There’s a moment in Roman Krznaric’s The Good Ancestor when he invites us to imagine the builders of medieval cathedrals: craftspeople who chiseled stone, hoisted beams, and shaped stained glass with the knowing certainty that they would never worship inside the completed structure. They worked not for immediate applause but for the generations they would never meet. Their legacy lived in the shadows cast by soaring buttresses, in the echoes of future choirs, in the possibility that one day, long after they were gone, someone would look up and feel awe. Krznaric calls this cathedral thinking: a way of acting that stretches our sense of responsibility far beyond the boundaries of our own lifetimes. It’s the discipline of slowing down enough to ask, “How will what I’m doing today ripple outward? What future am I shaping with the choices I make right now?” It’s a call to be not just good professionals or good leaders, but good ancestors. In education, this idea lands with particular force. So much of the work of learning—and of transforming systems of learning—has a delayed return on investment. Policies outlast policymakers. Classroom moments echo decades later in a student’s life. Innovations begun in one community can reshape what’s possible for learners across an entire generation. And the most courageous educators I know operate with an awareness that they are, in fact, building cathedrals: structures of opportunity, belonging, confidence, and human potential. That’s why, in my intake form, I ask a question about ancestor-work. I’m curious about the projects, commitments, or quiet acts of devotion that feel like cornerstones, things my guests are building that may not be fully realized until long after they’ve stepped away. And for this remix episode, I went back to six former guests who responded to that prompt with uncommon clarity, humility, and hope. Their answers were not just descriptions of work; they were expressions of purpose, of stewardship, of long-view leadership. What you’ll hear in the next hour is a mosaic of cathedral thinkers. People who are shaping systems and communities not for personal credit, but for the learners who will come long after any of us. Their voices remind us that the real measure of impact is time, not quarters, not school years, but generations. So if you are ready, I am ready. And if you have insights or questions, email me at [email protected], which is my podcast contact. As always, my gratitude to Mel Ching, the co-producer of these remixed episodes, Evan Kurohara, my talented editor, and Michael Sloan, the pianist whose music graces this show.

If you navigate to WhatSchoolCouldBe.org, you will find in the nav bar the words, The Innovation Playlist. What is this? The Innovation Playlist is a powerful change model based on small steps that elevate learning and life outcomes. It brings your community together to build consensus on your North Star. It trusts teachers to lead the way, build on successes, draw on best practices, and do what you take joy in, challenging your students in creative, distinctive ways that prepare them for life. One of the playlists is called student-driven learning. Imagine your children, your students, fueled by intrinsic curiosity and motivation, enthusiastically learning without your constant oversight? Student-driven learning gives educators the time to truly guide, inspire, and encourage deeper learning. When we empower students to do bold, creative work, they develop distinctive higher-order competencies. Yet, creative work demands different, more authentic assessments. In this 3rd 2025 remix my co-producer, Mel Ching and I focus on the voices of students I interviewed over the past few years. These are young learners who have struggled in traditional learning environments, but thrived when immersed in student-driven learning and the quest to be assessed deeply, and authentically. These are young people who refuse to be sorted and ranked by standardized test scores. They live and breathe relevant, authentic learning spaces, both inside and outside of this thing we call school. So if you are ready, I am ready. As always, if you have insights or questions, email me at [email protected], which is my podcast contact. The What School Could Be Podcast is edited by the very talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes of the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

