautiful world. Let's keep rising higher together. Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast. If you're getting a boost from these episodes, Please share them with the uplifters in your life and then join us in conversation [email protected].[00:31:00] 

Head over to Spotify, apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. And like, follow and rate our show. It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one of these beautiful stories.

As an educator, Kaitlin Johnstone realized quickly that the children she was teaching didn’t have adequate access to books.  She often spent her own money to provide them with books to have over school breaks.  She started a reading program once a month in which each book centered around kindness and inclusion.  At the end of the lesson, every child in the group could keep a copy of the book they had just read. 

In order to fund the purchase of more books, she enlisted her husband, who worked in custom apparel, to create a line of clothing that centered on messages of inclusion, empathy, love, and kindness.  Although her intention was to provide books for her own students, the idea mushroomed into a way to fund donations of over 124,000 books so far, and they’re just getting started.

Kaitlin and her husband believe that kindness is the most basic human right, but it needs to be more than just simple pleasantries. In order to make a difference and change the world,  kindness must be rooted in justice and action. 

In this episode you’ll learn:

• [00:07:00] How to put your ego aside and ask yourself what systems you might be upholding that are causing harm.

• [00:18:00] How to protect your peace in the face of negativity on social media and in your community.

• [00:26:00] Ways to be proactive about your mental health instead of reactive.

Kaitlin was nominated for the Uplifers by Christina Testut.

Learn more about Kaitlin at Kind Cotton

Listen to our latest episode in the player here, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. 

This Week on The Uplifters

“I was an educator for over eight years, and it didn't take a long time for me to realize the lack of access that children had to books. The kids were allowed to check books out of the library, but they were not even allowed to bring them home. I found myself buying a lot of books for my students.

I came home to my husband, and said, “Hey, you have always worked in custom apparel. I'm doing this education thing. There's a real need for more books. So I wanna create clothing that centers messages of inclusion, empathy, love, and kindness. And with every single purchase, I wanna put a book into the hands of a child. All I wanted to do was gain more access for my students. Never did I imagine that Kind Cotton would become what it has become today.”

Kind Cotton Founder, Kaitlin Johnstone

What Kind Cotton has become is a movement. They have donated 124,000 books so far, and they’re just getting started!

Kaitlin and her husband believe that kindness is the most basic human right, but it needs to be more than just simple pleasantries. In order to make a difference and change the world,  kindness must be rooted in justice and action. 

To celebrate Kaitlin’s great work, we are doing our first-ever raffle: A Kindness Chain.

Here’s how it works: Do something kind for someone, post about it on social media, and tag us (@theuplifterspodcast) to be entered to win a Kind Cotton shirt of your choice. We will announce a winner next Friday.

In this episode you’ll learn:

* [00:07:00] How to put your ego aside and ask yourself what systems you might be upholding that are causing harm.

* [00:18:00] How to protect your peace in the face of negativity on social media and in your community.

* [00:26:00] Ways to be proactive about your mental health instead of reactive.

Kaitlin was nominated for the Uplifters by Christina Testut.

Learn more about Kaitlin at Kind Cotton.

Messy Transcript

Aransas: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Uplifters Podcast. I'm your host, Aransas Savas, and you just heard the wonderful Christina Testut from episode 16. Introducing today's guest, Kaitlin Johnstone. Kaitlin, I'm so excited to meet you.

Thank you for being here. 

Kaitlin: Thank you so much for having me. 

Aransas: Your mission is so beautiful and generous and important.

How did this become the thing that you put your energy and attention into? 

Kaitlin: That's a great question. So I was an educator in the state of Florida for over eight years, and it didn't take a long time for me to realize the lack of access that children had to books. In fact, in the school that I was in at the time when I started my educational career, The kids were allowed to check books out of the library, but they were not even allowed to bring them home.

So I found myself buying a lot of books for my students. They were taking them home from our classroom library. Um, I was buying them for winter break and summer break, and, and anytime I had an opportunity to get my hands on books that [00:02:00] children could keep, I was making that happen. So I came home to my husband, who was not my husband at the time.

I don't think timeline is, you know. But I came home to him and I said, Hey, like you have always worked in custom apparel. I'm doing this education thing. I'm recognizing that there's a real need. For more books. So what I wanna do is create clothing that really centers messages of inclusion and empathy and love and kindness.

And with every single purchase, I wanna put a book into the hands of a child at the time. All I wanted to do was gain more access for my students. Never did I imagine that kind cotton would've become what it has become today. Um, in the very, very early days, I started reading program at that school that I was teaching at, and I would do a lesson once a month.

On a book that really [00:03:00] centered the idea of kindness. And then at the end of my lesson, every single child would get to leave with a copy of the book that I had done my lesson on. And there were about 30 students in the program at the time. So I used to tell myself every single day when I woke up, if I can just sell one shirt today, then I can fund that reading program.

And now we're up to over a hundred thousand books, which is like, I have to remind myself of that almost on a daily basis, um, because it's pretty amazing. 

Aransas: And why was it kindness that felt most important to center here? 

Kaitlin: That is an amazing question, and I've done quite a few podcasts and I don't know that anyone has ever asked me that question, and that's so important.

Um, I grew up in. A dance company that was not your [00:04:00] traditional company. It wasn't like doing shows and stuff. We were a very beautifully diverse group of children. Um, all different backgrounds, all different religions, all different races. And our teacher really. Centered this mission of kindness that was different than your average way of looking at kindness.

It wasn't just niceness, it was, it was seeing one another's differences and honoring those differences and not othering them. And that has been something that has always stood by my side, whether it be through our business or just my personal life. And I really wanted to, Have children see themselves in the books that we donated.

So I knew that the clothing had to represent that exact [00:05:00] messaging. 

Aransas: And when you talk about the clothing, what are some examples of, of what these shirts say? 

Kaitlin: Yeah, so our most popular design is one that kind of takes on a definition of kindness. We actually created it with all of our customers and our followers.

I was like, listen, this is the sole mission of kind. Cotton is kindness, but what does kindness mean to you? And we had hundreds of entries and we asked them just for one word, like if you could center kindness, What would that one word be? And we picked our five favorites, which is love, empathy, inclusion, compassion and justice, which ultimately makes up kindness.

And that has become our bestselling shirt. I would say that 80% of our sales is that exact design. Um, that shirt alone has probably donated over 60,000 books. Uh, [00:06:00] And yeah, it's just, it's really special to me because it was a group effort and it was a, a collective that really came together in wanting to center some goodness in our world that's so 

Aransas: meaningful and I think so heartening to know that there are so many people out in the world who want to center kindness.

