The first presidential debate of the 2020 election was a night of sound and fury, signifying Trumpian nihilism. Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden was visibly trying to stay calm and focus on the camera and speak as directly as possible to the American people—while President Donald Trump attacked, interrupted, and talked over everyone, moderator Chris Wallace included, whose 11th hour recommitment to the rules of the debate came far too late to somehow contain the wreckage.

The experience of watching the debate was unlike any other in American history, debasing democracy thanks to Trump's careening performance. Typically we ask: who won and who lost? But today, that question seems less relevant: This was about a stark choice, laid bare. On today’s show, we’re bringing you some next-day analysis from Mother Jones’ DC Bureau Chief David Corn and DC-based reporter Nathalie Baptiste. They get into the mind-boggling contrast between Donald Trump and Joe Biden on the debate stage, the racism embedded in the debate topics, and whether you might have any reason at all to feel hopeful as November 3 approaches.