If you navigate to WhatSchoolCouldBe.org, you will find in the nav bar the words, The Innovation Playlist. What is this? The Innovation Playlist is a powerful change model based on small steps that elevate learning and life outcomes. It brings your community together to build consensus on your North Star. It trusts teachers to lead the way, build on successes, draw on best practices, and do what you take joy in, challenging your students in creative, distinctive ways that prepare them for life. One of the playlists is called Caring and Connected Communities. What is this concept? In normal times, students can’t learn effectively without social and emotional support. During the COVID 19 pandemic, this support was imperative. Here is 2025, with the United States experiencing intense turmoil, the need for caring and connected communities is even more acute. Yet too often, social and emotional priorities get lost in the blur of curriculum, test scores, out-competing classmates, and being judged against standards of perfection. We can and must do better. In this episode, we hear segments from previous conversations that feature guests who live and breathe the concept of caring and connected communities. There are six segments in this episode and I will provide a short introduction to each one. So if you are ready, I am ready. And if you have insights or questions, email me at [email protected], which is my podcast contact. As always, editing is provided by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Before I deliver my introduction to this episode, I want to acknowledge my co-creator and inspiration for what you are about to hear today. Her name is Mel Ching and she is amazing. Director of Community Engagement for What School Could Be and producer/host of our YouTube live series, "The Big Think," Mel and I have been co-creating on projects for almost four years. Thank you, Mel. 

Okay, listeners, if you navigate to WhatSchoolCouldBe.org, you will find in the nav bar the words, The Innovation Playlist. What is this? The Innovation Playlist is a powerful change model based on small steps that elevate learning and life outcomes. It brings your community together to build consensus on your North Star. It trusts teachers to lead the way, build on successes, draw on best practices, and do what you take joy in: challenging your students in creative, distinctive ways that prepare them for life.

One of the playlists is called Real World Challenges. What is it? Imagine an educational landscape where students are not merely recipients of knowledge, but passionate investigators delving into the depths of authentic, engaging, and intricate questions, problems, and challenges. When you incorporate Real-World Challenges into your curriculum, students are empowered to actively engage with real-world complexities, become critical thinkers, problem solvers, and innovators. These students don’t just absorb information; they apply their learning in impactful ways and have the opportunity to make a tangible difference in the world around them, whether at an individual, community or organizational level.

In this episode, we hear segments from previous conversations that feature guests who live and breathe the concept of real-world challenges. There are five segments in this episode and I will provide a short introduction to each one. So if you are ready, I am ready. And if you have insights or questions, email me at [email protected], which is my podcast contact. As always editing is provided by the very talented Evan Kurohara.

Dr. Carole Basile is the Dean and a professor at Arizona State University’s Mary Lou Fulton College for Teaching and Learning Innovation, the largest college of education in the nation. Since 2016, she has led efforts to redesign the educator workforce through team-based models that honor learner variance and expand the possibilities of teaching. Before ASU, she served as Dean of the College of Education at the University of Missouri–St. Louis, and held faculty and leadership positions at the University of Colorado Denver and the University of Houston. Carole is co-author of The Next Education Workforce: How Team-Based Staffing Models Can Support Equity and Improve Learning Outcomes, and has published widely on teacher preparation, systems change, and school–community partnerships. With a career that also includes 15 years in business management and organizational development, she brings a rare blend of entrepreneurial spirit and educational vision .

Erin O’Reilly at the University of Montana, a previous podcast guest, wrote the following about Carole for this episode. “Her work in reimagining the teacher workforce is truly inspiring. Through innovative, team-based teaching models, she and her team are not only transforming how schools operate but also reshaping the future of education. As a teacher educator and researcher, I’ve been deeply influenced by her vision and dedication. Witnessing the tangible impact on teacher retention and job satisfaction has given me renewed hope and affirmation in my own work designing systems and curriculum to better support aspiring educators.”

So listeners, let’s get to know Carole before we dive into the deep end of education, teaching in teams, and teacher training pathways. We start with music. Carole has been listening to A History of Rock in 500 Songs. It’s not just about riffs or hit singles—it’s about rock as a cultural movement, full of experimentation, disruption, and variance. When she listens, is she a fan? A learner? A dean leading one of the largest colleges of education in the country? Likely all of the above.

Then we rewind to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, where school came easily but wasn’t especially engaging. Her entrepreneurial father shaped her worldview—teaching her to manage people well and stay open to ideas. His influence still guides her leadership.

Carole’s career is anything but conventional: student teaching in Philadelphia, a master’s in counseling, 15 years in business, then a doctorate that brought her back to education. Along the way, a boss once told her being interested in “a lot of things” was a flaw. But David Epstein’s Range would disagree—and Carole’s life proves it.

