Click Here is a podcast, hosted by Dina Temple-Raston, that tells true stories about the people making and breaking our digital world.

Earlier this year, the FBI added Mikhail Pavlovich Matveev to their Most Wanted hacker list for his alleged role in a number of ransomware attacks against U.S. targets. In a rare interview shortly after the FBI announcement, he talked about being added to the list and what he plans to do as an encore.

What do swarms of autonomous drones, facial recognition, and nuclear test site monitoring have in common? They are all things we were still curious about as we wrapped up this internet and security season of Things That Go Boom. In this mailbag episode, experts weigh in to help answer some tough questions from you, our audience!

GUESTS:

Lauren Kahn, Senior Research Analyst at the Center for Security and Emerging Technology; Dr. Eleni Manis, Research Director at the Surveillance Technology Oversight Project; Dr. Jeffrey Lewis, Director of the East Asia Nonproliferation Program at the Middlebury Institute of International Studies

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

Hicks Discusses Replicator Initiative, US Department of Defense

Ground Rules for the Age of AI Warfare, Foreign Affairs

Madison Square Garden Uses Facial Recognition to Ban Its Owner’s Enemies, The New York Times

Nuclear Test Sites Are Too Damn Busy, Arms Control Wonk

The Reason We’re All Still Here, Dr. Jeffrey Lewis

On Sunday, the people of Poland cast their votes in an election that some have called a battle for the country’s soul. When we released this episode, we were still watching for the various parties to confirm the parliamentary coalitions that would lead to the final result.

But experts tell us no matter who wins, one thing is likely to stay the same: Poland's hardline approach to refugees from its eastern border with Belarus.

So today, we head to that border, where scientists are studying the impact of rising militarization and anti-refugee activity on the region. It's not always easy — because the Polish border guard isn't always keen to hand out the answers these scientists would love to add to their analysis. But Eliot Higgins, the founder of investigative website Bellingcat, says civilians have an edge these days when states won’t answer our questions. We have an unprecedented amount of information at our fingertips — and we're using it to challenge our governments around the world in all kinds of ways.

A NOTE: We’re heartbroken by the sudden Hamas attack on Israelis and by the Israeli airstrikes and devastation in Gaza. Donate to Doctors Without Borders as it continues to offer impartial medical care to those most impacted by war.

GUESTS: Katarzyna Nowak, University of Warsaw; Michał Żmihorski, Mammal Research Institute; Maciej Kisilowski, Central European University; Eliot Higgins, Bellingcat

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

Threats to Conservation From National Security Interests, Katarzyna Nowak, Dinah Bear, Anwesha Dutta, Myles Traphagen, Michał Żmihorski, and Bogdan Jaroszewicz, Conservation Biology

Recognizing Opposition Movements is Riskier Than It Seems, John Reid Wilcox, Inkstick Media

Monitoring the Environmental Consequences of the War in Ukraine, Jon Letman, Inkstick Media

Can National Reconciliation Defeat Populism? Maciej Kisilowski, Anna Wojciuk. Project Syndicate.

Thanks to Sławomir Makaruk for additional field production.

We’re about a year out from a presidential election, and former President Donald Trump is leading the Republican pack in spite of his supporters’ attack on the US Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. The attack reflected the anger and violence that can be stoked by misinformation. But the issue of misinformation has become heavily politicized since the 2016 election and Cambridge Analytica’s use of Facebook data to target divisive messages at segments of the American population. As a result, researchers like Boston University’s Joan Donovan have found themselves subject to intense political and funding pressures. In this episode, we talk with Dr. Donovan about the parallels between Big Tobacco and Big Tech, and what the online misinformation landscape looks like heading into the 2024 elections.

GUESTS:

Dr. Joan Donovan, Assistant Professor, Boston University College of Communication, Division of Emerging Media Studies

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

Harvard Misinformation Expert Joan Donovan Forced to Leave by Kennedy School Dean, Sources Say, The Harvard Crimson

Here Are 4 Key Points From the Facebook Whistleblower’s Testimony on Capitol Hill, National Public Radio

Factsheet 4: Types of Misinformation and Disinformation, United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Social Media Misinformation and the Prevention of Political Instability and Mass Atrocities, The Stimson Center

When we say that we’re going to store something “in the cloud” it sounds like an ethereal place somewhere in the atmosphere. But the online cloud is generated by computer servers in data centers all over the world. Thousands of them. And AI is likely to ramp up demand.

These data centers don’t employ a lot of people, and each one can hoover up the resources of a small town. So what happens when our need for more, better, faster cyber capability collides with our need for land, water, and power?

GUESTS:

Dr. Anne Pasek, Canada Research Chair in Media, Culture and the Environment, Trent University, Canada; Todd Murren, General Manager, Bluebird Network Data Centers; Kelly Gallaher, activist, A Better Mount Pleasant, WI; Mike Gitter, Water Utility Director, Racine, WI

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

The Cloud’s Heavy Toll on Natural Resources, Marketplace Tech

A New Front in the Water Wars:  Your Internet Use, The Washington Post

It’s Not Easy Going Green, Reveal

Data Center Site Selection:  Why Midwestern US Is So Attractive to Hyperscalers, Data Center Knowledge

Presentation on Microsoft’s Data Center Plan for Mount Pleasant, WI, Microsoft.