Mm-hmm. So who are these people? 

Kaitlin: So I love to think of those people as the helpers, the people who are out there wanting to. Cultivate change in a way that our society really needs some change. Right now it's the people who are, who are open to hearing that change. It's the people who can kind of [00:07:00] put their ego aside and recognize that, hey, like sometimes I uphold systems that are causing harm, and what can I do to be a part of the change as opposed to remaining.

A part of the problem, and I think that that's something that's really difficult for us who. Have varying levels of privilege to understand, like that's become such a buzz word for like, Ooh, my guard is up and I don't wanna talk about this. And, that's just creating divisiveness when in fact it's just really trying to unify people and really try and bring apart.

Bring together the fact that we do have a lot of things that we need to work on, and the only way that we're going to create a more kind society is if we recognize [00:08:00] those things and then we fight to do better. 

Aransas: If you were to imagine the kindest vision of our future as a country, what might it look like?

Mm-hmm.

Kaitlin: It would look. Like the words on this team, it would look like justice and inclusion for all. Like truly inclusion for all. It would look like equity for all. It would look like access for all. It would look like kind of tearing down these systems that have only benefited certain people for centuries and rebuilding them with.

Community in mind.

Aransas: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And a, and a genuine belief that it is better 

Kaitlin: for all. When we want equity, we're not taking the entire pie, right? We're just like dividing it in equal parts so that everyone is seen and heard and valued for exactly who they are.

And the reality of our country is, is that marginalized communities are marginalized communities for a reason and they don't have an equitable. Seat at the table. Yeah. 

Aransas: At the moment. Well, and I think whatever it is people really value, whether it's innovation or wealth or power mm-hmm. All of that actually is compromised by an equity.

Mm-hmm. Because the greatest potential can get lost in that system and can get hidden and. That alongside just the, the power of diverse thinking and the innovation that yields it truly is [00:10:00] better for everyone. And yet it's scary, right? Because I think, like you're saying, there is this fear that if I give up my piece of the pie, am I gonna go hungry?

Kaitlin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. No, I totally understand where you're coming from and I think that's what's what. Drives a lot of people to hold so tightly to these systems is that it's when we're, when we're leading our actions through fear, we're not, we're not doing anyone the best service that we can be doing.

Mm-hmm. 

So you, so you started this project in Florida,What was the response to starting this project?

In this time, in that place 

Kaitlin: we started kind Cotton going on six years ago now. So at the time, I mean, I can remember the first time that I. Just posted something that said Black Lives Matter. And this is why, you know, it's important to represent all children in literature because the reality of it is, is that, uh, black characters only make up like 9% of children's books, and we have many more black people in America.

And this is so important and people loved it. I mean, if I got one negative comment [00:12:00] that was like, A lot in the, in the thousands of, of comments and likes and, and feedback that we received. Because that was a different time, right? Like people were, not to say that there weren't people who were like, oh no, this is absolutely terrible.

And obviously I had cultivated a business and a brand in which certain people were viewing. Yep. My things. But I will say that at the time I was an educator who taught accurate history, who read books that featured. All family dynamics. You know, one of my favorites of all time that I would always read was the family book by Todd Parr, which is one that has been banned in states such as Florida.

That simply says, some families have a mom and a dad. Some families have two moms. Some families have two dads. Some [00:13:00] families have one parent, some children are adopted, and I never received any negative feedback ever. In my eight years of teaching, so fast forward to when I left the classroom, which was a couple of months into the pandemic.

I just had my daughter. My parents were both very high risk and I made the choice that if I was ever going to do kind cotton full-time, now is the time. So I still had a lot of connections within the district that I was teaching in and a lot of support in that district. And we had run fundraisers with various schools in that district, and we set up a fundraiser with a local elementary school, and some people got a hold of our website and started [00:14:00] threatening us and started calling us.

Incredibly horrific profane things, uh, could easily find out where we lived. Were showing up on the doorsteps of other people in the community who were speaking up for equity and inclusion, and I can remember that was the day that I went into my husband's office. Hysterical. Saying we have a daughter to think about and it comes with immense privilege to be able to pick up and leave.

Um, but we left our home and we moved to a place in which we felt more safe. Um, and that is just like the very surface level explanation as to what happened because I haven't really felt. Fully comfortable coming out with all of the details. So for anyone who may hear this, who thinks that it's all just like a conflated message and book bans aren't really happening and these horrific things aren't taking place, they really are. 

Aransas: What a terrifying and heartbreaking experience. Yeah. You know, just on this very human level, it breaks my heart that people would want to hurt people because they want kindness and acceptance for all people.

Yeah, 

Kaitlin: yeah, yeah. What a tragedy. And instead of kind of saying, this is unacceptable, like we're gonna go through with this, because the [00:16:00] important message here is that children are getting access to books. The school district backed down as they do when there's a lot of loud noise from a very small minority.

And I always caution people about, Saying, well, this is just the vocal minority. Like these things aren't really gonna happen because in many instances the vocal minority has been so loud that like these things really are happening, you know? And that's sad. Yeah, 

Aransas: it's very sad and it's very real. Andyou were.

Aiming, I think, to do all of this from a root of kindness. So there are many different ways to create change and, and I think one of the things I take from your approach is that you feel most authentically aligned with an approach that is unifying, um [00:17:00] mm-hmm. And not an approach that is divisive. And.

So to face that sort of division and unkindness in response to a message of kindness, I feel like just had to be really disorienting. 

Kaitlin: I'm used to it on social media, like I've gotten to a point where it used to give me like full blown anxiety and it was really difficult for me to just see some of the messages that I would receive online.

But I've now gotten to a point where I understand that if someone is coming at you with such hate that you're not ever gonna change that person's mind. So, There is beauty in blocking and deleting and protecting your piece, but when I faced it head [00:18:00] on, like in my life, in my community, it was really hard.

And I think that's why it's so important to continue advocating for inclusive education. It's important to continue advocating for being against book bans. It's important to. Advocate for all children to be seen in the books that they read. And that's kind of what keeps us going in knowing that if we can just reach one child who needed that book, just to say, Hey, like that's like me.

And for the first time ever, I don't feel different than all of that other stuff is worth it. 

Aransas: What is it about books? Why are they so important to kids to have equal access to? 

Kaitlin: [00:19:00] So I can remember just all of these beautiful memories around books I can remember. My mom curling up with me and taking me on adventures that maybe I would've never known in my real life, but a book could take me there.

So I think that in and of itself is very, very, very important. There's also the ed educational aspect of it, whereas children who have more books in their home are. Proven to just do better academically. That's really important. And then there's this, there's also this piece of representation and how important that is because every single child deserves to be.

The hero in the story, the prince, the princess, and every other child should have the opportunity to see children who are different from them to [00:20:00] to learn about various cultures, to understand family traditions that may not be similar to their own, because that is the only way in which we can truly develop empathy for one another.

You may not know a ton of people who are different from you in your bubble of where you live, in your school community, in your family community, in your neighborhood, but books can really give you that opportunity to see someone else's life and to see that their differences are not scary, that their differences are not something to be afraid of, that their differences.

Are in fact different. But those differences make us who we are and it makes us see the beauty in our humanity. 

Aransas: Yeah. Yeah. And it makes us see that our way is not the only way. 

Kaitlin: Yeah, for sure. 

Aransas: Absolutely. And especially [00:21:00] as children, we only know what's happening in our immediates runnings, our worlds. I mean, they're bigger, I guess now for children than they once were because of, uh, digital access, but mm-hmm.

For the most part, we know what our parents say is good to eat, and we know what our. How our parents tie their shoes, right? Like that these are, these are our people and our influences, and so we grow up believing that that's the only thing that exists is that little bubble. And I do think that books can really expand that perspective and help children choose what's right and true for them.

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Which is maybe part of what makes it scary for people. 

Kaitlin: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So 

Aransas: what's next for sure for you and kind Cotton, what big dreams do you have? 

Kaitlin: Hmm. So we always say, and we've said this from the beginning, that we are on a road to 1 million books donated. And that used to feel like this huge, lavish dream that could never be accomplished.

But now that like, We're kind of seeing that that could be feasible is like really, really, really exciting. I just want children to have access to as many inclusive books as possible. I wanna continue our advocacy work. I want to really develop a community in which people feel connected and people feel like they're not kind of going through this.

Scary time alone. Um, because I think that that's something that I've needed along this journey. [00:25:00] And yeah, I, uh, I have a lot of, a lot of grand ideas and thankfully I have a partner in my husband who is my life partner and my business partner who is much better at taking those ideas and making them happen.

I'm kind of the dreamer and he's the doer. So, um, we'll see what's in store. Good balance 

Aransas: there. You found the right partner? Yeah, for sure. Mm-hmm. So you are decidedly an uplifter. You are someone who with your daily life, Has really put energy and focus into making your community and the world a better place for others.

But I think one of the biggest challenges for Uplifters is learning how to care for ourselves as well as we care for everyone else. So how do you care for yourself mentally? 

Kaitlin: Oh my goodness. So I go to therapy, which I understand [00:26:00] that. There's a lot of issues with access to that, and that's like a whole nother podcast episode.

Mm-hmm. But if it is accessible to you, I highly recommend it. And one of the first things that my therapist ever said to me is, Caitlin, you need to show up for yourself the way that you show up for other people. Like that's, you know, end of story. And for some reason that was like a light bulb that went off for me because I've never really had anyone.

Put it in such simple terms. So for me, making sure that I have some quality time to just be with myself regardless of how busy I am and how stressful the day-to-day is, is really important. The way that that looks is always somewhat different. I, for my mental health, really need to move my body. I. Love writing.

Do I [00:27:00] always do it? Not so much. Um, reading has become huge for me and making sure that I love to read all different things, but making sure that I leave my heavy reading during the day and kind of like my lighthearted reading before bed and yeah, just, just doing. Check-ins on myself. And again, I am incredibly fortunate that I have a partner in which that is feasible and we both really hone in on and support one another's needs when it comes to like finding that that balance of parenting and, and business work and also really.

Making sure that we are mentally sound and well too. Yeah. What does that 

Aransas: look like to partner with your husband and while also partnering with him to raise a child? How do you find that 

Kaitlin: [00:28:00] balance? we are very alike in many ways, but then we're also like super different, like I mentioned before.

So kind cotton would not work. Without the two of us. Like I always say that I do all the social media and the podcast and, and talk to people and the book events and all kind of like the face-to-face things, but like if it were just me, we literally wouldn't even have a website. Like he is the man behind the scenes making it all work.

So I love that we balance each other in that way and we also very much balance each other. In life in that way. Um, pre having our daughter, so pre-children, I think that we were both just like very type b very laid back, very easygoing. And then you get smacked in the face with a [00:29:00] pandemic and an infant who was colicky and like all of these other things and you're like, Oh wow.

Like we really can't just survive off of, of like just being super chill. Um, so we have definitely like done some therapy together, and talked through the fact that parenting is hard and communicating through parenting is really hard and that has done. A tremendous amount of good for us, and that's another thing that I would recommend.

Like I look at mental health and relationships as being proactive as opposed to reactive. So, I went into therapy the moment the pandemic started being like, Hmm, I could see that. Like we're all gonna be struggling a bit here and I wanna be ahead of the game so that I feel the best about myself, that I can.

Similarly, [00:30:00] we were like, oh, we're having some challenges, just like with our daughters. Um, I don't wanna say behavior because you know, she just had like some stuff going on that a lot of infants do, and we wanted to make sure that our relationship was super sound and the way in which we wanted to parent was in line.

And there was a lot of unlearning that took place too, because our generation kind of parented in a completely different way. So just. Being on the same page and being able to communicate and being able to ask for help and kind of humble yourself in doing so has been huge for both of us. 

Aransas: Hmm. What a beautiful investment in your relationship.

Well, Kaitlin, yeah, I know you have a world to get out there and change and, uh, it needs you. We need you. Thank you for all that you do. For all of you listening to the Uplifters podcast, I hope you'll check out Kind Cotton and Caitlin's work there. Um, Buy a shirt, donate a book. I'm gonna go over and do that as soon as we end this session, and then I hope you'll come over and hang out with [email protected] where you'll find lots of other uplifters and you'll get lots of other information about ways that you can be your best self and keep doing all of the great work that you do out in the world.

Let's keep rising higher together. Thank you so much. Thank you. 

 “Don't race too often, don't go out too fast, and when you feel niggles, deal with them before they become injuries.” Gordon Bakoulis

THIS WEEK ON THE UPLIFTERS

Gordon Bakoulis, Editorial Director of New York Road Runners, qualified for the U.S. Olympic marathon trials in 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 and was a finalist in the 1992 U.S. Olympic 10,000m trials. She has represented the U.S. internationally at the 10K, half-marathon, and marathon distances.