From there, we’ll talk about variance. Not just as a math term or biblical one, but as a philosophy of education: every learner moves at their own pace, in their own way. ASU’s Next Education Workforce is putting that into practice—moving beyond the “one teacher, one classroom” model to teams of educators who bring diverse strengths.

We’ll also touch on ideas like “loonshots” and “possibility thinking,” and ask Carole to paint a picture of what team-based classrooms feel like—for students, teachers, and families. And we’ll close with a shout out to those whose shoulders she stands on.

So buckle up. From Jefferson Airplane to Jefferson County, from Harrisburg to Arizona, this conversation is about rock and roll, variance, teaching in teams, and the future of education itself.

Post production editing provided by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is by pianist, Michael Sloan.

Listeners, if you are inclined to go to the Red Bridge school website, which I hope you are, and you click on Our Team in the NAV bar, you will find the following bio for Orly Friedman, Red Bridge’s founder: “When I began teaching in 2007, I wanted to expand real opportunity for kids, and since then both opportunity—and the skills to seize it—have shifted; technology lets more people create and connect, but it only matters when learners have the know-how and confidence to use it—that is, agency. Agency sits at the heart of Red Bridge: while traditional schools reward compliance, we reward initiative. Students don’t just receive information—they drive their own learning—and they show up eager, day after day. Designing for agency means reworking school systems and structures; the experience won’t mirror your K–8 memories, yet the essentials remain: caring teachers, hands-on projects, academic challenge, and the joys every child loves—field trips, the Halloween parade, and more. Our tactics are fresh, but our values are rooted in a long line of progressive educators—John Dewey, Maria Montessori, and Deborah Meier—and in the last fifty years of cognitive science and psychology, translated daily by a skilled team.” I will note here that before launching Red Bridge, Orly was an Entrepreneur-in-Residence with Transcend. She was a founding team member at the Khan Lab School and has degrees from Yale University, George Mason University and the Stanford Graduate School of Business. Mason Pashia, the producer of Getting Smart’s podcasts and page editor and producer for Getting Smart’s blogs (and by the way, I recommend reading everything and listening to everything that comes from Getting Smart), wrote the following for this episode: “When you step inside Red Bridge, a San Francisco-based K-8 microschool, you immediately recognize that you're in a place that LOVES learning. Imagine kindergarteners with the agency to shape their own days and their own curiosities. Picture a curriculum built around 'noticing'—empowering students to connect, find and solve problems in their community. Red Bridge is a place where personalized, competency-based and high-agency learning is so much more than a soup of buzzwords; it's a daily practice that's nurturing a new generation of changemakers. Schools like Red Bridge are signals from the future, showing us not only what school could be, but what school can be.” And finally, here is an excerpt from a letter written by a former student of Orly’s, before she founded Red Bridge, that I think is so beautiful: “Hi Ms. Friedman, I hope you're doing well! I wanted to reach out and thank you for being such an amazing third-grade teacher at Murch all those years ago, and to let you know that I'm now becoming a teacher. I'll be teaching fourth grade in Aurora, Colorado, and school starts next week (ahhhhh!). I wrote about your class (featuring the green pouf) on my application for Teach for America, and I'm planning to have a Funky-Monkey-style shared writing project in my class as well. I just wanted to send a quick note before the year starts to say thank you for being an inspiration to me. I would also appreciate any first-year-teacher tips you might have! Thanks for everything, Olivia.” Our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

