After Jack Smith released his final report on Donald Trump’s insurrection, Trump erupted, gloating over the failure to prosecute him. Meanwhile, Trump’s pick for Defense Secretary, MAGA hero Pete Hegseth, had some alarming moments at his confirmation hearing, and the MAGA cheerleading for him hints at ugly times ahead. Take this all together and Trump and MAGA look invincible right now. So we talked to historian Julian Zelizer, author of a good piece in The New Republic that reminds us that George W. Bush looked formidable in 2004, only to see the tide turn dramatically two years later. Zelizer discusses his new book, In Defense of Partisanship, and explains why Trump-MAGA’s grip on power may prove fragile, especially if Democrats fight them effectively.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices