Is music an extravagance in a world of scarcity or a necessary expression of our humanity? We explore Mozi’s consequentialist condemnation of elaborate musical performances and Xunzi’s argument that music, proper guided, plays a critical role in taming unruly emotions and building social bonds. Beneath the disagreement lies a profound clash over basic human goods, how emotion should be shaped, and whether the arts are dispensable or essential to human flourishing.

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, we explore Zhu Xi’s striking account of how to read philosophical and other important texts with what he calls “reverential attention.” Blending close reading with reflections on learning, character, and distraction in modern life, we discuss how Zhu Xi tries to make reading simultaneously transformative and objective. The discussion raises a fascinating puzzle at the heart of Zhu’s approach: how can we personalize our reading so that it shapes us, while also preventing our own biases from distorting the text?

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

Early in Chinese history, a number of political thinkers developed sophisticated arguments for relying on consistent application of laws rather than the personal discretion of political authorities to govern the state. In this episode, we explore the arguments of one of the early pioneers of this way of thinking, Shen Dao  慎到  (c. 350-275 BCE). We are joined by a leading expert on Shen Dao and Chinese Legalism, Eirik Lang Harris.

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

• 7:39: Preface on Chinese Legalism, or
• 15:13: Part II: Shen Dao on Law

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, we continue our exploration of Mohist impartial caring (jian'ai 兼愛) by examining two of Mencius’s most influential objections: (1) the “Without a Father” Argument (Mencius 3B9) and (2) the “Two Roots” Argument (Mencius 3A5).

Along the way, we take up some important questions: Should moral values be impartial even between family members and total strangers? Is radical impartiality incompatible with being human? And should ethics be grounded in rational doctrine or in human nature?

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

This episode examines the Mohist doctrine of impartial caring (jian'ai) via two arguments in the Mozi -- the Caretaker Argument and the Filial Piety Argument. We examine the arguments' logical structure, psychological plausibility, and practical applicability. We also discuss the importance of reciprocity, and competing interpretations of "impartial caring," from the less demanding don't-harm-anyone interpretation to stronger equal-concern readings, setting them against the Confucian model of care with distinctions (graded love). We also consider what genuine filiality requires and how different moral frameworks shape familial and social practices.

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Want to skip to the philosophical content?

   4:01 Preface to today's topic: arguments for impartial caring (jian'ai 兼愛)

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

According to a speaker in a famous historical dialogue, "A white horse is not a horse." In this episode, we’re joined by Dr. Lisa Indraccolo (Associate Professor, Tallinn University) to unpack one of the most intriguing discourses in early Chinese philosophy—the White Horse Dialogue from the Gongsun Longzi. Together, we explore what this paradoxical statement reveals about language, logic, and categorization in early China, from the connection between words and reality to the ways that set theory, semantics, and metaphysics might be used to help us understand this fascinating text.

Lisa Indraccolo's professional website.

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, we delve into Chapter 80 of the Daodejing, one of the most vivid portraits of Daoist social ideals. We unpack its vision of a “simple agrarian utopia,” where people live in small communities, ignore labor-saving tools, and resist the endless chase for more. Along the way, we discuss political minimalism, technological restraint, contentment in daily life, and radical localism, asking what it would mean to be satisfied even while knowing other or "better" possibilities exist. We reflect on our own consumerist culture, and probe whether Daoist utopia is naive, radical, or unexpectedly wise for our time.

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Want to skip to the philosophical content?

13:15  Preview of today's passage: chapter 80 of the Daodejing
18:03 Part II -- Daoist utopia

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

With a big assist from our guest, Stephen C. Walker, we discuss a highly unusual philosophical dialogue in classical Chinese literature, the "Robber Zhi Dialogue" (from the Miscellaneous Chapters of the Zhuangzi). This shocking story shows Confucius attempting to convince the story's anti-hero (Robber Zhi) to give up his vicious ways. By the end of the story, Confucius emerges as the more naive and inauthentic of the two characters, and moral exemplars in general are called into question. Are purveyors of morality also robbers themselves?

Stephen C. Walker's research page

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, Justin and Richard discuss how historical Confucian philosophers have proposed to recognize people of good moral character (virtue). How, exactly, did they think that we could tell the real virtues apart from the phony ones? And what did the historical Confucians think about the use of written examination essays to "test" for virtue? 

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

8:29 Part II -- Confucianism on character assessment

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

What sort of vision of the good life does Confucius recommend? In this episode, we explore one of the most intriguing passages in the Analects (11.26), where Confucius asks four disciples about their deepest aspirations. Three students offer increasingly modest political goals—from Zilu's grand vision of governing a besieged state to Zihua's humble wish to serve as a minor functionary in ritual ceremonies. But a fourth student, the musical Zengxi, describes something completely different: a spring day spent with friends and younger students, bathing in the Yi River, enjoying the breeze at the Rain Dance Altar, and returning home singing.

Confucius's response—a deep sigh and "I am with Zengxi!"—reveals surprising insights about Confucian approaches to happiness and human flourishing. We examine why the Master favors this vision of ritual performed naturally and relationships lived wholeheartedly over more conventional paths to recognition and success. Does this passage suggest that political work misses the point entirely? Or does Zengxi's answer represent a different kind of political vision—one focused on community, joy in ritual, and human relationships as the foundation of social order and good governance?

Drawing on historical commentary from the Confucian tradition and contemporary scholarship, we unpack why this passage has captivated readers for centuries and what it reveals about the relationship between personal fulfillment and social harmony.

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

7:57 Preview of today's topic, or
10:48 Part II -- The good life in the Analects

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website