Unfiltered: Real Church Planting Conversations

The country of Togo, Africa, is known as the birthplace of voodoo and a place marked by slave trade. JJ Alderman, his wife, Melissa, and their three daughters live in Togo as Converge global workers, planting churches. JJ talks about what it looks like to plant churches in another country, and how God is moving in Togo.

0:21 Lee introduces special guest, JJ Alderman.

0:30 JJ explains where he and his family live.

0:40 Lee asks JJ to tell his story of how he came to live in Togo.

0:50 JJ tells of his connection to Togo and why he chose that area of the world to tell people about Jesus.

0:55 Danny asks JJ what church planting looks like in Togo and if JJ himself is the lead pastor.

1:29 JJ explains that a leader originally from Togo was the pastor at the first church they planted.

1:48 Danny states that usually how people think of missionaries are as the people leading and pastoring a church, then handing over the pastor duties to someone local after a few years.

2:06 JJ speaks to the importance of national leaders being the best fit to reach the local people with the gospel, especially within tribes in the area where he lives. He is more of a coach to national leaders.

2:40 Lee recalls visiting the Aldermans in Togo and seeing the incredible things happening there for the advancement of God’s kingdom.

3:00 Lee asks JJ to speak to how spiritual warfare has influenced church planting and how JJ coaches planters.

3:14 JJ explains how the place where he lives, most people believe things happen due to spiritual reasons, rather than physical reasons. The West has a hard time understanding that cultural difference.

3:46 JJ confirms that spiritual warfare is real, and it transcends cultures. He sees the same trends in church planting in the United States when it comes to Satan trying to push back the work God is doing.

4:25 Lee asks JJ what the biggest challenges to church planting are in Togo right now.

4:34 According to JJ, most people who come to Christ in Togo do so in a church service. Many have never heard the gospel message before. JJ and his team try to equip new believers right from the start how to share the gospel with others.

5:33 JJ talks about the importance of equipping the church to look forward with a vision of planting more churches right from the start and how that’s done.

6:16 Danny asks if the stakes are high within their community for those individuals who say yes to Jesus.

6:35 JJ tells a story about six young girls who are mentored by a Converge global worker and how the group multiplied by bringing friends to Christ. One of those girls stood up to a teacher who was mocking Jesus, the church, and believers.

7:33 Lee asks how a US church planter can build a church with a global perspective of missions.

8:18 JJ suggests we must continue to learn because the world changes so quickly. 

8:51 Lee asks JJ what kind of person he’s looking for to join the efforts in Togo as a global worker.

9:37 JJ speaks to some of the characteristics they’re looking for in people who work well on their team.

10:00 JJ also explains that serving in missions can be just a small portion of their life when a worker looks at the big picture of their entire life.

10:51 Lee asks JJ where he sees the ministry in Togo and Benin going in the next five years.

11:03 JJ speaks to the rapid multiplication of churches he’s been experiencing in the last couple of years and how they hope to have 100 total churches planted in the next three years.

11:39 Lee asks JJ how he’s scaling and building a system for expanding ministry.

12:00 Investing time in leaders is how Togo is seeing church planting growth.

12:38 JJ shares a story of a young man who often shares his faith and how he’s part of a chain of males who are supporting one another and sharing the gospel with others.

13:39 Lee asks JJ to give a little more detail on the different components of his ministry.

14:04 JJ talks about each of the five different projects and areas of service within the ministry in Togo: two projects of church planting, a camp called Togo Palms, a deaf ministry, and vocational training.

16:54 Lee thanks JJ for the work he’s doing in Togo, Africa.

Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee welcome guest, Paul Turner. Paul is the Coaching Director for Orchard NEO, an organization passionate about planting churches in Northeast Ohio and raising up church planters to spread the gospel throughout the area.

0:24 Lee introduces special guest, Paul Turner.

0:44 Paul introduces himself and explains his role at Orchard NEO.

1:19 Danny asks Paul to clear up any confusion of Orchard NEO being connected to another church planting organization. 

