Tough Things First

Rob Artigo: One thing I want to talk about today is, or the main topic here today is about fear, because fear ends up being a guide for a lot of people. And I mean a guide to nothingness, a guide to non-productive activities, a guide to isolation, a guide to avoidance, all those things. It all stems from fear. And I think that a lot of people can relate to that. Just simply deciding you’re not going to do something because you have some fear there lingering. I think you like to say refuse to let fear decide what you attempt or achieve. Is that fair to say?

Ray Zinn: Exactly.

Rob Artigo: Let me start with this. Have you ever experienced a situation where fear was something that you had to overcome in order to attempt or try something that you wanted to do, but you were reluctant to do because there was a certain amount of fear involved?

Ray Zinn: Absolutely. In 1994 when I took the company public, I lost my eyesight. I became legally blind. And so doing the conference calls that we did once a quarter, that was a real fearful thing. I mean, it just became almost comatose over that because I couldn’t see well and I tried to say, oh, can I remember everything that I need to know in order to present the information about the company? And so when I lost my eyesight, I really, really ran into this problem of fear almost took over. I can’t drive. I listen to all the things I can’t do and that really caused me to go actually into a deep depression. What I did to come out of it is I said, rather than focus on what I can’t do, let me focus on what I can do. And so I let that be the driving force of let me do this because I can do it.

And that built my confidence, and I was able to overcome this lack of vision by just focusing on what I could do, not what I thought I couldn’t do. That became the driving force for me, take courage to not let some problem or dilemma affect my ability to accomplish whatever tasks I wanted to succeed. It’s a matter of focusing on what you can do, not what you can’t do.

Rob Artigo: Is this a place where we can write down those things that we fear and just work on them so that they’re not holding me back, so I can get through and do it. Like in your situation, just the mere threat of potentially going blind would make most people, it’d be a showstopper kind of fear, just an absolute abject fear that you have no control over it. It’s coming at you in a wave and yours was very sudden decline in your vision. And the more sudden it is, the more fear it generates because there’s so much unknown involved.

Should we make a list of these things as we go along and say, is there something I can do to overcome this fear? I mean, fear of speaking in public, as a leader, you want to be able to do that and not everybody has that confidence or that skill to speak in public. I’m a radio guy and there are times when I go to stand at a podium and go to talk and I’m really nervous. But the fear doesn’t stop me from doing it.

Ray Zinn: Well, there’s a program they called Fear Factor, which is this program where these contestants would come on and the host would try to come up with these different fears and see if people would overcome them. In other words, it might be going into a dark room, it might be a height, it might be something eat like snails or something that sounds grotesque. So the whole concept was who can overcome these fears? And that’s what they refer to as fear factor. There is that fear factor. All of us have that fear of something, whether it be height, whether it be speaking in public. But that’s because we focus on it. So rather than focusing on our fears, focus on what we can do, focus on the positive aspects of it, not just something we can procrastinate because fear then starts generating procrastination and procrastination is really doomed to failure.

And so having this fear factor, which we all have some, is a challenge and we talk about it in my books is overcoming fear by doing, attempting to do things you don’t want to do. That’s the key is to overcoming fear is to do things that you don’t want to do because we let that drive our success or how well we can succeed is they say, “Well, I have a fear of this. I have a fear of that.” Rather than say you have a fear of it, say you have an affinity for it and you go from there. So driving yourself to eliminate fear, being courageous is the key. Whether you have a fear of heights or whether you have fear of a fire or drowning or whatever your fear is, focus on what you can do, not on what you can’t do.

Rob Artigo: It’s a mindset, but it’s also sometimes the fear is just there. And we talk about endurance, having a life that endures is enduring those moments of fear. I know people who have done some pretty amazing, very, very brave things, but they were scared doing them. But they feared for their life. Nobody wants to face death, but they did it and they were scared the whole time and people, “Man, you were really brave.” You go, “Yeah, but I was really scared.” But I manage that experience just like you did with going blind. I think that the hard part for people to understand is that it’s okay to… You can’t control if the fear is there suddenly, but you can contain it. You can work through it if you approach it the right way, right?

Ray Zinn: I call it managing. You manage your fears. You’re not trying to disavow them or you’re not trying to feel that you can’t do it. You just acknowledge it and you work with that fear. And then you say, “Well, how do I best it? How do I overcome it? How do I manage it?” And that’s the key, whether it be running a company or whether it be taking on a new job or getting married or whatever it is, you manage it by acknowledging the fact that there is that fear and that concern, but you control it by managing it.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. You just stick around. If it lingers, then you have a whole different situation going on. Join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Your questions and comments are always welcome. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And of course, pick up the books. Tough Things First, The Essential Leader, Zen of Zinn series one, two, and three, and Ray’s new book, Zen of Zinn Daily. Until next time, do the tough things first, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Let’s do it.

From Covid to hurricanes and supply chains, there is no telling what you and your company may face, but just because it is unpredictable and sudden, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be prepared. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn explores the challenges and solutions of the wild circumstances you are likely to face when you least expect it.

Rob Artigo: Ray, today we’re talking about something every leader eventually faces, unanticipated change. That’s the kind of change that hits fast. It disrupts everything and can feel like the start of a doom spiral if you’re not careful, but it doesn’t have to be a doom spiral. It’s a crisis that has to be managed and endured. But a key here is being prepared. I think that’s going to be something that you’re going to bring up. I want to set this up with the real world example of diesel prices right now, the sharp rise of diesel costs, driving up shipping costs across the board. It means higher prices for materials, deliveries, squeezed margins of pressure on customers who suddenly can’t afford what they could afford just maybe a couple of months ago. It’s the kind of economic shift that no one put on the calendar.

One day, fuel’s manageable. The next day, it’s a line-item problem that touches almost everything you do. So let’s start… When something like a sudden spike in fuel and shipping costs lands on your desk, something you couldn’t plan for in the first place, what’s the first thing a leader should do so it doesn’t turn into a panic or a paralysis?

Ray Zinn: Well, because we talk about everything being wonderful and nothing ever going wrong, but that’s just not the way life is. Life has unexpected changes and challenges that we face every single day. As they say, you plan your life as though there’s never going to be a disaster, but you live your life as though there’s going to be one tomorrow. So you got to be ready. You have to be focused on what’s going to happen and being anticipatory of calamities and changes that can and will affect you. It might be a loss of a leader in your company. It might be a health issue that you face that could be economic downturn. And as we talked about just now, or if you’re a shipping company and you rely heavily on diesel fuel to move your goods, that could be a real challenge. And so all challenges and difficult problems as you would, are difficult to deal with, but that’s running a company.

Ray Zinn cont: Just assure yourself that running your company is going to be a challenge, that you’re going to have these unexpected challenges that come up and you have to be prepared for them. So you want to build in enough margin in your product line. And this is that thing we talked about before, Rob, about companies that grow too fast. What they do is they price themselves really low. They don’t worry about margin because their investors are more concerned about revenue growth and not about profitability. But if you are doing the tough things first or if you’re being an essential leader and being an enduring leader, you want to have margin. You want to have enough profitability built into your revenue stream that you can endure these unexpected changes, whether it be an economic downturn, which can last a couple of years. They can be as short as six months, but average is about a year and a half.

So in this particular case, we have this diesel shortage that’s been kind of with us for the last three months. You just have to be able to hang in there. You got to have that margin built into your business such that you can endure the pain of the higher cost of fuel or whatever else that might be impacting your business. So growing fast, that sounds good. I mean, everybody claps and said, “Oh, look how fast they’re doubling revenue and they’re just going right, doing fantastic.” But when a calamity hits, their revenue drops off like a rock, then their margins are zero and maybe negative because they’re trying to grow revenue and they’re sacrificing margin for revenue growth. And then that ends up coming back to bite them.

Rob Artigo: Well, you alluded to this. I know that, talk about being prepared, but interest rates move, a key supplier has problems, a customer base shrinks overnight and these tariffs, you never know when those are going to change. The specific change is, I mean, might be different each time, but the disruption is the same. You ran Micrel for 37 years, you’ve seen multiple economic cycles. When the numbers suddenly look different than they did last quarter, how do you separate the temporary noise from the real structural problems that need attention?

Ray Zinn: Building margin into your business so that your company’s profitable and highly profitable, the biggest deterrent to having a difficult situation in your company when an economic or some other calamity hits your business. It’s those companies that are just, revenues are going out of sight, they’re tripling, quadrupling revenue, and they do that by sacrificing margin. They just say, “We’re not going to worry about our profitability right now because most investors know when you’re a startup or they prefer you grow your revenue like crazy and they say heck with margin.” Well, the investor’s not running your company, you are. And so the companies that really have difficulty during a downturn are companies that are sacrificing margin for revenue growth.

