In this episode, Chip and Gini discuss how agency owners should handle situations when an employee resigns.

They explore the emotional reactions owners might have, the importance of maintaining professionalism, and the need to gather more information from the departing employee. They emphasize the value of a cooling-off period to devise a rational plan and the potential for restructuring the team.

Chip and Gini also talk about seeking feedback from remaining team members to ensure a smooth transition and mitigate the risk of more employees leaving. They stress seeing an employee’s resignation as an opportunity to learn and improve the business.

The following is a computer-generated transcript. Please listen to the audio to confirm accuracy.

Chip Griffin: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Agency Leadership Podcast. I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: And I’m Gini Dietrich.

Chip Griffin: Gini, I quit.

Gini Dietrich: No, you can’t quit. No.

Chip Griffin: You’d have to hit the record button yourself.

Gini Dietrich: All by myself. That’s not fun. I already do one by myself. I don’t wanna do this one by myself. You can’t quit.

Sorry. Can’t quit.

Chip Griffin: Okay. All right. Well, I guess I won’t then.

Gini Dietrich: Okay, thanks. That was easy. A lot easier than if an employee quits.

Chip Griffin: Lot. Well, lot easier because you know, I mean, if I quit and the show goes away, eh, you know, it is what it is.

Gini Dietrich: No, it’s terrible.

Chip Griffin: I’m sure many, many of you, one of you, someone might be disappointed occasionally. anyway.

So we, we are gonna talk about what to do when an employee comes to you and says. I quit. Oh, they usually don’t say it quite that way. I mean, oh, it’s not like in the, you know, TV or the movies where someone comes in and yells, I quit.

Gini Dietrich: Well, I quit a job that way once.

Chip Griffin: I’ve, I’ve certainly had ones I wanted to quit that way, and

Gini Dietrich: I did. And then he yelled back, you can’t quit. You’re fired. And I said, you can’t fire me. I already quit.

Chip Griffin: I mean, I did, I very frequently, I think probably just about every job I ever had after I gave my notice, I would, I would walk around for the remainder of my time saying, what are you gonna do? Fire me? right. So I, I’m, I’m sure those final two weeks were incredibly annoying for my bosses, but it is what it is.

It’s funny. But you know, it is one of those things where at, at some point or another everyone who owns an agency and has employees, they’re gonna have employees come to them and, and let them know that they’re giving their notice because they’re moving on to something different. Yep. And you know, I, I think many times, and, and for the sake of this episode, we’re gonna assume this is an employee that you actually think is, you know, doing a decent job and all that. Not someone where you’re like, oh, thank God I thought I was gonna have to fire them, but because I’ve had those too. Sure. For sure. I’ve had the ones where I’m like, oh yeah, no, this person’s gotta go. And then they come in and they quit and I’m like, oh, that’s too bad.

Gini Dietrich: That’s too bad.

Chip Griffin: Oh, I’m so sorry to see you go. Mm-hmm. How fast can you leave?

Gini Dietrich: We’ll just go ahead and you, today can be your last day. We’ll go ahead and pay your two weeks. No worries. Yeah.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. Yeah, just feel free. You weren’t doing anything anyway, so it’s fine.

Gini Dietrich: Yep.

Chip Griffin: But let’s assume that you have an employee that you would’ve preferred stay with you.

They come to you and they give their notice. It’s natural, I think for us to have that, that reaction of being hurt, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, many owners take this personally, like, sure, this is a, this is an affront to me. I’ve done something wrong. You know, you’re breaking up with me, blah, blah, blah. And then, then your mind starts to wander to, oh my God, what am I gonna do?

We’ve gotta, we’ve gotta cover all your work. How am I gonna figure that plan out? And the next two weeks, assuming the employee gave two weeks. So when, obviously those are not helpful things. They’re natural, but they’re not helpful. So when someone comes to you and says, Gini, I’m, I’m leaving for a new opportunity in two weeks, how do you handle that?

Gini Dietrich: I actually try to learn more because there are some cases where an employee might use that to get something that they want, out of you, and they may try be trying to play you against the new employer. Or it may be like I had a rockstar employee early, early in my agency life. She was, she was so good and she resigned and I did my informational interview just to like find out more and get more context.

And she said, well, I’m going to Chanel. And I was like, well, shit man. I can’t compete with that. Good luck. That’s awesome. Good for you. Like, but I do, I try to get more context and more information, to understand what’s behind it because in some cases it might very well be that something happened that you don’t know about, that just they’ve hung onto and haven’t been able to get talked out of it or whatever it happens to be.

