Trail Break Radio

When people want very different experiences from the same winter landscape, can a map help them find common ground?

Winter travel plans determine where snowmobiles and other over-snow vehicles may travel on public lands—and where areas are managed for quieter, non-motorized recreation, wildlife, and other resources.

In this episode, panelists draw on examples from Idaho, Colorado, and Montana to explore how local collaboration can shape fair, durable plans, even as federal capacity and the policies guiding that work become increasingly uncertain.

The conversation was moderated by Winter Wildlands Alliance Executive Director David Page, who died unexpectedly in July 2026. We are deeply grateful to share David’s voice and to hear him doing what he did so well: asking thoughtful questions, bringing people together, and imagining a better future for public lands. We dedicate this episode to his memory.

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER: This episode was recorded at the Grassroots Advocacy Conference in September 2025. Since then, the Rio Grande National Forest in Colorado has released its Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for winter travel management and completed a public comment period. While some of the discussion in this episode reflects an earlier stage of the process, planning on the Rio Grande National Forest is actively moving forward.

SPEAKERS:

• Brittany Leffel, Colorado Policy Manager, Winter Wildlands Alliance
• Lynn Padgett, Commissioner, Ouray County, Colorado
• Zach Angstead, Federal Legislative Director, Wild Montana
• Moderator: David Page, Executive Director, Winter Wildlands Alliance

RESOURCES

• Winter Wildlands Alliance Action Center

• What Is Winter Travel Management?

• Change Is an Endurance Sport: 25 Years of Winter Wildlands Alliance

• Rio Grande National Forest Draft Winter Travel Plan

• Rio Grande National Forest Over-Snow Travel Management Project

• Kootenai Winter Travel Collaborative

• Ouray Regional Recreation and Conservation Alliance

• Colorado Outdoor Regional Partnerships Initiative

CREDITS

Produced and co-hosted by Anneka Williams and Emily Scott

Edited by Adam Titmuss

Theme music by Rattlesnake Preachers featuring Kerry McClay

Additional music by Blue Dot Sessions

Public lands are for everyone, but not everyone can access them. In winter, that gap only grows. From finding a place to park, to affording gear, to knowing what’s safe—winter recreation comes with real barriers. And for many communities, those barriers go far beyond logistics. So what does it actually take to make winter access possible for all? Across the country, organizations are working to open the door through new partnerships, community-led programs, and rethinking what access really means. Because access isn’t just about getting people outside—it’s about connection. The more people connect with wild places, the more they’ll care about them and fight to protect them.

SPEAKERS: 

• Cal’ Smith, Director of Winter Programming, Climbers of Color
• Megan Fiske, California Stewardship Director, Winter Wildlands Alliance
• Will Russack, Board of Directors, Cascade Backcountry Alliance 
• Anthony Cupaiuolo, Executive Director Tahoe Backcountry Alliance
• Moderator: Kerry McClay, WWA National Snowschool Program Director at Winter Wildlands Alliance

RESOURCES:

Winter Wildlands Alliance SnowSchool

Climbers of Color

Tahoe Backcountry Alliance

Cascade Backcountry Alliance

Find your local Winter Wildlands Alliance Grassroots Group

SUPPORTED BY: Outdoor Alliance, REI Co-op, The Mountaineers, Duct Tape Then Beer/Dirt Bag Diaries, High Country News, Phreem Family Brewers,University of Washington’s Pack Forest, and Mountain Training Center

CREDITS:

Produced and co-hosted by Anneka Williams and Emily Scott

Edited by Adam Titmuss

Theme music by Rattlesnake Preachers feat. Kerry McClay

Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions

Outdoor recreation on public lands is booming, but the funding to manage those lands is shrinking. As maintenance backlogs grow and budgets vital for outdoor recreation, public lands and waters tighten— the question is dire: will anyone bear the cost of managing public lands? And what happens if no one does? As federal funding falters, states, nonprofits, and local communities are stepping in. But is that a sustainable solution—or does it fundamentally reshape what national public lands are meant to be?

