Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at [email protected]

 

S2E30 TRANSCRIPT:

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Mark: Welcome back to the wonder science-based paganism. I'm your host Mark.

Yucca: And I'm Yucca.

Mark: And today we're going to talk about re-enchantment of the world. Of the, the story of our lives. And this is a little complicated. So we're going to describe kind of what the problem is first and then talk about approaches for making that better and why we would choose to do that. 

Yucca: Yes. And there's a lot of layers to this. So we'll try and get into that from the different directions. 

Mark: Yes. One of the things that makes this a little bit challenging to talk about is that we are so accustomed to the way our mainstream culture approaches living That it's hard for us even to imagine that there are other ways to do it. It's sort of this thing that's kind of almost out of your reach and you sort of grasp for it.

And, and we have some examples that'll sort of concretize that for you going forward. But but first let's talk about why, what is this and, and why is it a problem?

Yucca: Yeah, well, we started young. Many of you probably can remember being told as a child. Well, when you get to the real world, Things aren't fun anymore. You think, you know, things are rainbows and butterflies or whatever it is that you were into. Well, that's not like it in the real world. It doesn't matter in the real world, this world of, of taking everything super seriously and doing things that you don't want and kind of the idea that everything sucks.

That was, you know, and I, my parents weren't perfect. Harsh on that, but that was the message that came from everywhere. 

Mark: Sure. Sure. It's important for us to recognize that that's not just a matter of growing up and putting away childish things, although that is, you know, that's, that's in the Bible, they tell you to do that. And and that certainly is a big part of this, but until the Protestant reformation. A lot of this was not true.

I mean, when you, when you look at the written histories under the Roman Catholic church, throughout the middle ages, into the early Renaissance people's descriptions of the life around them was very mystical. They had demons and, and spirits and You know, mystical creatures and, and there are a lot, there's lots of debate about what that actually means, but those people clearly lived in a world that they believed was populated by a lot of, kind of amazing and fantastical stuff.

Yucca: Or at least they saw more personality and things that today we might just ignore, pass off. 

Mark: Yes. 

Yucca: Right there. There, there might be more. Anthropomorphizing of experiences and, and phenomenon like wind or things like that. 

Mark: Sure and events, you know, if you prayed to a particular Saint for a particular thing and it happened well, then there was this mystical component of the world that was causing these, these kind of amazing things. And we're not by any means suggesting that we fall into. You know, and irrational superstition where we're a science-based pagan podcast.

Right. But that doesn't mean that the magical quality of life can't be cultivated and use to sort of reinvigorate our understanding of the enchantment of what it means to be alive. Under the. of Protestant framework that dominates certainly the United States and I, I think many other parts of the English speaking world.

Fun is something that is viewed with deep suspicion. The, you know, the, I don't remember who it was, who said it, it might've been Churchill, but he said something about Protestantism being informed by the deep suspicion that someone somewhere may be having a good time. 

Yucca: Shame on them for that, 

Mark: Shame on them for that, what frivolity and you know, what they should be doing is putting their nose to the grindstone and, you know, working hard for the glory of God.

So. When we were talking before we started recording, wh

Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at [email protected]

 

S2E29 TRANSCRIPT:

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body

Yucca: Welcome back to the wonder science-based paganism. I'm one of your hosts Yucca. 

Mark: And I'm the other one, Mark.

Yucca: And today we are talking about the body, our bodies, what bodies are our relationship to them and how that ties into our. 

Mark: Right. One of the things that is often used as a, a distinction between paganism and many of the other larger religions is that we are an embodied religion. We are about the, the, the materiality of earth and ourselves and the, the biotic kingdom, all of which is physical. It's all, it's all made up of material stuff.

Yucca: Yep. And most of us aren't trying to ascend to a higher plane or any of that kind of stuff. 

Mark: Well, there are a lot of people in the pagan community who, for example believe in a soul or a spirit. And they, they believe that that may carry on through a reincarnation process or something like that as non theists, pagans, we, and science-based pagans. We don't really buy that. We don't see any evidence.

