David Gornoski is joined by David Cayley, writer and host of the renowned CBC Radio One program Ideas. David Cayley talks about his new book Ivan Illich: An Intellectual Journey, his introduction to Rene Girard, the church's development into a power structure, the current public health crisis, the new hidden religion, the new normalization of undifferentiated carnivals, and more.

Visit David Cayley's website here. Visit A Neighbor's Choice website at aneighborshoice.com