Two or Three Gathered

Good day to you 'the Gathered,'

Some 'technical difficulties' meant we couldnt finish in this episode, and thus needed to conclude with one more part, where we discuss the Conversion Therapy Bill's coin-cidence and how Christians could and should respond given all of these particulars in the NZ context.

In this part, we discussed the Covid Restrictions and the associated politicization (Skip to @29:30 if you want to get to the topic faster), the Counter Terrorism Legislation, as well as begin discuss how culture globally has interacted with these ideological trends. As always, we welcome and and all engagement on these topics,

With much love,

J., C. & C.

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Discussion Document: "Proposals against incitement of hatred and discrimination" - Minister of Justice, Kris Faafoi

https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/documents/publications/incitement-discussion-document.pdf

Dept of Internal Affairs - Three Waters Reform Programme:

https://www.dia.govt.nz/Three-Waters-Reform-Programme

Three Waters - What you need to know (Russell Palmer):

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/what-you-need-to-know/452865/three-waters-what-you-need-to-know

NZ Harmful Digital Communications Act, 2015:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0063/latest/whole.html

The Covid19 Public Health Response Bill:

https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2020/0246/latest/whole.html#LMS344134

The Counter Terrorism Legislation Bill: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2021/0029/latest/whole.html#LMS479298

The 2007 NZ Police Raids: "Tame Iti shooting the Flag:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_Zealand_police_raids

We The Internet - Five Reasons why we need Hate Speech (Lou Perez):

https://www.facebook.com/wetheinternettv/videos/824937531449603

Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux banned from public speaking in Auckland:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/361220/far-right-pair-banned-from-speaking-at-auckland-council-venues-phil-goff AJ+

Apartheid Explained (in just under 3 minutes):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7yvnUz2PLE&ab_channel=AJ%2B

Marcus Meechan (Count Dankula) and the circumstances around his 'hate crime:'

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/nazi-dog-salute-scot-take-22227891

Paul Moon's Open Letter regarding Free Speech:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/91145422/paul-moon-freedom-of-speech-in-new-zealands-universities-under-attack _____________________________________________________________

Good day to you 'the Gathered,' This one was a bit of a Rabbit Hole! We intended to follow an initial outline:

 - Introduction to the Proposed Legislature revisions:

 - Related NZ Legislature (Bill of Rights, Human Rights, Counter Terrorism, Harmful Digital Communications, Covid Response, etc) 

 - Regarding Engagement with the associated ideas (in popular culture) - Re: Other Media Points and Miscellaneous Points

 - Re: The Conversion Practices Prohibition Legislation Bill

 - Christian Perspective weighing in, and what now should we do? 

...But found that it wasnt sufficient to just cover this in just one podcast. We understand that this is a divisive issue and that opinions are divided. But it is in that spirit that we emphasize that fair and open discussion amongst all people (Christians included) is necessary on an issue being sidelined, occurring globally and that could grant governments extraordinary utility for both good or bad. 

In this first part, we examine the proposals as well as interaction with other legislation (and begin to discuss popular engagement around said topics). As per usual, please avail yourself of the material below that you might come to your own opinion on these matters; Christians need to have considered some of these variables particularly in navigating discipleship in our 21st century world.   With much love, J., C. & C. 

____________________________________________________________________ 

Discussion Document: "Proposals against incitement of hatred and discrimination" - Minister of Justice, Kris Faafoi - https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/documents/publications/incitement-discussion-document.pd

PM says government could have better communicated Hate Speech Proposals (1 News, July 2021) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uFXMB743rw

Jamie Ensor, Newshub: Hate speech explainer: The six key proposed changes Government wants public's feedback on - https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/06/hate-speech-explainer-the-six-key-proposed-changes-government-wants-public-s-feedback-on.html

Russell Palmer, RNZ: Proposed hate speech laws: What you need to know - https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/proposed-hate-speech-laws-what-you-need-to-know/MVWR2D7MNZXJCD7FEUUUDQCH4A/

Encyclopedia Britannica: "What is the difference between Criminal law and Civil Law?" - https://www.britannica.com/story/what-is-the-difference-between-criminal-law-and-civil-law

NZ Harmful Digital Communications Act, 2015: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2015/0063/latest/whole.html

NZ Bill of Rights Act, 1990: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM224792.html

NZ Human Rights Act, 1993 https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/DLM304212.html

NZ Defamation Act, 1992: https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1992/0105/latest/whole.html

