Why does sustainability still sometimes sound like a cost when the business case for it is becoming increasingly clear? 

Sally Uren, Chief Acceleration Officer at Forum for the Future and its former CEO, joins Nik Gowing to explore why sustainability is increasingly creating commercial value  and why the wider story is still struggling to keep up. 

 “The business case has never been stronger.” Sally explains how sustainability can reduce operating costs, improve access to finance, attract and retain talent and create new opportunities for businesses. 

But she argues that “data on its own doesn't shift anything.” 

The energy transition requires more than evidence. It requires changes in mindsets, beliefs and the stories we tell about the future. 

Sally explores the growing importance of “value at risk”, from vulnerable supply chains and climate adaptation to new skills, technology and changing regulation. 

She also explains why businesses need to “shine a light on what’s working” highlighting the innovations and “bright spots” already emerging across renewable energy, nature-based solutions and climate resilience. 

The conversation also explores personal resilience, climate and health, and why the next chapter of the transition will ultimately depend on what people choose to do. 

“We need to share stories of hope and determination and courage.” 

This is a conversation about sustainability, business value, systems change, resilience and the opportunities emerging from a rapidly changing world. 

🌐 Learn more about Thinking the Unthinkable here: https://thinkunthink.org/ 

📄 Full transcript available on our website. 

🎧 Subscribe for more unfiltered conversations with leaders challenging conventional thinking. 

What happens when climate change is an intensifying daily reality?  

Karen-Mae Hill, is High Commissioner for Antigua and Barbuda. Here she joins Nik Gowing to describe the nerve wracking life on the frontline of the climate crisis.  

From hurricanes the size of Texas to coral reef restoration and renewable energy innovation, she describes both the challenges and the opportunities facing Small Island Developing States.  

"When a hurricane impacts an island state, it's the whole country that's gone."  

Yet there are reasons for some optimism.  

"We are doing what we can as a small island developing state."  

This conversation explores climate resilience, sustainable development, leadership and the practical actions needed to create lasting change.  

📄 Full transcript available on our website. 

🎧 Subscribe for more unfiltered conversations with leaders challenging conventional thinking. 

🌐 Learn more about Thinking the Unthinkable here: https://thinkunthink.org/ 

The model that shaped sustainable business for decades is no longer working. 

In this conversation, Aron Cramer explains why “the blueprint… is no longer fit for purpose.” 

 Speaking with TTU’s Nik Gowing, he describes a new reality shaped by fragmentation, instability and rapid change. 

 “We are living in a new environment for business.” 

 The ambition remains. But the way forward must change. 

 “We should not wait for the future to happen to us. We have to shape it.” 

 📄 Full transcript available on our website. 

🎧 Subscribe for more unfiltered conversations with leaders challenging the status quo. 

🌐 Learn more about Thinking the Unthinkable here: https://thinkunthink.org/  

Thinking the unthinkable is not a theoretical exercise. It is a leadership necessity. And most important it is achievable. 

In this conversation, Kylie Porter, a CEO from northern Queensland in Australia, explains how she has done it. “It’s a big hairy topic that must not be avoided,” she tells TTU’s Nik Gowing.  

Her organisation, GW3, is leading the economic transformation away from mining in the city of Mackay. She describes how it did a somersault, moving from resistance to readiness when facing an uncertain future. 

“It’s like flying a plane while building it.” And a main secret was to take her 15 employees – all of them women - on the urgent journey of change. 

There are no perfect models to follow. “We can only manage risk… we can’t eliminate it.” Instead, Kylie outlines the new mindset required to navigate uncertainty: curiosity, persistence, and “a good, big dose of bravery.” 

As global shocks increasingly impact even the most remote regions, the unthinkable must not be regarded as a distant irritation. In Mackay it was already happening. 

In this podcast Kylie Porter sets out a practical blueprint for CEO’s and leaders like her to face the complex unthinkables of profound, long-term change. 

📄 Full transcript available on our website. 

🎧 Subscribe for more unfiltered conversations with leaders challenging the status quo. 

🌐 Learn more about Thinking the Unthinkable here: https://thinkunthink.org/  

🎧 Listen to our podcast on Spotify here: https://shorturl.at/onLxw 

🎧 Or Apple podcasts here: https://shorturl.at/xS9B7o. 

The energy transition is no longer a distant goal. It is being accelerated by real-world pressures. In this conversation, veteran activist and campaigner Tony Juniper says “I’m more optimistic than I’ve ever been for some time.” He explains that climate change is now much more than an environmental issue. It is “very evidently a question of financial stability, of food security, of geopolitical stability.”As global instability reshapes priorities, the debate around energy is shifting. “Replacing fossil fuels with fossil fuels is not really the best choice.” So “the best choice is to displace fossil fuels with renewables.” Speaking with Nik Gowing, Juniper sets out why this moment is driving a more decisive move towards clean energy and why he is optimistic despite some “truly catastrophic realities”. The direction is clear. The challenge is pace.📄 Full transcript available on our website.🎧 Subscribe for more unfiltered conversations with leaders challenging the status quo.🌐 Learn more about Thinking the Unthinkable here: https://thinkunthink.org/ 🎧 Listen to our podcast on Spotify here: https://shorturl.at/onLxw🎧 Or Apple podcasts here: https://shorturl.at/xS9B7o.