When she started running in the mid-1970’s, there were very few women who could keep up with her pace, and even fewer whom she could look up to, but her pure love for the sport, the running community, and the success she discovered, lifted her up (even if the crude sports bras didn’t). 

At age 62, Gordon's focus as a runner has shifted to health and longevity; however, she still loves chasing fast age-graded times and going head-to-head with her rivals. She coaches other women to find the joy and freedom of running and is a fierce advocate for access and equity in running.

In this episode you’ll learn:

* [00:29:00] How to find peace and strength in the inevitability of aging and injury

* [00:33:00] How to tune in to what ignites your passion

* [00:35:00] How to understand your personal impact

* [00:47:00] How to recognize what is inside you that is holding you back

MESSY TRANSCRIPT

Aransas: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Uplifters Podcast. I'm your host, Aransas Savas, and today I'm joined by Gordon Bakoulis. And Gordon has been a distance runner since 1978 She qualified for the US Olympic Marathon trials in 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000 and 2004. I mean, so start doing that math now, uh, to see how long her career has been. And she was a finalist at the 1992 US Olympic 10,000 meter trials. She's represented the US internationally at the 10 K distance, half marathon and marathon at 62, she is [00:01:00] still turning out crazy fast times, but.

That's not really even the most impressive thing about Gordon. The most impressive thing about Gordon is that I've had the opportunity now to talk to a number of people who have worked with Gordon, both in her day job as a New York Road runners editorial director and as a coach. Without fail, every person has described her in the same way.

This remarkable, talented, gifted woman is described over and over again as the kindest and most generous person they've ever known. And so today I am gonna. Chat with Gordon to understand both what it was like to be a pioneer. I'm pretty sure she doesn't even think of herself that way, but to be a pioneer [00:02:00] in women's distance running and how she has now translated that to bring the joy of running to well, directly and indirectly, probably millions of lives.

Gordon, thank you for being here and thank you for being you. 

Gordan: Aransas, thank you so much. I'm really, really honored to be on the uplifters podcast. And, um, really excited to talk to you and see you again. And thank you for that introduction. Um, I, I feel humbled and, and overwhelmed, so thank you so much.

This is, this is gonna be a lot of fun. 

Aransas: Well, I am, I'm a little energized too by getting to chat with you and you're just someone I've always admired and respected, and I think those are very different things, but, uh, in your case, both are very true and I just have always wanted to know more about this story.

So can we start [00:03:00] at the beginning of you falling in love with running? Yeah. When and how did that 

Gordan: happen? Let's rewind, let's go all the way back. Um, as you said in your intro, I am 62 years old. Uh, so let's do a little math. I was born in 1961 and um, I was an active kid back then. Uh, active little girls were called tomboy, so I was a tomboy.

Um, I. Um, not necessarily organized sports 'cause as you said, or as you implied there, there were not a whole lot of opportunities for organized sports in, uh, any realm for, for little girls back in the sixties and early seventies. Um, it's funny how, you know, you just sort of, as a kid, you, your universe, you just accept it, you know, it's like, I was aware that little league was only for boys.

So I just grew up playing, you know, like sandlot baseball, um, and kickball and um, things like that. But then also, Games like kick the Can and hide and seek and we, we invented a game in our neighborhood that was my favorite. It was just called Chase. And it was just that we, sometimes we'd play it in teams, sometimes it would be like one individual and we would just, it was like organized, running around.

So we would just literally run around the [00:05:00] neighborhood all day long, um, playing, you know, organized and sometimes disorganized games, and I just loved that feeling, I did not get involved in running in an organized way till the very end of high school.  I went out for track and immediately I, I discovered I did have a talent for running. Um, and went all the way to the state, meet in the. Um, I mean, I was not like, you know, I didn't go beyond that at all. You know, I, in the state meet, I, I don't remember how I placed, but it wasn't, you know, I wasn't a contender or anything, but that was, that was cool, you know, to, you know, 'cause I was recognized for that, um, at my high school and, um, uh, in like local, you know, the local paper and things like that.

So that was, that was kind of fun. But yeah, as you said, that was 1978. Um, 79. I graduated from co, from high school in 1979. And, um, you know, there, there were not a lot of runners in general. Um, and there were even fewer [00:09:00] girls and women running. Um, not a lot of role models to look up to, but there were a few, um, yeah.

Don't think of myself as a pioneer so much as like, just like right behind the pioneers, it was like they kicked the doors open and I ran through, ran, and I really felt like that, you know, like, so the names that I had heard of, um, in those days were Greta Waitz. Of course the great Greta Waitz who ended up, um, winning nine New York City Marathon titles, five New York mini titles.

Um, she was someone who was on my radar, um, even though she wasn't an American, she was Norwegian, you know, she was like a superstar. And I, I'd heard of her and then, Along the way, I, I knew the name Joan Benoit, who became Joan Benoit Samuelsson and went on to win an Olympic gold medal in the marathon in 1984.

Um, but very few others. Um, and, you know, I was the best at my high school, [00:10:00] so there was, you know, no one to really sort of chase on the local scene. Um, but yeah, you know, looking back, I guess, I guess I was pioneering, you know, the women, my, the girls and women my age. Um, 

Aransas: certainly locally. Yeah. And who was championing you and encouraging you to keep 

Gordan: going?

Yeah, that was interesting. Um, my parents didn't quite know what to make of it, but, uh, I'm sure as I, as I developed as a runner, my father, um, was also getting into running. He had, um, Uh, he had run the, he ran the New York City Marathon in 1978, 1979 and 1980, and he got into running as he recovered from alcohol addiction.

He had been an alco active alcoholic through most of my childhood and became sober in 1975 and, um, started running in the winter of 1976. So he was a [00:11:00] little bit, you know, I, I can't really say that he was my role model, but. I was aware that he was a runner and he was using it in a very different way than I was.

He was, you know, um, probably could have been, uh, talented and accomplished if he'd started younger, but really was using it, um, for recovery and, um, to get through those, those early months of sobriety. But yeah, and he revealed later that, that his father had been, um, a track runner, track and cross country runner back in like the 1920s, um, as a a, a college student.

So there is running in the family on that side. My mom was, um, she was a, she had been a tomboy as well as he comes, but, um, was not, was not a runner during the. Wow. Um, but yeah, they were, they were encouraging, you know, they, you know, certainly never stood in my way or said, you know, don't do that. That's, that's, you know, not feminine or, you know, [00:12:00] and, and I knew girls whose, whose mothers did tell them that.

