Good morning and welcome to the Wisdom and Wrenches podcast. I'm your host Willie Sheriff and today we're going to talk about apprentices in shops, but it covers the blue collar trades too. So one of the things that i keep hearing about is you know there's no nobody has faith in humanity or the future and the the next generation you know they're lazy and all this negative stuff they have to say yeah i agree there's there's some less than motivated people in the next generation of people coming up but i think that existed in all the generations before us too And so, but part of the problem is how the new generation is treated compared to older generations and the way they respond to things versus the way the rest of us older people were raised and were raised. Expected to respond to things and there's way more distractions for the new generation too that we didn't have in the older generations that people don't take into consideration and so connecting with the new generation is harder now than it has ever been because all of us including them and especially them. Their attention span is consumed by so many distractions, social media, a job home can't afford to get their own home because housing is so horrendous and so you know this is going to lead to some uncomfortableness for some business owners because well quite frankly somebody's going to spit their coffee out because the other thing that's also happening is you do get younger people in the trades and the diesel shops that are pretty good employees that do want to learn and do have the aptitude and then you have quite frankly you have shitty owners that treat them terribly and then they just leave the industry just give up on working because they're treated so poorly and so you know one of the things that's been a huge thing is pay nobody wants to pay the apprentices because you know it's it's hard on a business It's hard on a shop because an apprentice, a good apprentice is really like three to one when they're starting out, which means they're going to work about three hours to bill out an hour. I mean, if you, and that they're going to have jobs better than that, they're going to have jobs worse than that. But when you average it out, they start out, they're about three to one. And then a couple of years in, if you, the owner is doing a good job, then they're going to get down to like two to one. You know, by three or three, they're going to be 60, 70, 80% is what you're shooting for. And when I, when I say being a good owner, if you, if you have an apprentice in your shop, he's doing a good job and he's been in the shop for a year and you haven't gave him a pay raise, you're being a shitty owner because one of two things is happening. You're pissed off at the apprentice because he doesn't know enough, which means it's your fault because you're not training him enough. Or two, he doesn't have the aptitude and he's not worth keeping in the shop. And so you're not training him, which makes you a shitty owner because you should get rid of him and go find a better one. So either way, it's going to be your fault. Either you should be giving them a raise or you should be training them. But either way, it's going to fall on you as the owner. And if you have that many employees under you and it's not happening and you're going to blame your shop foreman or your shop manager, then it's still your fault, the owner, because that means that you have the wrong manager, the wrong shop foreman, or the wrong training program in the shop. And this is not just shops. This is not just diesel shops. This goes automotive shops, electricians, plumbers, dealerships. Whatever, feed stores, subway, whatever. They're all apprentices. They're all learning how to work. They're all learning processes. They're all learning procedures. They're all learning all of that stuff. And you as an owner and as a company have to have the processes to train these people. And either they're a good enough employee to keep around and you need to pour the training into them and give them pay raises as they increase their value and skills to the company, or you need to get rid of them. And you have to pick a road and you have to look in the mirror at some point, and you're going to have to say, I got to do better or this guy is not getting it. We've taught this guy 12 times to do a wheel seal and it still takes him six hours and there's no improvement. So at that point, you still have to look in the mirror and say, okay, is it our training process that's the problem or is it the person that we're trying to raise the problem and then make a choice from there. But either way, you have to make a choice instead of smashing your head against the wall for somebody that you now have in the building that you don't even want to pour 10 minutes into training them, because it's just easy to have a warm body there and be pissed off at them and then pay them nothing and they don't really even want to work because they don't feel like they're valued. It's a lose-lose deal if you don't make a choice. And quite frankly, a good apprentice is going to get a pay raise every six or eight months because here's what's happened. Here's what happens. We'll give you a little math formula. So let's say most trades, most journeyman's are going to top out in four years ish. It changes, depends on the whatever, but we're going to use four, four years, the baseline and we're going to use 120,000 as a journeyman top out number just for simple math. Everybody can argue based on what your trade is, but for basic math's sake. So let's say you start this apprentice out at $20 an hour. 18-year-old kid, did a little bit of school. Well, honestly, that kid coming out of school is going to be more like 25. Quite honestly, I've heard that some of these municipalities are trying to pay guys 30 just to try to get them in the building regardless of their skills. But anyways, let's say they start at 25, you put them in the building and they work for a year and you, you don't give them a raise. So why didn't you give them a raise? They should have had one or two by then, probably one, probably somewhere around eight months they should have had a raise and not 50 cents, not your JIPO one dollar. Oh, here's a dollar an hour. You've improved a dollar an hour. Like, no, like a legit raise. Because that person's going to be about 60, 50, 60% of what your journeyman is. And so to get where he needs to go, you're going to be like 5, 10% increases here along the way. And so let's say you don't give them a raise because you're, you, for whatever reason, well, we're just going to call it what it is. You're being a shitty owner. You have an apprentice in the building. You did not give them a raise after a year. You're being a shitty owner. You should either give them a raise or you should have fired them. One of the two. And so now let's say you get to year two and your cheap ass still has not give that person a raise. So you have a person in the building, $25 an hour. That's 50 grand a year. basic math 2,000 hours a year working 50 grand a year roughly to work okay so now you're two years in to four years to becoming a journeyman okay the clock's ticking if you get to two years and you haven't gave that guy like 10 20 by now you're really really being a dirtbag owner like you're really doing that person a disservice because a you really don't like him and b you're holding them back or you're just being a cheap ass and you don't want your employees to succeed and buy houses and move on in life so either way that all circles back to the boss so now you're two years in you got two years left on the clock until that guy's a journey okay so you're telling me because you're such a great owner in two years you're going to increase his you're going to increase that guy's take-home pay or pay from $25 an hour to $60 an hour in two years. You didn't give him a raise for two. For two years, you didn't give him a raise. You gave him a dollar a year or some cheap-ass whatever thing you somehow thought is okay in your head. Right? So you gave him a dollar an hour, you gave him a $2,000 an hour raise. And now here you are staring, you are staring down the road to this apprentice. They are two years away from getting, being a journeyman. And you're telling me now you're going to instantly now overnight, you're going to give them $45 an hour pay raise. How are you going to get there? I'll tell you how it's going to happen is they're going to get there you're going to try to pay them $35 an hour, and that person's going to leave your company because you didn't pay them enough, and then you're going to be mad that they left you because you didn't pay them enough and they found a job that will pay them the $60 an hour that they should be, not the $40 an hour because you didn't give them pay raises along the way. So the way that should look is if he's at 60%, we'll use percentages. If he's at 60% of scale on year one, by year three, they should be 90, 85, 90% of scale. So then the last year, you're 10% the last year to get there. Maybe it's a year and a half. They're a late bloomer and you're down to 10, 15%. They're not going to leave you over the 10 or 15% about the journeyman, how far along they are in the journeyman life. That's not they're not going to leave for that they're going to leave the guy that is not paying them what they're worth the whole entire way and then tries to give them five dollars an hour year four or year three year three oh well you know you're finally kind of figuring it out so i'll get you up to 30 bucks an hour now but what are you going to do are you going to give him a 30 dollar an hour pay raise next year when he's a journeyman are you going to give him a you know he's not a full-fledged journeyman in a year are you going to give him 20 next year No. No, you're going to kick rocks, hiss and moan because he left you. They left because you're being a cheap ass and you're not moving them along in the process like you should. And if you're not moving them along in the process like you should, we're going to circle back around to this. If that apprentice in year three is not where you want him to be to where he can be a journeyman in year four or five. That's on you and the company for training. Now, I'll argue with you. We'll do the argument. If you want to get your apprentice to 