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"Woke” is such a tired word. Yet there remains a cultural elite which uses the language of social justice to gain power and status, without helping the disadvantaged. What’s going on?

 

Musa al-Gharbi is an assistant professor of sociology who studies how knowledge workers have improved their cultural power by deploying the language of social justice to justify their own influence -- and to portray the losers in the knowledge economy as deserving their lot because they think or say the “wrong” things about race, gender, and sexuality.

 

Far from being a right-wing anti-woke crusader, Musa is a Black Muslim academic who explores how we think about about social phenomena. His new book is “We Have Never Been Woke: The Cultural Contradictions of a New Elite”.

 

Here, Musa and Josh wrestle with what the “Great Awokening” was really all about, how ideas are the currency of the knowledge economy, and how we can actually help the marginalised and disadvantaged. This episode is part of Permission to Think, a collaboration with the University of Technology, thanks to Professor Alan Davison.

 

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After the slaying of one of America’s highest-flying health-insurance CEOs, the tenor of many reactions from the Online Left was: “Murder is never justified, BUT…”

 

The chattering classes are now busy condemning such hot takes for seeking to “understand” a killer’s motives; for excusing the inexcusable.

 

But neither reaction will convince the growing minority of Americans who believe that something is fundamentally broken, and that violence could be morally justified to fix it. Here, Josh dares to ask… could it ever, in fact, be okay to respond to corporate malfeasance with public violence? Can we use this moment to think a bit harder about our moral code?

 

Tim Dean is the Senior Philosopher at The Ethics Centre, a non-profit that fosters moral conversations about everyday life. He has a PhD in philosophy with an expertise in the evolution of morality, he runs philosophy and ethics workshops for businesses, and he's a public philosopher and science writer whose first book is How We Became Human, about how our evolved moral minds are out of step with the modern world.

 

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How did the best satirists notice the comedic potential of “wokeness” in its earliest moments? And where does the evolution of the Left leave political satire now?

 

Andrew Doyle writes for the fictional parody characters Jonathan Pie and Titania McGrath. He invented Titania as a caricature of social-justice activists (her Twitter bio describes her as an ecosexual radical intersectionalist poet with variable pronouns) but many people believed she was real, falling for her absurdly worthy tweets.

 

Andrew has written a couple of terrific books, "Free Speech and Why It Matters" and "The New Puritans: How the Religion of Social Justice Captured the Western World".

 

Andrew and Josh sat down in London shortly before the 2024 U.S. presidential election to discuss satire, free speech, the working class, partisan politics, comedy and the future of the Left. You can also watch this interview in its pretty British glory on YouTube here.

 

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As Syria transforms, as Trump returns, as Putin prepares for victory, as China lies in wait, and as we all look towards a new year, Josh sits down with one of the smartest analysts of liberal democracy.

 

Stan Grant was CNN's Senior International Correspondent based in Abu Dhabi, Hong Kong and Beijing, before returning to Australia as International Affairs Analyst for the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

 

He is arguably Australia's most experienced global journalist and the most famous Indigenous Australian. He resigned from the national public broadcaster last year in a national firestorm about racism.

 

He and Josh discuss the future of the global order, whether Enlightenment values are up to the task, and the role of public broadcasters like the ABC.

 

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What should the role of America be? In their new book, "The Myth of American idealism: How U.S. Foreign Policy Endangers the World", Noam Chomsky and Nathan Robinson present a litany of American foreign policy missteps. 

 

Nathan is the founder of Current Affairs magazine, of which he is the editor-in-chief, and the author of Why You Should Be a Socialist. 

 

Here, Josh picks Nathan's brain... on the contrasts between Trump's populism and Bernie Sanders', the Ukraine War, Medicare-for-all, and the role of the United Nations in world affairs.

 

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What happens to politicians when they're openly bribed -- *ahem*, sorry, "assisted" -- by a hugely powerful corporation? The saga of how Qantas peddles influence, wins subsidies, escapes regulation, and secures Australian government protection by showering politicians with first-class upgrades and secret airport club memberships is, frankly, bonkers.

The legendary financial journalist Joe Aston, formerly a political staffer and Qantas communications man himself, spills the beans in his explosive new book, "The Chairman's Lounge: The inside story of how Qantas sold us out". It's a universal parable about what happens to capitalism and democracy when any one company gets too powerful... and its political favours too luxurious to resist.

 

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As Israel and Hezbollah cautiously observe a ceasefire, the prospect of a Palestinian state feels as remote as ever. But there are people working tirelessly to bring one about, impeded by radicals on both sides who see this as a war between Goodies and Baddies.

 

Omar Dajani is one of the visionaries. As a Palestinian-American professor, he and Josh disagree about much regarding the culpability and dysfunction of Gaza's misery. Omar was a negotiator for the Palestine Liberation Organization and attended the Camp David Summit with President Clinton in 2000.

 

But he now argues for a new type of two-state solution that would enable Israelis and Palestinians to live and work on both sides of the 1967 Green Line. As the co-chair of the non-profit A Land for All, he wants to shift our thinking from a model of separation to one of power sharing.

 

In this episode, Josh has a frank and heartfelt conversation with a senior Palestinian thinker that offers a glimpse of a better future.

 

This episode was recorded prior to the recent Lebanon ceasefire.

 

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David Walliams is one of the most successful comedians in the world. On "Little Britain", his smash hit BBC sketch comedy show, he created characters whose catchphrases have become part of the culture: "I'm a lady", "Computer says No", and so many more. 

 

David did ten seasons as a judge with Simon Cowell on Britain's Got Talent, and has written 43 children's books that have sold over 60 million copies. 

 

Josh and David recently did a six-week, fifteen-show tour of Australia and New Zealand, where Josh interviewed him in front of tens of thousands fans. Before the final show in Perth, David sat down for an uncomfortable conversation about offending people, dressing up as a woman, and how he and Matt Lucas created some of the most memorable characters of 21st century television.

 

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This is the most uncomfortable conversation Josh has ever recorded. He used to work for Alan Jones, the most powerful broadcaster in Australia. Now, he's been arrested on sexual assault allegations. (Alan, that is. Not Josh. Phew)

Sexual predation. Political power. Investigative journalism. Innocence until proven guilty. Josh has never spoken publicly about his own experiences while working with Alan Jones. Until now. 

 

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Why do some civilisations enlighten while others languish? Why do some conquer, and others collapse? Was the British Empire a bloody stain... or, on balance, a force for modernity? 

 

Niall is one of Britain's most prolific and influential historians. His seventeen books, including the groundbreaking tomes Civilisation and Empire, define the modern historical canon. 

 

Niall has become associated with heterodox concerns about wokeness and Western decline. But Josh wanted to probe deeper: How should we think about Ukraine, Gaza, populism and the West, in light of what we know about what makes human societies thrive?

 

Josh and Niall sat down in Westminster, London, on the afternoon of the 2024 American presidential election -- before the result was known. 

 

This episode is available in full on the Uncomfortable Conversations YouTube channel as well as for premium subscribers at  https://uncomfortableconversations.substack.com/subscribe

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