And it may be very well be that you can talk them into staying. Most of the time that’s not the case. Just because usually if somebody’s made up their mind, it’s not gonna be a good situation if you talk them into staying, and they won’t stay for very much longer anyway. But I think it’s good to get some more information and understand where they’re coming from before you freak out.

Chip Griffin: I, I would take away the, before you freak out. I don’t, I don’t think,

Gini Dietrich: yeah. I mean internally, internally, internally.

Chip Griffin: But, but I, yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I think getting information is good. I think in general, your, your first reaction, at least outwardly, even if it’s not inward is that you need to be positive and supportive for sure of the individual. because regardless of, of why they’re deciding to do it, it doesn’t really serve any purpose for you to gripe and complain and be like, I can’t believe you’re doing this to me. And I mean, all the things that we’ve seen bad bosses do in the past. You know, you, you need to, to take that mindset and demonstrate that mindset to the individual that you are here to support them.

You appreciate the work that they have been doing for you. You wish them the best and you want to try to make this for a smooth transition. Now you should absolutely try to get information. You’ll have to decide case by case, whether you try to do that in that initial conversation. Yep, yep. Often it’s better to sort of just let it, let the dust settle a little bit and, and then get it later.

But you should absolutely try to extract as much information from that departing employee as possible because even if it doesn’t change that individual’s situation, it may help you to be a better employer or structure things differently or, or learn from the experience in another way.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think, you know, for parents who have gone through the tween or teenage years there, this is a, it’s provides really good foundation for you as you do this with employees because it teaches you how to keep the feelings internal and not freak out externally and really like, you know, do do a little bit of interviewing and echo back what you’ve heard and understand what they’re, they’re telling you so that you can take that feedback, even if it’s negative and, and apply it to the business. You know, there may be things that you didn’t know were happening.

I had a situation which to this day this person left five years ago. But to this day, I will still have people say to me, oh, well, you know, we didn’t really like working with so and so. And I’m like, why did anyone tell me? Why am I learning this about this five years later? And it’s because I didn’t do the appropriate sort of interviewing and understanding, not just of the person who left, but of my team who was still here to understand like what that working relationship was.

And so I think it’s a really good opportunity for you to understand. There probably are some changes that you can make internally if you’re willing to hear them and be open to the feedback.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And you know, to your, your previous point, you know, sometimes the employee is trying to play you off against the new employer.

Yep. You know. Maybe they, they want you to try to talk them into staying. You know, I, I think that you need to be incredibly cautious about that. As you said, it, it doesn’t usually work out when you talk someone in to staying, even if they’re coming into it with that as in their mind as a possibility that you might do that and they might be open to it.

So, you know, if you are ever in that position where you talk someone in to staying, you counter offer or something like that, which I generally don’t advise generally. Yep. If someone has come to you and, and said. You know, giving you their notice. Let it happen. Yep. Don’t, don’t try to talk them out of it.

You know, maybe try to talk them into an extra week or two if you need, you know, if, if there’s a major project or something that would really benefit, not just did you’d like a little extra time, but there’s some concrete reason why a little bit longer might be helpful. I’m open to that. But you, you really counter offering, convincing someone to stay.

That’s a short term fix. Yep. Even when someone comes to you and says, you know, Hey, you know, I need an extra 10 K so I don’t go take this other offer. It’s, it’s not gonna last very long. Because once people start interviewing, they’ve started to check out. That’s right. Yep. And the, the grass is always greener.

They start to see the potential, they get excited about it, and even if they agree to stay, it’s only a matter of time before they come back to their original decision, which is to move on.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. I’ve had situations too where – And this has, this happens quite often where somebody will leave and then say, but I’m available for freelancing.

And you’re like, are you though? Like, so you know, if you’re starting a new job. So one of the things I always say is, thank you. Why don’t you give it 90 days at the new job? And if you still have room for, if you still have capacity for freelancing, let me know because we’d love to be able to work with you in some capacity.

Great. Almost never do you hear back from that person. It’s because it’s sort of that, I think they use that as a like soft landing kind of thing, where it’s like, oh, I don’t wanna hurt your feelings, but I’m gonna go do this new job. And, and we all know that somebody’s leaving to do a new job and the first few months are chaotic and they don’t, they just don’t have time.

And it’s gonna, and then you’ve put yourself in a position to rely on them when you can’t rely on them. So I would say in those situations as well, like if it’s somebody you do wanna keep around, great, let’s give it 90 days and see how you’re doing and let’s connect then, because almost never is it going to work out that way either.