What we see evidence for is that there is no distinction between the body and the self or the mind we are thinking meat. And it's the meat that does the thinking. So our bodies are ourselves. And in order to, to fully live in the experience of being human in this world, we have to embrace the physicality of ourselves and not think of that as distinct or separate from the real self that the over culture tells us is like some ghost in the machine.

Yucca: Yeah.

and, and this can be tricky because we were just, before hitting the record, we were talking about how so much of our language is shaped by the cultures that we are around and the religions that influence the larger culture. And so we'll often end up using. Words and expressions that don't reflect what we really believe like, oh, well this is the body I'm in, Right,

That expression would implies that the eye is separate from this body. And that I'm just in it. Like you were saying, the ghost in the machine that of just driving this body around rather than seeing wait, this body is. Me, my mind is 

Mark: Yeah. 

Yucca: an expression it's created from it's it's emergent from this body 

Mark: Right, 

Yucca: and it's not a different thing.

It's part of it. 

Mark: right.

Right, There are, there are technical terms for those two different worldviews and they are dualism and monism and dualism was advanced as a model. I mean, it's been believed for many, many centuries. It philosophically, it was advanced as a model by Rene cart with his famous, I think therefore I am he was willing to extend that the fact that he was thinking meant that he had existence, but he wasn't willing to go quite so far as to say that his body was a part of that thinking process which we have since learned it is.

It is indeed to the degree that we now are able to identify particular little synopsis that encode particular meanings for us particular words. 

Yucca: Mm. 

Mark: It's not a precise process by any means, but there has been enough research to demonstrate that the thinking is, as you said, an emergent property of the brain and of the nervous system.

And what that means is that we are our bodies. The sum total of everything we are is our bodies. 

Yucca: Mm. 

Mark: That, that is a view called monism, which as opposed to dualism, which is the idea that the body and the mind, or spirit or soul or something are separate and that one could exist without the other. And as you say, we use so much language even to say my body.

Makes no sense because really what we should be saying is I, I do this, you know, I, I kicked my legs. I I don't respond well to a bell peppers. I need insulin whatever, whatever it is. It's not my body needs this. It's I need this because there's no difference between the self and the body. And this is important.

It's not just important from the philosophical standp

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S2E28 TRANSCRIPT:

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Mark: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-based Paganism. My name's Mark. 

Yucca: and I'm Yucca.

Mark: And today we're going to talk about the August Sabbath, the midpoint between the summer solstice and the autumnal Equinox, which is celebrated by many pagans as one of the eight stations on the wheel of the year. 

Yucca: It's also one of those tricky ones in terms of what is it called? 

Mark: Right. That's the first thing we need to talk about. What do you call this thing? How do you pronounce that? And so forth and so on from there. 

Yucca: Yeah. Well, I often use Lamas because it's the one I can spell of the ones that other people might know what, what I'm talking about. I also think of it as the Second Summer and It's just that, that beautiful, wonderful holiday, which we'll get into the meaning for it later. But I almost don't even think of it having a name. I just associate it with what's happening during the season for us. So it's our monsoon holiday.

Mark: Right, right. Yeah. Llamas comes from the middle English meaning loaf mass. 

So in Europe it's very associated with bread and the green harvest, which happened right about now in the course of the year in the countries that had that kind of agricultural cycle. And so it's also associated with all of the products of green, like beer and bread and you know, all the associated things that you can make with grain. Another word that is commonly used in the pagan community is Luna SSA, which is spelled with a variety of extra consonants. 

Yucca: Pronounced Luna, Luna, Luna said neither of which. Correct pronunciations for Irish.

Mark: Right. And I choose not to use that name because when I was naming the Sabbaths around the course of the wheel of the year and just generally conceptualizing atheopagan ism generally I didn't want to be drawing from any particular culture. I want it to be very clear that this was a modern interpretation of paganism that didn't stem from Celtic culture or Norse culture or Germanic culture or Greek culture or Egypt culture.