Tova O'Brien, Newshub: Could Millennials be jailed for hating on Boomers? Kris Faafoi answers tough questions about the new hate speech proposals- https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/06/could-millennials-be-jailed-for-hating-on-boomers-kris-faafoi-answers-tough-questions-about-the-new-hate-speech-proposals.html?fbclid=IwAR0IP96Do_NX_TYEIM8Cw6gNwhowMfWNIRPlaSHd19wOya5e1tKLqP6CsXE

Good day to you 'our fellow heathens,'

In this episode, we interview the brilliant Simeon Hawkins, a colleague of Jared's and Master of Theology Graduate having completed a thesis on 'the History of St Paul's Episcopal Church in Auckland.' Over two casts, we addressed the themes detailed in his work:

- Maori and the High Church Relationships

- The role of Auckland's 1st Church with Officials and Ruling Powers

- St Paul's as 'the Church of the Garrison'

- Connections with its members to Free Masonry

- Social Philanthropy of the congregation and its members (especially in Education)

In this 2nd installment, we address the remaining last two remaining themes within Simeon's thesis, as well as NZ Christianity and allyship/advocacy of biculturalism as well as some miscellaneous questions at the end. We hope you enjoy this concluding piece in your viewing. 

To God's Glory, and yours in Christ,

- C., J. & C.

____________________________________________________________________

The Spinoff's Article on Pania Newton and Matt Renata's efforts regarding the Ihumatao protests and activism: https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/30-10-2020/what-are-you-christians-doing-here-matt-renata-on-faith-and-protest-at-ihumatao/

Simeon's Master's Theology/Church History Thesis via Auckland University: https://researchspace.auckland.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/2292/52520/whole.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1mdOLXwaLwkOsMO2O5gwH96AFHcdRaszIinx_mls8270IqRpTYYM9HCNI 2021

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Good day to you 'our fellow heathens,' 

In this episode, we interview the brilliant Simeon Hawkins, a colleague of Jared's and Master of Theology Graduate having completed a thesis on 'the History of St Paul's Episcopal Church in Auckland.' Over two casts, we addressed the themes detailed in his work: 

- Maori and the High Church Relationships 

- The role of Auckland's 1st Church with Officials and Ruling Powers 

- St Paul's as 'the Church of the Garrison' 

- Connections with its members to Free Masonry 

- Social Philanthropy of the congregation and its members (especially in Education)  

As well as getting to know a little about God's work in his life via testimony, Simeon also shared insights around Church History generally (given his expertise) and perspectives around the NZ Church's place in championing Bi-cultural advocacy given NZ collective church history. Simeon is intelligent, very theologically articulate and warm and engaging with the sharing of any and all of his insights. He is humble and thus endearing to the listener in all such presentations, and we hope his rich insights bless you the listener with a deeper understanding on these topics. 

To God's Glory, and yours in Christ, 

- C., J. & C.  

____________________________________________________________________  

Simeon's Master's Theology/Church History Thesis via Auckland University: https://researchspace.auckland.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/2292/52520/whole.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1mdOLXwaLwkOsMO2O5gwH96AFHcdRaszIinx_mls8270IqRpTYYM9HCNI 2021 

____________________________________________________________________  

––– ♪♫ Artists' Links ♫♪ ––– 

 ► Music Credits:

● Track Name: 'Nebula' ● Music By: Homie Cat  ● Official "Homie Cat" Spotify HERE - https://open.spotify.com/artist/01eWi... 

● Official "Homie Cat" SoundCloud HERE - https://soundcloud.com/homie-cat/

● Official "Homie Cat" Instagram HERE - https://www.instagram.com/homiecatbeats/

► DOWNLOAD this track HERE - https://www.chilloutrecordsmusic.com/

License for commercial use: Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 Unported "Share Alike" (CC BY-SA 4.0) License. Full License HERE - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... 

● Music promoted by NCM https://goo.gl/fh3rEJ @  https://www.LoFi-HipHop.com 

––– ♪♫ FREE DOWNLOAD ♫♪ ––– 

► DOWNLOAD this track HERE - https://www.chilloutrecordsmusic.co

►The footage used in this audio is licensed to Chill Out Records by: Digital Kite Aerial Photography & Videography. 

Check out more of their amazing work @ https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list... 

 • (C) Copyright Notice: This is FREE royalty free music that has been released under the "Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 Unported "Share Alike" (CC BY-SA 4.0) license." Details about the license can be found HERE - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/...  - Disclaimer: The creative commons music featured in this video is original content being released under Chill Out Records LLC for use by other content creators in their own videos. You may use the music Chill Out Records shares but we kindly ask that you do not attempt to claim the music we publish as your own.   