1:30 Paul explains that Orchard NEO is a regional church planting organization, funded by Christ Community Chapel. He also shares how they got their name.

2:04 Lee asks Paul what his passion is for church planters, through his role as Coaching Director.

2:14 Paul explains that he, himself, once planted a church. But the church didn’t last long, so after that, he began to think about what he wished he had when he was attempting to plant a church.

3:13 Danny asks Paul to talk about the connection between coaching and having resources, when planting a church.

3:54 Paul shares that having a ministry fully funded doesn’t mean a whole lot if the quality of the ministry suffers. Resources are necessary, but so is quality ministry.

4:53 Lee asks Paul what kind of candidates they are looking for in Northeast Ohio, to be successful church planters.

5:25 Paul explains the population landscape of the area, including three major cities.

5:56 Paul talks about what the religious backdrop of the area is, and how it affects the ability to plant churches.

7:15 Paul shares what Orchard NEO looks for in the men that should be planting churches in Northeast Ohio.

8:10 Expanding on what kind of church planters he’s looking for, Paul uses an analogy for those who feel the call to plant should be like a batter swinging for the fence.

8:44 Lee likes the imagery Paul uses when talking about church planting.

9:04 Lee asks Paul to speak about his experience coaching church planters who feel called to an urban setting.

9:33 Paul explains what planting in an urban setting can be like, when dealing with people’s needs due to not just poverty, but also trust issues. In his experience, once people are convinced someone is there to give, they will finally trust. But that can be a long process. It can take years to gain trust in an urban community.

11:27 Paul shares that those planting in an urban area need financial support from people who understand how long the church planting process could be. Growth will be slow, but loyalty happens.

12:23 Danny asks if someone from another area coming to Northeast Ohio to plant a church can be successful.

12:54 Paul welcomes people who aren’t native to the area, because they can see the community with fresh eyes. It can be a disadvantage to learn the culture and area, but it’s not impossible. Loving local people on their terms is more important than where the planter comes from.

14:03 Lee asks Paul what he would say to a church planter who is on the fence about attending an assessment center.

14:25 Paul answers that he thinks having someone affirm your strengths is important to sort out a calling.

15:33 Paul praises Converge’s church planting assessment process and the focus on the mission of finding church planters who have been called by God to do so.

16:17 Lee thanks Paul for sharing his story and passion for Northeast Ohio.

An Unfiltered podcast listener has asked, “What should a church planter focus on three months after a church launch?” In this episode, Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee discuss a few things a church planter should focus on once after launch as they get into a ministry rhythm.

0:22 Lee shares that this episode’s topic came from a listener’s question and encourages all listeners to email their questions to Converge. 

0:54 Lee introduces the episode subject, which is what a church planter should focus on when they are around three-months past their launch service.

1:30 Danny advises that church planters should be focusing on meeting one-on-one with new people. It’s important to balance pastoral duties with taking the time to get to know new people.

2:28 Lee stresses a church planter’s ability to relate to others and bring them in is an important factor at the beginning of the life of a church.

2:57 Budgeting you time is an important priority, according to Lee.

3:14 Another area to focus on three-months post launch is getting people connected within the new church.

4:02 Danny adds that the people that first come to a new church probably do so because they have a connection with the church planter.

4:45 Connecting new people to other people within the church is beneficial, and it’s usually done through volunteering in the church. Danny advises to make space for new people to serve or create new relationships.

5:54 Danny maps out the areas a church planter should be spending their focus, three months after launch: meeting new people, maintaining connections, and finding leaders.

6:43 Lee agrees that finding people and plugging them into leadership positions is critical to church impact but should be nurtured in a slow and natural way.

7:50 Danny emphasizes that three months after a church’s grand opening isn’t the time for church planters to take a step back.

8:19 A grand opening isn’t a one-time service event. It continues for a few months.

9:07 A few months in might be a good time to begin gathering those who are first-time visitors to share what your church is about.

9:46 Lee shares the importance of going beyond just meeting new people and having a next step for them to follow to get them connected.