You know, for, for a number of reasons, one of which is that I feel strongly. My spirituality being a forward-looking spirituality about living in the world today and our vision for the future. And also because I wanted to avoid a cultural appropriation. So 

Yucca: name also is in reference to a God. Is it not?

Mark: yes, yes, Lugh, who is a God that I don't know anything about. 

Yucca: Yeah.

Mark: So what I have been calling this, I, I, for a while, and in the book I call it Summer's End, but. Really, it just isn't the end of summer here. If that doesn't work very well. So I've moved from that to Summer's Waning. And also just to the term Dimming, because this is the time of year when it begins to become clear that the days are getting shorter again.

It's been long enough since the summer solstice that you can really tell. You're not getting those very little. Nights anymore. It's the days are still long. They're just not as long. 

Yucca: yeah, that's getting noticeable. Hmm. I love the waning that connects it back to some of the. The lunar term terminology that we use as well, even though it's a solar holiday, it's, it's connecting those two just with the language. 

Mark: Right, right. 

Yucca: Although in my, my climate, the sun is, the days are getting shorter, but the summer itself, definitely not coming to an end, but this is the height of summer for us.

You know, summer solstice is. 

Mark: Yeah. 

Yucca: Still it's summer, but it's still spring ish. It's really the end of spring, but this is truly summer for us at this point. 

Mark: What'd you say it was high summer where you are. 

Yucca: really sure. How to, what that word would really mean to be high summer. 

Mark: okay. Okay. 

Yucca: Because I would associate high summer with being like the very middle of summer. And I suppose it i

Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at [email protected]

An Atheopagan Ritual Primer: https://atheopaganism.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/an-atheopagan-ritual-primer-v4.pdf

S2E27 TRANSCRIPT:

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Mark: Welcome Back to the Wonder Science-based Paganism. I'm your host Mark. 

Yucca: And I'm Yucca. 

Mark: Today. We're going to talk about sacred space. What it is, how to create it and how to, to build sacred space into your own home.

Yucca: Exactly. And we'll also get in to a little bit, building that in, in shared spaces. Because we know that a lot of people are in situations where they share space. First of all, but might be with a roommate, a dorm mate, you know, parents, spouses, anything like that. And they may not be in a situation where they're one, their aesthetics, but also their beliefs are shared. 

Mark: Right. And so, it becomes sort of a threading, the needle process of you know, how do you get your needs? While also accommodating the needs of the other people in your household. So we'll be talking about that some as well, but let's start with just what sacred space is because that's, it's a little hard to define.

In my experience, sacred space is the environmental conditions that facilitate my moving into a ritual state of mind. 

Yucca: Okay. 

Mark: And that typically includes things like low lighting levels like candlelight aesthetically pleasing and metaphorically, symbolic objects and decor might include music that is facilitative for that.

And personally, I, I like to live in sacred space. I, I decorate my room in a manner that is. It's kind of like a temple in that way. It has, you know, amazing sort of masks from all over the world on the walls and various, you know, pieces of art and symbolic objects and candle sticks and cauldrons and stuff like that.

Yucca: Mm. Yeah. So I, I think I share your, your idea of sacred space as a space that can help move you into that ritual space. And that really just influences the way that we feel. It's something that I'm very aware of because one of my parents was an architect. So I grew up on job sites and building and all of those things.

And so the shape of the space, the feeling of the space is, is this something always present and. The awareness of just what it feels like to walk into one room versus another room or one building versus another, or to step out, it really, really changes our moods and just our awareness of the world. 

Mark: Yes. Yes. And I think this is something that we often don't pay much attention to. We just kind of slide on through our passage from space to space without really acknowledging how it's influencing our our psyche and our emotions. But. As we've said over and over again, a big element of being a science-based pagan is learning to pay attention and being aware of our environment.

And that includes the built environment. It doesn't just include the natural environment. It includes the built environment. You know, we live in houses and apartments and, and, you know, various places. 

Yucca: RVs. Yeah. Yeah. 

Mark: And in some cases, tents. 

Yucca: Yeah. 

Mark: Still we live in constructed spaces and our ability to make those spaces feel good to us is 

Yucca: True. 