Rob Artigo: Well, let’s shift to a different kind of unanticipated change, one that feels more personal inside of a company. You mentioned this and I thought it was a great note to put in here and to focus on, the loss of a critical employee, not one who is easily replaced, but a person who maybe holds key relationships, deep institutional knowledge, or a skillset the other team members really rely on or depend on. One day they’re there, the next day they’re not. It could be illness, resignation, retirement or something else. The work still has to get done. How do you keep that from becoming a crisis that ripples through the whole organization?

Ray Zinn: Well, having that duplicity, not having that capability all circled into one individual. Relying on just one person, whether it be yourself or one of your critical teammates, you have to have some duplication. And so I had that happen to us in 2005 when my partner got really ill and it looked like that was going to be a real disaster for us, but we had enough duplication that we were able to carry on. There were some changes we had to make, but they weren’t so significant that it hurt the company.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. I think we’ve talked before about being prepared, preparing your organization for an eventual transition. You always want to have a plan in place just in case and then have people that are groomed to have the knowledge so that there isn’t much of a disruption. There’s always going to be a disruption when a key person is gone. But what should a leader do in the first few days or weeks so the remaining team doesn’t feel abandoned or overwhelmed and so the business doesn’t stall while you figure out what the long-term answer is going to be?

Ray Zinn: Well, by having a positive attitude. The one thing that I like to focus on is being happy even during a disaster or during a difficult time. So as I say, look for the positive, accentuate the positive, not the negative as that song goes. A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down. So if you remain happy or remain positive, may not remain upbeat, that keeps the team motivated and excited. And even though you’re facing this major dilemma, you’re not letting it impact the morale of the organization. What you do is during a downturn or during a difficult period, try to find something positive to focus on, whether it be this increased diesel cost, look at the upside and be happy. That’s the key really to keep the team motivated and keep them excited because if you go into the dumps as you would or you get down on the organization, it’ll affect them.

And of course, as we all know, negativity actually hurts the company, not anything else. It’s really the attitude of the company that will remain strong if it’s the right kind of attitude. So that’s what I did at Micrel for 37 years, was I remained upbeat, remained positive, remained solid behind what we were doing, always acting enthusiastic, acting energetic, not hiding as you would in the closet, being out there with them, patting them on the back, telling them how great things are, wonderful things are. They want to hear that. People want to hear good news. They don’t want to hear bad news. And so try to find good news inside of this dilemma or this transition that you’re facing.

Rob Artigo: Let’s look at natural disasters. The Gulf Coast is still reeling from another hurricane, but we also have fires. We have plenty of them here in California. There are earthquakes. There’s other kinds of severe weather that happens. Facilities get damaged or they become inaccessible. People get displaced. Supply lines are cut. Customers in affected areas are unable to operate. And if you’re manufacturing, some places can’t manufacture. So that part gets affected. Suddenly the entire operating environment has changed and you may not even know the full extent of the damage for days. How does a leader approach something like that differently from an economic shift or a loss of an employee? And what does managing and enduring actually look like when parts of the business are literally offline or destroyed?

Ray Zinn: It’s interesting that really these disasters really are very upbeat because people jump in and help each other. If you take, whether it be the earthquake or the hurricane or whatever, when people jump in and help, plowing through the rubble to find people alive or removing trees. And I remember when we had that one bad one several years ago, people from miles and miles around brought their trucks in and helped clean up. I think it was Katrina. I think it was Hurricane Katrina. People from surrounding areas jumped in and brought chainsaws and that’s a very upbeat thing. When people help each other, that’s very upbeat. That’s very positive. And so the key is, is that staying upbeat, staying positive, helping others, not worrying about yourself, focusing on others as you would is the key to managing through a difficult situation.

Rob Artigo: Across all of these different kinds of disruptions, the diesel prices, and shipping costs, losing a key person, or natural disasters, the common thread seems to be that the change arrives unannounced and creates real disruption. And it can feel like the start of a downward spiral, if leaders treat it that way anyway. But you’ve always said that the tough things are the ones that build lasting success. So as we close out here, what’s the mindset shift as a leader that a leader has to make right in the middle of this thing to manage it and I guess seize the moment so the team sees it as a crisis to be managed and endured rather than end of story? And I know you mentioned having a positive attitude, but I mean that might be the tough thing that you have to do because in the face of things, it’s hard to have that, put on that air of being positive.

Ray Zinn: Well, you just said it. I mean the whole success formula for overcoming a dilemma is to remain upbeat, and happy, and positive, looking on the bright side as opposed to woe is me, getting down because your attitude as a leader really will impact those with whom you work.

Rob Artigo: For our listeners, I sure would like to invite them to toughthingsfirst.com. Questions and comments are welcome there. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and of course pick up the books Tough Things First, The Essential Leader, and the Zen of Zinn series one, two, and three, including Ray’s book, the Zen of Zinn Daily. Until next time, do the tough things first, right Ray?

Ray Zinn: Let’s do it.

There are no time-outs on the path to excellence. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn, Silicon Valley’s longest serving CEO, discusses longevity and why engaging your body and your brain in some form of work daily will help live longer and have a more satisfying and successful life.

Rob Artigo: Ray, I want to talk about something that is near and dear to your heart because you’re a guy who has… I can’t remember a time when you weren’t working. Go back to when you were on the farm, you were working and then you’ve worked and then you retired from Micrel after 37 years and yet you keep on working. So really the point of this podcast is never stop working. You’d like to say that there are no timeouts on the path to excellence. Tell me what you mean by that.

Ray Zinn: Well, we just have to consider ourselves as being able to live forever as you would. So to live forever means you got to work forever. The Bible said that God told Adam he had to work all the days of his life. I took that to heart. And so even though I sold the company in 2015, I actually became even busier. I wrote more books. I funded a company called ZinnStarter and I teach at various universities from time to time. And I just keep promoting effort, trying to keep the legacy alive as opposed to, “Oh, I remember Ray Zinn.” You want to be current. I know Ray Zinn is because I remember him. Even though I will turn 90 next year, I still keep going as though I’m in my 20s.

Ray Zinn cont: I’ve actually held a job since I’ve been 12, I mean a paying job. I don’t get paid so much now because I don’t have a revenue stream that pays me, but I do enjoy still doing things, whether we writing church hymns or writing books. In fact, we’re working on my seventh book right now. And also, we do these podcasts. We produce one or two a week and I still teach and ZinnStarter is like a Kickstarter for universities, has continued to get traction. We keep adding more and more schools to the program. When I roll over and give up the ghost, as they say, it won’t be because I was laying in bed, it’s because I was fell over working. I don’t want to be ever known as someone who’s taking it easy.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. The term that comes to mind is dying with your boots on in the act of working and living. I wonder if some of the conversations I’ve had recently with people who run businesses and have to hire younger and younger people or as time goes by, the staff gets older and then new people are coming in and they’re younger, they’re from different generations. Are you seeing a change in the generations now, the up and coming generations where the never-stop-working is more of a never start working attitude?

Ray Zinn: Yeah. I don’t know why these kids now, these younger people are seeking to live at home, look for jobs that are online. I can remember teaching a class several years ago in the Bay Area. When I came to the class to teach it, I was wearing a suit and these kids were all in their pajamas laying on bean bags.

Rob Artigo: Oh, God.

Ray Zinn: I just can’t get over that attitude. If you’re not dressed for work, you’re not working. And so oftentimes when we work from home or online, our hair’s not combed, we’re not shaven or we’re not dressed, we’re in our pajamas. We have a very lackadaisical attitude and COVID really caused this problem. People just absolutely quit working.

Well, I understand working online, you don’t have to commute and you’re still able to stay home and in a more relaxed atmosphere, we tend to get too relaxed. We tend to not take what we’re doing seriously. So if you are working online, get yourself cleaned up, get your hair combed, get yourself shaven or get yourself dressed properly. Even though you’re not online video wise, camera wise, your attitude changes when you get ready to work. Let’s get ready for work. Let’s get ready for work. Let’s not just go to work. So that’s the key is that people ask me, “Are you retired?” And I said, “Well, in a sense of the word, I don’t have a job where I get a monthly income. Yeah, I don’t do that, but I’m still working. I work at least eight to 10 hours a day, even though I’m not getting a regular paycheck.”

So I can tell you that my TV does not come on until around 7:00 at night where I will tend to watch a little news and sit back and relax for a couple hours before I go into bed. But I don’t watch TV during the daytime. I don’t do social media. I’m doing something. I make a list of every morning of what I want to get done for the day and then I tackle that. It drives me nuts not to have something to do because I don’t feel like I’m productive even though, as I mentioned, I turn 90 next year and yet I have no intention of laying back and taking it easy.