10:12 Danny shares some ideas of how to gather new people together with the church planter.

11:30 Lee reminds listeners to not forget about the importance of still investing time with the launch team.

11:50 Having fun is still important three months into a new church, according to Lee.

12:23 Lee reminds listeners to email in any questions they may have regarding church planting.

A high priority at Converge is to provide church planters with an excellent level of coaching. Having someone who has planted a church walk along side someone learning the ropes is a big factor in a successful church plant. Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee discuss coaching, the value of it, how it’s more than just mentoring and what makes a good coach.

0:18 Lee introduces the conversation topic, which is coaching church planters.

0:58 Danny adds that Converge puts a strong emphasis on coaching church planters past just their first couple of years of planting.

1:46 Lee explains how Converge has taken coaching to a higher level within the mission of planting churches.

2:21 Lee asks Danny what he has seen with church planters that have coaches versus those who don’t.

2:29 Danny explains RevCoach, an online coaching system that helps both the coach and the coachee throughout their process together. 

3:00 Danny talks about the difference between a mentor and a coach.

3:31 Danny speaks to the fact that the coaches and church planters who do coaching correctly have great success.

4:38 Lee asks Danny what coaching has meant to him as a planter and pastor.

4:43 Danny says having a coach asking him lots of questions helped him clarify issues and problems.

6:00 Danny asks Lee to describe some successful and less-than-successful coaching he has received throughout his life and ministry.

6:13 Lee is a big believer in always having a coach and the importance those relationships have played in his life.

7:01 Lee emphasizes that a coach should bring out the best in a coachee, not trying to get them to do things the way that has worked for themselves. Coaching should be helping someone become all they can be in God; not molding someone in a forceful way.

7:52 Like in athletics, the “stars” don’t become the best coaches. Danny says coaching church planters is similar. 

9:08 Danny shares that he’s doing less coaching, because he tends to want to share his personal experiences and that’s not always what church planters need.

9:41 Danny states his passion for good coaching and creating it within Converge.

10:07 Lee asks Danny how a church planter should find a coach if they are beginning to realize how coaching could help them. How do you find the right coach and how do you ask?

10:30 Danny advises that if a church planter finds someone they may want as a coach, to ask around to get some opinions on their coaching.

11:30 Danny suggests doing a trial run for a few months with a coach.

11:51 Lee advises for someone to be persistent when looking for a coach, and it may cost money.

12:25 Lee shares that if someone asks him to be their coach, he wants specifics of what they’re looking for.

13:04 Lee feels a good coach will recognize their own personal strengths and weaknesses and the importance of knowing when they may not be the best coach in a certain area.

13:18 Lee encourages listeners to find a coach if they feel they need one.

If you have a vision as a pastor to make church multiplication a priority, it’s best to begin budgeting from the start of your church plant. Whether that’s to launch another church or become multi-campus, it’s a challenge to budget for it. Even though setting aside money in the budget to multiply can be difficult, it can be done. Danny Parmelee asks Lee Stephenson how he has done it and what advice he has for pastors looking to do the same.

0:19 Danny introduces the episode’s topic, which is including church multiplication into the church’s budget.

0:53 Danny asks Lee how he practically budgeted for church multiplication.

1:09 Lee admits intentionally budgeting for multiplication is difficult. With one church he planted, they started right away with 2% of the budget going to multiplication. The second time he planted, he increased the percentage.

2:22 Danny asks Lee the specifics of how the budgeted money was tracked.

3:10 Lee explains what budgeting that amount looked like and what his next budgeting goal is for a multiplication initiative.

3:58 Danny inquires how Lee’s church determines who qualifies for financial help in ministry.

4:29 Lee shares what they do if someone outside their church is asking for church planting financial help versus someone from within the church doing the work of multiplication.

5:13 Lee shares that his church launched another congregation in October.

5:52 Danny asks Lee if he lets the congregation know part of the budget goes towards multiplication.

6:17 Lee addresses how he speaks about multiplication, whether it’s through meetings, one-on-one conversations, or commissionings.