85% in year four because they're a late bloomer, a little bit slower, or had big chunks of time missing, like they were in high school when you hired them, and so they need that extra year, and you're at 85% in year four, then yeah, good for you. Kudos to you, the owner, for getting them to that point. And yeah, that is totally justifiable. But if you're at year three and your apprentice is still at 65%, 70% of what scale is, shame on you as an owner. And shame on the public perception that this is all on the apprentices. Because it's not all on the apprentices. Because what's happening in the industry now is you're getting these companies. We won't call any of them out. And they're throwing stupid numbers at these apprentices out of school to get them in the door. And then they get them in the door. And then they just leave them at 30 35 bucks an hour for four or five till the till they figure out that dude i'm worth way more than this now and they have to claw and kick to get a raise then they come back and like oh we'll give you a buck here's a dollar to get them to stay like it's shameful the way that some of these apprentices are being treated that way so the other side of this though now now see here now here's where the apprentice is like you're gonna have to look in the mirror and say, hey, I'm asking for more money, but am I being a good apprentice? Okay. God gave you one mouth and two ear holes for a reason. That's how that works. Got one mouth and two ears. So you can shut your mouth and listen to what the old timers are trying to teach you. So you can actually learn and apply what you're being taught. Because if the old guy in the shop comes to you and asks you a hard question, your response shouldn't be, yeah, I know. No, you don't know. Otherwise, they wouldn't be asking you the question and you wouldn't feel defensive because you would actually know the answer if you had the experience that the older guy has that's asking you the hard question that you're now offended because you don't know the answer. How about when they ask you a hard question that you don't have the answer to, you're like, man, I don't know that. Can you show me? Hey, hey, Mr. Mr. Journeyman, I've tried X, Y, and Z and it's not working. Is there a different solution to this problem that you can think of? That's how you should be approaching it. Don't go to the journeyman in the shop. Don't go to the, don't call the journeyman on the phone and say, hey, this truck won't start. What, what, how should I do? How should I troubleshoot it to find out how it starts? That's not how that conversation should go. That conversation should go quite simply is, hey, I'm working on this truck. I've checked X, Y, and Z. The batteries are okay. I know the batteries are okay. I have 12 volts to the starter. Like, I don't understand why this thing won't go. Is there something I'm missing? Well, yes, young man. Did you check if you got 12 volts at the solenoid? Well, no, there's not 12 volts at the solenoid. Well, how do you know? Well, I checked the wire. Okay, well, which wire did you check? Show me. Well, I checked this one. Okay, well, that's the ground wire. You've got to check the other big wire. Oh. Now, if you go to that journeyman, Mr. Apprentice, with the, hey, tell me what's wrong with this truck. It won't start. The journeyman's on the clock just like you are he's being judged by his efficiency just like you are and if you don't come to him with where you've already tried to help yourself and you're just wanting the answer the easy way out where you don't learn anything they just give you the answer odds are they're not going to help you and if they do help you they're going to help you a couple times, maybe. But pretty soon, they're going to tell you to pound sand, or they won't talk to you, or they're going to act like you just don't even exist when you ask questions like that. Because they know you're not trying, you're just coming to them for the easy answer. Sorry, I'm just getting over a cold. So a little bit of a cough going. The apprentice hat, you have to do the little work. The tedious stuff that, no, the journeymen aren't doing or the journeymen are doing, but you've got to be a professional too. Are you cleaning up after yourself? Are you staying busy when you're lost? If you get to a point, whatever, and there's some work in the shop that you can't do because you don't have the knowledge yet, are you going to take the garbage out? Are you going to sweep the floors? You do some of the little stuff that keeps the shop flowing smoothly without kissing and moaning and throwing a fit, kicking, throwing rocks. Like, how are you going to act in that situation? Or let me guess, you're two years into your apprenticeship and you're too good to sweep the floors. It's okay for a 20 year journeyman to sweep floors, but you, you, the two or three year apprentice, you can't sweep floors. Like that's beneath you. Like you could just spread your shit out throughout the whole entire shop and it's beneath you to have to clean up after yourself because that's what that's what starting apprentices do it that that doesn't end doesn't matter if you're an older