––– ♪♫ CHILL OUT RECORDS ♫♪ –––           

[NO COPYRIGHT MUSIC]

Good day to you 2's and 3's! 

In this 20th Podcast, we had the absolute privilege of interviewing Daniel Lake: - Former YWAM Missional Leader over 15 years in over 20 countries - NZ Director for the Charity "Open Doors" which helps the persecuted church globally - Whangaparoa Baptist Church's Teaching Pastor Dan has the kind of faithful discipleship married with gregariousness and love that makes him the kind of Christian you want to associate with the faith and followers of Jesus. He seasons what he shares with engaging anecdotes and 'precise pearlers.' We covered a variety of topics that each could adequately be covered in their own cast, and as such he would be very much welcome to come again to discuss Missiology and Ecclesiology in greater depth. We hope you enjoy this latest offering. - C., J. & C. 

_________________________________________________________________________ 

Whangaparoa Baptist Church - Official Website: https://wbc.org.nz/ 

Open Doors NZ - Serving Persecuted Christians Worldwide: https://www.opendoors.org.nz/ 

Youth with a Mission Furnace (Tauranga, NZ): https://ywam.org/location/ywam-furnac... 

Youth with a Mission - Auckland Te Ao Marama, NZ: https://ywam.org/location/ywam-auckla... 

The Venn Foundation: https://www.venn.org.nz/ 

_________________________________________________________________________ 

Dan and Co's Book recommendations/Plugs: 

When People are Big, and God is Small - Overcoming Peer Pressure, Co-dependency and the Fear of Man | Edward T. Welch : https://www.amazon.com/When-People-Ar... 

When Helping Hurts - How to alleviate poverty without hurting the poor... and yourself | Steve Corbett & Brian Fikkert : https://www.manna.co.nz/when-helping-... 

Walking with the Poor - Principles and Practices of Transformational Development | Bryant L. Myers : https://www.mightyape.co.nz/product/w... 

The Trivialization of God - The Dangerous Illusion of a Manageable Deity | Donald W. McCullough: https://www.amazon.com/Trivialization... 

Church History in Plain Language (4th Ed.) | Bruce Shelley : https://www.manna.co.nz/church-histor... _________________________________________________________________________ 

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Thanks again for joining us "our fellow heathens" This cast marks the first official podcast with the inspirational 'Christine Welten' as a co-host. With her brilliant array of gifts & talents, and her testimony of God's grace alongside her set of experiences -we believe- will enrich what we seek to provide you, the viewer, with.  In this cast, we deep dive concerning the history and theology of the "World Mission Society Church of (Mother) God" or colloquially known as 'the Mother God cult.' We anticipate there may be some backlash for this one, but hope that it serves Christ's body as converts seek liberation from the problematic ideas and constraints of this movement. Like and Subscribe if you appreciate our content, as we appreciate your engagement!

___________________________________________________________

Join our growing FB Community!:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/855139661721070

Listen to us via your preferred podcast platform:  https://anchor.fm/two-or-three-gathered

If you are interested and want to find out more about this movement, or if you are wanting help seeking liberty from this movement, reach out to us via these platforms and we'll do whatever we can to help you. Also, you can check out the links below (Mike Winger's material is particularly exceptional).

Yours in Christ, C. J. & C.

___________________________________________________________

Mike Winger's "BibleThinker" Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/biblethinker/id1358056327

Mike Winger's Videos concerning WMSCOG: What the Bible REALLY says about God the Mother! WMSCOG refuted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0LhGhJDXtA

The Shocking Truth About Christ AhnSahngHong!:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-L9oV13vRI

The Secret History of the Fast Growing “Mother God” Cult (with NEW info I've never shared before): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUeNiX-WLoo

The False Teachings and Lies of Joo-Cheol Kim (Pastor of the Church of God): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jRFNZeu9qM

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• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUtx...

• DOWNLOAD @ https://www.chilloutrecordsmusic.comLicence: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0) - Full licence here: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/...

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• (C) Copyright Notice: This is FREE (Royalty Free Music) that has been publicly released by Chill Out Records - No Copyright Music (Chill Out Records LLC) for use by content creators within their own YouTube and TikTok Musical.ly videos.