Mark: something we have choices about.

Most of us have choices about. And so over the years I have collected various pieces of artwork and Furniture items and so forth that speak to me of a particular aesthetic. And I deploy those in my room in a way that kind of augments the alter that's sort of the centerpiece of it, the focus And so at night I can put on some music and light some candles, and I'm really most of the way there into the ritual state before I even do any breathing exercises or visualization or any of that kind of stuff.

Yucca: Yeah. So it sounds like you're, you're describing. Space that that you're stepping into. Well, sometimes some people are lucky enough to be in a position where they get to actually design

Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at [email protected]

 

S2E26 TRANSCRIPT:

 

----more----Yucca: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism. I'm one of your hosts Yucca. 

Mark: And I'm the other one. Mark. 

Yucca: And today we are coming back to the Atheopagan principles. So we've done a few episodes before, and we're going to tackle the final four today, although it's not like they're the last ones or the end, it's kind of cyclical, like probably all things and cycles.

Mark: Yeah, these are principles. Just to remind listeners, or maybe you haven't heard the previous episodes about the atheopagan principles, these are the 13 core kind of operating how to live your life principles in the atheopagan path. And. So they are virtues they're things to be pursued and aspired to; adopting the atheopagan principles doesn't mean that you're perfect at them.

It just means that you think that they're important and that you want to live your life in accordance with them to the degree that you're in. So, we've done two previous episodes, one about the first four. What about the middle five? And now we're doing the final four and we just want to talk about what they mean to us and why we think they're important. 

Yucca: Yeah. 

And 

as always, this is not us saying you should believe what we believe, but we're talking about, we're talking about them because they are important to us and we think they're valid.

Mark: Yes. I think they provide they and the four pillars, the four sacred things of atheopagan is and provide a sort of roadmap for. How to proceed a good set of tests when you're in a situation and you don't know what to do. Well, here are some, here are some guideposts that can kind of help you to decide what the right thing to do might be.

So, we, we present them in that spirit, not in a vowel shelter sort of thing. There are no commandments in a non theist paganism and So I think we'll just get started. 

Yucca: Yeah. So the first one is one that I think many forms of paganism share, but it's something that definitely sets paganism apart from. Modern religions. And that is that we are pleasure positive.

Mark: Yes. There is a great deal of shame and doubt and self self harm associated with simply enjoying pleasurable things in the over culture. You know, and, and it manifests itself in many, many, many ways. In classic horror films, you can tell that the people that are going to get killed next are the ones who just had sex. Because they have to be punished. They did something pleasurable and now something bad has to happen to them. And in, 

Yucca: deserve bad things happening to them because they were indulging too much in life or any of those things.

Mark: right, right. You know, people this, the so-called victimless crimes where You know, we've we put people into prison for doing a mushroom trip, for example, which, you know, is a non-addictive substance that has zero record of people, you know, going crazy and killing people or doing anything harmful people generally just sit in one place and go wow for six hours.

And, and yet we put people in prison for it. Simply because it's something that's enjoyable and there's a deep. History of this, going back to Calvinism and the Protestant reformation, and it is certainly heavily sewn into American culture, which of course was brought over by puritanical Protestant, Christians. 

Yucca: Yeah.

Mark: So in the pagan world, we think pleasure is good for you. 

Yucca: Yeah,

Mark: Obviously not at someone else's expense, obviously not without consent of any participating party. 

Yucca: right. That's 

big. That's huge. If it's, if there isn't consent, then, then that's something completely different.

Mark: that's right. It's not okay. That's that's violence in victim ization. That's not that's, that's not enjoying something. 

The the, the pagan community has generally been very laissez Faire around these so-called. Victimless crimes. Sex

The WONDER will be back next week. 

Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at [email protected]

Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at [email protected]

 

S2E24 TRANSCRIPT:

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Mark: Welcome back to the wonder science-based paganism. I'm your host Mark. 

And today we're going to talk about relationships, big topic, lots to say about it. We expect this will only be kind of a first. Crack at what could be ongoing conversations on this subject, but particularly because relationships in the pagan community can be significantly different than mainstream kind of over culture driven relationships.

