In this week's episode, Jeremi and Zachary are joined by John Sipher to discuss intelligence and the ways in which US intelligence agencies collect information on China and Russia.

Zachary sets the scene with his poem entitled, "Conceiving the Spies Lament."

John Sipher retired in 2014 after a 28-year career in the Central Intelligence Agency’s National Clandestine Service. At the time of his retirement, he was a member of the CIA’s Senior Intelligence Service, the leadership team that guides CIA activities globally. John served multiple overseas tours as Chief of Station and Deputy Chief of Station in Europe, Asia, and in high-threat environments. John also served as a lead instructor in the CIA’s clandestine training school and was a regular lecturer at the CIA’s leadership development program.