Rob Artigo: I did radio for 20 years and one of the early lessons I learned was smile when you’re on the radio and people are like, “Well, there’s no camera. Why would you need to smile?” Well, the smile reflects in what you sound like on the air. Your smile shows more energy. When people are listening, they hear more upbeat sounds and you feel positive too. So like you said, if you’re dressed right and you’re prepared, if you’re acting like it’s an important thing that you’re doing, then that is going to be reflected. And particularly if you’re online and you have to do video calls or podcasts like this, that you’re representing something that really reflects what you intend it to be.

Because if you sit on the couch and turn on your TV at noon, you’re not going to move, you’re not going to be productive. And that happens when people are working from home a lot is they end up being less productive because they’re doing their work in front of the TV.

Ray Zinn: Well, what I do do is I get up at six every morning. I begin exercising and exercise for an hour. Then I get cleaned up, wash my hair, shave, get myself all ready, dress up nice. We’re on video. This is the worst I dress. This is the way I look. Even I’m going to go out and milk the cows as you would. I dress up for every day and then I eat my breakfast and then get ready to do my chores that I want to get accomplished for the day. I do that until 6:00 at night when I have my dinner and then I slow down a little bit in the evening, maybe turn on a little TV and then get ready to go to bed and get a good night’s rest. I always go to bed by 10:00 and then I wake up at 6:00. So I get a good eight hours and I think that will help me physically.

So again, if you’re going to want to have a fulfilling life, don’t cut back. Don’t relax just because you’re not getting a monthly paycheck or a weekly paycheck.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. And if you are one of those people who feel like you want to stay home and not do anything, then perhaps you need to rethink your plan for the future probably because you don’t have a plan. So that’s another topic for another day and we will cover that here on Tough Things First. Join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Your questions and comments are always welcome there. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And of course, pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First, The Essential Leader, and the Zen of Zinn series one, two, and three, including Ray’s book, Zen of Zinn Daily. Until next time, do the tough things first. Right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Let’s do it.

Plan all you want, but if you do not intend to finish you probably lack the discipline to get it done in the first place. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn explores the elements that turn ideas or desires into realities.

Rob Artigo: Ray, I hear people talking about discipline, and sometimes they just say they picture a drill sergeant or something like that. You use a plainer definition: discipline is doing what you don’t like doing and doing it well. Is that the whole of it, or is mastery of something past just forcing the task?

Ray Zinn: Well, the definition of doing what you don’t like doing and doing it well is the key. It’s not the plan; it’s just the key. The key is to be able to have that disciplined nature that you’re not going to be going to be caught off guard, that you’re going to do the tough things first and get those out of the way. Don’t procrastinate. Learning not to procrastinate. Having that persistent discipline is key. It’s built into your nature.

It’s like I talk about my regiment in my life is I eat my meals, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, at exactly the same time every day. And then I exercise in the morning, first thing when I get up. So I have this regimen, I have this disciplined approach to my life. I spend time with my family, part of my discipline. And then I also focus on doing the tough things first in the morning, very disciplined on that, getting those out of the way.

In fact, I just did that this morning. I had something I didn’t want to do, but because I didn’t want to do it, I went ahead and did it because otherwise I’d just put it off. Doing the tough things first is key, having a disciplined life. I often refer to it as loving the things you hate. So if there’s something I don’t want to do or hate doing, I’ll do it first, or I’ll keep doing it until I master it.

Waldo Emerson said, “That which we persist in doing becomes easier, not that the nature of the task changes, but our ability to perform it becomes easier.” So that’s the key.

It’s like learning to play an instrument. When I sat down and learned to play the piano, it was like playing “Chopsticks.” And I thought, “Well, this is not playing the piano.” But when you persist in doing it, when you develop that discipline, practicing every day for at least a half an hour, you’ll learn to play the piano well or whatever other instrument you intended to do. Being disciplined is not necessarily like playing video games; it’s not fun, but it is enjoyable. Meaning that once you get it out of the way, you go, “Man, I’m glad I did that, got that done.” And so there’s that relief, that joy that you feel when you do conquer something that you otherwise were dreading.

Rob Artigo: At Micrel, you held this standard that you were just describing here for 37 years. You didn’t just do it one morning; you did it for 37 years, and you did it beyond that, because we know that after you left Micrel, you’ve been doing it, and before you got to Micrel, you were doing that. So how does a leader master discipline without making it part of their… You were sort of alluding to it just a moment ago, which is making it a… You can make it a mood. So how do you master discipline without turning it into a “mood”?

Ray Zinn: Well, the drudgery thing, if you dread something, as I said, learning to love the things you hate. And so I can’t think of anything that I hate. I mean, I go to the dentist, and I don’t look forward to the numbing aspect of it, but I’m looking forward to getting the problem resolved. So rather than looking on the negative, don’t focus on the anesthesia or an anesthetic; look at the outcome. In other words, focus on the positive: “Oh, I’m going to get rid of that toothache,” or “I’m going to get rid of that problem in my gums,” or whatever. Focus on the positive, not the negative.

As I mentioned about, I don’t like to get that shot in my jaw, in my cheek or whatever to numb me, but I’m focusing on, “Boy, I’m sure going to be glad to get rid of that toothache,” or whatever. Focus on the positive and not the negative. And that’s what I do when I tackle something that I don’t want doing. I say, “Okay, let’s look at the pros, the positives of what it is I’m doing, and then it won’t bother me so much to look at the negative aspects of having to go through it.” Whether it might be laying off an employee, or whether it may be changing customers, whether it may be having to redo your product line, a lot of those are just terrible, drudgery things that you have to do. But if you look at the positive aspect of having get rid of an employee, the headcount cost goes down, you may find a better replacement, you might get rid of a toothache at the company, as you would. Look at the positive aspect of it.

Rob Artigo: It’s pretty common that people get fatigued towards the end of the day. Where does discipline usually break down later when maybe the hard things are done, like you dealt with the tough things first, and then things get a little bit easier as a day go by as far as the things you want to do, and you’re working on those things? Where does it break down when something changes, when there’s an easy exception that all of a sudden shows up?

Ray Zinn: Well, part of the discipline is knowing your body, knowing who you are, and how much you can handle. If you find yourself getting fatigued, if you’re finding yourself running out of gas, take a break, back off, because all you’re going to do is dig yourself deeper in the problem. So you want to make sure that you know your body, you know what you can handle, know your mindset.

For example, let’s suppose your fit as a fiddle, but you got a big problem at home. That’s going to be weighing on your mind. So if that’s weighing on your mind to the point where you’re getting distracted, go home and solve the problem. Get rid of the toothache, as you would. Rather than just dealing with the toothache, get rid of it. Don’t just put it off. The key to really being a good, disciplined person is knowing yourself, knowing who you are, what you can do, and what you can’t do, and then just pacing yourself.

Rob Artigo: I’ve heard that a boom is maybe a worse test than a bust. So in a downturn, you have to be careful. Of course, you know that you’re in a downturn, you’re really careful about the decisions that you make. It’s like flying, let’s use the flying analogy. You’re flying, it’s a little stormy, you’re paying a lot more close attention to the controls. But when it’s going easy, you can sit there and, I don’t know, I want to say rest on your laurels because you got all that responsibility of flying, but at the same time, you have to maintain discipline even when the orders are strong.

Ray Zinn: No, I know exactly what you’re saying. When things are always going wonderfully, we tend to get lazy. We tend to lose that discipline, that edge that we need, that sharp edge. It’s kind of like keeping all those knives in your drawer sharp: once they get really bad, then it’s hard to resharpen them. So staying fit as a fiddle, as you would, mentally and physically, spiritually, that will keep you on your plan, on your target, whatever it is you’re trying to accomplish.

It’s true that sometimes boom times make us complacent. We get used to everything going wonderfully, and we’re not prepared when things go south. So when they do go south, we’re thrown off our game. Now, it doesn’t mean you want to look for problems and force yourself to be in a bad condition or a bad situation, but certainly having bad times does keep you sharp. It keeps you on your game. I hate to say pray for challenges, but that’s kind of what you do. If you don’t have problems and challenges that you’re constantly working on, you’re going to get a little rusty.

Rob Artigo: Some people think that the talented folks on the team get a pass, the gifted engineer, the rainmaker, the person who delivers and also kind of cuts corners. Did you discipline those folks the same way as someone else who wasn’t maybe as efficient, or did you just treat everybody exactly the same?