Chip Griffin: Yeah, I, I think that’s great advice. And I, I mean, I think the both the offer of, of those kinds of arrangements and the acceptance of those kinds of arrangements have increased in recent years as more people are working remotely. So it’s frankly easier. Yep. For employees to some degree to double dip.

And we’ve seen these, you know, stories of people who actually have two full-time jobs and, you know, juggle ’em in such a way that, you know, the employer never really notices or neither employer really notices. Which, you know, I, I’m not a fan of that. And, and you do have to be careful if, if you are taking freelance from someone who’s gone and taken another full-time job, you know, you don’t want to be in a position where you are not getting what you need. Their new employer isn’t. But if they find out, they’ll blame you. I mean, it just, it, it’s, yep. There are circumstances where it can work, but you just need to be really careful with those kinds of arrangements because they often don’t end well if they do actually happen. So the cooling off period, I think is great advice.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. And they may very well have an NDA or something that says they can’t work for another agency or they can’t moonlight and they don’t, they haven’t really gone through down that road yet. So I think the cooling off period is, is a great way to handle that. Like, let’s just take 90 days and see where we are.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And I, I mean, I think, you know, speaking of cooling off periods, I, I think it’s useful for you after you’ve gotten this notice to take a cooling off period before you decide what to do. Yes. It, it doesn’t need to be 90 days. You probably need to figure out how to 24 hours have that much capacity that you can be without a good employee for 90 days before you even come up with a plan, but, you know, give it at least 90 minutes.

You know, don’t, yes. Don’t, don’t jump to conclusions. And, and as soon as that employee has, you know, hung up on the zoom call with you, whatever, you’re now like scrambling and asking, who do you know who can do this? You know, take, take a little bit of time and, and think about it because, as painful as a good employee leaving can be, it’s also an opportunity.

That’s right. Because it’s an opportunity to think about how your team is structured, what kind of needs you really have today, because chances are your needs are different today than they were when you hired that individual. You’ve started to shape it around that individual. Because maybe they’ve been with you for 2, 3, 4 years and, and so now you have a chance to start at least in that portion of your business with a clean slate.

And you should never ever give up those opportunities. As, as Rahm Emanuel once said, never fail to take advantage of a good crisis. And, and this is a crisis you can advantage of and figure out, you know, how do you wanna do things differently going forward.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think that’s really good advice as well because it, it absolutely is an opportunity.

And, my husband just had somebody, a really good employee, in his business just resigned and he was kind of bummed about it. But it, but then he came around, he is like, actually, you know, we could do this, this, and this now that they’re gone. Because it gives us the opportunity to kind of spread our wings a little bit.

And so you absolutely have an opportunity. So giving yourself a cooling off period is also a good idea.

Chip Griffin: Well, it also, it, it allows you to, to not, even if you don’t wanna change things dramatically, it just allows you to make a more rational decision to go ahead in a similar fashion to what you have been doing because you’re, you’re not doing it based on that immediate emotion of frustration.

You’re doing it because you thought about it and considered it, and, and frankly, going back to your point of getting information from the individual. I will often ask their advice. I don’t necessarily always take it, right, but, you know, particularly if it’s, if it’s a good employee, I’ll say, you know, so, you know, what do you think we should do with this role going forward?

Should we be looking for someone just like, and, and if you’ve got a really good employee, they often have some insights for you. And, and they’ll say things that may not truly shape what you’re hiring, but you’ll learn from it. Because if they say, well, you know, really, probably a third of my job was, was beneath me, so you probably don’t need some, you know.

That’s a good way to understand. Well, that’s probably one of the driving factors, even if they haven’t identified it for why they left, because they were being asked to do things that they felt were below their level. Yep. You know, or perhaps they might say, you really need two people because there’s so much work to do, and then you know that, you know that one of the unsaid things there is that you’ve overworked them.

Yeah. And, and that may have impacted their morale. So,

Gini Dietrich: absolutely.

Chip Griffin: You know, asking for their advice. And, and frankly, it also just helps them feel better about themselves as they’re going out the door. Yeah. In many cases, because, you know, now you’ve put them up on a pedestal as an expert. Of course this only works if you’ve been asking generally for their input all along.

Sure. Because it’s the first time you ask this. They’re like, then they’ll say, what? So now, because I mean, I, I’ve certainly seen this where the, the employee is leaving. Like, now you want to know what I think? now? you’ve ignored me for the last four years and now you want to know? So be careful about that.

Make sure you’re having these regular one-on-ones where you get input from them on a regular basis.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. Though the, you have two things that everybody should do no matter what, and one-on-ones is one of them, which I completely agree with. They have to happen.