Mm-hmm. Um, unfortunately, you know, that running was, um, you know, there were crazy misconceptions back then about your uterus falling out, you know, and that just sounds so silly now, but it was actually talked about as if it were a real thing. So there were girls who either were told they shouldn't run or couldn't run, or, um, and also the equipment was dreadful.

His shoes were horrible. You know, there were no decent running bras. And, um, you know, the shorts, everything was built for men. Bodies like skinny men. And, um, so a lot of women, um, really struggled with that. I had a skinny body just sort of naturally, so it wasn't that big a deal for me. But, um, that was, that was a, a huge barrier to, to some girls and women back then.

Aransas: And did you ever feel a sense of societal resistance or, um, discouragement? To keep going or, or were you just so talented that [00:13:00] people were like, this is 

Gordan: awesome? Yeah, it was more than that. I don't get it, but keep going. Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. Like, you know, I don't understand it completely, but yeah, just do your thing.

And, you know, it was really this feeling of like riding a wave. Um, because the, the doors had been kicked open, um, the barriers were falling and more and more people were running, um, throughout the seventies, you know, 1972 was. Frank Shorter, winning a gold medal at the Munich Olympics and that that really, you know, kicked off the running boom in this country in a lot of ways.

Um, looking back, it was still a very, um, Insular. And honestly, there were a lot of barriers to inclusion. Um, it was perceived as something for skinny white people. Mm-hmm. And preferably fast, skinny, white people. Um, and that produced a lot of talent. I mean, American men and to a lesser extent women, but not women weren't, you know, completely excluded.

And we were being. Included more and more. Um, there was a ton of talent. [00:14:00] Um, you know, the talent pool was, was deep and there was just such a, an interest in it, but there wasn't a whole lot of interest in, in making the, the sport inclusive. Mm-hmm. Of all races, of all genders, of all body types. You know, the, the concept of, of fitness running was catching on, but it caught on first.

Probably among the people who needed it the least. If you, if you understand, you know, it really wasn't seen as something with people that people with disabilities could pursue. Uh, um, you know, as I said that, uh, people, you know, of all of all genders and ethnicities, I don't think there was out and out discrimination just so much as there was lack of access and lack of understanding.

Um, still very much a lack, a support for it. Lack of support. Yeah. I 

Aransas: mean, the proverbial sports bra continues across all of these. Yeah. 

Gordan: I mean, literal support was missing for women. Um, and, you know, there was still a, you know, completely [00:15:00] misguided sense of. You know, white people are more naturally gifted as distance runners and black people are more natural.

I mean, this is like, sounds sprinters ludicrous to try to explain it now because it's completely not grounded in science and you know, it's completely based on racist tropes and assumptions. Mm-hmm. That are, you know, just. Abre, you know, it's hard to even say these things now, even though I, you know, I never bought into them.

Um, that unfortunately that's, that's.

Aransas: Yes. And especially I feel like just over the last couple of years mm-hmm. There's been a louder, a louder expression of it, more open conversation about it, and therefore a greater understanding and hopefully some, it's like I'm, I'm still picturing. Joani ripping the doors open. Yeah. And you choosing to go through them.

To go through them. [00:16:00] Because having that choice, I'm sure a lot of people who didn't choose to go through them. Mm-hmm. But you couldn't have until the doors were open. Right? Right, exactly. And I think there's been an opening of the doors and now it's people. Trying to get through those doors. Mm-hmm. But it is, there's still a lot of disparity in terms of access Yeah.

Gordan: And support. Yeah. I mean, there's a story that, that Joan, um, Benoit Samuelson tells of, you know, when she first started running and she's four or five years older than I am, you know, not that much older. Mm-hmm. Um, that she would, you know, be running along a little road in rural Maine. And you know, when a car came by, she would.

Stop and pretend that she was picking flowers or picking up trash or something like that. Like she, you know, it was okay to be out there in wearing shorts or whatever, but not running as, as a high schooler, you know, young, young adult, young girl. And that's, that's something I never experienced. Um, I, again, I didn't experience discrimination, but looking back, I'm able to see, um, how, how, [00:17:00] you know, there were many, many more boys and men who ran than, than girls and women, you know, by a factor of 10 or 20 fold.

Um, and that's just the way it was. But again, nobody ever told me. You're a girl, you shouldn't run ever. You know, I just did not hear that. I was, it was encouragement, um, especially once my, my talent became, became evident. 

Aransas: And what does that ratio look like now, Gordon? 

Gordan: Oh, it's, there's, I mean, in road racing, um, you know, recreational racing, women outnumber female females out.

Uh, women outnumber men in, in road racing. Um, and it's, I think like 60%, uh, these are figures from, um, running u s A, you know, who keeps track of, of the road racing industry. You know, 60% of finishers overall at all distances are, are female. Identify as female, female, um, in the marathon. I think it's still slightly skewed toward, toward, uh, runners who identify as, as male rather than than female.

But [00:18:00] it's, it's approaching 50 50. Um, I don't know the figures for like scholastic, but you know, I, I would venture to guess. I think it's pretty safe to say that it's, it's. If not equal numbers of girls and boys in high school, um, are, are involved in running. And that wasn't the case when, when I was in high school, in college.

That's really 

Aransas: encouraging for the other doors that are being opened. 

Gordan: Yeah. Yeah. 

Aransas: We hope so. And I think you're, you and others are opening another door that we haven't even talked about, which is running competitively. A, uh, I like don't even know where to draw the line. Mm-hmm. As masters, right? Mm-hmm.

Wherever that happens, we'll say that. Yeah. I was gonna say post menopause. I was gonna say no, no, no. All 

Gordan: of the above all. Yeah. So none of those are, none of those are wrong. Yes. Yes. That's very, very exciting and that, I mean, we owe so much credit to, [00:19:00] um, you know, I, I've worked at New York Roadrunners for over 20 years and we, we really, not single-handedly, but you know, New York Roadrunners was played a huge role in that.

And specifically, um, our founder, our president, Ted Corbett. Um, just really believed in running, being a lifetime sport. Um, and, you know, not just paying lip service to that, you know, not just saying, yeah, of course, you know, you can run for your whole life. You know, setting up structures that allowed, um, and encouraged people of all ages to compete against their peers.

So, you know, age group awards, you know, that was not a thing at all until cor.

Gradually fade away after not even 40, you know, 35 was considered like, what are you still doing out here? You know, you're, you're not gonna, you know, it was sort of like, if you're not gonna get any faster, what's the point? You know, and that was, that just increased the insularity and the, you know, sort of [00:20:00] elite nature even of.