Ray Zinn: No, you treat everybody equally as far as in an equal sense. You don’t try to give one person an advantage over another. You try to be fair, and you recognize their strengths and their weaknesses. That’s the key to understanding and knowing your people is knowing what their strengths and weaknesses are so you don’t play to their weaknesses, you play to their strengths.

I’ve had employees where I had a lot of family problems, and that’s a weakness, but I didn’t play to it. I gave them an opportunity to resolve it so they could get back on track. Because if I pushed them to solve the company problem while they were having family problems, that was a losing battle; too many mistakes get made. If you don’t repair a mistake or problem, all you’re going to do is create more, because small problems become big problems, ultimately.

Rob Artigo: That goes to the ministering and also the hand on the shoulder thing that you’ve talked about and knowing the family. Where is the line between holding the standard and becoming the boss that people have to endure?

Ray Zinn: Well, if you treat your employees like your family, then you’re more likely to have less issues and more success in running your company. I treated all my employees like I would my children, my family. I treat them well. I understood their problems. I sorrowed with them when they had difficulties. I was empathetic and understanding of changes in their lives, because after all, we have more than just work to deal with. We have our own personal lives that we got to solve, whether it be physical, health issues, whether it be family issues, it could be other financial problems that the employee has. You have to be aware of it, being sensitive. Treat them as though they were your children.

Rob Artigo: Last question. A company can copy the slogan and still have no discipline. What did you watch for in a manager who claimed they did the tough things first, and what told you they had not mastered it?

Ray Zinn: They procrastinate. They don’t solve the problem. I had a situation come up yesterday: I had a big wasp nest that was in one of my light fixtures. I asked my grandson to wait till night, wait till dark, and then go out and spray them with insect spray, and get rid of it. Well, he kept putting it off, and I’m thinking, “I bet he’s afraid. I bet he doesn’t want to do it because he’s afraid of getting stung.” That’s why I told him to do it at nighttime. But he didn’t recognize the advantage of nighttime versus daytime, because when he went out to look at them, all he could see was those wasps flying around. And I said, “Well, at night when they go back in, that’s the time to spray them.”

So finally, after much coaxing, I did get him to go out and eliminate that wasp nest. You got to recognize people’s fears and their concerns. So if they start putting off something, like my grandson did, he didn’t want to go spray that because he’s afraid of getting stung, you have to be sensitive of that and recognize it.

Rob Artigo: Well, our listeners can join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Your questions and comments are always welcome there. We’re happy to have you. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and of course pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First: The Essential Leader, and The Zen of Zen series one, two, and three, with the new book, Zen of Zinn Daily. Until next time, do the tough things first, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Let’s do it. Learn to love the things you hate.

The pivot is something entrepreneurs are familiar with as a move that comes when something else fails or is bound to fail. So why should leaders plan a pivot when everything is going great? In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn explains the plan to pivot should come early.

Rob Artigo: Ray, most people treat a pivot like a fire drill. Something breaks and then they scramble. You’ve talked about pivoting before. Today, I want to talk about the part that comes earlier. Why do we plan to pivot while things are maybe still working, or even before we really get started?

Ray Zinn: Well, let’s back up a minute. Let’s talk about why pivots are necessary.

Rob Artigo: Okay.

Ray Zinn: So in the 37 years that I ran Micrel, I had eight downturns, eight, E-I-G-H-T. That’s a lot. And so the longer you’re in business, the more frequently you’re going to run into these down cycles. And so, you have to plan for that. In other words, you got to accept it. It’s there, it’s real, it’s going to happen.

And most people just think that the trees grow all the way to the moon or something. They don’t think about that something bad’s going to happen. In fact, when you flip a coin, 50% of the time it’s going to be heads, other 50% is tails. And that’s the way it is with things going great and things going not so great. It’s about 50%. So, planning to pivot is absolutely crucial, because that allows you then to be prepared for that change, that downturn.

What we always did is we maintained enough cash and enough reserves so that, six to nine months, so that we could weather our way through a downturn. A downturn typically lasts about a year and a half, between a year and two years. So, let’s say an average year and a half. So therefore, you have to have enough reserve to hold you through that recovery as you would. So that’s the main plan in being prepared for pivoting as you would.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. So, why plan to pivot while things are working? I mean, like you said, you had the capital to pivot if you needed to, but why are we doing it when, I guess maybe we don’t feel like we’re challenged? We are just doing it because… We’re doing it because it’s necessary to be prepared.

Ray Zinn: It’s like putting in a fire detector after you’ve already burned your house down. It’s too late. Once your house burns down, it’s too late to put the fire detector. I guess they call it smoke detectors.

Rob Artigo: Yeah.

Ray Zinn: You want to plan for these eventualities because they’re going to happen. And that’s the key to planning for a pivot. Sometimes it’s an economic cycle in the economy, the business changes either up or down. Sometimes it’s a product change. We know right now we’re going through a big AI, or I guess they call it now an SI revolution, and people are worrying about their jobs. “What do I do if AI or SI takes over my…”

Rob Artigo: You mentioned downturns, and any kind of change, you said you have some thoughts. I want to drill down into that a little bit. When you plan for the turn or the next turn, what are you actually planning? Are you planning a new product, a smaller headcount, a different customer, or just the cash that you mentioned?

Ray Zinn: All the above. All the above. It’s planning, having enough cash to weather yourself through the storm. It’s also cutting back, getting your costs within line, based on the market conditions at the time. It’s also product changes, evolution of products, like I mentioned a second ago about AI affecting your job or your company. It could be some other catastrophe happens, some other world crisis, but they will happen. I mean, to assume that nothing ever goes bad or nothing changes is absolutely insane.

Rob Artigo: Well, here’s the hard part. A plan to pivot might look to some people like doubt. Maybe the people might see the leader as being uncertain about the current plan. So, how do you build that option of pivoting without telling the team the mission is optional? You want them to still be on mission, but you’re also planning for the possibility of change.

Ray Zinn: That’s part of the culture though. I mean, the culture we had at Micrel was we were always planning for change. We knew it. We accepted it. I ran a lot of economic models prior to any particular year. I ran some models, and then I added in a economic downturn in that model. We were prepared. We knew exactly how much we had to compensate.

Rob Artigo: Worth noting that you’re an economist by training, not just a businessman.

Ray Zinn: Well, education.

Rob Artigo: Education. Yeah.

Ray Zinn: Well, I’m an engineer also, but I also have a master’s in business. So I have that economic education, experience. And I knew the industry. I knew the market that I was in. That’s the key to being able to pivot properly is to know your market, to have that knowledge of the direction of the market. It’s all part of planning.

I know in flying my plane, we have to plan for certain amount of headwinds, certain amount of fuel consumption, certain amount of weather issues we have to deal with, and that all has to be planned in. If we don’t, it’s going to be a catastrophe. In fact, most of these airplane crashes are due to people not planning properly for the conditions that they might experience.

Rob Artigo: While I was researching this and writing the script for the podcast, I found a term called sunk, S-U-N-K, sunk cost. And one description I heard was that it can be a trap, because in this sense, you’ve spent the money, you’ve hired the people and you’ve told the customers. What has to be true, Ray, before a planned pivot is the tough thing and not just an excuse to quit something?

Ray Zinn: Well, we’re talking about sunk costs. I mean, those are fixed costs. Those are costs that you already have incurred and that you’re going to be continue to incur, rent, utilities, head count, people that you have to have, that you can’t let go. Those are all these, they refer to as sunk costs. So you have to have that. You have to have it built in. And so you know what your variable costs are and which ones are your non-variables.

And then you factor those into the model that you’re trying to develop. One of the keys is these companies that grow too quickly, and so therefore their sunk costs or costs of operation are skyrocketing and then they have a hard time being able to cut back. And so, growing too fast, now grow fast is fine, but growing too fast is not. And so you have to be prepared for not growing too fast.

Even though maybe your investors, maybe your board, maybe your employees, whoever, then they want you to grow fast. They just want, as they call it, hellbent for election. They just want to fire away as though nothing’s ever going to go bad and nothing’s ever going to happen.

Planning for these eventualities is necessary. We’ve got this Iran war that we’re currently in. We though we were going to be done in a couple of days, and here we are seven months later and we’re still dealing with it because the adversary or the competition, in case of a business plan, they’re also out there trying to keep themselves upright and they’re planning for pivoting as you would.

Assuming that you’re the only one that’s got control over your outcome, your results is really ridiculous. You got to assume you have competition, you got to assume you’re going to have unforeseen changes happen, whatever they might be, either economic, market, product line, things change.