Stop Mopping the Floor. Turn Off the Tap. 

In this upbeat conversation Kumi Naidoo, President of the Fossil Fuel Treaty Initiative, argues that we have spent 30 years treating the symptoms of climate change while protecting its root cause. 

From a funeral for a glacier to the Fossil Fuel Treaty, this is a conversation about activism, arts, democracy and why courageous hope is now both essential and achievable. 

“We have been wiping the floor without turning off the tap,” he tells our Thinking the Unthinkable podcast..  

Eighty six percent of emissions still come from fossil fuels. Yet global negotiations continue to produce what Kumi calls outcomes full of loopholes. 

He underscores that the crisis is not environmental. It is systemic. But activism is mobilising new positives. “We need courageous hope” and this is happening. 

Energy. Finance. Food. Transport. Power. 

He also warns that the climate, biodiversity and nature movement is severely held back by a communications deficit. 

Facts are not enough. People respond to loss. To the impact on children. To a lack of imagination. But arts and culture are showing a new way.  

Listen to the full conversation. 

Find out more about TtU here: https://thinkunthink.org/

In this latest episode of Thinking the Unthinkable podcast, Helle Bank Jørgensen explains why boards are falling behind, even when they think they’re being prudent.“Familiarity creates a powerful illusion. It reassures boards that time is on their side.”But it is not. That illusion comes at a cost. Boards are being destabilised by the pinball effect, with shocks bouncing them unpredictably in every direction. And they are not prepared for this“By the time we have done all of that, we are actually too late.”This conversation explores why waiting feels safe but it should not be. Boards must do much more to prepare for when disruption hits them. Helle poses ten brutal questions their members must ask themselves to prepare for disruption hitting them.“As a board member, I might not know everything, but I’m still responsible.” So asking these questions is vital.Watch the full discussion.

After the disappointment of the COP30 communique, Simon Sharpe cuts through the noise with a very different message: “Reality is way ahead of negotiations.” 

In this TTU podcast, Simon unwraps optimism. He explains why “twice as much is going to be invested into clean energy… than into fossil fuels” this year. Last year “over 90% of the new power generating capacity… was renewables.”  

Simon is both a visionary and challenger of orthodoxy. He sets out the practical actions that matter now.   

The big principle? “First build, then break.” Build the new clean systems first, then the old fossil-fuel-based systems will eventually fall away.  

“You do not need 198 countries to change the economy.” There is a more productive way to achieve results “Focus the diplomacy on problem solving rather than goal setting.”  

“If you want to beat the fossil fuels… you have to destroy demand for them.” 

EVs already “about 20% of global car sales, up from about 2% only six years ago.” 

 Simon also highlights the successes achieved by much smaller, but highly influential coalitions. Various deals bringing together China, India, Brazil and the EU, show how precisely targeted regulation can shift global markets years faster than what huge multilateral negotiations achieve.  

This is a clear, compelling, and positive conversation about what is actually working and why it must be accelerated.  

📄 Full transcript available on our website. 

🎧 Subscribe for more conversations on leadership in a disrupted world. 

“Dream Mad. Dream Crazy”  

It’s bold. It’s brave. And it works.  

In this inspiring episode, Inder Poonaji, Director of ESG and Sustainability at Modulaire, explains why achieving the radical progress needed depends on imagination, courage, unlimited risk, and practical action.  

Hs has basic core principles. “When you let people's imagination run, they can do things where they're not limited.” . . . “Design in sustainability, design out waste.” . . .“Perfection is the enemy of progress.” . . .“If you aim for the stars, you'll touch the moon along the way.”  

From “loops within loops” in circular design to the need for collaboration across industries, Inder has achieved proof of concept for a revolution of ideas and the way to achieve a new mindset for change. 

 
📩 Get in touch: [email protected] 

#futurism #sustainability #leadership

COP30 should be raising hopes.  

In this upbeat conversation, Sarah Mukherjee, CEO of the Institute of Sustainability and Environmental Professionals, explains why pursuing sustainability creates a boon for businesses. Sustainability is not about restriction. It is about adaptation, innovation, and growth.  

“Less than 2% say their sustainability budgets have decreased,” Sarah tells TTU. 
“If you switch the lights off when you leave the office, you’re not only saving carbon. You’re saving money.” 

With 21,000 members worldwide, Sarah shares real data. It shows how businesses are actively investing in sustainability because it makes sense. She and Nik explore how to reframe the narrative from doom to opportunity. Then how small, practical changes are achieving big impact.  

🎧 Take a look at more of our episodes: thinkunthink.org/podcast 
📩 Get in touch: [email protected]