You know, so-called recreational running. And that was unfortunate, you know, because running can do, I mean, I could go on all day about the, the, you know, the benefits of running and why everyone should run, but you know, certainly, uh, yeah, getting faster, setting lifetime prs, that's very PRS is personal records, you know, the best.

The fastest you've ever run for a particular distance, um, is that's exciting. And when runners are, you know, getting started and every race is faster than the one before, that's, that's a very heady period. But for anybody that does not last forever, and you know, if that's your only motivation, um, eventually you're going to become frustrated and disappointed.

So why not set up a system where you're, you can continue to compete if that's, You choose to do and do so against your peers, your age, age graded peers, um, and, you know, have, have excitement around, um, you know, uh, competing with people [00:21:00] in, in your age bracket. And now there's a whole system of age graded.

Um, Uh, results, you know, you get a certain percentage or a percentile, um, if you achieve a certain, a certain time. So I'm, that's what keeps me motivated. Aransas: Um, what do you attribute your longevity?[00:22:00] 

As your, the speed, the longevity of your speed. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Gordan: I, I had some really, I had a, a coach who was very, very good early on. Um, when I did get involved in adult running here in, in New York City, there was a women's team called Atlan, I was recruited to, to join it after I had some good performances at the mini and other races.

And, um, [00:23:00] yeah, Bob was, you know, a really sensible coach. he said, you know, don't race too often, um, within your races and workouts don't go out too fast. Um, you know, if you feel niggles, you know, Deal with 'em before they become injuries. So I, you know, I, I really internalized all that. I 

Aransas: expect it's also because you have a natural tendency to see the positive you, you seem to be an optimist by nature.

I am, 

Gordan: but a realist as well. You know, I'm not, I mean, yeah, we all go through a stage of denial when we, when we know we're injured, you know? It's like, no, I'm not injured. It's, Just, I'm just tired. I'm just this, I'm just, that denial is definitely one of the, the stages that injured runners go through.

I had, uh, really bad plantar fasciitis in both feet for about a year. Um, and yeah, I just, I just learned that you injuries do heal, you know? Mm-hmm. Once you've gotten through the denial, you go through the stage of like, that's it. You know, my career is over, I'll never run again. Um, but that's not true.

You know? Injuries heal, the body heals, you know, we've, we've been dealing with, you know, we, we evolved as running. Um, creatures. Um, you know, and, you know, nobody ever died of plantar fasciitis, I, I'm smiling because I've just been, I'm, you can relate about plantar 

Gordan: fasciitis. Oh, we've all [00:28:00] been there. Yeah. It was 

Aransas: my longest injury ever, and it was my longest break. And the. Best thing that ever happened to my body in some ways. 

Gordan: Oh, that's good too. That's true. That, that happens. You, you redefine, you stop fighting yourself.

Yeah. At a certain point. Yeah. You know, you, you just make peace with your body and you, uh, I, I'm not trying to interpret your situation, but I found that I learned to love myself anyway. It's like I have an injured body, but I still love my body and I love myself. Yeah, it was, it was, 

Aransas: was that your experience was hard?

Yeah, it was really hard at first, of course, and I couldn't run, and I tried and I'd push it and I'd aggravate it, and I'd push it and I, right. And so I didn't have the, I didn't have other options for myself. Mm-hmm. I finally realized that I had put all of my endorphin eggs in one basket. Yeah. And so I finally set up a system of support to learn how to really [00:29:00] lift weights.

Mm. That's great. It was like a whole new world opening up. Yeah. Because I was able to discover all these different things my body could do, and so now I'm finally easing back into running with so much more joy, so much more strength, so much more agility, and I just feel like. Whoa, that had I not gotten the plantar fasciitis, I would never have left running.

I would've just kept going. Yeah. And kept trying. But this forced me into a new path that really strengthened the whole foundation. So it That's awesome. So many challenges led to something far greater. 

Gordan: Yeah. Oh, that's a really inspiring story. Aransas: Thank you. So you had to have had some moments. Mm-hmm. I just imagine a frustration along the career that you've had. Mm-hmm. [00:30:00] I mean, you talk about it's been over 30 years since you were turning in your lifetime prs. Yeah. How did you manage those moments where you're like, oh.

I'm not getting faster any longer. Mm-hmm. How did you sort of shift that in your mind to focus on what was possible in the next generation or the next Yeah. Chapter of your journey? 

Gordan: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, there's, there's several parts to that answer. Um, one is because by the time that period of my life came along, we're talking, we were in the early nineties, um, there was a.

Big supportive women's elite running community. You know, there was a real critical mass of people. And again, those pioneers that I spoke of earlier, um, particularly Greta Weiss and Joan Benoit Samuelson, I could look to them, um, and many others. Um, and see that they were slowing down too. So, you know, even though they were slowing down from, you know, a higher level than I was, I was, you know, not that far behind them. And I could see, okay, they're managing this with, with grace, with, um, and, and they're finding other ways to fulfill themselves.

So it was, it was. It was that having others that I could look to and say, yeah, it's happening to them. This isn't something that the universe is singling me out for, you know, to abuse, you know, by saying, haha, you're never gonna run fast again. Or You're never gonna be as fast in the future as you were in the past.

Um, I could see it happening and to men as well, you know, it's a universal thing. It's not, it's not unique to, to women runners. Um, so, you know, I, I felt like this is, this is what happens and you can still get after it. Um, and, [00:32:00] and so that was the second thing, that there were still many, many competitive opportunities, um, and I was able to take advantage of them.

I always enjoyed the recognition and I appreciated itbut, you know, it was, it was really sort of secondary to the feeling that I wanted in myself of, okay, I'm out there just trying my best and, you know, like blowing the cobwebs out every time I, I crossed, you know, uh, crossed a starting line and crossed a finish line.

So I was able to accept it. And then also I had gotten into coaching by that point I started dabbling with coaching in, um,

So much fulfillment from, um, coaching both individuals and, and groups and just seeing people at all different fitness levels, all different stages of their own running journey and with running, playing a different role, um, in, in their lives. You know, everyone has their own story of how running has, has impacted their life.

Um, and I just found the, that those interactions and those stories and, um, the challenge and pleasure of helping people on their journey, um, really, really engaging. So I was able to, to put more energy into that. Over the years, 

Aransas: it seems like there's a really powerful three step process in there. Mm-hmm.

Which is normalizing the shift in the transition by [00:35:00] mm-hmm. By seeing how it happens in others. Tuning into what genuinely ignites you about this process that is not sort of the external validation and reward, but that inner fire of clearing the cobwebs and the feeling that comes with running and, and paying attention to that, and then turning your attention to others.