We wanted to talk about that and what the differences are and some of the things to watch for.

Yucca: Right. And also since we do enjoy talking about seasonal topics for many people, we're going into what's sometimes called wedding season. And this year there are a lot more than there were last year. There's people are still kind of holding off, but you might be going to a wedding or you might be having one yourself or. 

Mark: You might be officiating at one.

Yucca: exactly. Right. So not only for that seasonal reason, but also because this is such a human thing, relationships, whether it's a marriage or a partnership or a, I don't know what you would call a, a relationship with, not a partnership, but a 

Mark: Well, because social 

Yucca: social. Yeah. 

Mark: you know, it's a sort of a social circle of friends, right. You know, we're, we are social animals. We evolved in packs and we rely heavily on the fact of the existence of other fellow people around us. And of course there are exceptions people who. You know, who are antisocial and don't really want to be very connected with other people.

Humans are very diverse, but as a species, we did evolve that way. And so. And we're the way that we're built. When we reproduce, we have what is essentially a larval human, which is completely incapable of taking care of itself. And that requires ongoing relationships in order to support that child until they can care for themselves.

And that requires many years of those relationships being attacked.

Yucca: Yeah. So, so when we talk about relationships, We have many different levels, right? We can be talking about our romantic sexual relationships, but we also have the relationship between parents and children, friends, extended family work, all of those things. And the word relationship encompasses all of that. 

Mark: Yeah, we have lousy terminology in English. I think I've talked about this before. We've got this one word love, which is supposed to encompass the emotional experience of all these different kinds of relationships. And then we have one word relationship, which is used to fill in the, the explained connection between people who are friends, people who are coworkers, people who are family, people who are lovers, people who are.

Siblings, it just goes on.

Yucca: so let's get into that. And let's also talk a little bit about. Why we wanted to talk about this topic, because this is a podcast about non theist paganism, specifically science-based non theist paganism. And sometimes it might seem like our topics are a little far off from that, but they're not right.

This is all really connected. So, so let's get into that a little bit. Why this is so important. 

Mark: Sure. Well, as I mentioned at the top of the episode, one of the things that I think about a lot, when I think about relationships with. Within the pagan sphere, is that fine? No, mentally we are a different kind of religious tradition and then the Abrahamic, right. Religions that drive the over culture, Christianity, Judaism, Islam.

Those are authoritarian religions. They're hierarchical in nature with God at the top of the pyramid and they are filled with. Inherited rules revealed dogma doctrine, which is told to you for how you're supposed to behave. And that includes in your relationships. There's all kinds of stuff about, you know, first of all, there's very, very kind of siloed gender roles.

So there's men and

Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at [email protected]

 

S2E23 TRANSCRIPT:

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Yucca: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-Based Paganism. I'm one of your hosts Yucca. 

Mark: and then the other one, Mark.

Yucca: And this week we are talking about herbs, about plants, about Wildcraft all that good stuff. 

Mark: Yeah, exactly. You know, I was saying before we started to record, if you think about the stereotypical, which is hut, you know, they're out there in the woods, right. You know, all dripping with Moss and everything, and you step inside the threshold and you look up what you see are the rafters hung with bundles of various kinds of plants and herbs that are drying.

Right. So pretty much a part of the whole tradition and archetype of the witch or the healer or the, the pagan to be to be working with our local herbs and. and to do that with, for a variety of different reasons. So we're going to address that today with the caveat that neither Yucca nor I is either a botanist or an herbalist.

So we're just kind of nibbling around the edges of this, but wanted to make our listeners aware of it and give you our thoughts.

Yucca: exactly. I think that that image, that archetype is really interesting in today's conversation because very, very few of us live in that context anymore. That archetype, that image comes from at least as stories about times in which we lived in much smaller communities when we've lived much closer to the rest of nature.

And for many of us today, we live inside of, of very large urban areas in which the connection with the rest of nature is not so visible to us. Of course, we're still part of these cycles. We're alive. There's no way of getting out of that, but our society is set up in such a way that many of us are simply consumers.