SPEAKERS: 

• Betsy Robblee, Conservation and Advocacy Director, The Mountaineers

• John Garder, Senior Director of Budget & Appropriations, National Parks Conservation Alliance

• Dan Gibbs, Executive Director, Colorado Department of Natural Resources

• Moderator: Garrett Brennan, Raven Analytics + Three Pin Strategy

RESOURCES:

• ⁠⁠Great American Outdoors Act

• Land And Water Conservation Fund

• America the Beautiful Act

• National Parks Conservation Association

• Keep Colorado Wild Pass

• Outdoor Alliance 

• ⁠⁠Subscribe to Winter Wildlands Alliance⁠⁠⁠⁠

• ⁠⁠⁠⁠Winter Wildlands Alliance Stash Blog⁠⁠⁠⁠

• ⁠Winter Wildlands Alliance Action Center⁠

SUPPORTED BY: Outdoor Alliance, REI Co-op, The Mountaineers, Duct Tape Then Beer/Dirt Bag Diaries, High Country News, Phreem Family Brewers, and University of Washington’s Pack Forest.

CREDITS:

• Produced and co-hosted by Anneka Williams and Emily Scott
• Edited by Adam Titmuss
• Theme music by Rattlesnake Preachers feat. Kerry McClay
• Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions

With winter recreation and mountain town populations booming, more people are recreating in sensitive wildlife habitat. That raises a tricky question: when land managers decide to close a trail or restrict access, and what evidence do they use to make that call? Often, those decisions rely on research from studies done somewhere else, in different places with different conditions. And that can make it difficult for land managers and wildlife advocates to explain those decisions to the public. It also leads to some bigger questions. Is there such a thing as enough wildlife habitat? Is there such a thing as enough trails and outdoor access? What about “enough” trails or outdoor recreation access? And, how do we balance these sometimes-competing uses of public lands?

SPEAKERS: 

• Cal Waichler, Project Coordinator, ⁠Cascades Wolverine Project⁠

• Joel Sisolak, Lands Planning and Recreation Manager, ⁠Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife⁠

• Trevor Kostanich, AMGA-certified ⁠ski guide⁠ and author

• Moderator: Kurt Hellman, Wildlife-Recreation Coexistence Senior Coordinator, ⁠Conservation Northwest⁠

RESOURCES:

• ⁠Cascades Wolverine Project⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠Community Observations Map⁠
• ⁠WolverineWatch.org⁠
• Conservation Northwest⁠⁠
• "Your Stoke Won't Save Us"
• Wintering Wildlife Conservation Initiative
• ⁠Subscribe to Winter Wildlands Alliance⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠Winter Wildlands Alliance Stash Blog⁠⁠⁠
• Winter Wildlands Alliance Action Center

SUPPORTED BY: Outdoor Alliance, REI Co-op, The Mountaineers, Duct Tape Then Beer/Dirt Bag Diaries, High Country News, Phreem Family Brewers, and University of Washington’s Pack Forest.

CREDITS:

• Produced and co-hosted by Anneka Williams and Emily Scott
• Edited by Adam Titmuss
• Theme music by Rattlesnake Preachers feat. Kerry McClay
• Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions

We often talk about public lands as playgrounds. But for many tribal nations, these places are homelands. Outdoor recreation is growing. Trailheads are full. Alpine lakes see record visitation. Social media drives more people to once-quiet places. And while that growth is a testament to how much people love wild places, it can come with real consequences. For tribal nations across Washington State, increased recreation on public lands directly impacts ancestral lands, treaty-protected rights, and the wildlife and ecosystems tribes have stewarded for generations. How do we balance growing outdoor recreation with Tribal sovereignty, cultural access, and stewardship of ancestral lands? As recreation expands, how do we move forward responsibly?

SPEAKERS: 

• Libby Nelson, Sr. Environmental Policy Analyst, Tulalip Tribes
• Sarah Ballew, External Affairs Program Manager, Snoqualmie Tribe
• Ezekiel Rohloff, Wildlife Biologist, Snoqualmie Tribe
• Joel Sisolak, Lands Planning and Recreation Manager, Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife
• Moderator: Betsy Robblee, Conservation and Advocacy Director, The Mountaineers

RESOURCES:

• The Recreation Boom on Public Lands in Western Washington: Impacts to Wildlife and Implications for Treaty Tribes
• Snoqualmie Tribe Ancestral Lands Movement
• State Tribal Recreation Impact Initiative (STRI)
• ⁠⁠Subscribe to Winter Wildlands Alliance⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠Winter Wildlands Alliance Stash Blog⁠⁠

SUPPORTED BY: Outdoor Alliance, REI Co-op, The Mountaineers, Duct Tape Then Beer/Dirt Bag Diaries, High Country News, Phreem Family Brewers, and University of Washington’s Pack Forest.