Mm-hmm. And to using your own experience to. Have impact. Mm-hmm. And when I talk to Uplifters, and at this point, uh, and I've shared this in other episodes, I've, I've surveyed thousands of uplifters about what it means to live up. And it always boils down to those three things. It says, be well, we connect deeply, we leave a positive impact.

And I hear so much of that really in, in your process for coming to a place of acceptance for this very [00:36:00] natural. Progression in your journey. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think so, so often where we get stuck is we, we hold onto what was to the feeling of, well, in the past it looked like and felt like this. Oh yeah.

So much. 

Gordan: Yeah. 

Aransas: And no thank you. You really ease through to ah, this is what's here for me now. Right. 

Gordan: Yeah. It's funny. Thank you so much for articulating that. 'cause I, I never. Articulated it until this moment as a, a three step process, but it, it really is. Um, and it's just sort of a marvel to me to look back on my relationship with running over the years, um, and feel how different it is now from 40 years ago, you know, when I was first getting started and, um, To, you know, I just feel like I was, I was so selfish.

I was so, you know, I mean, and, and part of that is just [00:37:00] aging. You know, you, uh, you know, during this time I also had children and, you know, I lost my parents. And you just see that life is bigger than, you know, whether you break 33 minutes in the 10 k, you so much bigger than that. Um, Yeah, your, your whole perspective just, just broadens and deepens.

But Yeah. You know, and, and, and so yeah, there is, there is an arc to it and there is a process to it, even if I didn't fully realize that at, at the time. Um, and in many ways I'm, I'm happier now as a runner. I'm so much slower, but much, much more in tune. I'm in tune with my body. I'm in tune with my psyche.

And just that, that sharing and giving back, um, is, is more fulfilling than I ever could have imagined. You know, I could not have imagined any of that when I, when I first stepped into running at all and [00:38:00] then stepped into competitive running. But here, here we are. Here we are. 

Aransas: Yeah. It's, and I know now it's miraculous.

You are focused on coaching mostly women over 40. I am. Yeah. How do you. Guide them. Yeah. What do they, what do they most need from you? 

Gordan: Uh, well, how, how I guide them is, um, any runner, you know, but, but especially women, 40 and over. I feel like we, we just need to listen to each other. Um, so it's just, yeah, listening without judgment. Um, And yeah, just, you know, being, being a support. Um, a lot of people at all levels need to be told what not to do. You know, it's like, mm-hmm. You just ran a really hard race. Do not go out and do another workout the next day. Oh, but I feel so great. We're like, no, no, no, no, no.

Just rest. You know, take a walk, do some yoga, maybe, you know, go for a swim, but don't go out and do a hard workout. And that's, that's again, as I said, at at all levels. You know, certainly the, the best runners in the world are known for, you know, they, their coaches just say, my job with this person is to make sure they don't literally run themselves into the ground.

Yeah. I was once told that the best way to find the right therapist is to find the one who can really listen to you. Mm-hmm. [00:42:00] And I think that's true for all of the people who, who we hire. I think so to support us. Mm-hmm. So to find the coach, the trainer, the therapist, the doctor who you feel can hear you.

Yeah. 'cause not everyone is able to do that. Some people are so, um, focused on their expertise or their assumptions that they can't really hear you. And I think what you're describing is just such a. It's the essence of you, and it's why people describe you as being so kind and generous. Mm-hmm. You've shown them that through listening and hearing.

Gordan: Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's true what you, what you say. I also think that sometimes as a coach or you know, an expert in any field, we think that what people are looking for is expertise. And they are, you know, [00:43:00] you wouldn't want someone to perform heart surgery on you that wasn't an expert heart surgeon.

Um, you know, and you know, In a sort of different realm, you wouldn't want someone to coach you to run a fast marathon who had never had success in the marathon. Um, but coaches can't fix everything. Um, and, and also I. It's, it has to be within the runner. You know, the runner has to have the, the desire, the motivation, um, and the ability to, to achieve what, what they are dreaming of.

Um, and so the, the coach is, is a facilitator of that. Um, but the coach, even the most expert coach in the world, can't solve every problem that the runner is going to encounter along the way. I think this idea [00:45:00] of coaching with acceptance mm-hmm.

Is something that cultivates acceptance in the athlete or the person being coached. And I think so too. To me, that is my observation about racing. Having been at this for 20 years and spent a lot of time with a lot of runners, there are a lot of people who train really well. Mm-hmm. And they are so fast and so free in training, and then they get to race day and consistently don't turn out.

Races mm-hmm. That are aligned with their training. And my belief is that in racing people, Get into a sense of fear. And I've certainly experienced fear in races. Mm-hmm. And we start to think about all the things that could go wrong. Mm-hmm. And I remember very vividly, the marathon I trained for with you, there was a train track that crossed the course.

I remember that I [00:46:00] became obsessed with the possibility of this train crossing my path. Yeah. And so it was, it was mentally, It was draining, but physically it was draining because I was releasing all these fear hormones mm-hmm. Into my body. And there's nothing that creates exhaustion faster. Right. And so for me, the, when things really turned around, it was when I.

Decided to run with just full joy and acceptance of what is. Mm-hmm. That's great. And the second I started to do that's racing became so pleasurable and I raced way faster than I trained. Right. Which is what we want. Right. That's, that's a good 

Gordan: story because that was, that was inside you all along that ability to do that.

I was holding me back. Yeah. You were holding yourself back. Yeah, because, yeah, it, and, and even as you say physically, because you know, on race day, it's like, oh, I wanna speed up, so I, you know, beat the train. Catch up. [00:47:00] Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's hard. It's hard. I get into my whole, you know, marathons are like life, because it's hard not to live your life in fear sometimes, you know, because there's so many things can go wrong, but, um, yeah, if you just try to live as joyfully as you can, um, you know, and, and in, in expectation that, that, um, you know, things are gonna happen.

Yes, things are absolutely gonna happen, and, and you're wrong. Have. Messed up your race, but would you have had the ability, any control to, to no control? No. But you would've dealt with it, you know? Yes. You know, you would've just gotten to the train tracks, waited for the train to go by. Then continued on with your race.

Mm-hmm. And who knows, that's what would've 

Aransas: happened. It could've helped. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It was certainly more helpful than [00:48:00] flooding my system with stress and 

Gordan: fear. With stress. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So true. So, yeah, just, yeah, if I can, if I can impart that to people that, look, things are gonna go, are gonna happen on race day.