Licence: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0)  ►This video footage and music is exclusively owned by Chill Out Records LLC.   ––– ♪♫ FREE DOWNLOAD ♫♪ –––  ► Download "Remember" by KaizanBlu HERE - https://www.chilloutrecordsmusic.com/ ––– ♪♫ [CHILL OUT RECORDS] -♫♪ ––– [NO COPYRIGHT MUSIC]

Thanks again for joining us "our fellow heathens" This cast marks the first official podcast with the inspirational 'Christine Welten' as a co-host. With her brilliant array of gifts & talents, and her testimony of God's grace alongside her set of experiences -we believe- will enrich what we seek to provide you, the viewer, with.  In this cast, we deep dive concerning the history and theology of the "World Mission Society Church of (Mother) God" or colloquially known as 'the Mother God cult.' We anticipate there may be some backlash for this one, but hope that it serves Christ's body as converts seek liberation from the problematic ideas and constraints of this movement. Like and Subscribe if you appreciate our content, as we appreciate your engagement!  

___________________________________________________________  

Join our growing FB Community!:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/855139661721070

Listen to us via your preferred podcast platform:  https://anchor.fm/two-or-three-gathered 

If you are interested and want to find out more about this movement, or if you are wanting help seeking liberty from this movement, reach out to us via these platforms and we'll do whatever we can to help you. Also, you can check out the links below (Mike Winger's material is particularly exceptional).  

Yours in Christ, C. J. & C. 

___________________________________________________________ 

Mike Winger's "BibleThinker" Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/biblethinker/id1358056327 

Mike Winger's Videos concerning WMSCOG: What the Bible REALLY says about God the Mother! WMSCOG refuted: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0LhGhJDXtA

The Shocking Truth About Christ AhnSahngHong!:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-L9oV13vRI

The Secret History of the Fast Growing “Mother God” Cult (with NEW info I've never shared before): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUeNiX-WLoo

The False Teachings and Lies of Joo-Cheol Kim (Pastor of the Church of God): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jRFNZeu9qM

___________________________________________________________

- Artist Attribution: - Music By: "KaizanBlu" Track Name: "Remember" 

• Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kaizanblu/

• SoundCloud - https://soundcloud.com/kaizanblu/

• Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kaizanblumusic/• TikTok - @kaizanblu http://vm.tiktok.com/aCYwfx/

• YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUtx... 

• DOWNLOAD @ https://www.chilloutrecordsmusic.comLicence: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0) - Full licence here: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/... 

• Music released by: Chill Out Records @ https://goo.gl/fh3rEJ & https://www.LoFi-HipHop.com 

• (C) Copyright Notice: This is FREE (Royalty Free Music) that has been publicly released by Chill Out Records - No Copyright Music (Chill Out Records LLC) for use by content creators within their own YouTube and TikTok Musical.ly videos.

 Licence: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International (CC BY-SA 4.0)  ►This video footage and music is exclusively owned by Chill Out Records LLC.   ––– ♪♫ FREE DOWNLOAD ♫♪ –––  ► Download "Remember" by KaizanBlu HERE - https://www.chilloutrecordsmusic.com/ ––– ♪♫ [CHILL OUT RECORDS] -♫♪ ––– [NO COPYRIGHT MUSIC]

Hey Twos and Threes! 

In this Final Part 3 of 3, We explore William Lane Craig's 3 Arguments specifically advancing Christian Theism. With the 1st 6 arguments setting the groundwork, now we have context for presenting a richer, fuller argument for Christ as the special revelation of that God generally revealed by Creation. For references for more sources exploring the ideas touched upon in this cast, please follow the links below. Let us know what you thought of this cast in the comments!  

- C., J & C.

 ___________________________________________________________  

Join our growing FB Community!:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/855139661721070

Listen to us via your preferred podcast platform:  https://anchor.fm/two-or-three-gathered

___________________________________________________________ 

- J's Blog: Inelijahstimes - Part 1 on General Theism: https://inelijahstimes.wordpress.com/2017/02/26/existential-questions-pt-1-a-young-boy-moving-considering-atheism-to-theism-to-christian-theism/

- Part 2 on Christian Theism: https://inelijahstimes.wordpress.com/2018/01/01/existential-questions-pt-2-moving-from-general-theism-to-christian-theism/ 

References and links: Kevin Scharp and William Lane Craig's debate at Ohio State University 2016. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KMd_eS2J7o 

The Internet Classics Archive | "The Euthyphro Dilemma" by Plato: http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/euthyfro.html

Ecumenical and Multifaith Unit, Diocese of New Westminster: Summary of Major World Religions: https://dq5pwpg1q8ru0.cloudfront.net/2020/10/29/14/36/02/1a5e5a43-c85c-4b6e-a077-de8c8811180b/EMU%20-%20A%20Summary%20of%20World%20Religions.pdf