By what has already been produced. And then it just magically goes away, whether that's a flush of the toilet or you put it in the bin and that gets taken away by the garbage truck. And we just, aren't part of the production element, let alone the death part and the decay, which we'll come back to in the fall.

When we come back to talking about compost and all of that good stuff, just cause we like to do things seasonally. But I think given that the, the connection with plants and of course not just plants, but fungi and, and all of the other very interesting

types of life that there are that I, think that that can be really, even more potent in our lives today because it's missing. 

Mark: I agree. I, I think so. And one of the things that struck me as you were talking about our urbanized environment is that the other thing that's happened is that we have really farmed. The expertise in various skills like medicine. And that's not to say that Western medicine is somehow wrong because generally speaking, it's not, it's very effective at what it's good at, but 

Yucca: that's another conversation of, it's very good at it. Certain things not so great at other things. And hopefully we can start to address that. 

Mark: right. But it used to be that medicinal activity was mostly the purview of yourself, yourself and your family. You kind of had to take care of this yourself. So if you didn't know anything about. The kinds of herbs that might help you, if you have, you know, a really terrible sinus cold or something like that, then you were just going to be miserable and maybe things would deteriorate from there.

But if on the other hand you knew that elderflower is a really effective tincture for head colds and congestion and stuff like that. Then you could remedy your situation and improve your symptoms. So, that image of the, the herbs drawing in the rafters yes, it's part of the whole witchy aesthetic which is cool.

We're into the witchiest. But it's also a reflection of a time when people just had to be much more self-sufficient because services were not as available.

Yucca: and, and today it's, it can be 

Mark: Cool.

Yu

Remember, we welcome comments, questions and suggested topics at [email protected]

White Wine in The Sun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNvZqpa-7Q

 

S2E22 TRANSCRIPT:----more----

Mark: Welcome back to the Wonder Science-based Paganism. I'm your host Mark. 

Yucca: And I'm Yucca.

Mark: And it is time for Midsummer. It is the summer solstice coming up and we're going to talk about that today.

Yucca: Exactly. So. What it is to us in our particular bioregions and our particular practice. And just about it in general. 

Mark: Yeah. I mean, this is one of those holidays that doesn't actually exist in the over cultures calendar of holidays. The, the, the winter solstice is pretty well-represented by all of the various winter salts to see holidays that happen around that time. But with the exception of the American Memorial day, we don't really have anything that 

Yucca: Cool. 4th of July, sort of. 

Mark: Yeah. Okay. 

Yucca: Yeah, I think 4th of July.

know it's a little bit later, but it's still kind of in that same time of year summary, holiday 

Mark: Yeah, enjoy, enjoy the long evenings. That kind of thing. Yeah. You're right 

Yucca: but it's still a stretch 

Mark: right. It's not 

Yucca: I mean, Christmas and winter solstice right there. Right. 

Mark: And it's not like in some European countries where Midsummer is a big deal and you have all kinds of traditions that go along with that.

Yucca: Who is, is it son, Juan they're in primarily Catholic countries. There is a St stay which involves a bonfire. On the solstice. And sometimes there's a tradition of the students burning their old papers and things like that at the end of the year to celebrate that the, that.

the semester, the year's over. 

Mark: Okay. I wasn't aware of that, but that's very interesting. Yes. I mean, this is another fire holiday very closely associated with building a big fire, which frankly I think is just an another excuse to build a big fire. I mean, people. People don't need much of an excuse to build a fire and have a big party around it.

But this is another one of those. So we're going to talk about how we conceptualize mid summer or the summer solstice what we call it, how we envision it in the cycle of the year, the wheel of the year and the various cycles that we track. How that may vary from bioregion to bio region what kinds of rituals we do in our practices and that we're aware of that other people might do and stuff like that.

So let's dive in.

Yucca: Yeah. So question number one. Is it actually mid-summer for you? 

Mark: Yes, 

Yucca: it is. Okay. 