CREDITS:

• Produced and co-hosted by Anneka Williams and Emily Scott
• Edited by Adam Titmuss
• Theme music by Rattlesnake Preachers feat. Kerry McClay
• Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions

Avalanche forecasts are one of the most trusted safety tools in winter recreation and travel. Built daily by professionals who wake before dawn, dig into the snowpack, analyze storms, track wind, and translate complex data into clear public guidance that shapes life-or-death decisions for as many as 30 million people. But can avalanche forecasting survive the current administration? How stable is the system that keeps us informed (and alive) in the backcountry?

SPEAKERS: 

• Caroline Miller, Executive Director of the Utah Avalanche Center 
• David Reichel, Executive Director of the Sierra Avalanche Center
• Scott Schell, Executive Director of the Northwest Avalanche Center
• Brody Leven, professional chairlift-free adventure skier (moderator)

RESOURCES:

• ⁠Winter Wildlands Alliance Action Center⁠
• ⁠Subscribe to Winter Wildlands Alliance⁠
• ⁠Winter Wildlands Alliance Stash Blog⁠
• Find Your Local Avalanche Center

SUPPORTED BY: Outdoor Alliance, REI Co-op, The Mountaineers, Duct Tape Then Beer/Dirt Bag Diaries, High Country News, Phreem Family Brewers, and University of Washington’s Pack Forest.

CREDITS:

• Produced and co-hosted by Anneka Williams and Emily Scott
• Edited by Adam Titmuss
• Theme music by Rattlesnake Preachers feat. Kerry McClay
• Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions

The agencies charged with managing our federal public lands have been deeply understaffed and chronically underfunded for decades—even before the current administration’s chainsaw approach to government. Many in the public have long been frustrated with the perceived complexity and inefficiency of public process and decision-making. Now, in the wake of the deepest cuts in the history of America’s public lands, are there silver linings for the future? Are there (or will there be) opportunities for legitimate reform that might actually improve the ways that public lands agencies balance sustainable recreation management with resource protection and conservation?

SPEAKERS: 

• Susan Jane Brown, Principal & Chief Legal Counsel, Silvix Resources
• Hilary Eisen, Federal Policy Director, Wild Montana
• Megan Birzell, Washington State Director, The Wilderness Society
• Moderator: Fitz Cahall, Dirtbag Diaries

RESOURCES:

⁠Travel Management Rule⁠

Winter Wildlands Alliance Action Center

Subscribe to Winter Wildlands Alliance

Winter Wildlands Alliance Stash Blog

SUPPORTED BY: Outdoor Alliance, REI Co-op, The Mountaineers, Duct Tape Then Beer/Dirt Bag Diaries, High Country News, Phreem Family Brewers,University of Washington’s Pack Forest, and Mountain Training Center

CREDITS:

Produced and co-hosted by Anneka Williams and Emily Scott

Edited by Adam Titmuss

Theme music by Rattlesnake Preachers feat. Kerry McClay

Additional Music by Blue Dot Sessions

What does it take to protect your favorite wild snowscapes—and who’s actually making those decisions?

Hilary Eisen, our National Policy Director at Winter Wildlands Alliance, joins the SnowBrains podcast with Miles Clark to peel back the curtain on how we're advocating for backcountry recreation access for all, how grassroots organizations play a vital role in public land management, the challenges and successes of navigating winter policy, and much more.

MEET HILARY EISEN:

Hilary is an avid backcountry skier and ice climber with a passion for wild landscapes. She leads Winter Wildlands Alliance's work on National Forest winter travel management, forest planning, and other policy issues. Hilary works with our members, grassroots and grasstops partners, agency staff, and elected officials to protect wild snowscapes across the United States.