7:46 Danny wonders if the people in Lee’s church can give directly to the multiplication fund or if it’s all 100% through general giving. 

8:15 Danny asks Lee to give church planters advice when it comes to budgeting for multiplication.

8:41 Lee compares waiting to start a multiplication budget to waiting to start a family until you can afford it. If you wait until you can afford it, it’s never going to happen.

9:07 Lee speaks to the importance of sharing a vision of multiplication with key leaders and staff.

9:35 Danny shares that it can be easy for a church planter to lose the vision of multiplication as they get into the day-to-day of leading a church.

10:10 Lee emphasizes that pastors need to be intentional in budgeting for this important vision.

11:05 Danny says it seems counterintuitive that churches that give away money and resources grow at a faster rate than those who do not.

11:17 Lee encourages church planters and pastors to be intentional to make a difference with more healthy churches.

Evaluation can be a powerful tool to keep your church’s ministry on track. But what should you and your staff or launch team be evaluating? Sunday services, special outreach events, worship, different areas of ministry, and staff performance are just a few. Join Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee as they talk about creating a culture of evaluation in your church.

0:29 Lee introduces the subject of evaluation.

0:37 Danny mentions that evaluating different areas from the very start can be beneficial to church planters.

1:04 Danny talks about creating a culture of evaluation and the reason it’s important.

2:03 Lee asks Danny how he evaluated weekend services as a church planter.

2:18 Danny recalls having scripted questions to keep service evaluations on track and to look at both the positive and negative sides of how a church service went.

4:12 Lee recalls evaluating Sunday services on Mondays as a church planter. He shares the five questions they would address as a staff every week. Lee also shares what he asked to get honest feedback from staff on his sermon.

5:59 Danny talks about sermon evaluation and gives advice on how to do that.

7:02 Lee speaks to the importance of creating a culture of evaluation right at the beginning of a church plant.

7:38 Danny shares his thoughts on evaluating events the church holds.

8:40 Lee asks Danny how he handled staff evaluations when it came to job performance.

9:05 Admittedly, Danny wasn’t super-consistent when it came to doing staff evaluations at regular time intervals. 

10:39 Danny warns that having an inconsistent staff evaluation calendar might arouse suspicion from staff.

11:08 Lee shares how he had staff fill out less-formal form once a month to check in and report how they were doing emotionally, spiritually, and physically. 

12:30 Lee talks about what yearly staff evaluations looked like.

13:30 Lee reiterates how helpful the less-formal monthly questionnaire helped with staff and leadership evaluation.

13:43 Danny mentions a software platform that is helpful with evaluations and let’s listeners know how they can acquire it for free.

14:08 Lee urges pastor to continue evaluate all aspects of their ministry.

How a lead pastor and the worship pastor work together has an effect on Sunday services. What should the relationship between these two roles look like? How do you work together to ensure attendees are having a meaningful Sunday worship experience? 

0:20 Lee Stephenson introduces the episode topic that is relevant to church planters, lead pastors, and worship pastors.

0:40 Lee asks Danny Parmelee when he officially had a worship pastor when he was a church planter.

0:57 Danny discusses who his first worship leader was at his church plant and what their relationship looked like since they were college friends first.

2:48 Lee asks how communication with a worship leader worked when he wasn’t a full-time staff and was volunteering his time while working another job.

3:05 Danny speaks to the challenge of not only working with someone who was volunteering their time, but also the challenge of not having any sort of church office to meet together.

4:04 Having simple services at the beginning helped keep the worship aspect simple, according to Danny. But as his church grew, specific meetings to discuss worship elements of the services were needed.

4:45 Lee asks Danny how much freedom he gave to the worship leader when it came to service development.

5:06 Danny feels he gave his worship leader freedom to choose how the worship portion of a service would look. 

5:41 Danny remembers for special services, such as Easter or Good Friday, he would ask his worship leader, Michael, to do something special and Michael would blow it out of the water.