Mark: It is, I consider the beginning of summer to be the Mayday holiday. And yeah, that's just so that the names Midsummer and mid-winter will otherwise they don't work.

Yucca: But in terms of, in your bioregion region, your climate, has it been summer for awhile? 

Mark: oh, yes. 

Yucca: Yeah. Okay. 

Mark: Yeah. For quite a while. And the, the transition in my region is very noticeable because all the Hills go from being green, to being gold, all the grasses die. And so, you know, you have this kind of golden brown color instead of the green of the winter growth. And that happens right around may day.

So, it begins right around may the eighth. So that's kind of the beginning of summer and it extends and it's completed. The Hills are completely brown except for the green Oak trees. By the time we get to the summer solstice. 

Yucca: Hmm. 

Mark: How about you?

Yucca: Well, definitely not. Mid-summer as in the mid point of summer for us, this is the beginning of summer. We, I live at a very high elevation, so dry, dry desert, but high desert. So 7,000 feet, I think that's a little over. 2100 meters somewhere in that range. So very high up. So really summer press doesn't begin until June to beginning of June is the beginning of summer feel.

The last week of may, may be may is one of those months that can really go either direction where it's literally freezing the night before. And the

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S2E21 TRANSCRIPT:

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Yucca: Welcome back to The Wonder Science-Based Paganism. I'm one of your hosts Yucca.

Mark: The other one, Mark.

Yucca: And this week we are. Continuing our conversation on the atheopagan principles. So we talked about the first four last month, several weeks back, and we're going to get into the middle ones into the next five now. 

Mark: Yeah. And to start with, we should give a little background on where these come from. As we mentioned in the previous episode that we did addressing these principles, these are principles that I developed based around the four sacred pillars of atheopaganism, which we did an episode about a little while back They are basically guidelines for living well for being a good person and having a good life.

And There are non theist pagans who don't consider themselves atheopagan and they may subscribe to other ethical structures, but generally these are pretty common sense. Pretty progressive modern values as opposed to say bronze age values that you find in the Bible.

Yucca: Exactly we, and as always, we certainly are not presenting these saying, you should believe the way that we do or anything like that. But, but th this is really talking about these values is really important and brings up the opportunity to really think about what we believe and how we want to be and behave and act in this world. 

Mark: Yes. Yes. The. I've talked about this before, but I'll, I'll touch on it a little bit. Now, one of the things that has always struck me about modern Neo paganism generally is that it is a little scant on ethics. There's a lot of emphasis on I have my rights and I I'm free to do whatever I want. If it's my will, I'm going to do it.

But there isn't very much on associated responsibilities or on guidelines for what to do and what not to do. And a religious framework really benefits it's practitioners by having that kind of guidance. Now we're all free beings. We can all make decisions for ourselves in any given situation about what to do and what we think is right.

But these guidelines, I think provide a useful illumination of what's most likely to work out well for ourselves and for the people around us.

 

Perspective 

Yucca: exactly. So let's, let's get into these, the first we'll be talking about today, but the fifth on our list of 13, I mean is perspective, one of the things that you did that I really appreciated was you wrote a little sentence, a little explanation afterwards, and for perspective, you have have perspective.

I laugh a lot. Including myself. 

Mark: Yeah, because. There is such a danger in taking ourselves too seriously. I mean, life is both a comedy and a tragedy, but more than anything else, life is absurd. The, the various ironies of things that happen to us and the, just the general weirdness of, of. Of living this life is something that we can either weep about or we can laugh about.

And I think that it's a part of that fourth principle of humility to be able to look at ourselves in our behavior and get a good chuckle out of there I go again, meet me doing the things. And it's just funny. It's funny. And I don't mean that in a mocking way. I mean, it, in a kind way, I think that the ability to laugh at ourselves and to gain some perspective about the human story, the human condition is really important as a part of our, our ethics as we move through life.

Yucca: Yes.

Yes. And also another. Another way to come at. This is being aware of different perspectives. When it comes to interpersonal relationships, being able to recognize that somebody is coming from another perspective and that perspective can also be valid. Now, this may be hu