Millions of Americans cannot afford housing despite working full-time jobs. They live in cars, shelters, or extended-stay hotels and often don’t qualify for assistance programs. Journalist and anthropologist Brian Goldstone follows five Atlanta families who are stuck in this cycle in his new book, There Is No Place for Us: Working and Homeless in America. Goldstone reveals how these parents and children are prevented from securing housing by steep rents, red tape, and predatory schemes. He spoke with Apple News In Conversation host Shumita Basu about how this crisis arose and ways to address it. Listen to the full interview on Apple Podcasts.

Correction: A previous version of this episode misstated when the federal minimum wage was last raised. We have removed that line from the interview. The last federal minimum-wage raise was in 2009, not the 1990s.