guy or an apprentice I'll argue with you now our apprentice in the shop right now shout out to Nick he is probably one of the best apprentices I've had under me as far as. And it's part of it's because I've pounded it into him, but still he takes the action. He still has to have some improvement, but he is very good at if I can't answer his question right then. And he's a little bit sideways on something and he just has to stop because he's not getting anywhere. He will go pick up a broom. He will take out a garbage. He will go find something on a different truck to work on. He will go make up something. He'll call me, text me. Hey what can i do like he like i give him a solid a for that now he needs to work on uh some of his other stuff as far as while he's working as far as being clean but but as far as like being an apprentice willing to do the tedious stuff in the shop that people don't like to do he will go pick up the broom clean up his mat like like he does that on his own and so he's a shining example of that there is life and humanity after our generation. There's hope for the next generation. And so where I'm going with all of this is. Yeah, apprentices can be frustrating at times. Nick has been a pain in my ass at times. Shout out to Nick. He's taken some pretty good butt chewings, but he's deserved all of them. He can be a pain in the butt. I could be a pain in the ass as an owner or as a boss. like i'll admit it not always easy to work with but what where i have a problem is is right now is we have the older generation. Pointing their finger at the next generation and telling them basically that they're never going to be good enough. There's no hope for the future of the country. This next generation is a bunch of whatevers and they're lumping them all together. And it's not fair because there is a group of them. There was that group of people in my generation. There was a group before Nick's generation. There was a group before my generation and the generation before that there was a group within the group that checks all the boxes for the apprentices now that did the exact same shit that they do now that annoyed the shit out of everybody else and me like it was all there they were all there it's more front and center now than it's ever been because of the volume of, employer employees now and the lack of people that want to work. But that's no excuse for when we get good apprentices that are in your industry to treat them like shit and not pay them. Or to treat them like shit and not pour into them and train them so they can be good at their craft. And if they don't want to be in the craft, they're not good at that craft and they don't want to be in the craft, then go find another one. Don't just sit there and wade in mediocrity and then be pissed off and say, oh, well, I can't hire another one. Well, if you can't hire another one, then you're not doing a good job as an owner marketing to get another one. It still comes back to the owner. But we also, as owners, need to do stuff to make the apprentices want to be in the industry. What are you doing? I'll challenge all of you, all of you that are in the industry. You've been in it 10 plus years. What are you doing as an individual to make the apprentices want to come to work and be part of what you're doing and get good at their craft? What are you doing? Not even owners, straight up mechanics, electricians, plumbers, subway. People like doesn't matter where you were pizza hut mcdonald's if you're an older technician or person at your job what are you doing to the next generation that they want to come to work and good good get good at their craft. I'll let that sink in. I'll let you marinate on that. Because the whole, I mean, part of the point of this podcast is to get people to think, to think outside the box, to think outside the norm, to be better people, to be better business owners, for all of us to get better. And so I will stop rambling about this nonsense. Where do you go from here? That's what I'm going to leave be with? Where is you as a person, when you go to work tomorrow, where does this leave you and what can you do to help the apprentices and the industries become better apprentices and want to stay in your industry? What can you do to help them along? Guys, I buy tools for my apprentices. I don't have to buy them. A socket here, a specialty socket here for taking out a driveline. I've bought snap-on makes starter wobbly 5H 12 point starter wobbly that's low profile that's amazing for putting on your impact and getting the bolt out between the block and the starter bought several of those actually over the years it's just little stuff like that like hey here you go these will help you I haven't always been awesome to everybody in the shop but a lot of when I'm not being very helpful to an apprentice, it's because they won't help themselves or they have a shitty attitude. Or when you ask them a question or say, hey, did you think about this? They say, yeah, I know. They're not receptive to, oh, why is he asking me that question? What do I need to learn here? So anyways, you guys are all amazing. Hope you guys all stay awesome and have a great week.