For this 150th celebration my guest on the 101st episode, Emma Reppun (married and now Emma Jean George) and I decided she would interview me. Fun! The following is how she described, on LinkedIn, the episode and her experience being the host of the show. "Today I had the immense honor and privilege of interviewing my dad, Josh Reppun, the Executive Director of What School Could Be, for this 150th 'Talk Story' edition of the What School Could Be Podcast. If you've ever tuned into his show, you know that my pop is a master of crafting thoughtful questions based on an incredible amount of research for each and every guest he sits down with. As someone who has never been in the host chair before, it was a formative experience for me to attempt to offer him the same level of structured inquiry, while balancing my giddy delight as his daughter to be behind the mic! As this day comes to a close, and I marvel at what a meaningful opportunity this has been, I want to say a wholehearted mahalo to all the previous guests on the pod; it was you who helped me shape and craft my approach as I listened and re-listened to your amazing conversations in preparation for this moment. And a special shout out and thanks to Parul Punjabi Jagdish, Jennifer Ahn, Steven Shapiro, Nancy Shapiro Rapport, and Roman Krznaric, whose episodes sparked some of my favorite questions. And lastly, but certainly not least, my hat is off to you Ted Dintersmith, the executive producer of the acclaimed film, Most Likely to Succeed and the catalytic driving force that launched my beloved father into the happiest and most fulfilling years of his life." Our episodes are edited by the peerless, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by the master pianist, Michael Sloan.

INSTALL THE OUR FAMILY CULTURE APP FROM YOUR FAVORITE APP STORE AND USE THE PROMO CODE: WSCB.

Today my guests are Steve Shapiro and his sister, Nancy Rapport, veteran educators in the Great State of Ohio.

During his 34 years as a public-school educator, Steven Shapiro emerged as a national thought leader in experiential learning. His acclaimed podcast, Experience Matters, featured national experts including Daniel Pink, Tony Wagner, and Father Greg Boyle. In addition to his work as a high school teacher/program director/district leader, Steve trained teachers at Ohio State University, provided professional learning for educators in emerging democracies (including Poland, Ukraine, and South Africa), and was a regular keynote and conference speaker. At all stages of his career, he has been committed to designing powerful experiential learning opportunities that transformed the lives of students and teachers alike. Steve’s most important work, however, was partnering with his wife Susan to raise their three (now adult) children.

Nancy Rapport spent the majority of her 34-year public-education career as a school counselor, supporting students and parents in navigating the challenging “middle years.” Her leadership roles in professional development and crisis management showcased her ability to identify needs, empathize with various stakeholders, and deliver results. As a certified Hudson Institute coach, Nancy has extensive training in coaching and human development. She leads courses on learner mindset and question thinking for the Inquiry Institute, helping adults pursue a life of curiosity, inquiry, and possibility. Nancy brings a wealth of experience in both child and adult learning to her role as co-founder, with Steve, her brother, of Our Family Culture. Most importantly, she is the proud parent of two adult children, Emily and Jacob.

Dr. Michelle Pledger is the Founder of Living for Liberation and Director of Liberation at the High Tech High Graduate School of Education, where she leads work at the intersection of equity, community, and student-centered learning. A nationally recognized educator, author, and freedom facilitator, Michelle has spent her career helping schools and systems reimagine learning as a liberatory act. She also serves on the advisory board for Our Family Culture, and knows Steve and Nancy well. She wrote the following just for this episode: Steve Shapiro is one of the most humble, helpful, human-centered people I have ever met. We first met during a podcast interview and became instant friends. He speaks truth in love and is intentional in his actions. More importantly, he has a heart for young people and their families. And all of that goodness must run in the family because his sister, Nancy is a treasure trove of empathy, humor and patience. And I trust anyone who is willing to Karaoke with me, no questions asked! I'm thrilled that the What School Could Be community will benefit from Steve and Nancy’s lived experience as educators, parents, and co-founders of Our Family Culture.