6:05 Danny trusted his worship leader to make good song choices but would remind him at times to use songs that were familiar worship songs on the radio.

6:38 Danny knows worship leaders like to do something new and unique to avoid repetition, but also knows the importance of using familiar songs that people can sing along to during services.

7:25 Danny asks Lee about his experience in working with worship pastors and his experience with that relationship.

7:33 Lee remembers meeting with his worship leader about once a month when they were a new church plant. And having limited time during a short service also meant there was no time to be very innovative.

8:19 Lee speaks to the importance of a pastor having a good relationship with a staff worship pastor. If there isn’t unity between those two main people, it can be seen up on the stage.

8:50 Every Tuesday afternoon, Lee would meet with the worship pastor to not only review upcoming services, but to pray together and to relationally get on the same page.

9:32 Currently Lee communicates mostly through email with his current worship pastor, Joel, who is more behind the scenes.

9:50 With the launch of another congregation, Lee knows that the demands of services are going to be a little different and the service structure is more Joel’s responsibility.

10:35 Lee varies how his church participates in communion, so he and Joel plan for that together.

11:02 Danny reiterates the importance of a pastor and worship leaders talking about service transitions.

11:30 Danny agrees with Lee that the more services a church adds, the more complex the planning of the worship aspect and flow of service becomes. 

12:04 Lee stresses the importance of planning to create an above average service and the priority a lead pastor should place on collaborating effectively with the worship pastor.

13:16 Danny adds that a worship leader should have a pastoral heart who develop other leaders within the worship team.

14:13 Lee advises that the only way to know if a worship leader has a heart of a worshipper themselves is to spend time with them.

14:23 Lee thanks listeners for tuning in to the topic on the lead pastor and worship pastor’s relationship.

In this episode, Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee discuss planning out a preaching calendar. They share practical ways they plan their sermon topics and give insight into how they navigate their preaching calendar.

0:19 Lee introduces the topic of the episode – thinking through your preaching calendar. He asks Danny what his rhythm is when it comes to planning the timing of sermon series.

0:50 Danny shares how he preached expository through books of the Bible when he first planted his church. 

2:56 As time went by, Danny’s preaching schedule fell into a rhythm that he was able to maintain as his church grew. His church has the rhythm of following the schedule of a school year, September through June.

3:39 Lee confirms that Danny would plan the kick-off of a new upcoming sermon series in the summertime, based on the school calendar.

3:45 Danny talks about how his sermons were tied to small group teaching and that printed materials had to be created for that.

4:37 Lee asks Danny if he would literally take an entire school year to preach through one book of the Bible.

4:46 Danny confirms that yes, that was the case and explains how the sermon schedule would work when shorter books of the Bible were preached.

5:36 Danny asks Lee about how he does his sermon planning and navigates a preaching calendar.

5:47 One year out is how Lee likes to plan. He also mentions that he takes a week in the summer to plan out his preaching calendar. And he reiterates that each community has its own rhythm.

7:20 Danny asks Lee to expand on what his process is when he takes a week to plan out upcoming sermon series.

7:59 Lee gives details on how he collaborates with his creative team.

9:30 Lee explains how he codes sermons at different levels – A, B, and C, what those levels mean, and the reason he does it.

10:48 Danny asks Lee if he is flexible in his planned preaching calendar, or if it’s more of a rigid process.

11:24 Lee explains how he adds in margin to the sermon series schedule and how baptism Sundays play into the schedule’s flexibility.

12:41 Danny asks Lee for his thoughts on using other church’s resources when it comes to replicating their sermon series.

13:17 Using other church’s resources occasionally may be a good idea for church planters, according to Lee. But he advises pastors to put their own spin on it for the community they serves. Exact replication may not translate great from one area of the country to another.

15:20 Lee stresses the importance on thinking through sermon planning and creating the preaching calendar, advising to have fun, leave margin, and enjoy the process.

15:59 Danny agrees that using another church’s sermon resources should be done in moderation.

16:21 Lee thanks listeners for tuning into the podcast episode.

Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee talk about how the leadership of a church planter will naturally change. Leadership at the beginning of planting looks very different than when the church is a few years old.

0:22 Lee introduces the topic of discussion: unique changes that take place as a leader.

0:48 Danny says he will share his experiences of learning from his mistakes.

1:16 Danny advises for new church planters to always say yes, and shares his reason for that strategy.

2:15 Danny shares when the “always say yes” strategy should shift to begin saying no.

2:52 Empowerment plays a role in leadership. Danny speaks about how much control church planters should have for every decision in the beginning.

5:01 Danny shares a memory of what his church planting coach said that allowed Danny to micromanage to protect the vision of his church plant.

6:08 Lee talks about guarding himself from becoming more cynical in his pastoral leadership over time.

6:42 Danny asks for clarification on the use of the word cynical.

6:49 Lee clarifies how cynicism can happen when a church planter wants total control for a long time.

7:14 This question is hard for Danny to answer, so he asks Lee about his experience with cynicism in planting multiple churches.

7:53 Danny asks Lee if planting a second time helped avoid the mistakes he may have run into when planting the first time.

8:32 Lee speaks to the difference of planting two churches at two different times in his life.

9:32 Lee talks about how different it was to plant a church the second time when he was ten years older than the first time. Maturity, energy, responsibilities, and wisdom all played a role the second time around.

10:59 Danny wonders is being new to church planting and having some naivety fuels ingenuity.

12:06 As a coach, Danny talks about the fine line of having the experience of planting a church. He wants to give lots of advice, but he also knows the new church planters he coaches need to be allowed to do things their own way to push the envelope.

13:03 Lee speaks to church planting coaches and advised them to let new church planters be innovative.

14:25 Lee shares when he began to make time in his schedule for creativity.

14:50 Danny talks about the fear of failure and how that fear can grow with success.

16:04 Danny wonders if current church planters just might be trying the very thing that will reshape what church looks like for the next generation.

16:49 Lee states his excitement to see how the current creativity might affect the church long term. 

Episode 89 // Should Churches Hire Remote Staff?

Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee discuss the pros and cons of church planters hiring remote people for certain tasks and projects. What might it look like to hire someone who never attends your church?

0:21 Lee asks Danny the rhetorical question, “Is it okay to hire someone who may life in a different city?”

1:15 Danny shares about a book that introduced him to the idea of hiring freelancers for certain aspects of church planting tasks and the advantages of hiring overseas freelancers.

3:59 Fair wages are important when hiring overseas freelancers. Danny talks about the website he has had success with when it comes to hiring freelance workers.

6:48 Lee asks Danny if there are any disadvantages when hiring freelancers to do marketing work for a church.

7:17 Danny speaks to the fact that a freelancer who doesn’t know you may not get it right the first time. Freelancing works well when the contracted person knows the brand and voice of the church planter’s church. 

8:21 Danny then recollects a time when working with a freelancer did not work at all.

9:15 Lee talks about challenges one may have when working with a person from another country. And the care that must be taken when using a remote bookkeeper.

10:15 There are certain admin tasks that are good for contracting out to a freelancer. Danny then talks about the importance of admin assistants really knowing the church planter because they tend to become the “face” of the office tasks when interacting with others. 

12:07 Danny also talks about his current experience with having a remote admin working with him.

12:37 Lee agrees with the importance of having an assistant that really knows the church planter.

13:02 Lee asks Danny about the challenges of having a remote team.

13:41 Knowing yourself really well as a church planter and as a leader is very important when it comes to remote work, according to Danny.

14:55 Danny talks about his “management by objective” style.

15:59 Lee asks Danny how his staff meetings worked with a remote staff.

16:10 Danny talks about the slow growth the first couple of years of his church plant.

17:10 Lee touches on the culture a church planter may be trying to develop when dealing with remote positions.

17:52 Danny wonders if and when the church will catch up with culture’s new view on set office hours within an organization.

18:32 Lee echos Danny that he will be watching to see if the church adapts to new office hour trends.