And if you just go back, look over the history, when Adam Smith wrote about the wealth of nations and the advent of the railroad, the railroad made huge, huge changes in the economic conditions of our country, and people weren’t prepared for that. They weren’t prepared for the impact of the locomotive.

And now today we have artificial intelligence or superior intelligence or whatever your preference is, and people aren’t prepared for it. I mean, they literally, in fact, they’re fighting it. Rob, people fight change. They hate change because it means they got to do something. But change is with us. We have to do something. We always have to do something, whether it be health issues, family issues, economic issues. There’s all kinds of things that we have to plan for. To assume that nothing’s ever going to happen, that things are always going to be rosy is where companies fail.

Rob Artigo: Let’s go back to what you mentioned about cash. You’ve always kept months of working capital.

Ray Zinn: Six to nine months.

Rob Artigo: Six to nine months, on purpose. So is the plan to pivot mostly a money plan or is money just what makes the other decisions possible?

Ray Zinn: They’re both. They’re both. It’s both, to help you plan and to be prepared for the plan. It’s like extra fuel on your airplane. So if you put more fuel than your destination requires, that’s extra load, that’s extra costs. But if you have a problem, if you have to divert to an alternate airport or you have some winds or the weather changes or whatever, you’re going to be glad you have that extra fuel on board.

So planning for eventualities is crucial. For example, back to aviation comment, you’re required if you’re flying part 135, which is for higher as you would, you have to plan to have an alternate airport. You have to be able to fly to the alternate and plus 45 minutes extra. So, not only do you have to have fuel enough to get to an alternate airport, but you have to have 45 minutes beyond that even.

So, if your plane will only hold enough fuel, for example, across the US, if your plane will only hold enough fuel to get you from point A to point B, and you don’t have that alternate baked in plus the extra 45 minutes for wind conditions and stuff, you’re going to crash. You’re going to run out of fuel. So, even though you’ve got to carry this extra load, the extra weight of the fuel, you still have to do it to have those reserves. We call it reserves.

Rob Artigo: Well, let’s drill it down to on a personal level. We talk about both the personal here on Tough Things First and on the corporate or company level.

On the personal level, you sold Micrel and then you had to make a change in your life because you weren’t going to the same office every day to do work. You had to make some changes. So a person who’s listening, who is going through that sort of thing, what is the first tough thing in a personal pivot before they announce anything or make any major public statements about what they’re doing?

Ray Zinn: Well, you got to go back to your plan. What was your plan? You have to plan it. So you look at your plan. Is your plan incorporating the changes that you’re experiencing? Whether it be retirement, whether it be changing jobs or changing product line, changing from one location to another, you look at your plan and say, “Okay, here is the plan that we have for this particular condition,” whether it be health, financial, business issues, employee issues, all those have to be baked into your pivoting.

And if you can’t pivot or aren’t able to pivot, you’re dead. I keep going back to this airplane analogy because it’s important. It’s an easy comparison to make. I know of airplane crashes that could have been easily avoided, but they had to carry extra fuel. They had to be extra prepared. They had all the information about the alternate airport. They had that all baked into the flight plan and they have to have the weather updates. You got to get those weather updates on a regular basis.

If everything goes right, you don’t need all that, but you got to plan for things not going right. And that’s what we did at Micrel. That’s why we were, 36 out of 37 years that we were profitable is because we were prepared for eventualities. And as I said, it’s that fifty-fifty flip a coin. Half the time it’s good, half the time it’s bad.

You know in your life that not everything goes rosy every single day and you have to have alternate plans if things don’t go right. It’s like, go back to that flying again, having that alternate airport baked in, planned in, have the fuel on board to be able to get there. And then some reserves. I know of this one incident that happened with this individual, very experienced pilot, he was flying down to the San Diego area and he did have an alternate in, but what happened was is when he flew to that location and the alternate airport was also bad weather, and then he had to find another airport.

Well, he ran out of fuel and crashed and was killed. So that’s why the extra 45 minutes was baked in there, is because not only was his alternate airport bad, but then he didn’t have enough fuel to get to another airport, which is like a third airport and he ran out of fuel. He paid the price.

Rob Artigo: I’ve looked at your daily plan. You work out in the morning and then you get to work at a certain time and you had sort of what time you were going to be home and have dinner with your family type of schedule. On an intraday sort of pivoting thing, we’re not talking huge product changes and customers and things like that. But, here you are going throughout your regular business plan, you know what you’re going to do, at this time you’re going to be there, you’re going to go do this, you have a schedule, you’re going to do that. Did you build in this concept of second nature, be prepared to pivot, into your day so that you didn’t get thrown off? If something changed, you could easily just switch directions and handle it?

Ray Zinn: Absolutely. I mean, it’s that scout model, be prepared. And that’s the key, is to have that preparation so that if something happens, you’ve got it covered. We have these large ponds here at the ranch and the purpose of them is not just to catch fish or recreation, it’s also for fire protection. So we put them in place. It’s expensive to have them, maintain them, but if there’s a fire, you’re going to be fortunate you have them. I remember in 2007, because we had the ponds, we were able to put a fire out that could have been devastating. I mean, completely devastating.

And so, it’s like insurance. Pivoting is really insurance. That’s the bottom line. And so you have to have an alternate route and an alternate capability to survive whatever catastrophe or disaster that’s coming your way.

Rob Artigo: Wow. Good advice, Ray.

Listeners can join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Questions and comments are welcome there. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. And of course, pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First: The Essential Leader and the Zen of Zinn series one, two, and three, now including the new book, Zen of Zinn Daily.

Until next time, do the tough things first, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Absolutely. That’s part of pivoting is doing the tough things first.

Rob Artigo: Ray, planning late is very common. You probably heard about this, and we’ve talked about it in podcasts when it comes to companies. A lot of times things are going along and all of a sudden they’re starting a plan, but now they’ve already gone past the point of no return. So planning early is rare and is not the same thing as having just a backup plan or a backup exit. Today is the plan you make before the trouble, before the company, sometimes even before the job. Why does the calendar matter so much rather than the cleverness of the plan?

Ray Zinn: Well, as they say, yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today’s the present. That’s why they call it a gift. So you can’t do something yesterday. You can’t do something tomorrow. You can only do something today. And so planning early is just planning. You want to plan before you take off, and [inaudible 00:01:14] use that aviation example. Plan before you take off. Once you’re in the air and underway, it’s hard to plan. Now, you may want to update your plan while you’re in the air, but you want to make sure you can get to your destination, and to do so you have to plan before you leave the ground. Because once you’re off the ground, problems really stack up, and if you have an issue, that’s not the time to be changing your plan.

Rob Artigo: What should be on a plan before there is a product, maybe even in your personal life, health, marriage, where you live, what you will give up and what you will not give up? Did you have that list before Micrel or did the company write it for you?

Ray Zinn: I had it before I got married. I had it before, when I was in high school. My mother drummed into me discipline. Her father was a German, a staunch German officer, military officer, and he was extremely disciplined. I mean, he would often say, “Chew your milk,” which is kind of a laugh. And as a kid, when my grandpa said, “Well, chew your milk,” I thought that was ridiculous, but I know what he’s saying. You want to make sure you chew your food. It’s really part and parcel to this whole concept of discipline, as you would, having that ability to stay on task and not deviate.

So planning early, I could say maybe when I was just a child. I mean, even a pre-teen age, my mother was extremely disciplined. I’m the oldest of 11 children, and she had to be disciplined with that many children with homework and with yard work and just housework and so forth. That all had to be plumbed in. I began working and drawing a paycheck when I was 12 years of age. I had a paper route. So I learned discipline at a very early age. Trying to learn discipline after you’re 60 is probably too late. You want to learn discipline when you’re a kid. And so if you’re now past that point, at least focus on what you can do now to become more disciplined in your life.

Rob Artigo: Well, on planning early, professionally people often plan the promotion and skip the reputation. If someone is 30 years old and wants to be trusted at 50 years old, what has to be decided now that cannot be repaired later?

Ray Zinn: Is your character, your nature. What kind of culture are you? Honesty, integrity, dignity, respect for everybody, doing whatever it takes, that’s that culture you have to have. That has to be mastered early. That’s part of that planning early is having that strong, strong culture, and I liken it to being a spiritual culture. The more spiritual you are, the more likely you are to get along with people, more likely you are to be honest, not have any legal issues and just being what they call a top-notch person.

Rob Artigo: All right. On a business level, early planning is usually on a spreadsheet. And it might even be just notes on a napkin, who knows? You have talked about knowing what you’re getting into, the pros and the cons, before you start. What belongs in the first plan that founders leave out because it’s not a number that they can look at and really quantify?