TED Edu - The Five Major World Religions | John Bellaimey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6dCxo7t_aE 

M & M Blog and Website: https://www.facebook.com/MandM.blog/An analytic theologian and a legal philosopher blog on philosophy of religion, ethics, theology, jurisprudence and social commentary | Kiwi-Style (Good commentary from a Christian Worldview on Moral Law/Legal Philosophy) 

William Lane Craig interviewed for the Veritas Forum: "What is the significance of Jesus' Ressurection?' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNTs54TqMik 

David Rohl - Egyptologist presenting new Chronology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Rohl

Christianity from Judaism to Constantine: Crash Course World History #11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG55ErfdaeY&t=3s

Lesslie Newbigin's Book - Proper Confidence: Faith, Doubt, and Certainty in Christian Discipleship https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/273775.Proper_Confidence

The Bible Project - "What is the Bible?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ak06MSETeo4

Chris Harrison - Bible Cross References: https://www.chrisharrison.net/index.php/Visualizations/BibleViz

Michael Heiser — Refuting Polytheistic Origins regarding Israelite Monotheism | Definition of Elohim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDMjxXzCRvw

A Hidden Message | The Gospel in Genesis - KHouse - Chuck Missler https://www.khouse.org/articles/1996/44/print/

Mazzaroth - The Hebrew Zodiac https://www.blogos.org/thinkabout/mazzaroth.html

The Witness of the Stars by E. W. Bullinger (Free PDF E-Book) https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/49018(This work first educated me about the Hebrew Zodiac, and its importance in proving the Biblical Account of things)

Near Death Experience Research: Videos curated by the University of Virginia: https://med.virginia.edu/perceptual-studies/dops-media/video-near-death-experience-research/

GOSPEL BICENTENNIAL: HAS IT BEEN GOOD NEWS FOR MĀORI? - Aaryn Niuapu https://thepostcolonial.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/gospel-bicentennial-has-it-been-good-news-for-maori/

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Hey Twos and Threes!

Thanks for watching/listening. Let us know what you thought of this cast in the comments and stay tuned for parts 2 and three, released in a week and in a fortnight (respectively).

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J's Blog: Inelijahstimes - Part 1 on General Theism: https://inelijahstimes.wordpress.com/2017/02/26/existential-questions-pt-1-a-young-boy-moving-considering-atheism-to-theism-to-christian-theism/ Part 2 on Christian Theism: https://inelijahstimes.wordpress.com/2018/01/01/existential-questions-pt-2-moving-from-general-theism-to-christian-theism/

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References and links: Kevin Scharp and William Lane Craig's debate at Ohio State University 2016. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KMd_eS2J7o

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Liebnez & Samuel Clark's principles of sufficient reason. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sufficient-reason/ https://1000wordphilosophy.com/2018/03/27/leibnizs-principle-of-sufficient-reason/

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Red Pen Logic's fresh approach to “Can god make a rock so heavy...” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWZxBXfbTaM

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Oxford Handbook essay on Molinism/ https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199935314.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199935314-e-29

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Epicurius' Statement on God's Omnipotence and the Problem of Pain: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8199-is-god-willing-to-prevent-evil-but-not-able-then

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Summary of Jonathan Haidt's "6 Innate Moral Foundations:" http://www.atlas101.ca/pm/concepts/haidts-6-innate-moral-foundations/

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Dr Craig's book “The Only Wise God”. https://www.logos.com/product/62013/the-only-wise-god-the-compatibility-of-divine-foreknowledge-and-human-freedom

Hey Twos and Threes!

Thanks for watching/listening.

Let us know what you thought of this cast in the comments and stay tuned for parts 2 and three, released in a week and in a fortnight (respectively).

-

-

-

-

-

References and links:

Keving Scharp and William  Lane Craig's debate at Ohio State University 2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KMd_eS2J7o

-

Liebnez & Samuel Clark's principles of sufficient reason.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sufficient-reason/

https://1000wordphilosophy.com/2018/03/27/leibnizs-principle-of-sufficient-reason/

-

Red Pen Logic's fresh approach to “Can god make a rock so heavy...”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWZxBXfbTaM

-

Oxford Handbook essay on Molinism/

https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780199935314.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780199935314-e-29

-

Dr Craig's book “The Only Wise God”.

https://www.logos.com/product/62013/the-only-wise-god-the-compatibility-of-divine-foreknowledge-and-human-freedom