Hilary started her career in public lands in the backcountry, maintaining Forest Service trails and educating the public about Wilderness stewardship as a Wilderness Ranger while spending winters working on wildlife research projects. Prior to joining WWA in 2014, she worked on public lands conservation in Wyoming and Montana. She received her B.A. in conservation biology from Middlebury College and a Master’s degree in wildlife biology from the University of Montana.

Email Hilary at [email protected].

LINKS:

• The SnowBrains Podcast
• Learn more and support our policy work
• Follow @winterwildlandsalliance on Instagram
• Pledge to Ski Kind

CREDITS:

Trail Break Radio Producer: Emily Scott

SnowBrains Podcast: Created by Miles Clark, Edited by Liam Abbott, and music by Chad Croutch

Theme music:⁠ ⁠Rattlesnake Preachers⁠⁠ feat. Kerry McClay

How do we break down barriers to winter access and inspire the next generation of outdoor stewards? What does it take to connect 35,000 kids annually to snow, science, and conservation?

Kerry McClay, the founder and director of SnowSchool at Winter Wildlands Alliance, sits down with Life in Motion host Jeremy Lux to explore how SnowSchool has grown into a national program. Kerry shares his journey into outdoor education and conservation, discusses the importance of introducing kids to wild snowscapes, and highlights the challenges of making winter recreation accessible to all.

MEET KERRY MCCLAY:

Kerry joined Winter Wildlands Alliance in 2013 after helping establish the National Flagship SnowSchool site with Bogus Basin Mountain Recreation Area and the Boise National Forest. Kerry is a graduate of the University of Montana and Prescott College, and completed a Doctorate of Education at Boise State University. Working collaboratively with snow scientists and educators, Kerry designed the innovative SnowSchool curriculum now utilized across the US snow-belt to introduce thousands of children to the joy of exploring their local winter wildlands every season. Kerry lives in Boise and enjoys being outside whenever possible with his wife and their young daughter.

Email Kerry at [email protected].

LINKS:

⁠Life in Motion podcast

Learn more and support SnowSchool

@WWASnowSchool on Instagram

SPONSORED BY⁠:

Actual Outdoors

CREDITS:

Trail Break Radio Producer: Emily Scott

Life in Motion Host: Jeremy Lux with Illumine Collect

Theme music:⁠ ⁠Rattlesnake Preachers⁠⁠ feat. Kerry McClay

How do we address "The Hypocrite" in all of us? How much do our individual actions actually matter in the face of climate change and systemic environmental issues? Can we drop our judgments of others and of ourselves in order to take positive action and work together for the common good? Will snowmobilers and skiers ever find a way to get along?

Amie Engerbretson, snowmobiler, filmmaker and professional skier, sits down with David Page, Winter Wildlands Alliance’s  Executive Director, to shed light on the importance of uniting all outdoor enthusiasts—regardless of their recreational choices—in the fight against climate change while giving us a behind-the-scenes look at her latest film, "The Hypocrite."

MEET AMIE ENGERBRETSON:

Amie is a multifaceted professional skier known for her dynamic presence in the mountains. Beginning her skiing journey at Palisades Tahoe, she has since showcased her skills in renowned productions such as ‘Weak Layers,’ ‘Timeless,’ and ‘Boots Over Brim.’ With a degree in Media Management from Columbia College, Amie transitions often between roles behind and in front of the camera. Her diverse portfolio includes films, print, videos, and her podcast, "Long Underwear." Recognized for her climate advocacy, she was awarded the 2021 Alliance Member of the Year by Protect Our Winters for her impactful contributions to climate action.

Follow Amie on Instagram @AmieSki.

LINKS:

‘The Hypocrite’

⁠Backcountry Film Festival⁠

⁠Ski Kind⁠

SPONSORED BY⁠:

Mammoth Brewing Company’s Ski Kind Mountain Lager 

TRANSCRIPT:

(⁠⁠⁠available here⁠⁠⁠)

CREDITS:

Editor and Audio Engineer: Tess Goodwin

Host: David Page

Producer: Emily Scott

Theme music: ⁠Rattlesnake Preachers⁠ feat. Kerry McClay