Ray Zinn: We talked about that in a previous podcast. That being disciplined, being able to stick to your plan. And so whatever plan you put on paper, as you would, you have to be willing to follow it. I know of another airplane experience or example of where this pilot was experiencing problems before he even walked out to get in the airplane. He didn’t file a flight plan properly. He didn’t look at alternatives, at the weather issues. And then when he got in the airplane, he found there’s issues with the plane, but he though he could still make it to destination even though he was facing issues in the plane. And they ultimately crashed and killed everybody, and so this planning on paper is only good if you follow it.

Rob Artigo: Same question for the personal life. Does it work the same way in your personal life?

Ray Zinn: Absolutely. I mean, if you’re going to say you want to live a balanced life, work, family and personal, you have to have that regimented is, again, I hate to call it disciplined, but you have to have that baked in to your daily routine if you’re going to be consistent in your plan, your life.

Rob Artigo: Well, I don’t want to talk about pivoting here, but if somebody locks themselves into a plan, kind of makes it a cage, I guess that’s also a negative.

Ray Zinn: Well, a cage is not a plan. I mean, it’s like a bubble. I mean, if you live in a bubble, you’re not going to really mature, you’re not going to grow, you’re not going to progress. You’re going to stay inside that restriction, that cage. So when I talk about a disciplined life, I don’t talk about a cage. I talk about having those things you decide to do early that you say, “Okay, I’m never going to be alone with another woman unless it’s my family,” or, “I’m not going to spend more money than I make, and I’m not going to eat all this junk food. I’m going to eat good healthy food. Good sleep habits.” And those are ones you make early and you decide early and you live by them. You don’t just talk about it, you do it. If you say, “I’m going to lose 15 pounds,” you put a plan together to lose 15 pounds. You don’t just say, “I’m going to lose 15 pounds.”

Rob Artigo: Obviously there are things that you can’t plan, the loss of a buyer, an illness, a market that vanishes. What is the early plan for the thing you cannot foresee? Not the reaction, the actual preparation?

Ray Zinn: Well, the things you can’t foresee are the unknowns. As you say, that’s what we call the fear of the unknown, and so you don’t want to let the unknown hamper you and strangle you. Things are going to happen that you didn’t foresee. And in the 37 years I ran Micrel, at least half of the downturns I did not foresee, but we were prepared for them. Even though I didn’t see it, we were prepared, and we were ready for whatever happened. Now, obviously we weren’t as prepared for the unforeseen things as we were for the foreseen things, but still we were prepared. We had alternatives. We had a backup plan that we talked earlier about the ability to pivot. So you’ve heard of backup plans, I’m sure, Rob. So having a backup plan does kind of cover unforeseen problems.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, just anticipating those things. That can go in your early planning is what happens if, and then fill in some blanks, “What am I going to do if I have to do these things?” And that goes back to our long conversation about pivoting, which is good info, so-

Ray Zinn: Well-

Rob Artigo: Yeah?

Ray Zinn: … we talk about marriage. I mean, marriage is where two people are going to live together for some length of time. There are unforeseen things that happen in marriage, and you have to be prepared for it. Some of them are health. I had a friend whose wife came down with ovarian cancer at a very young age. And now obviously when he got married, he didn’t know about she was going to pass away from ovarian cancer, but that really affected the … He was a young guy. He only had three children, young children, and his wife passed away. Now that changed everything, and it was unforeseen, but he had to deal with it, and so it’s a … Tragedy and these sort of unforeseen problems are going to happen, period, and but we don’t want to let them destroy us. We want to grow from that. We want to build off of that destroying aspect of unforeseen problems. So recognize unforeseen changes are going to happen. You just have to be strong enough and have that discipline to be able to deal with it when they do happen.

Rob Artigo: Well, our listeners can join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Questions and comments are welcome there. Follow Ray on X, Facebook and LinkedIn, and of course pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First: The Essential Leader, and the Zen of Zinn Series 1, 2, and 3. Now including Ray’s new book, Zen of Zinn Daily. Until next time, do the tough things first, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: I always like to say that. Love the things you hate.

Rob Artigo: Ray, today’s line sounds like a contradiction and, “Live as though you will die tomorrow, but plan as though you will never die.” You’ve told people, “Yesterday’s done, tomorrow isn’t here, and today is the gift.” I would say capital G, Gift. You’ve also built a company, a culture, and a body of work as if the runway had no end. How do these two instructions sit in the same life? I mean, this contradiction, how does it exist in the same life?

Ray Zinn: Well, as you said, it’s just, “Live your life as though you’re never going to die, but plan your life as though you’re going to die tomorrow.” You can’t worry about yesterday, you can’t worry about tomorrow, you can only worry about today. The key is, that’s why they call it a present, because today is the present. You can’t fix tomorrow, you can’t fix yesterday, you can only fix today. But to have a plan, plan as though you’re going to die tomorrow, okay? But live your life as though you’re never going to die. And so be prepared to live on and on and on, but plan as though the eventual is going to happen.

And so that’s the key, is having that ability to sustain yourself. And I did that running Micrel for 37 years, profitably for 36, by planning as though the end was going to come today, as you would, but living it as though we were never going to die, as you would. And then that’s kept us, our longevity as good as it is, is just that ability to sustain ourselves long-term by fixing the things that we need to be fixed today. Don’t fix them tomorrow, don’t fix them yesterday, fix them today.

Rob Artigo: And you know as well as I do that young people, and there are a lot of young people, college age kids here because of Zen Starter and your mentoring and other activities that you do, and of course your books, a lot of young people, college age, listen to this program. And they might get as far as live as though you will die tomorrow, and stop. And then it becomes a matter of impulse, like just skipping hard conversations, spending the reserves they have, delaying apologies, whatever you want to say, but it’s like burn brightly today without regard for what’s going to happen tomorrow. Does this half of the sentence actually apply to a leader on any ordinary day, I mean, where they have to watch what they’re doing to make sure that they don’t burn themselves out?

Ray Zinn: Well, there’s that saying, “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die.” And that’s what they do, is they say, “Well, we’re not going to live forever, so I might as well have fun.” That’s a very short term view of life. In other words, if you think you’re going to die tomorrow, what you’re going to do is you’re not going to last until tomorrow. And so this, “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die,” is the parable of the idiot.

So what you want to do is you want to live your life as though you’re never going to die. So an eat, drink and be merry is not going to fly. You don’t want to throw away the future just by enjoying today. That’s the key. If you eat drink, and be merry, you will die. Okay? If that’s your plan, then of course you’ll accomplish it. So if you live your life as though you’re never going to die, it means you’re going to have the right habits, you’re going to develop the right character and have the right culture. You’re going to do all those, eat the right vitamins, you’re going to do all that, and that’s the way that you’ll live your life. And your plan as though you’re going to die tomorrow means you make sure that you have a good plan that will sustain you so that you’ll live on forever.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. And that plan is culture, cash, succession, health, and this is a big one, a reputation that outlasts you. If you burn brightly and disappear, people will remember you for wasting time and wasting yourself instead of continuing to contribute to the world. And you have said a legacy is written over time, and that the earlier you start, the longer it lasts. So when you’re young, particularly do not forget the second part of this. The plan is though you will die tomorrow. So, what do people skip when they only live in the day and never build for a horizon they may never see?

Ray Zinn: If you don’t plan for the future, then you’re going to suffer. You’re going to suffer the consequences. Living for the moment is the problem. And so plan your future, plan as though you’re never going to die.

Rob Artigo: The same thing goes for business. And I know that Micrel, you were of the mindset that plan as though a downturn will never come but run as though it will arrive tomorrow. Or like you said earlier in another podcast, you said that it’ll all end today, it’ll all end today, you got to be prepared. Is this the same discipline applied to a whole life, urgency without sloppiness, patience without delay, kind of thinking?

Ray Zinn: Exactly. So, you just want to make sure that your plan you have is going to sustain you on into the future. That’s the key, is having a plan that’ll last forever as opposed to just a planning for the moment as you would. “Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you die,” is ridiculous.

Rob Artigo: Is there one thing that our listeners can put in motion today as if they will still be responsible 20 years from now, just in general?

Ray Zinn: I would say just having that ability to pivot, the ability to move. Who moved the cheese? Being able to deal with obstacles that you know are going to be thrown up in front of you.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, it’s a challenging environment. I know that even today, I would call you semi-retired. I mean, some people would say you’re retired, but you’ve got all these other things that you’re doing, that retirement wasn’t the end goal of the plan. The plan always outlives the concept of retirement for you. Finally, I guess the last thing here is, do you think that’s a good way for people to think is that don’t set retirement as a goal, think beyond that.

