On the campaign trail Donald Trump said Russia should “do whatever the hell they want” to NATO allies who underspend on defence, while attacking his former top military officer as a “traitor” who should be hanged.

Is this going to be the reality of his second term in the White House? And what does it mean for Ukraine - an end to vital military aid or a new determination that Russia can’t be seen to win?

Former UK National Security Adviser, Sir Mark Lyall Grant, and former Commanding General of the US Army Europe, Ben Hodges, join Kate and Mike to explain both the risks and potential opportunities.

Could Trump’s unpredictability be a deterrent to enemies, even if it unsettles allies? And months into the UK’s strategic defence review is this going to force some rethinking?