You've prepared for and things are gonna happen probably that you haven't prepared for. You know, you could fall, you could miss a water station, it, there could be a thunderstorm. Um, you could pee your pants. I mean, anything could happen. You know, things that, I mean, I think I've done all of those. I certainly have, but you'll deal with it.

You know, you'll, whatever happens. And that's true in life as well. You know, our kids could fail a test or not get into the right college or, you know, lose their job or whatever. Um, and light 

Aransas: goes on. We'll deal with it. Yeah, you'll deal with it. You'll learn. Yeah. Yeah. What wisdom at Gordon? Um, As I said, I have asked a lot of folks, um, what it means to live up, and I wanted to ask you mm-hmm.

Those three [00:49:00] questions. What, what do you do in addition to running mm-hmm. To care for your wellbeing?

Gordan: Lots of things and, and more and more over time. I mean, that's again, another thing that my early days. In life and in running. I, I didn't do enough of, um, I just have always had incredible endurance and, you know, have just plowed through. Um, and I, I am more cognizant now that that's, That's always sustainable or healthy or the right thing to do.

So I build in relaxation. Um, I try just little things like I try to walk home every day, you know, as long as the weather's good, and really use that time to decompress. Um, To just kind of do nothing other than than walk. Um, sometimes I'll listen to a podcast yay, or music or something, but sometimes I'll just be and just be me [00:50:00] walking through Riverside Park.

Very, very lucky again that I live in a place where I can do this, where it's safe, you know where I feel. Um, you know, what we, what we take as nature in, I feel, you know, I, I have access to beautiful spaces, so I do that. Um, I nurture relationships, especially with my husband. Um, we've been married for 27 years and, you know,  .

And the, my greatest source of, of support and, uh, and love and other relationships, how do I, how do, do. Stay connected. Um, my relationships with my siblings, um, and, and friendships. Um, I'm very blessed to have a group of, uh, friends I've known since high school and, um, as a pandemic gift.

We really, we all reconnected in the spring of 2020 and we've been doing a weekly Zoom call ever since. There's 10 of us, not all 10 of us get on the call every week, but it's, um, just, it's always there. You know, we, we, we stay connected through that and, um, really support each other. We laugh together, we dance, we, it's, it's incredible.

Um, there's that, um, and, and then running, you know, running is. Um, is a huge, you know, and then, you know, running that doesn't involve speed work or racing or coaching. Just, you know, running as, as therapy. Um, my faith is really important to me. So those are the main practices for me. 

Aransas: What do you hope your legacy will be, Gordon? 

Gordan: Oh.

I [00:53:00] really, I really want, what I want is everyone who chooses to, to be able to, um, realize the benefits of running whatever running means for them. Um, I, I see myself as a lifetime runner, but that doesn't mean that my running will always look like it looks today. Um, you know, putting on a singlet in shorts and running shoes and, um, Going out and moving, moving through space.

That's how it looks now. I'm still, you know, taking one foot off the ground at a time. But yeah, my running could evolve into something a lot slower, a lot less frequent. Um, and, you know, maybe more of a, a walk. What would look more like a walking practice? Um, yeah, I just wanna continue to create a world where everyone has that opportunity.

You know, regardless of skin color or um, body type or gender, gender expression. Um, and, you know, where everyone feels welcome. Um, [00:54:00] you know, it's, it's easy to say running is for everybody and runners have always said that, or, you know, I've always, I've, the running community that I've been a part of has always said that, but it's, it's a different thing to actually welcome, um, all different mm-hmm.

All different people into the running space. So I hope that's part of my legacy that I've, that I've made running as, as inclusive and accessible. As it can possibly be.

Aransas: Well, I know there is one and mm-hmm. I am one of the many, many, many beneficiaries of it. Thank you for your time today, and thank you even more so for all of you, all you have done for women runners, runners in second half of life, and people thank you.

Been such a great conversation. For all of you listening, thank you as well for all that you do from [00:56:00] this conversation. I hope you find some little reminder to take care of yourself as well as you take care of everyone else. I'll see you [email protected], where you'll find more about Gordon, as well as lots of other Uplifters, along with research tips and ideas for living your best life.

Let's keep rising higher together.

Gordon Bakoulis, Editorial Director of New York Road Runners, qualified for the U.S. Olympic marathon trials in 1988, 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004 and was a finalist in the 1992 U.S. Olympic 10,000m trials. She has represented the U.S. internationally at the 10K, half-marathon, and marathon distances.

When she started running in the mid-1970’s, there were very few women who could keep up with her pace, and even fewer whom she could look up to, but her pure love for the sport, the running community, and the success she discovered, lifted her up (even if the crude sports bras didn’t). 

At age 62, Gordon's focus as a runner has shifted to health and longevity; however, she still loves chasing fast age-graded times and going head-to-head with her rivals. She coaches other women to find the joy and freedom of running, and is a fierce advocate for access and equity in running.

In this episode you’ll learn:

[00:29:00] How to find peace and strength in the inevitability of aging and injury.

[00:33:00] How to tune in to what ignites your passion

[00:35:00] How to understand your personal impact

[00:47:00] How to recognize what is inside you that is holding you back

Subscribe to our show at www.theuplifterspodcast.com for lots of free resources, newsletters, and more, for and by Uplifters.

Jen Liddy felt like she wasn’t making the impact she wanted to make as a teacher.  The students weren’t engaged and the administrative work was tedious and exhausting.  But the voice in her head in the shower every morning, asking if she should just cancel class for the day, just couldn’t be ignored any longer.  She had a lot invested in her teaching job (her lesson plans, her retirement, her two master’s degrees) and part of her wondered if all of that was ever going to be of any use again.

Ten years later, she has put all that she invested in her former career, and her natural skills, to use teaching experts how to harness their brilliance and their language so that their audience can hear them.  These people want to be in the room with her and want to grow their audience online.  This new career is everything she ever could have wished for about teaching.

She finally learned to stop downplaying and devaluing what came easy to her and learned to think of it as her magic instead.

In this episode you’ll learn:

How to be open to opportunity even though you may feel you are not qualified to take advantage of it.  You can always learn new skills.

How to ask yourself if what you’re doing feels good to you

How to stop putting yourself second, third, or fourth

Jen was nominated for The Uplifters by Julie B. Hughes from episode Episode 6

Learn more about the wonderful Jen at: https://www.jenliddy.com/

Subscribe to our show at www.theuplifterspodcast.com for lots of free resources, newsletters, and more, for and by Uplifters.