Ray Zinn: Well, I am retired in a sense of word, I don’t get a weekly paycheck or a monthly paycheck. That’s what I think of retirement. That doesn’t mean that I don’t do anything. I’ve written six books, I’m writing my seventh book. I’m writing church hymns. I’m doing a lot of things which normally people think you’re just going to die and so why not just eat, drink, and be merry? That’s not what retirement is. Retirement is, maybe you don’t have a monthly paycheck, but that doesn’t mean you stop doing things which are productive.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. Moral of the story today is, finish the work that can’t wait, right? And then build the things that should outlive you. Is that a good philosophy?

Ray Zinn: Perfect.

Rob Artigo: Yeah.

Ray Zinn: That’s it.

Rob Artigo: For our listeners, please join us at toughthingsfirst.com. You can continue the conversation there. Also, if you have questions for Ray or comments, you can offer them there as well. We have the podcast archives and the books, Tough Things First, The Essential Leader, and the Zen of Zen series, including The Zen of Zen Daily. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Ray, we should do the tough things first, don’t you think?

Ray Zinn: Yeah, that’s what I do. Every morning, do the tough things first.

Rob Artigo: Today we’re talking about one of the earliest decisions that can make or break a new company, picking a business partner. You co-founded Micrel with Warren Muller. You two were called the odd couple apparently. Different styles, different strengths. Before we get into details on that, how big a decision is choosing a partner?

Ray Zinn: It is probably the most important one all, is to make sure whether it be your marriage, whether it be your neighborhood, whether it be your friends or your partner and starting a business. You want to make sure that you compliment each other, that you have strengths that are not just duplicative but also that they build on each other. Be very careful who you pick as a partner. You want to make sure, number one, they’re honest and that they live this repentance process that we talk about, which is that they are willing to correct their mistakes at their expense, not at yours or the company’s. And so you want that partner that is morally good, that has good morals, ethical, honesty, integrity. Dignity of other people, it means of respecting others. And then of course, being willing to do whatever it takes and no excuses.

I mean, we cover that in the culture of my book, Tough Things First, and maybe the essential leader too, we talk about the culture that you need to have, which is honesty, integrity, dignity of everyone, and then doing whatever it takes, no excuses. Repairing the damage that you do or mistakes you make at your expense, not at the company’s. And so your interview process or your relationship with your partner has to be in depth. You really have to know each other and know how you strengthen each other. Like it’s an eternal thing, not just something that you’re going to get in and get out, but that you look at it more… I’m with this individual forever, not just for the next couple of years.

Rob Artigo: Is choosing a partner on the same level as choosing a product? I mean, you have to have a product for your business to even exist in the first place. Is it even bigger than choosing the product, choosing a partner?

Ray Zinn: I think so. Obviously, you have to have a product or a service that’s going to be sustainable, but I think probably choosing your partner is even more important. Whether it be a marriage, for example, whether it be friends, your friends also the ones that are your partners in so many words because they support you in your daily life. I think selecting the right partners is true in every aspect of life, whether it be your neighbors, your friends, your teachers, your partners in business. Selecting the right people to be around is really what this topic is all about.

Rob Artigo: With Warren Muller at Micrel, the fit apparently worked because you stayed out of each other’s lanes. Am I right about that?

Ray Zinn: Yes. I mean, you don’t try to be duplicitive in the areas of expertise that you have. We both brought different strengths to the company. If we both brought the same strengths, then it’s duplicitive. So you want to make sure that you have augmented strengths that will help you survive. And again, this is not just for a company, this is also for a marriage or for a relationship with a friend. Make sure that whoever you’re associated with are good, honest, moral people. Reminding again, our listeners, they have honesty, integrity, dignity, and respect for other people, and then do whatever it takes, no excuses.

Rob Artigo: A lot of founders default to talking about the division of work to a 50 50 thing because it feels fair. Let’s divide up the work 50 50 and then responsibility 50 50 and everything’s 50 50. What do you think about that mindset? Is it too competitive? Does it become a problem?

Ray Zinn: Well, I think again, this 50 50 thing’s ridiculous. It should be 100% for you and 100% for them. Just doing it, splitting it 50 50 it sounds easy and good but it’s not. You want to be 100% for them and they want to be 100% for you, and that gets you 200%. If you’re just splitting it 50 50, it just comes out even.

Rob Artigo: Let’s see. How about the last question here? Someone is about to shake hands and start a company this month. I mean, obviously it’s happening all over the place. Thankfully, people are still engaged in entrepreneurship and getting into businesses. What’s the one conversation they need to have before the paperwork even happens, before the conversation? Maybe what’s the conversation most people skip?

Ray Zinn: Not looking each other in the eye. When you want to develop a relationship, you have to be able to look that person in the eye. And you know what we mean by that, Rob, when you say look me in the eye or I’ll look you in the eye.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, yeah, you’re being real with them.

Ray Zinn: Yeah. You’re seeing through the nonsense, you’re seeing through the false narrative that exists in a bad relationship. Look me in the eye. When you have your partner, whether it be your spouse, look me in the eye.

Rob Artigo: Mr. Miyagi and Karate Kid, “Always look eye. Always look eye.”

Ray Zinn: Right.

Rob Artigo: So pick the right person.

Ray Zinn: The eyes have it.

Rob Artigo: The eyes have it. Pick the right person to find the work. Stay in your lane, and don’t confuse a handshake with a marriage. Listeners can continue the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Questions and comments are always welcome. You’ll also find podcast archives and the books, Tough Things First: The Essential Leader in The Zen of Zinn Series, including Zen of Zinn Daily. Follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn. Ray, thanks as always.

Ray Zinn: Good to be with you, Rob.

Rob Artigo: Ray, today’s topic is one founder’s learned the hard way, you always need more startup capital than you think. You’ve said if you don’t have enough cash, don’t start. Really just don’t start the business. If you don’t have enough cash to start, don’t start. Like taking off on a trip without enough fuel to reach the destination. We talked about this as your experience as a pilot. There are regulations about these things. Don’t take off unless you know what you’re going to do.

Why do so many entrepreneurs still launch on a number they already know is really tight?

Ray Zinn: It’s that optimistic view. I mean, it’s hard to raise money. It really is. It’s difficult to do. They want to start the company so bad that they’re willing to take a chance, flip the coin, and they’re willing to just bet the farm when they know they shouldn’t. So if your enthusiasm outweighs your financial ability, then you just become a sucker. The key here is not to kid yourself. You know the statement, “Don’t kid yourself.” You look yourself in the eye in the mirror and say, “Don’t kid myself.” Let’s be real. Let’s look ourself in the eye and say, “Do we have the financial ability to pull this off?”

And I think the biggest mistake that most startup companies make is they start without enough capital. They think, “Well, we’ll be highly successful and so it’ll fund itself.” And we come up with all these excuses, reasons why we’re starting off with little or no capital. And so that’s the key, is recognizing, being honest with yourself saying, “Do I have enough capital to make this happen?”

And I think the worst mistake you can make is to be able to start something without the ability to finish it, if you follow what I’m saying. And you brought up the example about flying in an airplane. FAA rules are you have to have enough fuel to take you to your destination plus 45 more minutes to go to an alternate. In other words, to have the ability to pivot, because you never know if you’re going to have the ability to land at your destination, even though highly opportunistically you will. It’s just that that’s not the way the rules are. The rules are have enough fuel to get you to your destination plus additional 45 minutes to get to an alternate. The ability to pivot, and we’re going to talk about that in one of our podcasts is this pivoting ability. Having the ability to pivot takes money and resources.

Rob Artigo: In the early budgeting process, think about people come up short because they underestimate. And where does the underestimation usually hide? I mean, is it in the product taking longer, customers paying slower, the first downturn or the cost of nobody really putting the cost in the spreadsheet, the original spreadsheet?

Ray Zinn: That’s all the above. I  mean, you covered them all. You will have economic downturns that you didn’t anticipate. You are going to have setbacks in product development that you didn’t expect, or you’re going to have extra expenses that you weren’t expecting. Again, if we go back to that flying requirement of being able to get to your destination plus 45 minutes. And there’s a reason for that, because it’s deadly if you don’t. And I think we all underestimate what it takes to get to our destination.

I was talking with a fellow the other night about a startup that he wants to do. He wants to do a Broadway show. And so I was talking to his business manager and I asked him questions about what is the average cost to do this? And so he said, “Well, the average is X number of dollars.” And I said, “Okay, then why are you raising only the average?” And he said, “What do you mean?” I said, “Well, there’s a distribution. In other words, there’s some things to go better than you expect and some things to go worse than you expect. And so how much should we have in this startup of doing this Broadway show? How much should we have in addition to the average?” And he gave me a number and I said, “Then why are you guys shooting for the average if you know that you need a buffer?” So I mean, yeah, if you have a knockdown success, you don’t even need the money that you’re currently trying to raise. But if you’re only raising the average amount, you’re making a big mistake.