Chip Griffin: Have to. Must. A hundred percent. Because, because then you shouldn’t be all that surprised when someone comes in and gives notice.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you will, you be surprised in the moment? for sure. Sure. In most cases. But you know, when you think about it, you’ll be like, yep, no, I kind of, I kind of saw that one coming. You know, there are strange instances where it’s not because, you know, they just got headhunted or something like that, but most of the time Sure, yep.

Our employees aren’t getting poached by a headhunter. Most of the time it’s because they were actively looking for an opportunity. And so, you know, there are, there are typically signs of that. They’re a little bit harder to notice today than they were when everybody was in the office, you know? And all of a sudden someone’s got, you know, all these strange middle of the day appointments where they’re just like wearing a suit.

I gotta go to the DMV. Like, but you just did that two months ago, right?

Gini Dietrich: Right. And you’re wearing a suit. Why are you wearing a suit?

Chip Griffin: Yeah. That’s awfully dressy for the DMV. I don’t, I don’t know about that. I don’t think they really care what you look like for your driver’s license photo, but maybe I’m wrong.

So, but it is a little bit harder with people not physically connected to you, but you, there’ll still be signs for sure. If you’re having, having regular communication and open communication with your team members.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, I think it’s, I do, I agree with you. I think it’s a really good opportunity for you to learn more, be open to feedback, you know, make sure that you are not being defensive so that you have some, you take some time to, to cool off so that you can have that open, open conversation. But use it as an opportunity to look at how to restructure things so that it’s better for your business overall.

Chip Griffin: Yeah. And, and beyond getting advice from that individual, get advice from the rest of your team. Right? Because if you think about it, yes, you’re impacted by this employee’s departure, but so is every other team number, so is everyone else. Yeah. In a small agency.

Gini Dietrich: Yep.

Chip Griffin: And so first of all, you want to be able to signal to them.

That you understand that it’s gonna be a short term challenge. And, and so anytime I had an employee leave by their choice or by mine, I always brought the team together and the surviving members, if you will, and say, okay, look, I, I know we’re gonna have some challenges. We’re, you know, it’s gonna take a little bit to fill the gap.

We wanna figure out how to do it smartly. We’re not gonna rush into anything we want a good fit. So, you know, I’m gonna solicit your advice, but first just know I’m aware of this and, and I know I’m gonna be asking more of you over the coming weeks. But rest assured that, you know, we’re not just gonna let this fester.

We’re, you know, we’re gonna be actively moving forward, but I wanna talk with each of you and understand what do you think we should be looking for in this role, or that sort of thing. And, and you’ll often get some really good insights from them. Not necessarily just about that position, but again, how they’re perceiving the business Yep.

And how satisfied they are. Yep. Anytime you have employees leave of their choice, you wanna be careful that it doesn’t become infectious, because sometimes you will see some, you know, a, a good employee leaves and so now other people start to say, oh, should I be thinking about this too? A and so you want to be able to spot anything that might be encouraging that kind of thinking so that you can nip it in the bud before it becomes a major issue for you.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah. It’s, it’s. Yes, absolutely. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Chip Griffin: But, but bottom line is don’t panic. Don’t panic. People quit. You quit your job, I’m sure at some point.

Gini Dietrich: That’s right. In a blaze of glory.

Chip Griffin: Almost none of you who are owners got there without ever quitting a job.

Gini Dietrich: That’s right.

Chip Griffin: So, you know, you know that there are legitimate reasons why people do it.

Don’t get upset about it. See it as an opportunity to both learn and to reshape your business and reorganize your team. And if you do that, then it’s a lot easier to to stomach when they happen.

Gini Dietrich: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and again, it’s just like parenting tweens and teenagers. There have been instances, I’m sure, for all of us where you’ve had to take a cooling off period.

Before you had a conversation with them after something they’ve done. Same thing. Take a cooling off period, think it through rationally, and be open to feedback.

Chip Griffin: Just as I’m sure you’ll take a cooling off period to figure out what you’re gonna do with the show next week. Since I have now quit. You and Jen can figure it out.

Gini Dietrich: And we will.

Chip Griffin: Probably, we’ll probably see the listeners triple because I’m gone.

But it is what it is, what are you gonna do? So with that, we will draw this episode to a close and I, I guess I’ll come back next week after all.

Gini Dietrich: Okay, thanks. Thanks, thanks.

Chip Griffin: I’m Chip Griffin.

Gini Dietrich: I’m Gini Dietrich

Chip Griffin: and it depends.