What does it mean to unfawn — and how can Taylor Swift’s music help us do it?

In this powerful episode, Dr. Ingrid Clayton dives deep with Meredith and Lauren into the trauma response of fawning — when we prioritize others' needs over our own in order to stay safe — and what it takes to unlearn it. Together, they explore how Taylor Swift's music has become a soundtrack for fans in reclaiming autonomy, setting boundaries, and rediscovering sense of self.

From identity struggles to nervous system healing, this conversation touches on the messy, courageous work of personal growth. With both clinical insight and real-life reflections, Ingrid breaks down what it means to stop performing for approval and start living for yourself.

If you’ve ever felt stuck in people-pleasing or disconnected from your own power, this episode is a reminder: you’re not alone, and you can chart a new path — one that’s unapologetically yours.

Episode show notes:

* Follow Dr. Ingrid Clayton on Instagram and TikTok.

* Pre-order Ingrid’s new book, Fawning, out this September!

* Want to be featured on a future episode of TheraSwifts? We're accepting submissions for interviews! Swifties of all identities are encouraged to apply. Please complete our Interview Submission Form to get the process started.

* If you would like to submit a question for Meredith and Lauren to answer on the podcast, please submit your Dear TheraSwifts question via this anonymous Google form.

* Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for future updates and follow us on Instagram (@theraswiftspod) to stay connected!

Episode chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Unfawning and Taylor Swift's Influence

03:09 Understanding Fawning as a Trauma Response

05:59 The Journey of Self-Discovery and Healing

08:51 Fawning in Relationships and Its Consequences

12:03 The Fight Response and Unfawning

15:09 Defining Fawning and Its Impact on Identity

17:56 Cassandra Complex and Self-Gaslighting

20:54 Empowerment Through Music and Personal Growth

23:59 Navigating Loss and Change in Relationships

26:34 Embracing Autonomy and Personal Growth

28:01 The Power of Resilience and Self-Discovery

29:44 Taylor Swift: A Symbol of Triumph

31:52 Fawning: The Struggle for Authenticity

36:49 Navigating Relationships and Boundaries

40:50 Rewiring the Nervous System

43:20 Distress Tolerance and Emotional Regulation

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

Welcome back, TheraSwifties! In this episode, Dr. Mariah Yates, PhD, MBA discusses her new book Swift Leadership: A Taylor-made Approach to Influence and Decision Making, which teaches leadership theories through the lens of Taylor Swift’s career. We explore the value of authenticity in leaders, the gender bias of pop culture, and why it’s important for academics to find new ways to deliver material to their students. Enjoy!

Episode show notes:

* Follow Dr. Yates on LinkedIn and order her book.

* Want to be featured on a future episode of TheraSwifts? We're accepting submissions for interviews! Swifties of all identities are encouraged to apply. Please complete our Interview Submission Form to get the process started.

* If you would like to submit a question for Meredith and Lauren to answer on the podcast, please submit your Dear TheraSwifts question via this anonymous Google form.

* Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for future updates and follow us on Instagram (@theraswiftspod) to stay connected!

Episode chapters:

00:00 Introduction to Dr. Mariah Yates and Her Work

02:59 Becoming a Swiftie: Personal Connections to Taylor Swift

06:09 The Cultural Impact of Taylor Swift's Music During the Pandemic

09:03 Experiencing the Eras Tour: A Collective Celebration

12:02 The Intersection of Leadership and Popular Culture

15:02 Teaching Leadership Through the Lens of Taylor Swift

17:57 The Broader Implications of Taylor Swift's Influence

21:00 The Future of Education and Pop Culture in Academia

24:35 Communicating Complex Ideas Effectively

27:02 The Gender Bias in Pop Culture

29:50 Defining Leadership Beyond Titles

32:40 Authenticity as a Leadership Trait

35:06 Taylor Swift's Unique Leadership Style

38:52 Setting Boundaries in the Digital Age

45:59 Surprising Insights from Researching Taylor Swift

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

In this episode of TheraSwifts, Lauren and Meredith chat with Claire Howard, a licensed marriage and family therapist who specializes in working with LGBTQIA+ individuals and couples, to explore the intersection of music, healing, and self-discovery.

We discuss Claire's journey of coming out and how Claire’s friendship has helped Lauren navigate her own recent coming out experience. We also explore the emotional landscape of Taylor Swift's music — particularly how and why it resonates with queer folx — as well as the power of subtext in Taylor’s lyrics, and the significance of songs as safe spaces for identity exploration.

Episode show notes:

* Follow Claire on Instagram and check out her website.

* Want to be featured on a future episode of TheraSwifts? We're accepting submissions for interviews! Swifties of all identities are encouraged to apply. Please complete our Interview Submission Form to get the process started.

* If you would like to submit a question for Meredith and Lauren to answer on the podcast, please submit your Dear TheraSwifts question via this anonymous Google form.

* Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for future updates and follow us on Instagram (@theraswiftspod) to stay connected!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

In this episode of TheraSwifts, Lauren chats with Annie Lawrence, a well-known Swiftie content creator (you probably know her as @aswiftiestory!) and singer-songwriter. They discuss Annie's journey as a fan of Taylor Swift, Taylor’s influence on her music career, and her transition into creating content for the Swiftie community. Listeners will also get a sneak peek into how Annie comes up with some of her viral Swiftie fan theories.

Show notes:

* Follow Annie on Instagram/TikTok and check out her original music!

* Want to be featured on a future episode of TheraSwifts? We're accepting submissions for interviews! Swifties of all identities are encouraged to apply. Please complete our Interview Submission Form to get the process started.

* If you would like to submit a question for Meredith and Lauren to answer on the podcast, please submit your Dear TheraSwifts question via this anonymous Google form.

* Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for future updates and follow us on Instagram (@theraswiftspod) to stay connected!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

Lauren and Meredith welcome poet Raquel Franco (you may know her on Instagram or TikTok as @raquelfranco.poet), who shares her journey as a Swiftie and how Taylor Swift's music has influenced her poetry. She also reflects on her own writing process, the themes of women’s empowerment and motherhood in her poetry, and her journey to becoming a published writer.

Show notes:

* Buy Raquel’s books I’ll Cry If I Want To and When The Bee Stings

* Follow Raquel on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook

* Want to be featured on a future episode of TheraSwifts? We're accepting submissions for interviews! Swifties of all identities are encouraged to apply. Please complete our Interview Submission Form to get the process started.

* If you would like to submit a question for Meredith and Lauren to answer on the podcast, please submit your Dear TheraSwifts question via this anonymous Google form.

* Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for future updates and follow us on Instagram (@theraswiftspod) to stay connected!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

Welcome to our Season Two era, TheraSwifties! We’re kicking things off with a bang (and the new Fearless (TV) cardigan) by talking to Kevin Evers, author of There’s Nothing Like This and senior editor at Harvard Business Review. In his new book, Kevin breaks down the brilliance of Taylor Swift as both a music icon and a business mastermind. From navigating industry shakeups to re-recording her masters, we dig into how Taylor turns heartbreak — and corporate drama — into chart-topping power moves.

Our conversation dives deep into: - The emotional intimacy she builds with fans- The radical act of reclaiming her art- How she turns every “you’ll never make it” into a “watch me”- And why her kindness is as impactful as her killer bridges

This episode is for anyone who knows Taylor is so much more than just catchy lyrics — she’s a force reshaping the music industry from the inside out.

Show notes:

* Buy Kevin’s book There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift

* Follow Kevin on Instagram and LinkedIn

* Want to be featured on a future episode of TheraSwifts? We're accepting submissions for interviews! Swifties of all identities are encouraged to apply. Please complete our Interview Submission Form to get the process started.

* If you would like to submit a question for Meredith and Lauren to answer on the podcast, please submit your Dear TheraSwifts question via this anonymous Google form.

* Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for future updates and follow us on Instagram (@theraswiftspod) to stay connected!

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

Back in January, while she was still displaced from the LA wildfires, Meredith told us “some things you just can’t speak about.”

Two months later, she’s found the words and she’s back with another psychoanalySwift brief. Meredith shares what it’s like living in the skeleton of the place you’ve loved for so long. And she gives a sneak peek at what we’ll be exploring more in season 2, which is coming soon. Stay tuned, dear listeners.

If you would like to submit a question for Meredith and Lauren to answer on the podcast, please submit your Dear TheraSwifts question via this anonymous Google form.

Want to be featured on a future episode of TheraSwifts? We're accepting submissions for interviews! Swifties of all identities are encouraged to apply. Please complete our Interview Submission Form to get the process started.

Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for future updates and follow us on Instagram (@theraswiftspod) to stay connected! 

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

Meredith and Lauren process the utter devastation of the LA fires, how the song 'Epiphany' is helping Meredith through her grief, and ways Swifties can support those impacted by the fires.

Episode show notes:

• GoFundMe #1
• GoFundMe #2
• SoCal Swifties Club

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye....to season 1 of TheraSwifts! We'll be on a brief hiatus while working on a super exciting new project (we promise to share more details as soon as possible!!). Listen through the episode for an Easter egg from Meredith on what our new project is 🕵️‍♀️

We want to send a GIANT thank you to all 18 of our guests who came on the pod to share their very intimate, vulnerable Swiftie stories with us. We couldn't have made the show without you. 

We'll be back in the spring!

Forever and always,
Meredith + Lauren
The TheraSwifts

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com

Thank you, Chelsea, for sharing your *gorgeous* Swiftie story with us. We loved every minute of it and we cannot wait to read your book. Follow Chelsea on Instagram at @chelseaimklong!

If you would like to submit a question for Meredith and Lauren to answer on the podcast, feel free to submit your Dear TheraSwifts question via this anonymous Google form.

Want to be featured on a future episode of TheraSwifts? We're accepting submissions for interviews! Swifties of all identities are encouraged to apply. Please complete our Interview Submission Form to get the process started.

Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast for future updates and follow us on Instagram (@theraswiftspod) to stay connected! 

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theraswiftspod.substack.com