“I saw evidence that really challenged everything that I knew”

Ilan Pappe shares how he came across historical documents back in 1978 that debunked  Zionist myths and set him off on his journey to becoming an Israeli dissident, why what is going on in Gaza is a ‘genocide’ that is much worse than the Nakba of 1948, and why he thinks Zionism is near its end.

Episode Outline
00:00 Introduction
00:30 What was the Nakba?
04:23 Zionist fabrications around the Nakba
09:15 Gaza compared to 1948 Nakba
12:12 Why did you decide to study the Nakba
14:34 Meeting Palestinian academics
17:00 False assumptions I took for granted
19:07 How did you approach the documents
21:10 how I became secure in my work and my findings
21:45 being forced out of Haifa University
24:40 life in Israel as a dissident
27:30 Getting sh*t parcels in the mail
29:30 Observations on Israeli society becoming racist
32:30 The Israeli education system indoctrinating a new society
36:25 Israel's ruthlessness in Gaza now
38:30 Gaza a strategic challenge to Zionist project
40:15 What happens in Gaza now
43:30 What Israel is doing now will lead to a strategic loss for Israel
45:00 Reasons why Zionism will come to an end

UNAPOLOGETIC is hosted by Ashfaaq Carim

Recorded on the 22nd February 2024

Middle East Eye Website: https://middleeasteye.net

‘I mean from October we were saying this is ethnic cleansing and these are war crimes… If you follow the statements from Israeli leaders and the indiscriminate bombing of Gaza…. It was clear what they doing…they were eliminating Gaza, making sure that life in Gaza would never be back [to] the same way it was.’

In an extended interview, Reverend Dr Munther Isaac, the Lutheran pastor of Bethlehem, speaks about growing up under occupation, how Palestinian Christains have often been failed by the international Church, how the war in Gaza in an extension of colonialism and the world’s inaction to stop  what he says is a clear case of genocide and ethnic cleansing