And so we tend to base things on best case conditions, and that’s the mistake that most companies make. That’s why nine out of 10 companies fail in the first three years.

Rob Artigo: Well, I think along the lines of what you were just talking about here is you were talking about rational frugality, but if you have too much, people will spend it just because they have it. If they have too little, the company will die. How does a founder tell the difference between being disciplined and being under capitalized?

Ray Zinn: Well, we’re back to what I said before. You want to be able to get to your destination. And if you think you’ve overcapitalized yourself, you’re wrong. I don’t know of anyone in my experience has overcapitalized themselves. And if you do, then you just return it back to the investors. Don’t spend it just because you have it. That’s a mistake that most young people make, is that they got their tax return refund back and they got this or that, or they got some money because of some other financial windfall that they had and they spend it because it was a windfall. But I tell you what, you never have enough to start a company. So figure you’re going to need more than you think you’re going to need and therefore you’ll succeed.

My wife and I, when we were first married, we talked about living within our means, which meant we had to have a buffer. And I used a 10 to 15% buffer when we did our budget for our living expenses. Now that was tight because that meant that we had to cut back some because we weren’t living on exactly what I made. We’re living on less than what we made. And as a consequence, that really helped us out because that carried forth for the 65 years that we’ve been married. We never ever lived to the maximum of our income. We lived well within our income.

Rob Artigo: I guess the bottom line is cash is not optional. Companies don’t fail because they have it. They fail because they don’t have it.

Ray Zinn: Don’t have it.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. Listeners can find out more at toughthingsfirst.com. Questions for Ray are always welcome. You’ll also find the podcast archives there and Ray’s books, Tough Things First. The essential leader in the Zen of Zinn series, including the latest Zen of Zinn Daily. Follow Ray on X, Facebook and LinkedIn.

Ray, thanks as always. Until next time, do the tough things first, right?

Ray Zinn: Do the tough things first.

Rob Artigo: Ray, this is a special edition of the Tough Things First podcast. We were also on video, so the listeners, if they want to watch, can watch by clicking the link at toughthingsfirst.com. Just navigate to this podcast and you’re all set. Today we’re talking about something that hits close to home for just about anyone, whether you’re running a business or just running a home. Recently, the national debt officially crossed the $40 trillion mark. This milestone didn’t happen under one party. Spending decisions from both sides of the aisle over multiple administrations got us here. It raises some basic questions about fiscal discipline. In private enterprise, we treat the balance sheet as sacred. You say, Ray, cash is king and you don’t spend what you don’t have without a clear path to pay it back. So Ray, do you see leaders in Washington applying the same standard to the public balance sheet?

Ray Zinn: No, obviously not. This is really sad, because there’s a whole bunch of things that have contributed to this debt issue, but I would say that at least 80% of that is political. They’re trying to appease their base and as such, they just want to do things which are, in a business sense, irrational. I mean, the debt has doubled in 10 years and that’s atrocious. I mean, it started out, well, I hate to blame everything on COVID, but COVID had a lot to do with it, as they tried to stabilize the economy as a result of that COVID pandemic that we had. And probably one of the worst things that’s ever happened economically to this country was this COVID pandemic, which now appears to be concrete that it originated in China in a lab, and not naturally and as you say, in nature. China didn’t do us any favors and we didn’t do ourselves any favors in the way we reacted to it.

Rob Artigo: Ray, when I was a reporter covering Sacramento, talking to a politician in California, and in the course of that conversation, one of his answers were, “Hey, you don’t get elected for what you’re going to cut. You get elected for what service you’re going to provide, how much money you’re going to spend.” And that’s unfortunately the way they operate. So one of the strongest arguments against running up this kind of debt is intergenerational responsibility. We’re loading future taxpayers, people who haven’t even been born yet, with obligations they never voted for and had nothing to do with. From a moral and ethical standpoint, how do you view that kind of stewardship?

Ray Zinn: Well, again, I’m not a real happy politician type. The only political office I’ve ever held was a member of the school board back in 1984, but they call it dirty politics for a reason. And they lose sight of the fact that they’re not just impacting the present, they’re impacting the future even more so. And the Tea Party ran on, on reducing the national debt. That was the big thing. I remember my partner, Warren Mueller, that was his big thing. He hated the effect that we were dumping so much money into the economy and running up the debt to support the economy. The Democrat socialist-

Rob Artigo: Oh, yeah, that’s right. Democrat Socialists of America. Yeah.

Ray Zinn: … Right. That base is really the young people and all they do is complain. They think that AI is going to destroy their work opportunities. They think that not being able to buy a home and all they’re doing is complaining. So if you look at that DSA, that’s a complaint group. I remember when I served on the school board, the people that attended were primarily the teachers that attended our meetings and all they did was complain. They never have enough. We’re never doing enough for them. And that was what discouraged me for even serving on the school board was just the fact that the people complain and they think that’s their thing, is to complain. That’s how they get notoriety, as you would. So now, just because they make these claims that they’re going to help this, or help that, or support this group, or that group, it doesn’t mean they really will, because they’re constrained by certain other economic issues that they’re faced with, that prevent them from carrying on their policies that they’re ascribing to.

So again, politicians have been known as dirty politics for as long as I’ve lived, and for a reason. It’s just an artifact of the political life is that we’re not necessarily looking forward very far. We look forward to the midterm or the next election. And if you just listen to the news, the airways are filled with all these political issues in fighting and just fighting one group versus another. Iran, the way they took care of the political issues, they just killed a bunch of people, but we don’t do that. That’s not kind of who we are. And so, if you want to live in that kind of society that free speech just means you get yourself killed, then that’s going to be the way it is here in this country.

Rob Artigo: Is there a difference between borrowing for a true national emergency, so thinking of government, borrowing for a true national emergency versus borrowing as a routine way of doing business? I think that might be kind of a dumb question in the course of what we’ve already talked about, but what do you think about borrowing for a national emergency?

Ray Zinn: Well, national emergencies are of course important. I don’t see us borrowing so much for that as we do for other things in support of healthcare or some other project. For example, California and that train, that bullet train from LA to Sacramento, they borrowed heavily on that and that’s $250 billion. And it’s gone nowhere. They haven’t even laid any track at all. A lot of it is just spending for political reasons. For national emergencies, fires, restoring a bridge, certain things are important and need to be done, but they’re not the ones that get the headlines. It’s all these nonsensical ones, like building that train from LA to Sacramento, spending all that money and getting nowhere.

Rob Artigo: Yeah. It’s the train to nowhere. The name of it is the train to nowhere, really.

Ray Zinn: Exactly. Like the Bridge to Nowhere, like in Alaska, that bridge to nowhere. So the shame of it is that we borrow for the wrong reasons and that’s what has increased our debt. We have to cut back on these, what I call worthless expenditures, and focus more on what we’re really having the expenditures for, which is to improve our way of life.

Rob Artigo: Well, expanding on that, actually you touched on this last question, so I’ll ask the question again, and if there’s anything you want to add, I’ll give you a last word on that. You’ve always emphasized long-term payoff thinking over short-term fixes. So looking at this $40 trillion number, what would a disciplined long-term approach to the national balance sheet actually look like if the same principles that keep a private company solvent were applied to public policy?

Ray Zinn: Well, DOJ tried to do that. They’re trying to cut the expenditures on ridiculous worthless things, and that’s the key. The key is we got to cut away the fat and get down to being more lean. And of course, when you think about the DOJ and the cutbacks, that affected certain people’s lives, because they had jobs that were ridiculous and we were paying them to do these ridiculous jobs. So it’s something like AI. AI is getting rid of a lot of jobs that are redundant, that are not as effective as AI could make them, and people are going to have to pivot. They’re going to have to find ways to earn a living, which are more productive. And so, if you have a job that is repetitive, that is not really helping move you forward or the country forward, you’re going to have to pivot. You got to find another way of providing a living.

Rob Artigo: Well, Ray, our listeners can join the conversation at toughthingsfirst.com. Those questions and comments for you, Ray, are always welcome. Listeners can follow Ray on X, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and of course pick up Ray’s books, Tough Things First: The Essential Leader and the Zen of Zinn, series one, two, and three, now including Ray’s new book, Zen of Zinn Daily. Until next time, do the tough things first, right, Ray?

Ray Zinn: Absolutely. That’s the way we succeed.