Our episodes are edited by the peerless, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by the master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Listeners, imagine waking up to a school day with no bells, no rows of desks, no rigid timetable of subjects broken into 50-minute chunks. Instead, you open your laptop or step into a learning space that feels more like a studio, a lab, or a mission control center than a traditional classroom. Your day begins by checking in with your learning coach, not to be told what to memorize, but to map out the goals you set for yourself, goals tied to real-world challenges, not just assignments. Maybe you’ll spend the morning collaborating with peers from five continents on a project to design an accessible renewable energy solution for a community you’ve interviewed over video calls. After a break, you join a live session with an astrophysicist or a social entrepreneur—an expert whose job it is not to lecture, but to provoke questions and offer guidance. In the afternoon, you dive into a self-directed sprint: researching, prototyping, refining. You’ll log reflections, track your growth across competencies, and connect your work to global sustainable development goals. And all along the way, you’ll be developing not just knowledge, but the habits of curiosity, collaboration, and self-direction that define lifelong learners. This is a glimpse into the School of Humanity, an ambitious experiment in reimagining what learning can look like when it’s no longer bound by the old industrial model. My guest today, Raya Bidshahri, is its founder and CEO. Drawing on her background in neuroscience, her passion for human flourishing, and her conviction that education must be designed for the future—not the past—Raya has built a model that blends purpose, agency, and global connection. In this conversation, we explore what it takes to create a learning ecosystem that feels alive, human-centered, and relevant—and why she believes every learner deserves the chance to be the architect of their own education.

Raya is an award-winning serial education entrepreneur. She is passionate about utilizing education as a tool for sustainable development and human progress. She has expansive experience in designing, facilitating and scaling innovative education programs. Among many other awards, Raya is listed by the BBC as one of the most inspiring and influential women on Planet Earth. As always our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is by the master pianist, Michael Sloan. (NOTE: This episode was inspired by my viewing of the incredible PBS series, A Short History of the Future.)

No joke, listeners—today’s guest, Erin O’Reilly, grew up in Missoula, Montana and attended Mount Jumbo Elementary, Rattlesnake Middle, and Hellgate High. Hashtag best school names, ever. And now, full circle, Erin is shaping the future of education from right there in the heart of Big Sky Country. 

At the University of Montana Erin is an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Department of Teaching and Learning where she prepares preservice teachers through courses like Ethics and Policy Issues, Educational Psychology, Social Studies Methods, and field experience seminars. She is also an Instructor for the Office of Student Success and TRiO teaching courses like You at UM - First Year seminar and College and Career Success, supporting students transitioning into college and leaving with their degree.

She’s also a doctoral candidate pursuing her doctorate in Teaching and Learning.

What brought Erin to this podcast, though, is her growing body of work around teaching in teams—a practice she’s researching, writing about, and living through a book she co-authored titled “team ED”. She’s posing powerful questions about how collaborative teaching models can strengthen schools, support teachers, and—maybe—keep more of them in the profession, which, by the way, will be the subject of her dissertation. 

In the classroom, Erin mentors and supports future educators, helping them prepare not just for their first field placement, but for the real, messy, beautiful work of teaching. Her vision is bold, meaning learning that is inclusive, personalized, and rooted in community. She’s helping to build ecosystems where innovation, equity, and shared practice can thrive.

In preparing for this conversation, I read through several letters written on Erin’s behalf. One described her as “a reliable colleague known for her focus on preparing strong and adaptable classroom teachers.” Another spoke to “the creativity she pours into her preparation,” her ability to “create thoughtful and caring learning environments while also adhering to rigorous goals,” and her work to “address individual differences and reach diverse learners.” Another letter called out the “virtual library” she built for her students—complete with a personal avatar and curated DEI-aligned resources—as a reflection of her thoughtful innovation. Another letter noted, simply and powerfully: “She cares deeply about making the world a better place through education.” But the line that lingered with me was this: “She is highly professional in all her endeavors, and her work is invaluable to our department.” High praise indeed. 

Nick Salmon, one of Erin’s co-authors wrote the following for this episode: “When I first met Erin ten years ago, I knew she saw the future of learning differently. In a room of men talking about the bureaucracy of school, Erin was the only woman talking about the integration of technology, resilience, and integrated learning experiences. That first encounter led to collaborating on the educational vision of a small school, and then our article on furniture whispering. When the opportunity to create the book teamED emerged, Erin O’Reilly and Mar Cano were the obvious co-authors.” 

And finally there was this—from one of Erin’s students:

“You’ve truly been an inspiration in my life and helped me feel human and worthy when I didn’t. I’ve had more than one bump in my journey to become a teacher, and all of the understanding, warm welcomes, and support helped me more than you know.”

Our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of master pianist, Michael Sloan.