The Risk of AI Power Grids, Radiolab

The Pros and Cons of Underground Data Centers, Data Center Knowledge

Internet blackouts — when internet service is shut down in a country or region — have become much more common over the last decade. But who gets to decide when these disruptions are necessary? From thwarting political protests to preventing cheating on school exams, we’re diving into the who, what, and why of internet blackouts around the world. And we’re asking… what exactly are the rules here in the US?

GUESTS:

Mazin Riyadh, student at the University of Mosul; Dr. Patricia Vargas, Fellow for the Information Society Project and Fellow for the Internet Society; Zuha Siddiqui, Journalist

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

Internet Shutdowns During Exams, Access Now

Political Factors that Enable an Internet Kill Switch in Democratic and Non-Democratic Regimes, Yale Information Society Project

Pakistan’s 4-day internet shutdown was the final straw for its tech workers, Rest of World

It’s one of our biggest problems in 2023, and it can feel distinctly human. But it's not. All sorts of animals deal with all sorts of misinformation every day, including some of our oldest ancestors — like the humble fish.

This week on Things That Go Boom, we exit the human world entirely to see what we can learn.

Special thanks this week to Christina Stella for pinch-hitting for our engineer, Robin Wise!

GUESTS: Ashkaan Fahimipour, Florida Atlantic University; Jimmy Liao, The University of Florida

ADDITIONAL READING:

Wild Animals Suppress the Spread of Socially Transmitted Misinformation, Ashkaan K. Fahimipour, Michael A. Gil, Maria Rosa Celis, and Andrew M. Hein, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences

Navigating Turbulent Waters, Jimmy Liao, This I Believe

Greg is an artist whose clients include Magic the Gathering and Dungeons and Dragons. And much like a lot of the folks striking in Hollywood right now, he’s ticked off about AI.

It’s a story we hear a lot these days: AI is having an impact on everything in our lives, and it’s killing creators’ livelihoods.

What we don’t hear, though, is what that story has to do with the people seeking asylum in the United States every day.

In this episode, we’ll show you how their lives can be forever changed by similar large language models to the ones used to copy Greg’s art.

GUESTS: Greg Rutkowski, visual artist; Ariel Koren, founder and CEO, Respond Crisis Translation; Uma Mirkhail, Afghan languages team lead, Respond Crisis Translation; Andrew Deck, reporter, Rest of World

THANKS ALSO TO: Leila Lorenzo, policy director, Respond Crisis Translation

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

AI Translation Is Jeopardizing Afghan Asylum Claims, Andrew Deck, Rest of World

Seeking Asylum at the u.s.-Mexico Border? You’d Better Speak English or Spanish, Andrew Deck, Rest of World

Learn about Respond Crisis Translation here.

See more of Greg Rutkowski’s art here.

In the age of Oppenheimer, nuclear weapons didn’t have much to do with computers. And, for a long time, most nukes were running on 1970s-era floppy disk systems. But as technology has advanced the US — and all the other nuclear weapons states — have started putting military communications, early warning systems, and even control of nuclear missiles themselves online. So, in this episode, we ask, “Could our nuclear weapons systems… be hacked?”

We talk to researchers, policy experts, a top UN official, and a hacker about how a nuclear cyber attack might go down. And what we can do to stop it.

GUESTS:

Matt Korda, Senior Research Fellow, Nuclear Information Project; Allison Pytlak, Program Lead of the Cyber Program at the Stimson Center; Page Stoutland, Consultant at the Nuclear Threat Initiative, Maddie Stone, Security Researcher at Google Project Zero; Izumi Nakamitsu, Under-Secretary-General for Disarmament Affairs at the UN Office for Disarmament Affairs

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

Flying Under The Radar: A Missile Accident In South Asia, Federation of American Scientists

Addressing Cyber-Nuclear Security Threats, Nuclear Threat Initiative

Glitch disrupts Air Force nuke communications, NBC News

A 'Worst Nightmare' Cyberattack: The Untold Story Of The SolarWinds Hack, NPR

Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons - Preparatory Committee for the Eleventh Review Conference, UNODA

The Failsafe Review, Nuclear Threat Initiative

We need the internet. No, seriously. In 2023, the digital realm isn’t so much a portal as it is the undercurrent of our lives: The web carries our culture, our communication, our bank accounts — and, yes, our global security.

But all of that traffic flows through a series of cables at the bottom of the ocean. And lately, we’ve been worrying a lot about it up on dry land: Asking what happens when something — or someone — cuts those cables. Should we really be so worried?

This is a story about volcanoes and sharks, entrepreneurs and politicians. It’s also about none of those things. Welcome back to Things That Go Boom.

GUESTS: Nicole Starosielski, New York University; Marian Kupu, Broadcom Broadcasting; Ryan Wopschall, ICPC; Darren Griffiths, Optic Marine; Camino Kavanagh, King’s College London

ADDITIONAL READING:

Inside the Subsea Cable Firm Secretly Helping America Take on China, Joe Brock, Reuters

The Undersea Network, Nicole Starosielski, Duke University Press

Wading Murky Waters: Subsea Communications and Responsible State Behavior, Camino Kavanaugh, United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research

Decoupling is Already Happening Under The Sea, Elisabeth Braw, Foreign Policy